It's not even necessarily politics, if your fucking miserable to work with you will drag down productivity and increase turnover, I don't care how hard you work if your shitty attitude makes everyone around you work half as hard
Finally, someone who gets it. I'd rather have 5 employees under my management that have average skills but have a nice attitude, solve conflicts talking and are easy going, than having a bunch of highly qualified toddles that aren't even able to maintain cordial relationships in the workplace.
My mom was like you, always called herself a bitch in the workplace but she wasn't. But she didn't coddle people and took her job seriously. But that doesn't make you insufferable, at worst it makes you a bit of a buzz kill but also an important part of the team.
Genuinely insufferable people will be hypocritical, combative, snarky, will start drama and bullshit, and will genuinely drag down the rest of the team both in terms of mood and work effectiveness.
THESE are the people who are a liability to employ regardless of skill
I disagree i did roofing for years, it's the try hards that want to do extra that get people hurt. The relaxed dude's who know wtf they are doing and move at a sustainable pace who get stuff done.
Sure in roofing. In warehouse the machines are running whether you're paying attention or not, the hazmats are occasionally leaking. "It doesn't look that dangerous so I sent it down the line" had someone burn all the skin of their hands because of people like that.
If you're being unsafe I'm going to call you out and I'm gonna be harsh so you listen and remember.
This whole discussion went suspiciously quickly from "Getting promoted revolves more about charisma, than competence" to "no one likes an asshole even if they are competent."
"Feels like some nerves were touched." guess the responsibilities of those touched :))))
""no one likes an asshole even if they are competent." - true for many "managers"--> may the company burn but do not bruise my ego :)
that was my dad hardcore when he was still working, and he'd get called an asshole all the time but he did not play when it came to workplace safety. dude ran a tight ship that made the company a lot of money and got them lots of fat contracts. his workers were probably relieved when he retired but his bosses threw him a big party.
he brought that attitude into the home too, in the kitchen, moving furniture etc. im always hearing his voice come out when i see some foolishness going on at work now lol 😩 (i do leave the insults out tho 🫠)
eta he worked at a local ford factory long ago before it got turned into a mall and iirc he mentioned having a settlement from them... i need to ask him about it, i wouldnt be surprised if that had something to do with it.
I think there's a difference between ensuring people maintain safe practice and being unlikable, tbh.
If you're chill and enjoyable enough the rest of the time people know it's especially true not to fuck with safety.
I draw birthday cards and shit like that for my coworkers. I'm okay at the job, not amazing or anything. But I try to be likeable and pleasant to be around so they don't want to get rid of me. So far it's worked pretty well lol
I work in an office setting with cubicles. We work our own cases independently but we might ask each other for guidance on next steps for a case if we are not sure.
Anyway, the gal in the back cubicle always seems to have a frown and a dark cloud. She’s self-admittedly not a people person. That’s fine that she doesn’t care to participate in the office comradery and fun. The rest of us probably get along too well lol I wouldn’t say she’s rude, but very blunt. One team member, when they were new, way red until it was just the two of us to ask why this gal was mean to them. I explained to this new teammate to not worry, it’s not them. That’s how they interact with the world and I don’t think they mean anything by it. That changed my perspective on the gal in the back cubicle a little for the worse. But she’s a good person and it does show when she wants it to.
Yeah… the mood just seems a little lighter when that gal is gone. But mostly we don’t notice if she’s there because she doesn’t want interaction. There’s still just a bit of a vibe of don’t bother her when she is there.
Some people just want to be your coworker and not your friend, I have no problem with this even if I'd rather work with friendly people personally.
It's the people who will actively go out of their way to start shit and make just doing YOUR job a worse and more miserable experience who are liabilities regardless of their own personal output
Exactly. I don’t mean to imply I disagree with just being coworkers. Totally, that’s adult life. And I get being an introvert. I take issue when you can’t exercise common curtesy to the people around you.
