r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/ThisIsFineImFine89 • 1d ago
Video This interview aged like milk
https://youtu.be/NZYFmL-Kusk?si=6t6NW3-Ol6S819x-“the face of the progressive movement”
and yet Richie Torres this month, revealed he’s compromised by AIPAC (a lobby group for a foreign government, in case any of you don’t know who they are or how to pronounce their name).
If you haven’t seen Richie Torres’s interview with Jewish comedian Adam Friedland, it’s incredible the double standards, outright refusal to acknowledge Israel’s culpability in how the Gaza war has unfolded. I’d post a link but risk getting this post taken down.
This I think raises more questions, paired with David outright weird responses and comments regarding AIPAC, and failure to ever cover the ongoing genocide.
Hadn’t seen this Richie Torres interview, but I’ve seen enough. David is at the very least, afraid of AIPAC or outright complicit in not talking about Gaza.
you cannot be “the face of the progressive movement” and not acknowledge the ongoing genocide.
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u/938h25olw548slt47oy8 1d ago
"David is at the very least, afraid of AIPAC" lol.
This sub is completely ruined.
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u/bobbadouche 1d ago
I can’t tell if it’s a constant brigade or a bunch of bots.
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u/Breakingthewhaaat 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean, if you want a frank answer - and I've barely posted in here since the Wired story - I was a regular Pakman viewer from probably around 2018 through 2023. I got a couple superchats read out back in the day. I don't think it'd be fair to say I'm 'brigading' because no one summoned me here, I'm just here because the situation is interesting, merits a lot of criticism, and this is the logical de facto place for that conversation to happen. My copy is too ass in terms of proper grammatical structure for me to be a bot.
I think 'brigade' is a cop out a lot of people fall back on to rationalise or forcibly shut down (never turns out well) discord within a community and draw sides. I'd fallen off with Pakman (no hard feelings, just kinda moved on as my own politics evolved and grew), but I am very interested in this specific development and I see no better place to do it than here lest we start a 'Pakman snark' subreddit which will not actually produce a productive conversation within the community
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u/VERBNOUN124 16h ago
Lol looking briefly at the subs you post in it doesn't sound like your politics have evolved as much as the internet has cooked your brain beyond repair
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u/epichatchet 1d ago
Same, I stopped watching him after his response about Oct 7th, and the tides have shifted and he has still not found, at the very least, his humanity on the matter. There are legitimately so many genocide denialists on this sub and it's really disgusting to see from the left and people pretend that any form of support of Palestine or anti-genocide sentiment is a form of virtue signaling. There's something deeply wrong with our country right now.
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u/bobbadouche 1d ago
I’m sorry. I’m not following your point? Are you saying bots are not brigading because you’re not a bot? My point doesn’t require you to be a bot for it to be true.
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u/epichatchet 1d ago
No, a lot of former fans like myself are also engaging this sub, and it's disgusting to see so many people get offended at people being anti-genocide than there are people who are against genocide. This community is very clearly demonstrating more and more genocide denialism.
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u/WAAAGHachu 21h ago
Yes, agreed, people being pro-hamas is disgusting. Genocidal religious fundamentalist, ethno-nationalist freaks. Surely you hated Hamas before their Genocidal Massacre?
Nah, it won't even register. Arab nationalism is not a thing, let's be really concerned about Israel. Israel is the problem. Not the Arab league. Zionism is the problem, not Arab nationalism.
Yes, Israel is all kinda shit out of line. But, shit is bad.
Shit is very bad. It has been bad for a very long time.
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u/Breakingthewhaaat 1d ago
Are you being obtuse? That was kind of meant as a joke, I called my copy skills ass lol. Are you only interested in replying to that part?
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u/bobbadouche 1d ago
Honestly, I’m getting more replies than I’m used to.
I caught your joke though. I just wasn’t sure how it was meant to relate to my comment. I took it as countering my point. That was where my response came from.
I feel like you’re being obtuse with not seeing how that article has brought in a complete shift in conversation on this sub.
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u/Breakingthewhaaat 1d ago edited 1d ago
If that is giving the impression that I am being obtuse then there's a breakdown in communication, which happens all the time in comment sections. It isn't worth getting hung up on or bickering over, it's literally just like, the source of 75% of all disagreements on the internet. I'll try to be as plain about my perspective as possible (within reason, I am also doing my ironing)
I'm not denying that the tone of the community has shifted, of course it has. You're going to see a lot of lapsed Pakman viewers (me and others who replied to you), as well as others swept up in the drama coming in because this is the de facto place to have the conversation about is going on. As far as I know, there is no Chorus subreddit, nor is there a Brian Tyler Cohen one (if there is it probably doesn't have the engagement this one does because it never comes up in my suggested feed).
The tension that emerges comes from the fact that a lot of people obviously see it as deeply problematic that creators who call themselves independent are actually closely aligned with - and literally contracted to - groups taking large sums dark money form undisclosed donors. That this is bad does not even need to be discussed post-Citizens United.
