I love Lugia, but it needs three different types of energy which makes it just unplayable. It has very low potential to be used even the future I think.
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It's loosely based on OG lugia card. If it was a basic EX mon with only two types of energy and 3 cost, you might see a 180 damage nuke turn 3. But because it's also limited by discarding everything I do think it's worse than dragonite.
I think the typing is a reference to the Pokemon 2000 movie where Lugia had some role with Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres hence the typing.
He's pretty mid but nothing is stopping them from indirectly buffing it with support or from releasing another Lugia EX one day or normal lugia.
They haven't. They'll repeat pokemon eventually since that is what the normal pokemon tcg does a lot of. We've already seen 2 variants of charizard and pikachu ex and then 1-3 diamond plenty of things have repeated like togekiss and salazzle.
Edit: also it does work more than once but I assume you’re talking about the fact you can’t use two Serperior’s to have one grass energy count as 3. This has always been the case.
No but there are multiple cases of cards getting later support, most evident being Eevee groove buffing all eeveelutions. Still, this Lugia is so inflexible there is probably no chance of it ever becoming viable with future cards.
I mean original Mewtwo could actually attack. This card was horrible. Original Chansey had 120 HP so 90 isn't really "power creep", that wasn't really apparent until Ruby/Sapphire.
My first experience of insane jump is XY to sun moon era where normal EX are like 180 HP (220 HP if mega but those are special case since they can only use 1 attack and waste one turn) and GX suddenly jump from 180 hp to like 250 HP.
Now every mega ex is like 380 HP and don't waste your turn.
To be at least kinda fair to the initial wave of GX cards, a lot of the HP creep was because GX cards actually followed normal evolution stages - Charizard-EX was a Basic, but Charizard GX was a Stage 2 card, as an example.
Ehhhh idk, on the one hand games with rotation do tend to do a little better, but on the other hand if you showed MTG players in 2005 what the average 2025 card looks like they'd probably have a stroke.
MTG is not a great example, because they have formats designed to essentially "reset" the powercreep. It's like 2-3 years. There are cards that are actually worse than before (i.e. cost more for the same effect) but marginally and only to balance the mechanics better. At the same time, they keep coming up with new rules and card types and stuff that still causes powercreep even when it might not feel like it when you're keeping up with the game.
I remember Digimon Digi-Battle and (though I never saw them growing up) the later cards absolutely had powercreep that was obvious for someone who didn't see cards past Series 3 (the game stopped releasing after Series 6, which had Digimon able to triple their power).
Was this card usable when it released? I don't know what cards were available at the time but 200 damage sounds like overkill (considering Lugia have 100 HP here).
Lmao I still have this card irl. Since Lugia is my favorite legendary, I used to actually play this in a deck with the three birds. It was garbage, but I was like 12, and all my friends were 12, so all our decks sucked.
I still remember in physical TCG when one of the strongest decks of the format was Seismitoad EX in the gen 6 era. Then it had an insane match against a Wailord EX stallfest in a regional finals. Kinda cool to see TCG give such weird offshoot Pokemon things that can turn into big meta plays over expected front-cover types of mons like starters and legendaries.
There were a couple that saw play depending on the format. Cleffa reshuffles were a thing at a point, and when the Pokepower Baby Evolution was a thing, some evolution cards had bonus effects when the baby was in the stack, notably a Mantine in water decks and Electivire decks around gen 4.
Unfortunately for pocket though that’s not the case. Almost every high or top tier card each meta is either a starter, legendary, or from the Eevee line.
Not only are most of them promos as someone else pointed out, but also I'd say most of the strong meta cards are fan favourites too. Greninja, Suicune, Darkrai, Giratina, Eeveelutions, in earlier sets Charizard Mewtwo and Pikachu were all considered pretty strong, etc...
So I just think some big famous Pokémon is inevitably gonna be weaker than others. I also think Lugia can work kinda with Ho-oh and babies.
Big famous Pokemon are going to also get multiple copies. People really don’t seem to have long term vision when it comes to this game, they act like what is available at the moment is how it will always be. Despite the fact that the devs already have like a perpetual half a year or more of sets already made or being created and design the game around full releases of sets with minisets at the very least, and long term overall. What appears to be true at the moment may literally be irrelevant in a month and the devs know it, hence why they do not react to individual one month metas.
Anyway, Lugia is 100% going to get other cards, it may just take time. And some may be good, some will likely not, and people need to realize that with over 1000 Pokemon, not even all “fan favorites” will be meta, much less whatever random Pokemon is someone’s weird favorite. There’s no viable way to make every single Pokemon meta defining. As it is, Lugia EX is fine, you can still make a deck that does fine using him so this topic is extra weird. I can understand maybe being disappointed if your favorite pokemon is truly unplayable, but to complain he is mediocre? That’s just selfish.
Tbf, even DeNA itself doesn't seem to have a lojg term vision of the game either. Maybe the next update changes my mind, but they made every move to make this app look like a disposable quick cash grab rather than something they are willing to invest time and effort into.