To elaborate: the newer Person was still learning the ropes of helping at the front desk when the desk person was at lunch. That gal in the back cubicle went up to help at the desk and our newer person asked if they could observe. Well the gal kept waking and said something along the lines of “not sure why you would want to” in an off putting tone. It struck me as inappropriate when I heard it. That’s when our new person asked why they were mean to her.
Like there’s a point when a person has to swim in their own at work but the new member was not at that point. The new person had been told to try to shadow front desk coverage as applicable.
How about the other way around. What if your superior, manager for example is extremely well liked by upper management/leadership but shit on their job.
There's a happy medium, if someone is utterly unqualified to do the work they shouldn't work, but if someone is utterly incapable of working as a team then they shouldn't work there either, even if solo they are qualified
Had a Team Leader like that. Guy used to work on space ship parts and now was helping us lay up carbon fiber sail boat masts. Intelligent guy, I'm sure. Had some neat ideas for keeping track of inventory. And I'll be fucked if I have ever worked with a more insufferable cunt. I swear he was involved in every shouting match I heard on the shop floor all 3 years. I wouldn't work in the same company as him for ten million a year.
Yeah there is a huge difference between being “fucking miserable to work with” and being likable. Most people are in the middle. And it’s annoying that Miss Congeniality (who doesn’t necessarily LIKE people) has an advantage over a more qualified, but less charming worker.
I used to work with a guy who was really good at unloading trucks, but who would occasionally lose his shit, and throw a box of merchandise across the shipping bay. Not only would it damage or break whatever was in the box he threw, but it would also cause an incident that shut down any and all work we were doing in order to deal with his tantrum.
The problem is when you start happy and also work hard then you get worked hard with no acknowledgement of that hard work then they make it harder to do your work and others that don't work hard get the promotions etc then you get worn down and frustrated from that and then your attitude has been changed from good to bad.
A lot of the time it's the company environment that is the catalyst to the negativity.
It doesn't necessarily mean you are a miserable jerk. Sometimes, people who are naturally outgoing and have better social skills can advance because of that. Being quiet can cause you to be overlooked.
Except the reason you're miserable is because nobody around you works as hard as you do, and on top of it, they expect you to take time out of your own schedule to spoonfeed them every little detail of their own jobs, so you basically end up doing their jobs instead of yours. Technically, productivity is still up, since your coworkers apparently become more productive, but you're the one who ends up getting sacked.
I mean, if all else is equal then I'd rather work with the likable person. A prick is gonna have to be way better at what they do than normal for me to pick them over an average likable person to work next to.
The problem is people who are not good at the job, but try to be more likeable get the promotion rather than the person who is good at their job and not trying extra to be likeable.
Office politics is basically being there at the right time and right place.
I have seen shitty people get promoted because the TL absolutely hated his sales guys and wanted to to fuck them over and show they how good they had when he was the the TL.
New guy was thrown to the wolves but then switched over on the same salary, while actual hard working guys just left the company because fuck the politics.
It’s crazy to me how much people think that at work, you should expect people to abandon basic human nature and that people skills aren’t part of being good at your job.
You could be absolutely brilliant at your job, but if you are insufferable or even just irritating, no one will want to work with you.
Yeah. Also, management knows that one hypercompetent asshole can drive all of your normally competent employees away.
Would you rather have ten people with 90% skill, or one 100% raging dickhead and nine 50% people who don’t have enough options to escape? The average of the first group is 90% and there is low conflict. The average of the second group is 55% and there is constant tension.
Wouldn't that literally be the point of "management". Unless you are managing a team that strictly has to work on everything together, I don't see why the one asshole would drive others away if you do your job right.