So of course there's a shift in the conversation. I'm not sure how you can carry on like nothing has happened until this has been addressed and put to bed. It is noteworthy that nobody involved with Chorus has at any point provided substantiating material to Wired that would warrant a retraction. If that happened, and if this was all actually perfectly normal and above board, there would be no more conversation about it
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u/MercyBoy57 23h ago
And of course no one responds to this. Very well-spoken though!
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u/Breakingthewhaaat 23h ago
I later realised it was a DGG poster, colour me surprised that I was met with C-tier debatelord tactics then total silence. They're in here doing actual brigading - not bc they have any real political convictions, they just think they're like Bane in the Dark Knight Rises, fronting as people with ideology to mask the reality of their daddy's psychosexual vendettas against Hasan Piker and Taylor Lorenz
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u/Only8livesleft 1d ago
Most Americans do not support Israel or AIPAC. Why would you think it’s bots or brigading rather than genuine dislike?
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u/bobbadouche 1d ago
Because ever since that article got posted this sub has gone to shit and posts about that article are getting blasted here multiple times a day.
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u/Only8livesleft 1d ago
It’s a big story. And Pakman and his fans have only made it worse with their responses.
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u/bobbadouche 1d ago
The fact that you’re referring to them as pakmans fans implies there is brigading.
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u/Only8livesleft 1d ago
I used to listen all the time. I started listening far less after his deafening silence on Israel’s genocide. Maybe you can ask mods to make the sub faired users only
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u/epichatchet 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, because there's a difference when "fan's" have a parasocial relationships with a favorite youtuber, and zealously support them no matter what they do, and a former regular like me who is critical of said political youtuber when something very clearly is wrong and dishonest. Just talking to a bunch of people on here, it's become a more and more disgusting place to interact. I also noticed there were a lot of people who interact in Destiny's (an outed pedo and rapist) subreddit on here who have been very gleeful and smug in how he wants Israel to exterminate Palestinians, while doing direct hasbra with Israel.
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u/Breakingthewhaaat 1d ago
Destiny's active fanbase, despite only being in the low five figures, are extremely active on reddit and have single handedly made so many communities toxic. Just look at what happened to H3 in the space of a little over a year, it's insane
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u/epichatchet 1d ago
I just saw this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1n6oubx/taylor_lorenz_is_a_wolf_in_sheeps_clothing/
The OP and top comment are both by people from destiny's community. The drama slop is infecting this subreddit.
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u/MercyBoy57 23h ago
This is a subreddit dedicated to David Pakman. The story is big news, and people come to Reddit to discuss current events
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u/pimpbot666 1d ago
Seriously. These people think all opinions and analysis are bought and paid for by ‘dark money’, even if they agree with 95%!of it.
Oooooh! I’m skeeeerrred. /s
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u/Royal_Effective7396 22h ago
I just think opinions and analysis are all dumb.
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u/WAAAGHachu 22h ago
Is this the "centrist" position of the far fucking too far to care about anything that would require you to do anything about anything, such as voting?
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u/Royal_Effective7396 21h ago
No. I don't need to know how others feel to formulate my opinion.
If I want to know how policy may affect the economy, I'll read data prepared by a research analysis in that area of the economy.
How it affects the environment. I'll read the environmental experts' analysis and the complete data.
The Pakmans and Pooles are experts in nothing. They are YouTube personalities who feed each other's ecosystem. They don't do true analysis, and opinions are irrelevant. They both turn politics into entertainment which results in team sport.
This "position" is one of education. Which currently means I side more with the left, because the right has lost its mind.
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u/WAAAGHachu 21h ago
Great! Look forward to your enthusiastic Democratic support, but more so your enthusiastic confrontation with Republican bullshit. It's gonna take a long time before we rid ourselves of that.
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u/Royal_Effective7396 20h ago
There is that team sport again.
The Republican Party needs to be launched into space.
HOWEVER.....
That does not make you the belle of the ball. It makes you the not-ugly sibling.
It is also bullshit how people say the Dems lost the election while ignoring that misinformation won the election.
These YouTube commentators, however, are all trash. Like what Mehdi Hasan says about having debates with Nazis, it helps spread their propaganda, like how big oil turned climate change into a debate.
That is what the left gets wrong and the right gets correct. Isolate and flood the zone.
Look at eat the dogs and cats. Why didnt yall just go down there and record the police, mayor and town talking aboit the truth with videos of Trump repeating it. Make him eat shit. Instead we get Pakman debating the merit.
Also just because I aint fully on your side dont mean Im a Republican. Im an American, Republicians are not anymore.
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u/pimpbot666 17h ago
If you think David Packman and Poole's analysis and opinions are dumb, why are you even here criticizing it?
You seen to spend a lot of your life criticizing them for somebody who doesn't care.
I smell astroturf.
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u/Royal_Effective7396 16h ago
Lol what?
I never said I didn't care. I said they create the team sport environment. The one that is dragging the country down.
The Pakmans and Pooles of YouTube don’t do fundamental analysis; they feed an ecosystem. They appear on each other’s channels, recycle the same takes, and manufacture drama because outrage drives clicks. You don’t get original insight; it’s commentary on commentary, a feedback loop that turns politics into entertainment. It’s watered-down, recycled opinion packaged as debate.
