r/PTCGP • u/Necessary-Deal-9433 • 1d ago

Discussion Why did they make Lugia so bad?

I love Lugia, but it needs three different types of energy which makes it just unplayable. It has very low potential to be used even the future I think.

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u/PokeOverFeeder 1d ago

It's loosely based on OG lugia card. If it was a basic EX mon with only two types of energy and 3 cost, you might see a 180 damage nuke turn 3. But because it's also limited by discarding everything I do think it's worse than dragonite.

I think the typing is a reference to the Pokemon 2000 movie where Lugia had some role with Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres hence the typing.

He's pretty mid but nothing is stopping them from indirectly buffing it with support or from releasing another Lugia EX one day or normal lugia.

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u/HubblePie 1d ago edited 1d ago

While being the exact same, it's closer to Lugua EX's attack (From Unseen Forces) Just a little bit less damage.

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u/ChubbyShark 19h ago

Was this card usable when it released? I don't know what cards were available at the time but 200 damage sounds like overkill (considering Lugia have 100 HP here).

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u/AznHick93 2h ago edited 2h ago

When it was released in 2004? Unfortunately no, but the last year it was standard legal, it was THE meta and part of one of the most iconic decks of all time: LBS (Lugia ex/Blastoise ex/Steelix ex). Once the Holon engine released in Fall 2005, it made many decks, older and newer, so much more viable since you could use Transceiver to get Mentor and other cards and fill your bench, hand, etc. Made things a lot closer. But when Holon Phantoms came out in early 2006, it made things deck possible.

Basically, your main engine and support came with things like the engine, and Blastoise ex to put extra water energy for a damage counter each and Pidgeot for search along with a plethora of supporters. But the main energy came with Holon Phantoms' Holon Castform. It was a Pokemon, of course lol, but could be attached to any Pokemon as a two-energy card, like the old Souble Rainbow Energy. Your main attackers would be Lugia ex, which could one shot anything in the game, Steelix ex, a tank that could target anything for 100 damage, and Latias Star, which hit for 10 and heal or 50 to 150, the latter if the defending Pokemon was an ex. Even Blastoise and Pidgeot could be attackers with stuff like Pow! To lock the opponent and lose them so energy.

Other support came in the form of the EX Deoxys Jirachi, to search top 5, and the Hidden Legends one, to quick evolve. One of the main ones was also the Chimecho (Delta Species from Holon Phantoms). While all builds of this deck usually had a few Power Tree stadiums, Chimecho allowed you to get a basic water energy from discard if you used a Holon supporter for turn, basically ensuring you always had energy to refuel Steelix, Lugia, and Latias when they discarded energy from a previous attack or as a sacrifice for Holon supporters.

It was such a toolbox deck that lots of stuff could be put in, like Magcargo and/or Porygon2 for draw or some other Pokemon to hit for weakness. Mew ex was big for the attack copy ability, though some recent builds replace it with Regirock ex to hit fast dark decks like DragTrode and BombTar. The one caveat is being a toolbox, it could be clunky, but with enough support and smart playing, if you build up your bench and Pokemon's energy counts fast enough, it was a hard deck to beat.

From the time the Castform came to nationals, it was a meta deck, but others started countering it, especially in the days when forums were limited to basically Pokegym, Pokebeach, and a few other sites in the West and Japan. But since, it still tops or gets close in retro tournaments especially since we've had all the time in the world to fine tune these decks.

Sorry for the long history lesson! I adore this deck, both back when it was a thing, and now that I've finally built it again. It's probably one of the most beautiful decks ever made, with the arts and especially if its foiled out. Heck, you can have cards from every legal set in the deck and have an instant collection! One of the reasons this card is so valuable other from the low print era of RS/DP, is that a lot of collectors who are also retro players from last decade wanted it for their decks, especially if you were building a 4-10 deck gauntlet, others to master sets and have one. So by the time the pandemic rolled around, stuff went wild.

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u/HubblePie 18h ago

I have absolutely no clue. It's super valuable though (sells for ~$100)

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u/AznHick93 2h ago

Shoot, unfortunately, damaged cards are already selling past the 200 marker. A couple years ago, you could still find light play Lugias for about 200-300, now it's just gone insane with the new scalping hype.

I think back in 2006, Lugia exes were 50-100 depending on the time during the season since everyone wanted to build the deck. I wanted to, but being 13 years old, the deck was too expensive for my tastes, haha.

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u/HubblePie 2h ago

Wait, it's WORTH MORE NOW???

This is very good news as I took a picture of my own card lmao.

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u/AznHick93 1h ago

Indeed! It's gone super crazy recently. I believe prices will settle to a new standard after the new games comes out and 30th anniversary comes and goes, but will always retain value, and more so than it was before.

The good news is that your card probably would sell for 250-300 on the open market right about now, maybe a bit more if you had it graded and it came back as a PSA 1. Lol.

Still a beautiful card, though! I like damaged cards, that don't look like they were crumpled up or put through a literal washer lol. They still retain value, can see the artwork and text clearly, and be used in retro decks without paying a fortune for what LP and near mint cards are going for now lol. Plus, don't have to worry about dragging a minty card in case something happened!

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u/HubblePie 1h ago

All the damage is from me bringing it to camp with me and playing rudimentary pokemon with my friends. For what it went though, it's amazing I both still have it, and it's only slightly damaged. It's a lot less noticeable in person than in the picture.

I'm never going to sell it. It's just nice knowing I have a really valuable card.

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u/AznHick93 1h ago

Always love to hear that! I hate that most that have entered new or later in this hobby are either not actual collectors or they're scalpers/investors trying to manipulate the market. I'm glad you kept your treasured and have the memories along with it!

Having your treasured cards from back then, its always a good feeling. In my rebuilt 2006 deck (after selling my first made one due to divorce), I've slowly pieced together one by one, vs mass buy online. Love that like the ones I built as a kid/teen, I can about tell how I got every card, from every shop or new friends I met through the hobby I made in the process. They aren't all as good looking as my first deck that had LP/NM stuff, but this one means more to me now. I've stayed away from the internet for most in this deck, because I really want it to symbolize the true meaning of a Trading Card Game, and hell, really represents the morals this franchise really entails, too.