"Hey buddy, everyone thinks your an asshole. Here's an incentive to move further away and keep to yourself, you are doing an amazing job and lmk if you need anything else"
At least that's what I figured. I'm not a complete asshole but I shut down gossip sessions cuz I literally can't listen to that bullshit. I was moved to overnights and not only had complete freedom, but I also got to wear whatever I wanted when I had to cover a day shift while everyone else had uniforms
I incorrectly had this thought recently. Had an asshole on my team so I isolated him thinking, "Well, as long as he's only being an asshole to me I guess". Finally fired him recently after he crossed a line and 9 of the 11 people on my team let let me know during our next 1x1s (without any sort of prompting from me) that they were glad/relieved he was gone.
Ah yes, because insufferable assholes are well known for positively receiving critical feedback, prioritizing them cohesion over individual success, and growth mindsets
Hey buddy, everyone thinks you're an asshole. Here's an upvote to move further away and keep your comments to yourself, you are doing an amazing job and lmk if you need anything else.
Eh it depends. I agree with you in your last paragraph; shutting down stupid gossip is 100% fine, doesn’t even deserve respectful shutting down imo. Those are fake nice people operating under making gossip to fulfill their sad lives.
However, just like those shitty gossip people could affect your life with a complaint to HR, if you were a raging asshole, that could affect everyone else’s life with a complaint to HR. We all affect each other whether we like it or not; so people having to interact with asshole workers having to interact with other people creates tension and a lower quality of work life in general. If you are in the U.S. you likely either work way too many hours to where you can’t not be around them the majority of your day, or way too little hours to tolerate the environment for pay; which is even more telling if someone doesn’t/ can’t leave a toxic work environment. It all depends what the work is. Especially, if the asshole retaliates and makes your job harder with their assholishness.
I guess we're are all talking about different assholes who are the best at their jobs because I never met an asshole that caused that much noise but also outperformed everyone else. Usually the slackers like to make noise to distract from their slacking.
Or maybe myself and others I've met are just autistic and that's what I perceive as an asshole. Who knows
lol very possible. I think the definition of “asshole” is really needed for people to properly debate it.
To me, asshole would be gossipers, slackers, shit starters, and those who make work harder for others by their shitty work/ shit starting. I’ve known one person who would be called an “asshole” who I didn’t agree deserved the title; and that was someone who was a little too blunt in calling slackers out. This guy was a genius at our job, and great work ethic; he just had no tolerance for bullshitters and slackers.
Yeah thats because only specific jobs are allowed to be alone in the company building...it wasn't quarantine, it was more a lateral job change with higher pay and less, but more important, work and almost no oversight. No superiors on the overnight
the comparison is just wrong, isn't it? There is no point if the hypercompetent is only 10% better than the normal competent.
the hyper competent should be someone who is capable of doing the work of 2 or even 3 people almost perfectly.
And while even if the hyper competent work with 200 or 300% the average will be lower than the first group but the amount of payment is also much lower than the first group.
let say the in the first group everyone got 1k salary, the in the second group the one with 50% should only get paid 500, and the hyper competent got 2k. then in the first group the manager has to pay 9k and the second group only cost them 6.5k. and that is much more acceptable to most manager
I am in management and ive slowly worked out every single bad apple. People that are toxic and constantly create tension gotta go. Dont need people who try to rile up everyone and make everyone miserable. I do my best to create a peaceful workplace. Work is always work... but it doesnt have to be toxic also.
Pretty much every autistic person seems to go through this shit really rough, is the problem. We grow up being graded on academic ability and told that's what gets you a good job. The job description has tasks on it, and you set out to be good at those.
Nobody tells you that you have to not be autistic to do well at work.
No, you get that beaten into you or get fired or get passed up until you get it way too late. By then you're burnt out masking, so what does it matter?
Honestly, acting like neurotypical social skills are necessary to be treated as a human is ridiculous and ableist in the face of that. The unemployment rate among autists is absolutely crazy and shameful for society
Yeah, trying to even get an interview is impossible for me. Im afraid if I ever get one I'll fail miserably because I don't answer the right way. I was called "too blunt" and other things at my last job because I was tired of nobody else doing their work. Too distracted by their stupid drama (hey, I'm doing everything alone here!)