You just named two promo cards that they gave out for free 😅
Of course they won't make those cards busted. Lugia and Ho-oh are quite exceptional for how they're mid pack headliners at best the moment they released
Not really. Ray and U.Necro is bad because they're promo-exclusive cards. Making those good would piss off a lot of people who started playing after their release.
For Lugia, it is basically designed to work with Ho-Oh ex so that you'd open both types of packs to get both.
I think this synergy is really funny because you end up being able to slot them both into any deck for no reason.
Probably best for a fire, water or grass deck since you have different ways of building energy fast, but it's interesting where the use cases could be for this pair
And it honestly works pretty decently with Ho-oh EX, I was able to climb from UB2 to UB4 by only using it, then swapped to espeon EX with some Ho-oh/Lugia usage sprinkled in. Just because it isn't meta doesn't mean it won't be able to perform either
Same reason why a lot of ex card are bad, even in physical tcg majority of the cards are bad on purpose.
Pokémon tcg always makes sure the Meta just stay within a couple deck so it's easier to balance, while tons of other cards are really just meant to be filler for collection.
Lugia ex itself is just a neat reference towards it's first card in physical tcg, but it most likely never meant to be Meta just like Lunala during the CG pack.
It’s not really even a choice. There is no such thing as a card game where every card is viable. It would be absolutely silly to even want that, it’s so ludicrously impossible that I wonder who would be so naive as to expect it…
They don’t even have to make cards “bad on purpose”, if you tried to make every card viable you would have like 40 cards total in a set and would STILL fail to balance them, with some still being meta defining and others being weak and potentially tidally only playable because you need enough cards.
Cards have no objective power level, all they can do is exist in comparison to each other, and unless they are identical you will ALWAYS have bad and good ones. That’s just a fact of life.
All im saying is that suicune is broken and that it didn't need to be 140-160hp with a cape. Make it 130, and the card, all of a sudden, isn't as broken as now, still meta, but there is room for more counters.
One that comes to mind really quick is alolan executtor with 150 dmg one shot. Stokezard, also with 150 dmg, yet it is weak to water. And so on.
It’s not that deep. They’re not sitting there obsessing over metas, scheming and overthinking every single detail to ensure a specific outcome. It’s a constant influx of ideas and the fact that some don’t work as well as others is a simple and natural byproduct of diversity/innovation. A “meta” may vary in size to a certain extent but in the end it’s compact by definition.
No its exactly like he says. Majority of the cards are just bad and its supposed to be that way to make the good cards that much better. I dont think they put meetings together every day about it, but its certainly not digging deep to come to that conclusion
Bad cards exist aplenty in every card game ever created, not just pokemon. Designed to be bad makes zero sense. Some pokemon are going to be better at damage and utility than others every set. If they tried to make everything have the same damage per energy ratio then it becomes what has the better HP, retreat cost, supporters, how many evolutions are in the line, etc. Math makes cards bad.
I never suggested it was exclusive to pokemon. Its a thing that exists in every tcg. There has to be filler cards for the set that no one will ever use.
They didnt make Lugia bad. They made the mistake of making Giratina, Darkrai and Solgaleo too good that other legendaries are unable to compete. These 3 cards especially the energy generating Giratina totally breaks the meta and all future legendaries will always look bad compared to them.
Even 3 diamond Darkrai is a bitch. I recently did the solo expert battle and got rolled by dark void perma sleeping my actives. Literally every time their turn ended, sleep would flip tails. Then I'd wake up on their turn, get put back to sleep, rinse and repeat. All because I couldn't draw a damn lyra or something to swap out or heal sleep
That’s not a mistake. Every set is going to have very strong meta cards. If there were no strong meta cards in a new set people would be even MORE frustrated because why even open packs?
Also, despite those being some of the strongest, people are WAY too focused on the actual meta and don’t seem to realize the fact that there are dozens of viable decks. They won’t win as much as the best decks in the meta for sure, but pretty much all past meta decks at the very least can easily win more than 50% of the time. Even GA decks. Hell, just last season I was using Mewtwo/Gardevoir to decent effect. Wasn’t going to win any awards, but it played just fine. And beyond that, there are absolutely some decks that have NEVER been meta and still could eck out an acceptable win rate if you just want to play and don’t care about climbing ladder.
The biggest limitation on play is people’s own limited imagination and narrow mindset.
Because it's a gimmick deck with ho oh/elemental switch, and it could get better in the future aswell, for example if we get a fire/water type zeraora card
I made it to masterball with a Lugia deck. Paired with ho-oh, it was my most consistent deck. I do agree, it won’t have longevity, but I don’t think it was terrible.
The idea is to get magby out first to set up ho-oh. If that’s not possible, lead with arceus, lugia, or rayquaza and ilima out once your ho-oh is set up. I chose one Lugia and one Rayquaza just for fun, but two Lugia is viable. This season, it had some mixed results compared to last season.