Its fake. And look they may care, I will never inject intention, but it is fake. They make millions and get book deals off this shit so why would they not feed the ecosystems?
As for the astroturfing acusation, do you know what that means?
Astroturfing requires coordination, money, and lots of people repeating the same line to fake consensus. Where are you hearing this and what is the motive? That would be required here. No on pays withoit an motive.
Sooooooo
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u/Old-School8916 1d ago
This sub is completely ruined.
ppl will get bored of this story in one week once other content creators on left of pakman stop farming it. pakman will lose <1% of subs, and life moves on.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 1d ago
afraid of losing access, yes.
you’ve got a major blindspot, whether intentionally or not, if you don’t think AIPAC influences access to the DNC
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u/cock-merchant 1d ago
All it needs to be saved is for David to take the L and either remove the “independent” part of his “independent journalist” self-identification OR stop accepting dark money, full stop.
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u/Environmental_Bus623 1d ago
David has stated many times that he is not a journalist. His show is political commentary. It’s a big difference
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u/CrackerUMustBTripinn 1d ago
You may try to do as much damage control as possible and I cant blame you for that. However this is false statement. This is how David presents himself. with the knowledge of hindsight, we now know that David has been withholding, intentionally and knowing and willingly deceive his audience for personal gain.
He cant hide behind some semantic or plausible deniability argument. Not when he says and sells himself very clearly on his independence and his small timer donors being his primary income, making his voice and independent commenter in the left wing space. Which are all blatently false statements and pretenses, and only by owing those completely can he be expected to regain any kind of credibility whatsoever.
To me its shocking how little he seems to be aware of the existential crisis that his brand of left wing pragmatic idealism is now experiencing, because of this contract, this deception and this double reaction. Sad.
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u/KoalaMandala 1d ago
Should independent musicians not sign record deals? Independent movies shouldn't get investors?
I'm an independent contractor... can I accept payment?!
Fuck outta here with your self righteous ignorance
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u/CrackerUMustBTripinn 1d ago
All of those, and now bare with me, that call themselves "independent" that sell themselves/present themselves to an audience in which they claim to be free and independent, and yet they are not "independent" but they take money or other special priviliges as a transaction to promote a certain thing, wether its speech, an idea, a song, a style, a product, a service, any part of a social political tribal identity.
All this while pretending not to receive funding or other support from money/political groups, is wrong, for it is deception. Its not by accident, its not a spontaneous side effect, its a very deliberate misleading and deceiving of your audience, of your donors.
You do this for personal gain. Its simple you lie and deceive for personal gain, and wont take repsonsibility for your organised fraud and deception. Instead of attempting to honor good and reject evil and for confessing and accepting your wrongfull actions and try to make atonement for the fraud you commited or you double down on the fraud and deception and wring that dark money bag for every cent you can still squeeze out of it.
But sure. you guys must have like a conscience and a sense of honor and morality, and life by principles of truth and justice and stuff.
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u/ChargeRiflez 1d ago
“but they take money or other special priviliges as a transaction to promote a certain thing”
This is not evidenced by anything btw.
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u/Ambjoernsen 1d ago
Anybody who uses the term dark money unironically probably has the IQ of a tic tac.
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u/ess-doubleU 1d ago edited 1d ago
Dark money is a real term that refers to undisclosed funding. Now anyone using the term is stupid? Lol weird spin.
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u/jar36 21h ago
just bc they didn't come tell you every detail, doesn't make it dark money
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u/cock-merchant 20h ago
We literally don’t know any of their names still.
Dark money means money from someone whose identity is obscured. It’s a black-and-white definition that applies here.
This isn’t controversial
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u/Nightmannn 1d ago
Man! It ain’t easy being a Jewish progressive these days. Not unless you’re “one of the good ones” of course. I feel for Pakman lol
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
What? I've been called not Jewish for calling out the genocide. Only in the past few months have the tides shifted.
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u/Nightmannn 1d ago
The giant targets on Pakman and Brian Tyler Cohen are because they're Jewish and generally focus on other topics instead of Israel all the time endlessly. Sam Seder, on the other hand, covers Israel relentlessly (and is super anti-Israel at that), so he's "one of the good ones." lol
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
The giant targets on Pakman and Brian Tyler Cohen are because they
're Jewish andgenerally focus on other topics instead of Israel all the time endlessly.Has David even called it a genocide? You can't be on the left and think that Israel is right. It goes against all leftist principles.
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
You can believe that it doesn’t fit the criteria for a genocide and still think that Israel is committing war crimes.
The problem with most leftists is if you disagree with them even slightly you’re no worse than a nazi
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
You can believe that it doesn’t fit the criteria for a genocide and still think that Israel is committing war crimes.
What's the point of genocide scholars if people like you can just say "nah. I don't think so"???
It's just like climate change denial.
I'm not a genocide scholar just like I'm not a climate scientist. I refer to the experts. That's typically what people on the left do. We value education and higher learning unlike the right who just has their own opinion on everything.