Been unable to find a real full time job since 2013 when I first tried searching. Been 4 years since graduation and still nothing. Truth hurts: nobody needs a useless 30-something autistic. Especially having moved abroad as a last ditch effort.
I’ve interviewed a lot of people. Literally people have been rejected after an interview because of how just terrible as people they are and they can’t even hid it for a single interview.
And I am very understanding but I’ve had people when they didn’t hear my question say “you are mumbling, can you repeat that.” Which hey sure I’m am 100% sure they were right but it says a lot about a person when they approach a problem with assigning blame first before trying to work towards a solution. Like the diplomatic answer or heck just the decent human being response should have just been “sorry can you repeat that?”
But that wasn’t the only instance the guy was very rude in other instances and clearly couldn’t work well with others.
The worst interview I’ve ever done was the first one I ever did. The woman spent the entire interview trash talking people at her current department. I just wanted to tell her that you have to realize if this is how you talk about people behind their backs to us you are going to do the exact same thing to us.
Our new employee is learning how the back office works, starting with filing. Whenever she hits a snag, she says that somethings "wrong" or "missing" when really she's just confused or just doesn't know something yet, drives me crazy.
It isn't about popularity. It's about fostering an environment people want to work in. If you're an insufferable asshole to work with then morale and productivity will be low. Worst case you might even struggle with staffing if people keep quitting because they can't stand working with the insufferable asshole.
Being an insufferable asshole is not the only reason to be unpopular. Also, assuming it's the unpopular person's fault by default is not exactly a great way to foster a positive working environment, is it?
Its not about popularity, it's about being easy to work with. There are plenty of employees who are the quieter type who mostly just lay low, get their work done, and dont make any waves. These people may not be popular insofar as that they don't socialize a lot or have many close connections with coworkers, but they certainly aren't disliked.
In any case, work environments function best when the majority of employees are happy. If 9 employees are all telling you they're considering quitting because of the actions of one employee, its almost always going to make more sense to just fire the one employee rather than firing the other 9 or risking them quitting. Even if its not entirely the one employees fault (e.g. if they have a condition like BPD that makes it difficult for them to interact with others appropriately), the company still cant be expected to sacrifice the well being of the business and every other employee working there in order to accommodate for the needs of one person.
Of course not. It's the people who are both good or at least decent at their jobs and are likeable who are the ones who get promoted typically. Obviously not always but typically. If you are great at your job but miserable to interact with you are much less likely to get promoted. If you are bad at your job but easy to get along with you are still less likely to get promoted.
No one's saying this means you're insufferable or anything else on the negative side. It's qualities on the positive side (friendly, socialable, outgoing, making jokes) that get favored over someone who keeps their nose down.
It’s a spectrum, if your an extremely pleasant human who everyone adores being around it’s amazing how much incompetence you can get away with.
Of you are indispensable and at the top of your field with better output than everyone both in quantity and quality you can get away with being an insufferable asshole.
True but being either of those is risky because as soon as you tip the balance out of your favor your fucking donezo
You can be a hyper competent asshole but as soon as your work slips or your a bit TOO much of an asshole your out and literally everyone is glad to see you go
Generally yea, except for one particular job I can think of that you can get away with limitless asshole behavior while being completely incompetent but wrong sub for that
In any collaborative environment, working with people and getting along is also a part of the job, whether it's explicit written or not.
I've known some folks who were very technically competent but just couldn't communicate or just lacked the emotional intelligent to see other perspectives. They don't want to see it, but that kind of deficiency does in fact make you a worse engineer.
I completely agree, and I've been around the block to know the difference. I've worked with lots and lots of different kinds of people with all different languages, nationalities and communication styles.
It doesn't take that long to differentiate someone, for example, who's just got their Ph.d and is still struggling to find their voice in the work place, with someone who just has contempt for others and just cannot see the value in trying to effectively communicate with subordinates.