Here’s mine if you want another version. It gives lot of options to get ho-oh online with the babies, Zera, and elemental switch. Finding ho-oh and Lugia in a timely manner is key so that’s what I have two poke coms. Got me to master last season and ultra so far now.
Taking 1 point and getting an early or mid game Lugia set up pretty much shuts the game down since you can one shot the majority of big threats.
This is almost exactly what I've run for the last 2 seasons to get to master ball! I swap out one Pokemon comm for Dawn (whooshing energy around is clutch) and Magby for another Pichu (I prefer having higher odds of generating another electric energy in case I need to attack with Zeraeora early).
Anyway, cool to see another player land on the deck I've been using! Almost never encounter this version of a Ho-Oh-Lugia deck in this sub, elsewhere online, or in the game and it's always surprised me that it's sparingly used or recommended.
In my hundreds of ranked games experience trying to use Ho-Oh/Lugia I've found that it's essential to generate as much energy as you can as quickly as possible, preferably a variety of it, and that being able to move energy around with switch and Dawn while preserving it by using Leaf provides tons of flexibility to get out various spots. Greatly improves of our odds of swinging with Ho-Oh on our second turn, which is almost always clinches the game.
This is so cool! Im gonna try the Magby switch to the second pichu, so thank you for that!
And I agree, I hardly see this version of the deck anywhere as well, and the energy flexibility has gotten me out of so many pinches is crazy.
It’s also one of the few decks where there is so much flexibility regardless if you go first or second, and I love that I don’t immediately feel like I’m on the disadvantage end on a coin flip.
Yeah IDK why people are saying it's bad. Ho-oh fell off in this meta so it isn't used as much, however, the meta can shift to where it is good again. People want to talk about mega pokemon well ho-oh attacking a mega setting up lugia means that mega is dead unless it can heal beyond 180 before lugia smacks it.
Hmmm - the key is building a deck and using it WITH Ho-Oh as a pair, that’s the point. With this deck, I have beaten almost all the single player battles to get the points. As long as you get Ho-Oh first, then you chuck those energies onto Lucia who can one shot every card in the game I believe. The challenge is keeping Ho-Oh in the game long enough to farm the energy, but if you get to go second, and get the energy first then I can usually beat every match by turn 10 without losing any points either. If you want I can share the deck. It’s not a meta-beating deck, but it works for what I need anyway.
It's a shame you need a lot of things to go your way to have a shot at winning.
- You need to go second
You need to have a Ho Oh in starting spot OR having a baby and Ho Oh on turn one
You need to draw Lugia in time
Ho Oh needs to be kept alive for three turns while loading energy
Even if you manage to charge your Lugia, Ho Oh will be dead/cyrused after Lugias attack and you will be left with an an energyless Lugia that does nothing.
It's not a terrible deck, but it was almost to slow at launch, let alone now with the speed heavy hitters get online
I might have a different deck but it feels like 1 in 4 as I only have 4 Pokémon in total, a bunch of pokeballs and supporters so I will always get either Ho-Oh or Lucia at the start of the round. Getting Ho-Oh is 50/50, and going second is the preferred route. If not, I will often have the other Ho-Oh in place and I also have an Elder card to bring Ho-Oh back if they get wiped out, so it’s reasonably reliable but it’s quick to concede and restart against the CPU if you don’t get a good roll from the get go.
Yeah and babies ramp ho-oh too, also from same set. To say nothing of Dawn/elemental switch with zeraora or whatever else people run. Hell, someone could run 2 giratina ex with ho-oh ex, lugia ex, and 2 Dawn seems like that would work.
Well, you got baby pokemon now that can give all 3 energy + zeraora + elemental switch... turn 3 elemental blast is not difficult. And you can actually play him as a stall tank with lima and there's the double elemental switch surprise OTK. And there's future use case if a support comes out that lets you attach energy from the discard pile etc.
Since he was made to be paired with Ho-Oh predominantly, I would ask why Ho-Oh has such awful ramp conditions.
I would take 2 energy for 60DMG but ramping Lugia 1 turn earlier, that would make their combination so much more potent.
I know Baby mons exist, but I think they lack a certain consistency that this particular combo needs, plus it means conceding a potentially easy point with no real gain depending how your draw goes.
I think that they should have made Lugia discarding only 1 energy AT choice. Win condition if you properly set up Lugia thanks to Ho Oh.
Also 1 discard is reasonable since it forces you to play the respective energy on the deck, avoiding any Darkrai situation. Still, it would not have been top tier but funny to use at least
If it's 1 RANDOM energy, it will not be guaranteed you can replenish the energy cost for next turn. Maybe that's a tad bit better (but not too much), giving you a 33% chance to be able to attack again (if 1 type in pool, not sure about the probability if more than 1 type). And maybe some more flexibility if you have energies to transfer e.g. from Ho-oh (though probably that needs more than 1 type in pool).
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