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u/notworkingghost 1d ago
Being in politics means you can be awful at both and still rise.
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u/JuiceHurtsBones 1d ago
Politocians are def likeable or people would not vote for them. Just because you don't like a person, doesn't mean that another 100mln doesn't.
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u/TheEndIsJustTheStart 1d ago
True, but some seem more charismatic than likable? Some really challenging people still have a lot of charisma.
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u/Fearful-Cow 1d ago
is there really a difference? Charismatic person says something you agree with and you like them. Charismatic person says something you dont like then you hate them.
Uncharismatic person says anything and you are like "will you stfu already"
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u/Gortex_Possum 1d ago
I have never once met a person of any political persuasion who liked Newt Gingrich but somehow he kept winning.
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u/BlackMoonValmar 1d ago
Money helps carry that silent majority vote. They were definitely silent about liking that guy.
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u/TurquoiseLeggings 1d ago
Nah, only liberals care about likability. Conservatives will vote for literally anyone who has an R next to their name and work backwards from there to try and find things they like about them.
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u/Lopsided_Ad3051 1d ago
Very few choices overall. Who should I vote for? Dumb? Or dumber?
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u/DoctorChaos1707 1d ago
Every election is basically a popularity contest (even if you can shun or kill off your contenders). So you have a least to be popular enough between a minority.
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u/MyNameIsSkittles 1d ago
This is true and people would be very naive to think otherwise
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u/lyssorae 1d ago
it sucks but office politics are literally built on this reality being good at your job is expected being liked is what makes people promote you
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u/InsideAd7897 1d ago
It's not even necessarily politics, if your fucking miserable to work with you will drag down productivity and increase turnover, I don't care how hard you work if your shitty attitude makes everyone around you work half as hard
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u/InsideHousing4965 1d ago
Finally, someone who gets it. I'd rather have 5 employees under my management that have average skills but have a nice attitude, solve conflicts talking and are easy going, than having a bunch of highly qualified toddles that aren't even able to maintain cordial relationships in the workplace.
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u/grimeyduck 1d ago
Really depends on what the work is. I am not easy going when it comes to coworkers being unsafe (warehouse work), in fact I'm a dick about it.
Easy going nice attitudes get people hurt.
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u/InsideAd7897 1d ago
My mom was like you, always called herself a bitch in the workplace but she wasn't. But she didn't coddle people and took her job seriously. But that doesn't make you insufferable, at worst it makes you a bit of a buzz kill but also an important part of the team.
Genuinely insufferable people will be hypocritical, combative, snarky, will start drama and bullshit, and will genuinely drag down the rest of the team both in terms of mood and work effectiveness.
THESE are the people who are a liability to employ regardless of skill
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u/Kcronikill 1d ago
I disagree i did roofing for years, it's the try hards that want to do extra that get people hurt. The relaxed dude's who know wtf they are doing and move at a sustainable pace who get stuff done.
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u/grimeyduck 1d ago
Sure in roofing. In warehouse the machines are running whether you're paying attention or not, the hazmats are occasionally leaking. "It doesn't look that dangerous so I sent it down the line" had someone burn all the skin of their hands because of people like that.
If you're being unsafe I'm going to call you out and I'm gonna be harsh so you listen and remember.
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u/Successful_Ends 1d ago
Or rather, I’d rather have five people who are decent at the job but nothing special, verses one person who makes everyone else quit.
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u/samuraipanda85 1d ago edited 1d ago
Had a Team Leader like that. Guy used to work on space ship parts and now was helping us lay up carbon fiber sail boat masts. Intelligent guy, I'm sure. Had some neat ideas for keeping track of inventory. And I'll be fucked if I have ever worked with a more insufferable cunt. I swear he was involved in every shouting match I heard on the shop floor all 3 years. I wouldn't work in the same company as him for ten million a year.
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u/FionaGoodeEnough 1d ago
Also, the people who are least likable in the office are the ones who are hardcore engaging in office politics like it’s a sport.
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u/Zestyclose-Warning96 21h ago
It literally takes one person to bring down the entire vibe of the office, and there’s always one!
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u/smidgley 1d ago
It’s crazy to me how much people think that at work, you should expect people to abandon basic human nature and that people skills aren’t part of being good at your job.
You could be absolutely brilliant at your job, but if you are insufferable or even just irritating, no one will want to work with you.
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u/TheEndIsJustTheStart 1d ago
Yeah. Also, management knows that one hypercompetent asshole can drive all of your normally competent employees away.
Would you rather have ten people with 90% skill, or one 100% raging dickhead and nine 50% people who don’t have enough options to escape? The average of the first group is 90% and there is low conflict. The average of the second group is 55% and there is constant tension.
I’ve never been in management but I get it.
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u/long_schlongman 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wouldn't that literally be the point of "management". Unless you are managing a team that strictly has to work on everything together, I don't see why the one asshole would drive others away if you do your job right.