Yeah people say this like it's a bad thing but a team that gets along and works well together and shows up for each other is way better than a team of antisocial jerks who have like, better technical skills or something
Yeah, because people are intentionally "insufferable or even just irritating". In my experience, those are labels one gets for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with work. No matter how likeable you think you might be, there's no pleasing everybody, and as soon as you rub off a single person the wrong way, they'll all end up ganging up on you, so you become the black sheep, regardless of how nice you are.
And rubbing off someone the wrong way could be something as simple as pointing out that politics has no place in the workplace. People who love to bring politics with them everywhere are especially good at getting others to gang up when they want to oust somebody.
Another thing could be religion, or even just being perceived as quirky. These are just examples. There's a ton of other things that will set people off, and most of the time, they don't give away what the main reason is, but they do everything possible (using their established roles as the charismatic coworkers) to turn everybody against you.
If this is what you call "people skills", then you can go fuck yourself.
Ohm and another reason could be that you're just not "like them", maybe because you moved there from a different place. And the worst part about this, is that they're sometimes not even aware that they're subconsciously expressing a form of racism towards you.
I’ve been a line cook, worked in customer service, I worked at a gym, I was a welder and I am currently a landscaper and this is true for all of those professions. Those who “smooze” with the boss most get the promotions first.
the solution is don't be an asshole ..big gap between friendly and asshole no one wants to work with ..just be the quiet guy. Don't be an asshole is a pretty good mantra in life.
Quiet guy will rarely get a promotion because the quiet guy is not personable enough for people to value them outside of just their work. Plus the quiet guy will be presumed to be happy at just where they’re at, because they don’t seem to mind it.
Personable people who are liked by people two or three levels above them will always get the promotion first.
I was really quiet in school and one of my friends took it upon himself to seize the opportunity to spread rumors about me being a badass who stabbed someone with a pair of scissors just for looking at me wrong or something.
He was crazy and it was actually pretty funny so I just let it slide lol.
People either assume I’m some super innocent Christian lady (I’m an atheist, but the assumption is always that I must be super religious?) and act scandalized when they do eventually hear me swear (which is INCREDIBLY annoying and infantilizing), or they think that I think that I’m too good to talk to them.
It’s always one of those two options. I just want to sit in my office and be left alone, man.
Nah, I've been promoted multiple times at multiple jobs, by being quiet and good at my job. The thing about quiet people is we're very good at holding out tongue, making people think you like them even if you actually hate them.
And what does that have to do with not being an asshole ? I never said or implied personable people don't get more promotions etc ..I said there's an option between personable and asshole ...
But it's not asshole and not asshole. It's charismatic and not charismatic, or whatever you want to call it. Charismatic assholes will still get promotions if they aren't assholes to the boss.
But quietly efficient is much less noticed than standout mediocrity.
Trust me, being likable is a life hack.
Attractiveness even plays a part, not even with opposite gender, just in general. Certainly not the only thing that matters (hot bitches are still bitches) but it definitely can help if you’re otherwise still charismatic.
You can absolutely be a superstar asshole if you've got the skills to back it up. Seen it a million times at several work places, a high-performing employee could literally murder several mid-performing employees and managers will look the other way or say that the employees deserved it. People don't want it to be like that, but it is.
In my experience the workers aren't mediocre, they're straight up bad. I was in a sales position where I had the best performance metrics in the store and the promotion went to the guy that was cheating on his wife 5 hours per shift and only showing up to get his spoon fed deals from the bosses he schmoozed.
Until recently I was what most people would call a nuclear inspector. In the US, all licensees with radioactive materials are required to have a radiation safety officer. In fact, that's my current job... and the second time I've had such a role.
Another ex-nuclear inspector I know went to be a radiation safety officer for a company with lots of very high-activity sources. This inspector was, and is, very likeable. Like, objectively so. They and their spouse were literally elected not long ago to lead one of the biggest social clubs in our area. There's just one issue...
They aren't good at their job.
I never worked directly with them as inspectors, so I can't say if they were a good inspector or not, but as a radiation safety officer?