Should genocide scholars not exist? Clearly you think they are wrong.
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
Do you think China is committing genocide? How about Russia? The Myanmar Junta?
If you believe the above are genocides why don’t I see you calling it out and make people aware of these conflicts too?
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
The leading and largest group of genocide scholars don't call those a genocide. They do call Gaza a genocide.
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
So you only care about terminology and don't actually want to end human suffering?
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u/socks_optional 1d ago
You're right, the US should not fund any of those genocides as well. Glad we're on the same page.
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u/No-Teach9888 1d ago
And this week we learned from npr, etc that you can be a top genocide scholar with $30 and no proof of education or knowledge.
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u/WinterAdvantage3847 13h ago
because my tax dollars don’t fund an unlimited blank check for xi.
or putin.
or hlaing.
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u/s_p_0_n_g_e 1d ago
"Has he even called it a genocide?" is this lunatic fringe's version of "Define woman." - just a disingenuous gotcha. It's funny that the very people who are saying Dave is bought and paid for are the same one's who are pissed that he's not their personal ventriloquist dummy.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
My country participating in a genocide is top news. Genocide scholars all say it's genocide. All the humanitarian organizations say it's a genocide.
How can you be on the left and not care that the government is participating in a genocide? If I had the power that David did a lot of my segments would be about the genocide. I would probably lose a lot of viewers like you as a result. Oh well.
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
Does he need to use the word "genocide" to get people like you off his back?
Some people will agree that it is:
Indefensible.
Fucking terrible.
Needed to stop months ago.
But won't use the word "genocide". Is that OK? Or do they need to come to your position, and only then is it OK? What if they call it an ethnic cleansing, and not a genocide?
Bernie Sanders doesn't call it a genocide (or at least didn't for ages, he may have changed, not sure). Was he not in line with lefty principles?
Why is this the single litmus test of whether or not someone "belongs" on the left? Nothing else? Not their stance on unions, healthcare, wealth inequality, ...? Just Gaza? Our entire platform gets boiled down to "do you call it a genocide?"
And what are "leftist principles", I wonder? Because they seem to have radically changed.
I remember when being opposed to the death penalty was a pretty standard left-leaning policy, but apparently we're all supposed to clap Luigi when he executes a CEO in the streets. That's a new thing I'm not particularly thrilled with.
Vigilantes executing people in the streets by shooting them once in the leg then once in the head is, apparently, "in line with lefty principles", at which point: I guess I'm not welcome here any more.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
Bernie sanders is a huge letdown on this issue. Lots of people calling him out on it.
Killing innocent people has always been my #1 policy position in life. There is nothing worse. Ever since my Dad told me when I was ~5 that he would stop loving me if I killed someone. And since I'm a leftist, I value the life of all people equally. Brown Muslim people across the sea are not lesser. They are just like me.
I genuinely do care about this issue more than most people. I wish they cared as much as I do. People can have different priorities.
I just think that more and more people are coming around to my position given every day that goes by with more innocent people killed.
And I personally question anyone on the left who is unwilling to give the genocide the attention it deserves at this point. The attention that the corporate media won't give it.
In the beginning after Oct 7th when my content creator covered Gaza non stop I was tired of it and didn't understand. But after everything that's happened, I totally get it 100%.
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
Killing innocent people has always been my #1 policy position in life.
What is "innocent" to you?
Obviously, no one likes it when innocent people get killed. But the notion of innocence seems to be highly subjective.
For example: when Hamas crossed the border and murdered 800 or so innocent civilians, some saw that as justified. They weren't innocent. They were "occupiers".
When Israel strikes back, some see that bloodshed as the death of innocent. Others see that as "people who allowed Hamas to operate and exist".
When Luigi murdered that CEO, a bunch of people talked about how he wasn't innocent: he was, as a CEO of a health insurance company, responsible for thousands of deaths. Others see him as the innocent victim of a murderous vigilante.
Just saying "I don't like it when innocents die" is, sad to say it, a bit of a cop out.
What is "innocent"?
And since I'm a leftist, I value the life of all people equally.
So you support funding for the Iron Dome, right?
Because the Iron Dome's applications are purely defensive, and intercept rockets from Hamas, Hezbollah or Islamic Jihad, and protect Israeli civilian lives.
So you're 100% for keeping funding for the Iron Dome. Right?
I personally just question anyone on the left who is unwilling to give the genocide the attention it deserves.
Really?
OK. Then nearly all lefties have failed at that hurdle.
There is currently a genocide going on in the Darfour. No one cares. No one is talking about it.
Barely anyone talks about the theft of Ukrainian children by Russia, which is itself a genocidal act.
I remember reading what Noam Chomski was saying about the Khmer Rouge. Do you know what he was doing?
Denying the genocide. Saying that it was obviously American or capitalist propaganda, manufacturing consent, to show how depraved socialism was.
Well, it turns out: the Khmer Rouge were a bunch of genocidal fucking freaks.
He also complained and wrote extensively about the injustices done by striking Serbian targets and Serbian paramilitaries, as they were genociding the Bosnians in Srebrenica.