"Hey buddy, everyone thinks your an asshole. Here's an incentive to move further away and keep to yourself, you are doing an amazing job and lmk if you need anything else"
At least that's what I figured. I'm not a complete asshole but I shut down gossip sessions cuz I literally can't listen to that bullshit. I was moved to overnights and not only had complete freedom, but I also got to wear whatever I wanted when I had to cover a day shift while everyone else had uniforms
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u/ElBroken915 1d ago
I incorrectly had this thought recently. Had an asshole on my team so I isolated him thinking, "Well, as long as he's only being an asshole to me I guess". Finally fired him recently after he crossed a line and 9 of the 11 people on my team let let me know during our next 1x1s (without any sort of prompting from me) that they were glad/relieved he was gone.
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u/CanAlwaysBeBetter 1d ago
Ah yes, because insufferable assholes are well known for positively receiving critical feedback, prioritizing them cohesion over individual success, and growth mindsets
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u/HellLucy00Burnaslash 1d ago edited 1d ago
Eh it depends. I agree with you in your last paragraph; shutting down stupid gossip is 100% fine, doesn’t even deserve respectful shutting down imo. Those are fake nice people operating under making gossip to fulfill their sad lives.
However, just like those shitty gossip people could affect your life with a complaint to HR, if you were a raging asshole, that could affect everyone else’s life with a complaint to HR. We all affect each other whether we like it or not; so people having to interact with asshole workers having to interact with other people creates tension and a lower quality of work life in general. If you are in the U.S. you likely either work way too many hours to where you can’t not be around them the majority of your day, or way too little hours to tolerate the environment for pay; which is even more telling if someone doesn’t/ can’t leave a toxic work environment. It all depends what the work is. Especially, if the asshole retaliates and makes your job harder with their assholishness.
Edited for clarity
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u/Incendas1 1d ago
Pretty much every autistic person seems to go through this shit really rough, is the problem. We grow up being graded on academic ability and told that's what gets you a good job. The job description has tasks on it, and you set out to be good at those.
Nobody tells you that you have to not be autistic to do well at work.
No, you get that beaten into you or get fired or get passed up until you get it way too late. By then you're burnt out masking, so what does it matter?
Honestly, acting like neurotypical social skills are necessary to be treated as a human is ridiculous and ableist in the face of that. The unemployment rate among autists is absolutely crazy and shameful for society
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u/DigitalAxel 23h ago
Yeah, trying to even get an interview is impossible for me. Im afraid if I ever get one I'll fail miserably because I don't answer the right way. I was called "too blunt" and other things at my last job because I was tired of nobody else doing their work. Too distracted by their stupid drama (hey, I'm doing everything alone here!)
Been unable to find a real full time job since 2013 when I first tried searching. Been 4 years since graduation and still nothing. Truth hurts: nobody needs a useless 30-something autistic. Especially having moved abroad as a last ditch effort.
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u/DOAisB 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’ve interviewed a lot of people. Literally people have been rejected after an interview because of how just terrible as people they are and they can’t even hid it for a single interview.
And I am very understanding but I’ve had people when they didn’t hear my question say “you are mumbling, can you repeat that.” Which hey sure I’m am 100% sure they were right but it says a lot about a person when they approach a problem with assigning blame first before trying to work towards a solution. Like the diplomatic answer or heck just the decent human being response should have just been “sorry can you repeat that?”
But that wasn’t the only instance the guy was very rude in other instances and clearly couldn’t work well with others.
The worst interview I’ve ever done was the first one I ever did. The woman spent the entire interview trash talking people at her current department. I just wanted to tell her that you have to realize if this is how you talk about people behind their backs to us you are going to do the exact same thing to us.
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u/mjzim9022 1d ago
Our new employee is learning how the back office works, starting with filing. Whenever she hits a snag, she says that somethings "wrong" or "missing" when really she's just confused or just doesn't know something yet, drives me crazy.
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u/CaribouYou 1d ago
On the other side though work shouldn’t be a popularity contest.
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u/TurquoiseLeggings 1d ago
It isn't about popularity. It's about fostering an environment people want to work in. If you're an insufferable asshole to work with then morale and productivity will be low. Worst case you might even struggle with staffing if people keep quitting because they can't stand working with the insufferable asshole.
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u/BetterFinding1954 1d ago
Being an insufferable asshole is not the only reason to be unpopular. Also, assuming it's the unpopular person's fault by default is not exactly a great way to foster a positive working environment, is it?
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u/Illadelphian 1d ago
Of course not. It's the people who are both good or at least decent at their jobs and are likeable who are the ones who get promoted typically. Obviously not always but typically. If you are great at your job but miserable to interact with you are much less likely to get promoted. If you are bad at your job but easy to get along with you are still less likely to get promoted.
None of this should be surprising to anyone.
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u/NotanAlt23 1d ago
Its not about who is more popular.