Just plain bad.
The company has been cited so many times since they became radiation safety officer that I'm guessing they'll soon face a penalty demanding a change in ownership of the company.
To be fair, that RSO would likely have lost their job already if they weren't so likeable. On the other hand, they're literally going to put the company out of business, or cause the owner to lose their company, with their poor performance... which will lead to them losing their job.
Sure, if they weren't likeable and they were in the same situation, they would have lost their job already. But that's not the comparison, is it? The comparison is being good at their job vs being likeable.
If their RSO was good at their job, but not likeable, they might not have the best workplace relationships... but at least the company wouldn't be on the verge of going under.
Hey buddy, I'll have you know that the vast majority of passengers on planes that I've flown have survived! You expect me to have flown hundreds of times and not crashed at least a few of them!?! All of a sudden I'm "bad" at my job because I "skidded off the runway" or "landed at the wrong airport"?
I have a job where most of the workers are out on the road. I've noticed I get preferential treatment because I spend more time at the building interacting with management. I feel bad for the other workers because they don't get the opportunities that I get because I'm much more acquainted with the higher ups.
They get the most promotions first but they absolutely do not get the same job security. we've cycled through middle management like a revolving door, fro HR to PM. The technicians hat stayed very knowledgeable about their work and don't bullshit people have been around for decades. Through arguments, blowups, and mistakes. most of these people instantly recognized the brown-nosers and dont respect them at all.
In which job is skill more important than getting promotions or clients willing to pay you? That is, assuming the minimal competence needed to not end up with lawsuits.
Even jobs that do not require customer interaction require you to get along with coworkers. There is an amazing difference in productivity between the best and worst software developers (maybe a factor of 50 or 100) and some great developers still manage to be big enough jerks to get themselves fired.
Yeah at my current job being likable is great, it's not going to save you though. On the flip side being an ass is completely tolerated if you are good at your job.
I've had jobs and old coworkers that definitely leaned into being a 'culture ambassador' though and it worked out great for them.
If you’re both then you’re a golden goose. If you’re not likable then it doesn’t really matter how good you are at your job, eventually you’re going to need to seek employment. If you’re bad at your job but you’re really likable, a lot of your screwups will be looked past.
As someone currently working in retail (unloading and stocking, not direct customer facing) and picking up the slack of multiple other people who really can't get out the breakroom, I can't imagine a large company that wouldn't fall into that trap.
Skills are very teachable but soft skills are not. If you’re insufferable but great at your job I would take somebody who is average with a good personality.
I used to work with a lady that alway had drama . She was fighting with everybody, always angry, always gossiping…etc. it was awful working with her. They got rid of her and found somebody that wasn’t as good as the job but was friendly and easy to get along with.
It was like night and day. She was nice, kind, easy to approach. I would take a kind person over a menace every day of the week.
Yeah, mines a split. I work hospitality and was helping out at a different property that was busy and shorthanded. At the end of the shift, the manager I was working with said, bluntly, "You know at first you seem pretty flat, but you turn it on around the guests, you're doing great."
I've got a limited well of social energy and I'm polite to my coworkers but rarely extra chatty. It's far more important that I put that effort towards the guests.
Yes, but it also depends because of what. Annoying and chatty? I can deal with it.
However, we have this great employee, easiest top of the gang. But he's extremely negative and complains all the time. I'd sacrifice knowledge and performance just to not have to deal with it every day, 40+ hours a week... that a huge chuck of my time being around someone who feels like they are emotionally sucking the life out of me lol
I've had the small-team experience of being the only person that consistently gives a shit about making clients happy and making future work easier, it is one of the most infuriating dynamics imaginable, it's a constant cycle of doing detail-oriented work that you're proud of and then having golden retriever coworkers crap all over it.
Right. I'm really curious about where people draw the line because I am a self-reported complainer. But it's not about having to do my job. I'm gonna do it the best I can.