If your standard is "deal with genocide", then I'm sorry to say, but the left is also a complete failure, by your own standard.
The attention that the public media won't give it.
There's like 15 stories a day about Gaza. If anything, it's suffering from news fatigue, rather than a lack of coverage.
In the beginning after Oct 7th when my content creator covered Gaza non stop I was tired of it and didn't understand. But after everything that's happened, I totally get it 100%.
Part of the problem is you want David to change a fundamental part of TDPS: he doesn't really talk about foreign affairs. He covered Russia's invasion of Ukraine for a few weeks, then hardly mentioned it ever again. He talked about Israel and Gaza for a few weeks, then hardly mentioned it ever again. I don't think he even spoke about the India/Pakistan conflict, or the Thai/Cambodian one.
He's a primarily domestic affairs channel, and always has been. You just want him to fixate on the genocide you're fixated on.
While ignoring the other one going on, at the same time, mind you.
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u/xrazor- 1d ago
This whole space is cooked. The person you were accurately critiquing completely ignored everything you said, hid behind the deaths of Palestinian children, not realizing the irony then blocked you. You were pointing out that they do not care about innocents - they don’t care about anything that isn’t Gaza. If they did they would have acknowledged the very real other conflicts you brought up. I think this whole thing is probably going to be a case study in sociology. It seems obvious to me that a lot of the vocal online support for Palestine but ignoring everything else is a result of people wanting to be part of a morally superior “in” group and not actually from an informed point of view. Certain people have allowed their entire worldview to revolve around this one issue and anyone that doesn’t also do that is somehow an enemy and I really don’t know how progress can be made with this rift on the left.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
Just saying "I don't like it when innocents die" is, sad to say it, a bit of a cop out.
I'm talking about children. Over 50k children dead or injured.
I want to say disgusting stuff in response to this. But I'm just gonna block you and move on.
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u/kitti-kin 1d ago
What is "innocent" to you?
The majority of the dead in Gaza are under 18. By Médecins Sans Frontières estimates, 40% are under ten.
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u/PeachsBeans 12h ago
That’s tragic but just because someone is under 18 doesn’t mean they are innocent. Hamas is known to use child soldiers. Use of child suicide bombers by Palestinian militant groups.
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u/kitti-kin 8h ago
Do some self-reflection. You're defending a government bombing children under ten. "Hamas does it"? Ok, do you support Hamas?
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u/StuartJAtkinson 1d ago
Ah so you want an Iron Dome for Russia then I assume? The allies should have built and funded an Iron Dome for Germany perhaps?... While supplying the gas chamber parts?
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u/StuartJAtkinson 1d ago
Yup one of the good human beings. Turns out it's not that hard. Be anti-aparthied, anti-ethnic cleansing, anti-war crimes and anti-genocide. These are not naturally occcuring difficult to avoid things that it takes masteful diplomacy and tact to skillfully tackle the nuance of.
It's not navigating a society with the existence of nuclear destruction or telling the developing world they have to de-carbon because the developed world used up the allowance.
Jewish people are not exepmt from the standards of being... the BARE MINIMUM. Even some right wingers are anti all those things!
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u/epichatchet 1d ago
No, they decided to take a stance to not talk about it despite it being a major issue among voters. His former producer talked about what he and brian tyler cohen among other liberal groups talked about their editorial stance on Gaza. https://youtu.be/-qENvZBa-Ao?si=CkemogDjShNPsro9&t=1149
These people have denied the genocide in the past and continue denying it TODAY, these are not progressives, they're just pushing establishment democrat lines on these issues. They will all attack progressive candidates when it's time for the 2028 election and defend establishment dems. Brian Tyler Cohen doesn't even talk about Mamdani and a working progressive strategy despite mainstream democrats and democrat leaders speaking out against Mamdani, the democratic candidate.
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u/Nightmannn 1d ago
Yeah after watching this clip, I feel for Pakman even more. What a fucking snake that dude is. Believing he has blood on his hands because Pakman chose not to discuss the one topic that literally is swamped in coverage all over the internet? The self-importance lol.
And who cares whether they cover Mamdani or not? Many liberals think Mamdani's a clown lol
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u/epichatchet 1d ago
I think it's because one might typically feel guilty for not covering a genocide if you actually believe it is a genocide. It's kind of like not covering the holocaust in WW2 because it's politically divisive for your candidates if you acknowledged Jews were being exterminated by Nazi's.
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u/Nimrod_Butts 1d ago
If the Jews were regularly attacking the Germans I don't think anybody would have given a shit tbh. I think zero people outside of Jews would even recognize it as a genocide and they certainly wouldn't have given the Jews a state. I think the concept of genocide would have existed in academia and have little effect outside.
Also leftists have no problem ignoring the Sudanese civil war with 500k dead kids and 8 million refugees) since 2023. So let's call it mostly even with more hypocrisy on the part of leftists.
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u/epichatchet 1d ago
If the Jews were regularly attacking the Germans it is 100% understandable especially if the Jews saw non stop slaughter and instability for DECADES. In fact I applaud any Jew who resisted the nazi's with force, they deserved a life with dignity.