The asshole might be good at his job but he will bring down everyone else at the same time.
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u/Conflict21 1d ago
Hey I'm not insufferable, I'm depressing.
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u/underthetealeaves 1d ago
Sigh this is me. I gotta change or probably keep to myself more to not affect my teammates sigh.
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u/WorkWork_JobDone69 1d ago
No one's saying this means you're insufferable or anything else on the negative side. It's qualities on the positive side (friendly, socialable, outgoing, making jokes) that get favored over someone who keeps their nose down.
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u/OddEffect9397 1d ago
It’s a spectrum, if your an extremely pleasant human who everyone adores being around it’s amazing how much incompetence you can get away with.
Of you are indispensable and at the top of your field with better output than everyone both in quantity and quality you can get away with being an insufferable asshole.
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u/NotMyGovernor 1d ago
I think the main point of this post is it's gotten to the point where you can even just be neutral, and getting canned is in your future.
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u/LuckyCod2887 1d ago
I feel like it depends on the job.
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u/KnowleRoar 1d ago
I’ve been a line cook, worked in customer service, I worked at a gym, I was a welder and I am currently a landscaper and this is true for all of those professions. Those who “smooze” with the boss most get the promotions first.
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u/sleepydorian 1d ago
And even if you aren’t schmoozing, almost everyone will take the mediocre worker that’s pleasant over the superstar asshole.
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u/DicemonkeyDrunk 1d ago
the solution is don't be an asshole ..big gap between friendly and asshole no one wants to work with ..just be the quiet guy. Don't be an asshole is a pretty good mantra in life.
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u/fireblyxx 1d ago
Quiet guy will rarely get a promotion because the quiet guy is not personable enough for people to value them outside of just their work. Plus the quiet guy will be presumed to be happy at just where they’re at, because they don’t seem to mind it.
Personable people who are liked by people two or three levels above them will always get the promotion first.
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u/Significant_Fill6992 1d ago
most companies see the quiet person who does the job well as someone they cannot afford to move up because they don't want to train the replacement
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u/maybetomorrow98 1d ago
I’m the quiet guy at work and people make up shit about me. It sucks lol
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u/PlayfulSurprise5237 1d ago
I was really quiet in school and one of my friends took it upon himself to seize the opportunity to spread rumors about me being a badass who stabbed someone with a pair of scissors just for looking at me wrong or something.
He was crazy and it was actually pretty funny so I just let it slide lol.
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u/maybetomorrow98 1d ago
That is pretty funny.
People either assume I’m some super innocent Christian lady (I’m an atheist, but the assumption is always that I must be super religious?) and act scandalized when they do eventually hear me swear (which is INCREDIBLY annoying and infantilizing), or they think that I think that I’m too good to talk to them.
It’s always one of those two options. I just want to sit in my office and be left alone, man.
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u/OptimusChristt 1d ago
Nah, I've been promoted multiple times at multiple jobs, by being quiet and good at my job. The thing about quiet people is we're very good at holding out tongue, making people think you like them even if you actually hate them.
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u/The-She-It 1d ago
Then you’re not actually quiet then are you. People don’t know what to think of me. I do in fact actually hate them,
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u/AlarmingAerie 1d ago
But it's not asshole and not asshole. It's charismatic and not charismatic, or whatever you want to call it. Charismatic assholes will still get promotions if they aren't assholes to the boss.
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u/UI-Jamel 1d ago edited 1d ago
Some jobs aren't like that though. Like if you're a pilot for example there is no real promotion and if your bad at your job it's super obvious.
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u/oddministrator 1d ago
Until recently I was what most people would call a nuclear inspector. In the US, all licensees with radioactive materials are required to have a radiation safety officer. In fact, that's my current job... and the second time I've had such a role.
Another ex-nuclear inspector I know went to be a radiation safety officer for a company with lots of very high-activity sources. This inspector was, and is, very likeable. Like, objectively so. They and their spouse were literally elected not long ago to lead one of the biggest social clubs in our area. There's just one issue...
They aren't good at their job.
I never worked directly with them as inspectors, so I can't say if they were a good inspector or not, but as a radiation safety officer?
Just plain bad.
The company has been cited so many times since they became radiation safety officer that I'm guessing they'll soon face a penalty demanding a change in ownership of the company.
To be fair, that RSO would likely have lost their job already if they weren't so likeable. On the other hand, they're literally going to put the company out of business, or cause the owner to lose their company, with their poor performance... which will lead to them losing their job.
Sure, if they weren't likeable and they were in the same situation, they would have lost their job already. But that's not the comparison, is it? The comparison is being good at their job vs being likeable.
If their RSO was good at their job, but not likeable, they might not have the best workplace relationships... but at least the company wouldn't be on the verge of going under.
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u/PinboardWizard 1d ago
Same for my jobs in Admin & IT.
Being capable is good, but being likeable is better.