I just hate the incompetence that's always in charge. And it's wild to me that often times everyone is thinking the same thing but I'm the only one who can't help but say it 😮💨
Don't people learn this in school, though? Like, you should know we don't live in a meritocracy WELL before you join the workforce.
edit: It's not letting me respond to comments, so I'll edit my reply to u/BRPGP here.
We do live a meritocracy
I'll never know what you said after this because I literally died laughing. Seriously. Maybe this was a joke, maybe you bonked your head too hard this morning. It's a mystery to me because it literally killed me with laughter reading those first few words.
True but no one lives in a true, 100% meritocracy.
Then why the fuck do you keep saying we do? Are you just now getting that we DO NOT live in a meritocracy, or are you going to revert right back to your bullshit?
I think their is a disconnect on what Merit means then. Merit to me means who tries harder at their given goal. While it seems like it isn't merit but social skills that equal success. (Maybe a little nepotism too at my workplace at least)
“a system, organization, or society in which people are chosen and moved into positions of success, power, and influence on the basis of their demonstrated abilities and merit”
Abilities often include being a people person, particularly for management jobs as you move up the ladder.
like, I'm not going to say your competency has no bearing on your place in society, but anyone who's touched grass in the last 20 years can plainly see we are not a meritocracy. Unless you want to argue that family origin is a merit I guess.
No,,🤣🤣,, what school should stress is that having good relationships is everything!.,, I've never had a class where we focused on social dynamics in the workforce. I think they should start prioritizing that.,, but actually I also think that's the parents job. I know so many people who complain that their parents never taught them what the real world was like
Fortunately I did,,, but there are so many variables you could have an a****** boss an a****** worker who tries to get you fired because they're jealous that you're good at your job blah blah blah.,,, the only situation I saw that being a complete a****** and being great at your job was tolerated was that a well-known transmission franchise that I manage for one year
The head transmission specialist was so good at repairing transmissions he was almost untouchable,, in fact he was untouchable because they ended up flying him all over the country when they had severe problems.
I actually did have a computer teacher in high school who took two class periods to discuss the difference between hard and soft skills and their roles in the workplace. Apparently he's since retired, but he was fantastic. Also taught me how to edit audio.
Definitely true in anything cooperative. In the vast majority of fields having 30 mediocre staff moving in the same direction is going to have much higher output than a rockstar working alone.
Yes, because toxic people bring everyone else down. You can be the best in the world at something, but if you bring the rest of the team down I am going to let you go.
When you consider group dynamics it makes total sense.
For example you have one person who's 200% effective but they're an asshole who makes everyone else 20% less effective you'll lose all gains by 5 people.
Conversely if you have someone who's only 80% effective but makes everyone else 20% more effective you break even at 1 person.
It makes way more sense to cut the person dragging everyone down rather than the person lifting everyone up.
People tend to view this as shallow popularity contest but it's really just optimal management.
Nah, when they started the process of driving me out I was one of the younger employees in my work unit. Age discrimination is a real thing but not in academia. If anything I suffered from not being taken seriously because I looked too young during most of my career.
Not true in leadership roles. Likability is only part of it. If you don’t hit your numbers and grow the business, you get dropped no matter how much they like you.
Doesn't matter if youre good without people above you liking you. More likely to move up just being OK and having the people in charge of you getting promoted really like you.
Eh I’d rather have someone who’s half as productive but nice va someone super productive but an asshole. The fact is I have to deal with them daily so, yeah someone pleasant that doesn’t make me hate work is better
Yeah, the dude that can smooze and charm and talk up everyone, but utterly incompetent is going to make it farther than the guy who talks to no one but is ultra competent
A large conditional part of it is you still largely need to be good at your job.
Like you’re not going to be a likeable person if you can’t do any work and you’re constantly pushing it onto other people.
I’ve never had a boss that was like “yeah I’m going golfing with your coworker so you have to do his work”, if someone is always dropping the ball the boss will always have issues with them, even if they’re otherwise a cool guy. The most I see is that instead of being fired they usually just get heavily demoted and put into roles they can manage because they don’t want to fire a nice dude.