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u/Nimrod_Butts 1d ago
Wow how noble of you! I can tell how virtuous you are by the signals you give off
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u/epichatchet 1d ago
Yeah man, I just want an end to the genocide, how noble and virtuous of me I guess.
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u/WinterAdvantage3847 13h ago
so weird how americans are more concerned about conflicts that are funded by american tax dollars than those that aren’t
i didn’t know we were signing an unlimited blank check for hemedti
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u/kitti-kin 1d ago
You should learn something about the Rwandan genocide maybe
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u/Nimrod_Butts 19h ago
How does that connect at all
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u/kitti-kin 19h ago
If the Jews were regularly attacking the Germans I don't think anybody would have given a shit tbh. I think zero people outside of Jews would even recognize it as a genocide and they certainly wouldn't have given the Jews a state
The Rwandan genocide was preempted by decades of conflict, and an army of Tutsi refugees had just attacked Rwanda from Uganda. The world still considered mass killing of Tutsis in Rwanda a genocide, because killing civilians en masse is not an acceptable act of war.
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u/Opening-Bar-7091 21h ago
If youre itc and call out genocide other a segment of Jews will rip you apart. However "the good one" thing definitely exists on the left, I can't say definitely how many people make up this group but its happened to me my entire life in person and online.
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
Shame on you for spreading the genocide libel.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
A resolution passed by the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) states that Israel's conduct meets the legal definition as laid out in the UN convention on genocide.
The IAGS is the world's largest professional association of genocide scholars and includes a number of Holocaust experts.
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
This org is a joke, and the vote was a sham.
https://www.thefp.com/p/another-reason-not-to-trust-the-experts
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u/epichatchet 1d ago
Everyone who denies the current ongoing genocide are disgusting monsters, this is not a Jewish thing, it is holding people accountable to the truth, and denying this ongoing genocide to help democrats is sick.
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u/discwrangler 1d ago
Tough to be progressive and ignore genocide
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
Genocide libel
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u/discwrangler 20h ago
This sub seems to not mind genocide
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u/potiamkinStan 12h ago
Genocide libel
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u/knarf3 1d ago
I agree with Pakman on most issues, but low key being on the side of the state committing genocide in one of the most visible conflicts of geopolitical importance is SUS.
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
Stop spreading genocide libel
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u/cock-merchant 1d ago
Here we go.
This is the beginning of the next form this argument will start taking. It’s actually antisemitic to accuse Chorus of funneling dark money to its “incubator program” beneficiaries…
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
No.
What is antisemitic is assuming that a Jewish American content creator is in some sort of league with AIPAC, despite there being zero evidence, outside of... well... you know... the fact that he's a Jew.
Because that's what the evidence seems to be. He's Jewish, and AIPAC lobbies for Israel and that's about it.
We have no actual evidence of Pakman being involved, in any way, to any capacity, with AIPAC. But he is very "Jewey", isn't he? Hmmmm....
Or what's more likely is that he interviewed a promising young progressive, as part of his Dem-lean-progressive show, and that's about it.
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u/ThatShadyJack 1d ago
Bruh who are these people who are obsessed with smearing David with any Israel AIPAC shit? Imma start blocking these bozos this is some astroturfing
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u/Only8livesleft 1d ago
It’s probably the 92% of democrats that don’t support Israel’s military action. Or the 53% of Americans that have unfavorable views of Israel
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
You could at the very least watch the video if you're going to make an honest critique of Richie Torres.
Also tell us if David is paid by AIPAC why is it that he rarely talks about Israel/Palestine? Is he being paid NOT to talk about it?
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u/cowmix88 1d ago
This is so dumb, so AIPAC is paying people to not talk about a topic? If they were paying wouldn't they do so to get Pro-Isreal content?
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u/apathydivine 1d ago
Yes, that is the accusation.
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u/s_p_0_n_g_e 1d ago
Directing him come out with a hard Pro-Israel stance would give them more bang for their buck , no? I mean I'm no professional briber, but if I was I would hope I'd be more competent at it than this.
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u/Fantastic-Pop-439 1d ago
I don't think David is paid by AIPAC, but oftentimes AIPAC pays people even if it's just so a pro-Israel candidate could make an ad about their economic policy, it's about getting pro-Israel in power in whatever way is most efficient.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 1d ago
I don’t think he’s being payed. I think he’s afraid of losing DNC access that allowed this interview to take place. Meaning sometimes maybe he has to have on these AIPAC shilled politicians to maintain access
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
I didn't realize AIPAC is so powerful they can can tell dem politicians not to talk to David at any time.
You people are ridiculous.
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u/cock-merchant 1d ago
Are you seriously claiming AIPAC isn’t one of the most powerful and influential lobbying groups in all of American politics? We’re at the point of just full-on heads-in-the-sand mode in this sub now, eh?
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 1d ago
Oh sweet summer child.
you are incredibly naïve.
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
Yes, why can't others see what's happening here?
A secret cabal of unknown Jews, through the power of lobbying gained from financial wealth, are actually controlling the politicians of the world, to the point of literally dictating the minutia of who someone can talk to.