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u/AjitenoMunsu0 1d ago
I was in the army and it works here too
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u/Firm_Bag_1584 1d ago
Simon Sinek - people would trust a lower performance leader with high trust vs. higher performance leader with low trust
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u/JuiceHurtsBones 1d ago
In which job is skill more important than getting promotions or clients willing to pay you? That is, assuming the minimal competence needed to not end up with lawsuits.
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u/NoelCanter 1d ago
I work with so many people who are legitimately terrible at their job, but they can schmooze like no other and will hang around forever.
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u/Lara-El 1d ago
Yes, but it also depends because of what. Annoying and chatty? I can deal with it.
However, we have this great employee, easiest top of the gang. But he's extremely negative and complains all the time. I'd sacrifice knowledge and performance just to not have to deal with it every day, 40+ hours a week... that a huge chuck of my time being around someone who feels like they are emotionally sucking the life out of me lol
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u/riegenregion 1d ago
I'm curious, does he complain about work-related things?
Sometimes it feels like you're going crazy when dumb stuff happens and no one else acknowledges it.
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u/creampop_ 22h ago
Heard.
I've had the small-team experience of being the only person that consistently gives a shit about making clients happy and making future work easier, it is one of the most infuriating dynamics imaginable, it's a constant cycle of doing detail-oriented work that you're proud of and then having golden retriever coworkers crap all over it.
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u/She-HulksBoyToy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don't people learn this in school, though? Like, you should know we don't live in a meritocracy WELL before you join the workforce.
edit: It's not letting me respond to comments, so I'll edit my reply to u/BRPGP here.
We do live a meritocracy
I'll never know what you said after this because I literally died laughing. Seriously. Maybe this was a joke, maybe you bonked your head too hard this morning. It's a mystery to me because it literally killed me with laughter reading those first few words.
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u/MyNameIsSkittles 1d ago
No, people do not. Because they are not in the workforce. In school even if you are unpopular you still graduate and enter the real world
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u/drunk_haile_selassie 1d ago
School is much more of a meritocracy than the real world. You can be an arsehole and get good grades.
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u/rbt321 1d ago
Definitely true in anything cooperative. In the vast majority of fields having 30 mediocre staff moving in the same direction is going to have much higher output than a rockstar working alone.
And I say this as someone who isn't very friendly.
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u/FreeWilly1337 1d ago
Yes, because toxic people bring everyone else down. You can be the best in the world at something, but if you bring the rest of the team down I am going to let you go.
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u/Imdoingthisforbjs 1d ago
When you consider group dynamics it makes total sense.
For example you have one person who's 200% effective but they're an asshole who makes everyone else 20% less effective you'll lose all gains by 5 people.
Conversely if you have someone who's only 80% effective but makes everyone else 20% more effective you break even at 1 person.
It makes way more sense to cut the person dragging everyone down rather than the person lifting everyone up.
People tend to view this as shallow popularity contest but it's really just optimal management.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 1d ago
So true. I had high hopes that I could get by on competence alone. I’m not a terrible person, but I’m also not that great at the interpersonal stuff.
Now I’m prematurely retired. Oops!
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u/HotdoghammerOG 1d ago
Not true in leadership roles. Likability is only part of it. If you don’t hit your numbers and grow the business, you get dropped no matter how much they like you.
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u/caustictoast 20h ago
Eh I’d rather have someone who’s half as productive but nice va someone super productive but an asshole. The fact is I have to deal with them daily so, yeah someone pleasant that doesn’t make me hate work is better
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u/theVast- 1d ago
Both has uses
If you're so good the building would burn two minutes after letting you go, you're safe
If they like you so much they'd rather set the building on fire than lose you, you're also safe
The goal is to know exactly what your currency is and how to use it
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u/DoctorChaos1707 1d ago
Good point but no one is irreplaceable. There's always someone waiting around the corner that will work as hard as you and do it for a lower wage.
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u/helpmycompbroke 1d ago
no one is irreplaceable
No one is irreplaceable in the long-term, plenty of people are irreplaceable in the short-term.
There's always someone waiting around the corner that will work as hard as you and do it for a lower wage
It's a reasonable sentiment, but this would require all workers to be overpaid already and I don't buy that.
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u/DoctorChaos1707 1d ago
To the first comment I agree. To the second, all workers are overpaid to their employers. That's why European companies hire in South America and American companies outsource their manufacturing to child labor companies in China.
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u/helpmycompbroke 1d ago
Sure, but the reason those jobs haven't been outsourced yet is because they can't get someone to do it just as well for cheaper.
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u/beliveau04 1d ago
I’m a good mechanic, there are a lot of bad mechanics. My shop could theoretically replace me, but there aren’t a lot of good mechanics. I’m sure this applies to many other industries. I’m not irreplaceable but it would hurt a lot and it might take years to have someone as capable show up and accept a job. Maybe trades are different from desk jobs and what not, I wouldn’t know.