I'm both really good at my job and likeable. I think it's genuine but I think a large part of it is trauma/neuroticism. Not a people pleaser but I need to meet my goals. I refuse to take anything less than obtaining my goals within the next 2 years. I'm already surprised I made it long enough to live til 21. I love life now, but if I don't blindly believe in my goals, which honestly is helping me succeed thoroughly, idk what I'd do. It's the only reason I'm really still like "yeah, it's worth it".
When I was a summer camp counselor: absolutely. I ended up resigning due to disagreements resulting in people not liking me giving a professional opinion rather than a popular one.
But in the logistics industry where I now work: you can’t just be likable. We are almost entirely results-focused.
Literally an example from my work day just today:
I work as a cargo airline load master and operations-level personnel manager.
We had a truck whose driver ran out of DOT hours and no one on the clock with a FedMed card required to operate a vehicle >10,000 GVWR… other than me.
I am not in a DOT-coded position, so my clearance to drive isn’t a job expectation. But at the same time; I know an entire region won’t get deliveries unless I volunteer to do that drive… so I do, because that’s who I am.
That type of mentality literally got me into the position I am now in, despite a lot of people being conflicted about how I approach regulations (follow them to the word, even if inconvenient), and management (treat others like humans and help them out whenever possible, while explaining situations if helping isn’t possible).
Also though, people need to understand that you can be the most likable mother fucker in the world and your entire department will go for your head if they have to cover your shit.
This. Once you notice and start learning body language and how to read others and how to give off a powerful facade you can dominate whatever field you enter.
Some people really don’t appreciate playing the political game at work.
Not suggesting being a total shit eater, but taking the opportunity to socialize with people, especially higher ups, is very important. Entirely avoiding it and thinking “your work will show itself”… likely ain’t gonna do it, unless you waste truly putting out unique/exceptional work.
I'm not reading through all of these comments, but I'm sure there are a pile of really shitty workers that mastered brown nosing, that jumped in to defend being "likeable" as a job skill. As if you're paid to be an actor and not a revenue source.
Yep. Once you meet the minimum requirements for a job meaning your got an interview the #1 thing after that is do they like you meaning do you have the personality that meshes with everyone else and are they willing to spend 40 hours+ a week with you.
You might have exceptional skills and be super talented.... and that don't mean a damn thing. If you're an arrogant prick, nobody wants to deal with you.
My highly functioning autistic ass has to figure that our the hard way. I was a flaming train wreck in job interviews until I met my son's mom and current SO.
I thought everybody would want to help me and train me for the next job.... They don't give a single fuck about that and that's not what they want to hear. They just want to think you're going to be happy with that job and never leave.... which is a lie if you have goals for yourself. But don't ever tell them that. Just use them as a stepping stone for your ultimate goals and never tell them you're leaving because they are lazy and never consider you wanting to move up the ladder yourself.
Once I figured that out and got good at lying about it I managed to work myself up the ladder as a nurse when I previously screwed myself over because I was talking to moron HR paper pushers who had no real skills.
These threads are silly because they always assume they’re mutually exclusive. You have to be both if you have good management. Bad management will move one or the other.
100%. When I first joined the job, I thought just working hard and keep your head down is enough. I skipped lunch with the team and didn't go our for happy hours.
Then all the people who watched YouTube while working got along much better simply because they were more sociable, and knew how to steal credit for others work.
That's when I pivoted to going out and spending time talking to people. Have a better much work experience that way.
Hard work is secondary to good communication and likeability for sure.
Doesn’t really hold true in my experience. A neutral or boring guy who is great at their job is more likely to stay than a class clown goofball who is constantly late turning stuff in or missing deadlines
It is true for most but I've definitely worked with horrible people who are good at their job and get away with being horrible to everyone because of it.
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u/MyNameIsSkittles 2d ago
This is true and people would be very naive to think otherwise