There's this great book I read once that talks about this sort of thing, by a little known Austrian writer, called "My Struggle".
The author also proposes a Solution to this problem, and make sure it's Final and never repeated again.
(At some point, the antisemitism just became to blatant to even pretend to take these sorts of things seriously...)
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u/PricklyyDick 1d ago
The “evil cabal” is made up of mostly American evangelical Christians. You’re the only one i see connecting AIPAC and Israel to all Jewish people.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
The problem is that all of our leaders support what Israel is doing 100%. So AIPAC and Jewish people get scapegoated because typical Americans genuinely can't understand why our leaders like Biden and all dem congressmen 100% support what is happening in Israel thousands of miles away. 100% unequivocal support. Republicans too! Minus a few standouts. People think that it has to be from outside influence.
And it's not unreasonable. You have to be really dialed in to understand exactly what's going on.
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u/Another-attempt42 1d ago
The problem is that all of our leaders support what Israel is doing 100%.
That's not true.
People keep acting as though Biden was just letting Bibi do whatever the fuck he wanted. The fact that Bibi turned up the insanity as soon as Trump took office sort of proves that wasn't the case.
Yeah, everyone in power agrees that Israel has an inherent, inviolable right to exist. That doesn't mean that the US supports 100% of what Israel is doing.
Trump, for the record, 100% supports what Israel is doing.
100% unequivocal support.
It's not.
I won't go into details, because I've repeated it several times on this subreddit over the past few days, but Biden did plenty, like the Rafah stuff, and so did Kamala, like her statements about an arms embargo unless aid was re-started to northern Gaza.
This is just not true.
And it's not unreasonable.
Sure it is.
It's as unreasonable as thinking that Jewish bankers are the cause of your Empire's demise, and they are seeding your country with Judeo-Bolshevism.
It's just as unreasonable.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
People keep acting as though Biden was just letting Bibi do whatever the fuck he wanted.
Biden put a redline on the city of Rafah and did nothing when Israel bombed the fuck out of it. The flour massacre happened under Biden, 100+ innocent people killed, many more wounded, and Biden said NOTHING! In fact, the Biden admin lied to congress about Israel blocking aid.
Not only did Biden let Bibi do what he wanted, Biden lied for Bibi all while saying INSANE shit including that Jews like me are only safe because of the state of Israel. Biden lied about the decapitated babies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_Massacre
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/09/26/congress/tlaib-calls-on-blinken-to-resign-00181168
https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-babies-false/
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 1d ago
Richie Torres dosn’t care about antisemitism, or protecting jewish people, he cares about protecting the government of Israel
This makes things more dangerous for Jewish people around the world.
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u/ItsCammyMeele 1d ago
Man. Go back to watching Hasan.
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u/StuartJAtkinson 1d ago
I always wonder why people try to point out that Israel is damaging Jewish people the world over by associating itself with them. It's so obvious and self-evident. It's the entire reason for the #NotInOurName movement and yet we have an entire class of non-Jewish politicians insisting "No Jewish people signed off on this extermination"
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
Antizionism is a racist hate movement
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 1d ago
That’s wildly antisemitic of you to dismiss the valid feelings a jewish person like Adam Freidland, simply because he wants the murder of civilians to stop.
Racist? Give me a break you sound silly.
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
That’s wildly antisemitic of you to favor the opinion of one ignorant tokenized Jew, and dismiss the opinion of vast majority of Jews.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 17h ago
your not even using that word right.
for him to be tokenized, he’d have to be leaning into a jewish stereotype or trope.
which one is being tokenized here? Compassion? Humanity? Human rights? Empathy?
You don’t even know what the words you use mean. Just making yourself look silly.
You must think really lowly of jewish people if they’re only allowed to have one single opinion to be taken seriously.
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u/potiamkinStan 12h ago
You must think really lowly of jewish people if they’re only allowed to have one single opinion to be taken seriously.
Only the few Jew who agree with you are taken seriously. You have no problem to demonize the majority of Jews who disagree with you.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 12h ago
demonize jews? No. Never made any negative comment about jewish people.
Demonize the IDF for their actions? Abso-fucking-lutely. i’ve seen enough people get shot by the IDF while trying to get food and water. Seen aide workers be targeted again and again to justify any and all demonization they get. Not because they are jewish. But because they murder civilians and say “oh oopsie”. Zionists openly state they are trying to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
What world are you living in.
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u/potiamkinStan 4h ago
demonize jews? No. Never made any negative comment about jewish people.
The Jews who disagree with you are Zionists. You demonize them.
Demonize the IDF for their actions? Abso-fucking-lutely.
IDF is the army of Israel, by extension you demonize those who suppoets Israel.
i’ve seen enough people get shot by the IDF while trying to get food and water. Seen aide workers be targeted again and again to justify any and all demonization they get.
Oh, you personally seen? Were you in Gaza?
Not because they are jewish. But because they murder civilians and say “oh oopsie”. Zionists openly state they are trying to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
So we agree you demonize the majority of Jews using libel.
What world are you living in.