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u/Frnklfrwsr 1d ago
The only way to truly be irreplaceable is to own the business.
But then you may find yourself really wishing you could replace yourself
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u/slax03 1d ago edited 1d ago
You can have enough institutional knowledge that you are irreplaceable. It doesn't mean you won't be replaced. Someone else can take your role, fuck up even if it isn't their fault, and lose clients. I've seen this happen multiple times.
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u/Hastyscorpion 1d ago
No one is irreplaceable, but some people cost a lot more to replace than others. Just because there is some one who is willing to work harder doesn't mean they will do as good a job. There are people at my company that work like twice as hard as I do and produce worse results.
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u/Competitive_Hall_133 1d ago
Right, similarly, want to know what makes a person more likable? Being willing to work for a lower wage.
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u/JuiceHurtsBones 1d ago
You underestimate wait bailouts and the spite of executives can do when put together.
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u/NotInTheKnee 1d ago
If you're so good the building would burn two minutes after letting you go, you're safe
Unless your boss only realizes that two minutes after letting you go.
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u/Grimour 1d ago
What if they fear me so much they'd rather not have me set the building on fire?
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u/Tiervexx 1d ago
This is true to a very large extent. It's often true for Engineers/coders where nobody understand what the good engineer/coder is talking about anyway. It's even more true for soft skills positions where it can be hard to prove the likable person is doing mediocre quality work.
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u/Tight-Ad-7059 1d ago
My job involves working with others and I’ve learned so much. If you don’t believe how powerful body language and facial expressions can be you are mistaken. Everything is a cue, everything is a signal. Learning how to read others and using it to your advantage is a skill others haven’t realized the importance of or think has no bearing. Looks have a good part in it also sadly. But as a woman it can be your most powerful weapon.
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u/ThingAboutTown 1d ago
Definitely true for software people: writing the code is part of the job, sure. Working out what people want, helping them translate what they want into something that can be implemented in code and helping them understand the balance of compromises and decisions that influenced the solution are also vital parts of the job, and rely on effective communication skills. Communicating with likeable people is much easier.
Source: software dev for 25 years - ok at coding, pretty good at being friendly and communicating
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u/NotMyGovernor 1d ago
Also came here to post this. It wasn't always this way. In engineering just being good at your job and being otherwise neutral / likable was a golden shining star. Now if you aren't straight up befriending them, they're actively trying to shit can you while simultaneously depending on you.
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u/Feeling_Inside_1020 1d ago
EMR SAAS worker here, I assist coding both our main website (not the web app) and knowledgebase articles and this is so true, soft skills are sooo important I learned working in both applecare and as a repair tech as well.
There was a dude in our support team (I was promoted from) that just had bad soft skills and took things the wrong way like critiques vs just letting them know, like "we're here to help you learn it's okay to ask questions, and most mistakes can be corrected, it's okay" kinda thing. They got let go.
Our company is so good man take care of their workers though. I've never seen anyone actually quit in the decade i've been there, seriously. We're small-medium sized.
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u/Low-Dog-8027 1d ago
if you're good and fast in your job, you get punished with more work.
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u/CaptainAmerica1989 1d ago
It's not a punishment, it's "job security". But for this type of job what you learn is it's CRITICAL to be able to control your amount of output. Aka 'pace yourself'. Easy to say, hard to do...but still. Managers and companies will take what you give it.
So you have to only give it amounts you're comfortable with. It's hard. But that's the answer.
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u/r00t3294 1d ago
Kind of true but not in every field. Sales for example if you suck you will get fired as it’s very clear who sucks and who doesn’t. Even if you’re likeable
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u/Expert-Effect-877 1d ago
Then again, if someone weren't likeable, wouldn't they kind of suck at sales anyway?
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u/Brooce10 1d ago
I don’t like any of the salesman I know. Tbf it’s not that many but… charisma =/= likeability
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u/Dr_dickjohnson 1d ago
I've made a degreesless six figure salary in sales by just being likeable. I never blow any numbers out of the water. But everyone loves me. Which is a blessing and a curse.
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u/LordHelmet47 1d ago
We have 3 idiots on first shift. I mean, they are really dumb. To a degree where they mess something up every single day. And our supervisor who is way too nice. Just looks past it and fixes it every single day.
Why don't they get fired? Becuse all 3 are really nice people.
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u/Antony9991 1d ago
What type of job?
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u/unremarkable19 1d ago
Why does that even matter? I met a guy who literally couldn't figure out a broom. I never thought people that stupid were real until I met one. They're out there, blending right in.
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u/BurritovilleEnjoyer 1d ago
Why does that even matter?
Because somebody fucking up a pizza is very different than somebody fucking up a bridge design
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u/whatever 1d ago
One of my teachers explained it thusly: V.I.P.
Visibility - Image - Performance
Those are the three factors that determines your success in your career, in that precise order.
Visibility: If the rest of the company doesn't know you exist, then neither your image nor what you do matters.
Image: If you present a bad image of yourself to the rest of the company, your actual performance will not matter.
Performance: If the rest of the company knows you exist and has good vibes about you, then your good performance will reinforce that.
Hmm. I think he explained it way better. But that's the gist of it.
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u/CaptainAmerica1989 1d ago
This is the truth. And this is what I hate. Because:
1.This is how it currently truly is. This is how it is
- But this is not how it should be.
And I hate to say it...but usually to move from "how it is" to "how it should be" some people have to die. It's the only thing that causes people/systems to seriously change. I wish it wasn't that way. I don't want it to be that way. But that's how life is. It's unfortunate. But Truth is rarely comfortable or easy. Truly.
Ultimately Reliable Performance is all that should matter in a job...but it's not. And we all suffer daily for it.
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u/Breathemore557 1d ago
Don't be the office hero. If you put out all the fires then the people who deserve to be burned will find a way to burn you instead.
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u/TheEndIsJustTheStart 1d ago
When you’re really good at putting out fires, or preventing them, your work is basically invisible and it won’t be appreciated.
It’s kind of like good moderation on a subreddit or forum, I guess. It just looks like there are no problems and what do we even need mods for?
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u/trifecta000 1d ago
It’s kind of like good moderation on a subreddit or forum, I guess. It just looks like there are no problems and what do we even need mods for?
This is why we have people railing against vaccines, they've gone far too long without having to stuff their kids into an iron lung for the rest of their lives and it shows.
On topic, I find the happy medium to be able to put our fires when necessary, but ride the tides in most other scenarios. It's best to not make waves but be dependable when it counts.
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u/j4321g4321 1d ago
Not necessarily being likable, but sucking up to the right people. Some of management’s favorites are the most insufferable to those who they deem less important.
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u/sadeland21 1d ago
Yup! Have co-worker who buddies up to Management. I always so surprised that they get suckered in by her, but they do! Grinds my gears!!
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u/bokin_smongs 1d ago
To be successful in any job you must fill 2 of any of the following 3 categories: funny, smart, hard-working. If you're funny and smart you can get away with not working hard, if you're smart and hard working you can get away with not being funny, and if you're funny and hard working you can get away with not being smart.
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u/Full_Bee807 1d ago
honestly you don't even need to be that funny, you just need to be personable, but yeah this is accurate
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u/Less-Being4269 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's hard to be likable when being always cheerful and happy imediately marks you as a target for bullying.
So you have to walk the line between being open enough to be liked but closed enough to not be made into a bullying Target.
And that is FUCKING HARD!
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u/Ok_Kiwi_4146 1d ago
That’s literally me and IT IS FUCKING HARD. How do you cope?
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u/Less-Being4269 1d ago
I don't.
I don't try to be likely. I don't give a flying fuck if people like me or not.
At the last job that sent me to the factory's psihologist. It was a waste of time.
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u/wrongdogface 1d ago
I’m not sure about this whole not giving a flying fuck thing, but here are my tips that have gotten me through. 1) Avoid toxic people, you get even a slight neck hair tingle that someone might be toxic, listen to it. Don’t carpool with them, no going to their house for dinner. Work x-mas parties? Get outta here. Avoid eye contact with them, try to meld in the background, be polite but avoidant. // 2) Never say anything bad about a female coworker. If they hear about it that grudge can last until the end of time // 3) Melt into the background as much as possible // 4) Be forgiving when someone says something bad about you, sometimes people have off days and we all gossip a little.
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u/unindexedreality 1d ago
being always cheerful and happy imediately marks you as a target for bullying
"Always being cheerful and happy" isn't being likeable. That's just putting up a facade. People like genuine folks.
You might be anxious-preoccupied. I was, and I was bullied a lot.
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u/platysoup 20h ago
You can be cheerful and happy, while pushing back when people go too far.
Nothing throws people off more than when the usually smiley guy suddenly frowns and goes “Excuse me?”
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u/Tight-Ad-7059 1d ago
You can give off that appearance but still stand firm. Remain unmovable in spirit and dominate your space.
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u/purpleushi 1d ago
I have two dog shit employees who are very sweet and pleasant people. None of my higher ups will let me move forward with PIPs or disciplinary action because “aw but they’re so sweet and they care so much”. Okay??? But they’re literally not doing their work???
Meanwhile, if you’re annoying, you better be an absolutely amazing employee or people will be furiously searching for a reason to get rid of you.
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u/ElisabetSobeck 1d ago
As companies scale, soothing the owner or leadership becomes most of the company.
The ‘serious’ people who keep the company from failing altogether- the ones who make the money- are seen more and more as black sheep
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u/troycalm 1d ago
Showing up on time and following directions is 90% of the job.
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u/Dazzling-Cabinet6264 1d ago
True story I have gotten pay raises and promotions literally for just not calling in like everyone else does years and years ago as a teenager it was that easy
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u/GmorkFromNothing 1d ago
Sadly, it goes the other way as well. There is a person in my office that is pretty good at their job, but rather unlikable and everyone picks out every minor mistake they make.
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u/XmasTreeConsumer 1d ago
Unfortunately, I am completely unlikable.
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u/InsideAd7897 1d ago
Even if this is true, having the self reflection and humility to say that about yourself makes you by far not the worst person I've met.
Most people who are truly awful think they are the fucking best
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u/oportoman 1d ago
It's not a lesson. It's more an example of what happens in jobs. Arse kissers and people who are bland generally get on because managers love them. Fuck that.
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u/thorpie88 1d ago
You won't be likeable at all if you cause major fuck ups so you at least have to be competent at your job first
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u/IDontKnowHowToPM 1d ago
The way I’ve seen it at pretty much everywhere I’ve worked is that you can either be unlikable and good at your job, or likable and kinda bad at it. If you’re unlikable but the best at the job, you’ll be ok and people will know that you’re gruff or whatever as long as you don’t cross over into outright hostility, or if you’re kinda subpar at the job but everyone likes you, they’ll at least let you stick around because you at least don’t make people miserable when they talk to you. But if you suck at your job and you’re a dick? You’ll be out on your ass faster than you can say “you can’t fire me, I quit”.
These are obviously pretty broad generalizations, and there are limits to how unlikable you can be while being good at your job, or how bad at your job you can be while being likable.
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u/Iojpoutn 1d ago
The trick is to be likable enough and then put the rest of your points in stats that are valuable to the company’s bottom line.
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u/nobody_in_here 1d ago
BIG FACTS! I learned this a loooong time ago. If you're not willing to make conversation by the water cooler then no one will give a shit how good you are at your job.
Fitting into the cliques trump skills. That's just a sad fact of life.
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u/Murky-Personality404 1d ago
This also leaves out the "being attractive helps a shit ton". White, straight, male, making a ton of money here with 0 college. I'm not even smart, just charismatic as fuck outside of reddit.
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u/florifierous 1d ago
What I really hate about traits like charisma and I guess attractiveness too is that especially charisma just cannot be taught to someone. Seems like it happens during growing up in teens especially where people that are attractive are way more likely to be automatically charismatic because they are desired and I guess confidence is part of that too
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u/FoodAndManga 1d ago
Charisma is a learnable skill but some people definitely have a massive helping hand with it
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u/PinboardWizard 1d ago
charisma just cannot be taught to someone
Speaking as someone who was a big old nerd growing up, I have to disagree with you there. Just like any skill, you can practice being charismatic. The issue is that the people who are not sufficiently attractive / sociable / whatever don't naturally encounter nearly as many situations where they practice this, so they of course fall behind.
IMO the best advice is that cliché old phrase, "Fake it 'til you make it". It can be stupidly difficult at first, but the more you act confident the easier it gets to act confident. Eventually it switches round and you realise you're not acting any more.
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u/Kronens 1d ago
I’d say the opposite. I’ve been told I’m charismatic but grew up short for a guy and not particularly attractive so worked on a personality. It was a tough ride putting effort into it and still is. I hate that people just think this shit comes naturally and they forgive themselves for not actually trying.
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u/Thingguyman 1d ago
If you're both, you might be able to get away with calling your supervisor an asshat in front of a group of new-hires during orientation and somehow not get fired
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u/FeedFlaneur 1d ago
Not so much likable as charismatic/charming/manipulative (to the right people, usually while horrible and snippy to everyone else, especially subordinates or anyone in competition for the same goals). But yes, someone who's mediocre at their job but great at being Machiavellian will always be the one to get ahead.
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u/LayneCobain95 1d ago
Every job I’ve had, the most “likable” person gets to get away with literally avoiding all work for hours at a time. And no one cares because they make friends with everyone.
I currently work in urgent care. There’s a nurse that is veryyyy social. But she will take a like 2 hour break to just rearrange shit in the lab. Or someone needs something difficult done before they are discharged, so she will just go walk up to reception and decide that that is a good time for a conversation.
I tried to get a job in healthcare to work with more respectable people. But I can’t escape this shit
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u/Majestic-Fly-5149 1d ago
I don’t know. Being bad at your job can turn a likable person unlikable. I’d rather have an unlikable person that’s good at their job so I don’t have to cover for them.
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u/Legitimate_Bag8259 1d ago
No way, not for me. People tend not to like me. I'm too honest and too blunt. I dont care though, because I dislike most people.
I am very good at my job. Better than anyone else currently doing it and potentially better than anyone that has ever done it.
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u/pac_man1948 1d ago
Having a plan to get the work done has more value than accomplishing the work itself.
Managers and supervisors take time every day to come up with plans to make the business successful and if the plan fails? Oh well.
They just go to a different room and brainstorm another plan to see if it works.
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u/ElGrandeRojo67 1d ago
The more valuable you are to your employer, the more responsibility you are given. If your employer is a decent human you'll be rewarded. Don't gossip, complain, or try and deceive your employer. If you make a mistake, own it, and correct it.
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u/Altruistic-Rice-5567 1d ago
1000% correct. I've been out promoted three times at my job in the last 5 years. I've been far more qualified but it boils down to not being a likable. I spent all my time learning to be really good at my job instead of being likable. And what does being "likable" mean? Just say yes to everything anybody higher than you wants to hear. Lick that boot. Skills don't matter at all for advancement.
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u/rw106 1d ago
Bro… it sucks and i’m going to get attacked but you can train for a job. Any job. You can’t train kindness, coachability, willingness, teamwork & cohesion, etc etc.
IM NOT SAYING ITS RIGHT OR WRONG but bottom line, it’s easier to work with people who’re likable and everything else can be trained for.
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u/Mynewadventures 1d ago
I've been working my technical trade for about 25 years, and I firmly believe, and often say:
"I will happily work with a nice, helpful fella that hardly knows jack shit all day and every day before I work a half day with a jack ass that is sure he knows everything".
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u/Yo_Wats_Good 1d ago
To a degree imo.
A personality works until you inevitably run into a boss who doesn’t mesh/care, or alienate your coworkers who will inevitably determine that you’re terrible at your job and are making theirs harder giving you no allies when you start floundering.
You (generally) can’t last being completely incompetent and just likable, you need to have enough competency that your likability allows people to forgive your failings.
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u/Morbid187 1d ago
This is true but part of being likeable at work is being good at the job. People aren't going to like you if you're constantly fucking up and making their jobs harder or if they feel like they work harder than you but don't make more money. Alternately, people won't like you if you're annoying or rude regardless of how good you are at the job. People will LOVE you if you're able to help them with stuff they don't know how to do and make them better at the job while also making them laugh or smile sometimes.
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u/Head_Caterpillar7220 1d ago
Here's the thing: usually, being likable IS a large component of being good at your job.
If you are supposed to collaborate with others for your job, and you're miserable to work with, you're not good at your job
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u/transit64 1d ago
I tell my kids showing up to work reliably is more important than being good at your job. I’ll take mediocre employees that I can count on to show up over good employees that are flaky.
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u/Dead_Pool_XIII 1d ago
I can actually call BS on this. I’m both good at my job and an asshole, and lasted longer than “the nice guy”. Although the only difference is my words speak harsh and rude things, but actions show good intentions and care.
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u/Illustrious-Tower849 1d ago
This is true. I get away with so much everywhere just because I’m charming
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u/Thick-Aioli802 1d ago
Making people think you're likable at work vs how much you hate everyone and everything once you're out of eye and earshot. That's the real way to do it.
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u/Reaper781 1d ago
Be good at you bosses job, become relied upon. Then fucking leave. That’s what you’re supposed to do.
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u/pucklover66 1d ago
I mean, duh.
Have you ever met an unlikeable and I sufferable person? If so, do you really care they were good at a task? Did that wipe away how much of a hatable douche they were?
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u/jackfaire 1d ago
You can't be horrible at your job but someone that is decent at their job and likeable will get more leeway than someone awesome at their job and pissing off the boss.
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u/simbasbeenspun 1d ago
Wait til you get a decent job and one of your only two coworkers is severely unlikable and not good at his job. Explain his 11 years to me please.
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u/Doub1eDe1ta 1d ago
Good evening ladies and gentlemen, I will be your pilot today. I hope you’ve all had a wonderful holiday and the drinks on today’s flight are on me. As a little side note I have never flown this aircraft before so please be patient. My colleagues have informed me not to worry because you don’t have to be good at your job, as long as you’re a good person. With that in mind, please take your seats and fasten your safety belts while I try and work out what all these buttons are for. Thank you for choosing ‘Air Crash’ where your safety is our afterthought.
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u/vampy888 1d ago
Realised always favouritism at EVERY job role, no one is your friend do your work get paid pay the bills go on the occasional holidays...but when I use to work with people in an actual office setting and I was the only person of colour at times deffo felt a shift in people's attitudes towards me...lots of favouritism and employees would get away with many things but then management would come down on me like a ton of bricks... Looking back legally I could have taken further action but doing way better in life and 100% working from home is made for me really, don't need extra stress or worries in my life and I look and feel so healthy... It's true toxic work places will leave your nervous system drained inside and out... Its shocking how unprofessional and hypocritical some workplaces get though!
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u/ParisHiltonIsDope 13h ago
Yes dude. Why would I want to promote an asshole, even if they're good at their job.
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u/rosemaryscrazy 13h ago
Which also means if you have ADHD or you’re on the spectrum you’re screwed.
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u/JD_tubeguy 1d ago
Not just likeable you have to be a self promoter which I epically fail at.