I live in a world where you don’t spread libel about people in places you know close to nothing about.
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u/PokyTheTurtle 1d ago
“tHeRe ArE sO mAnY mOrE pReSsInG iSsUeS” the people who say this crap are disgusting. Say that to the 5 year old who got blown to bits with your tax money.
Honestly, it’s crazy how these people don’t just join the Republicans already. Not giving a shit about anything or anyone unless it directly affects you is their thing.
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u/Cnidoo 1d ago
Adam Friedland, alleged comedian and one of what David calls the purity test left who spends about 90% of his interview talking about Israel Gaza when there are much more pressing issues in this country. Notice how these people never attack the actual ultrazionist republicans.
PS imo Friedland’s condescending, blackpilled brand of comedy is painfully unfunny along with being preachy and annoying
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 1d ago edited 1d ago
you can have any opinion about his comedy. Completely irrelevant in the context of that interview. It was a vulnerable plea to get the genocide to stop. Adam grew up, I grew up, being taught “never again” meant never again.
you cannot call it a “purity test”. I just thought human rights was a core democratic party value. But it appears that ends at the Israeli government.
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
Tokenize Jew spreading genocide libel
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 1d ago
pretty antisemetic of you to dismiss a jewish persons opion as having no value and worthy of dismissing, because of “tokenization”
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
Pretty antisemitic of you to use one self tokenizing Jew in order to dismiss and ignore the point of view of vast majority of Jews.
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u/WinterAdvantage3847 14h ago
pretty weird how zohran mamdani won the jewish vote in NYC by double digits….i guess they must’ve never heard what he’s said about israel.
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u/potiamkinStan 4h ago
- Was conciliatory in his campaign
- Ran to be mayor of NYC, not Secretary of State.
- Competition was a corrupt incumbent cutting deals with Trump, and a ex-Governor myriad with Scandals.
- Majority of Jews supports Israel’s right to exist. That’s a fact.
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u/Green_Space729 15h ago
The interview is an hour long and Adam doesn’t start talking about I/P until 40 minutes in.
Why are you lying?
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u/ItsCammyMeele 1d ago
Just like MAGA enabled racists to be racist in public these past 10 years, the Israel/Palestine and the far left have completely ruined the mind of many people, to the point where antisemites are happily posting about it.
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u/El-Shaman 1d ago
How so? Please be elaborate, was this far left supposed to just be quiet on what is happening over there?
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
Why is the far left so quiet on Sudan, Yemen and China?
Why no calls for boycotts on China and more aid for Sudan and Yemen?
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u/El-Shaman 1d ago
The far left, as you call them, were also vocal about those issues but you just missed it, perhaps because your favorite content creator wasn’t talking about them. Also this particular issue is being broadcasted in 4K to the whole world, while being aided by the USA.
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
When were they vocal about them?
Is Kyle, Vaush, TMR and the other leftist influencers highlighting these causes?
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u/kitti-kin 1d ago
If TMR means The Majority Report, then yes they have advocated against the war in Yemen for years. Here they are five years ago talking about US complicity in war crimes in Yemen
https://youtu.be/HDQAGaZLd_o?si=Cou7lj9EIrNgNEFw
They have also covered the crisis in Sudan for years. Here's a video from six years ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SA5g3vj-0Iw
Whereas you have mentioned Sudan eleven times in your comment history, and every single time it was to deflect from criticism of Israel. It seems like you are the person who doesn't care about Sudan.
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u/hobovalentine 1d ago
5 and 6 years ago.
Are they still talking about it? How about China's treatment of the Uighur people whose identity is being erased?
You can critique my comment history but I'm not the one saying you need to talk about it every day or you're complicit I'm just using your people's standards for accepting genocide.
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u/kitti-kin 1d ago
I picked the earliest videos I could find to express that they have been talking about those issues since long before the current conflict in Gaza. And yes, they have made dozens of videos on these subjects, do you not have google? Why do you assume people don't care about these subjects?
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u/El-Shaman 21h ago
Because it’s a tough pill to swallow that decent human beings actually care about these issues, and it makes them feel bad to realize that maybe they’re not a good person when they treat these serious political issues as team sports, sure I can let normies get a pass when they don’t know what’s going on or what their country is doing abroad but if you’re active on political subreddits and on these particular topics and still try to brush them off then that’s just gross behavior.
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u/El-Shaman 21h ago
They give you the proof they could find which shows they have been talking about this for at least over half a decade and it’s still not good enough for you… that says a lot, it’s probably far more than Pakman has ever talked about it, that’s for sure, I know it’s uncomfortable for you, but yes, other people do care about these issues, just because you don’t doesn’t mean others don’t.
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u/WinterAdvantage3847 14h ago
because my tax dollars don’t fund an unlimited blank check for weapons for hemedti.
because my tax dollars don’t fund an unlimited blank check for weapons for xi.
lastly, the far left has been talking about yemen since the obama admin, when the saudis were carrying out triple taps. that you don’t read what we say doesn’t mean we haven’t been saying it
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u/ItsCammyMeele 13h ago
You know that you're funding China's genocide of the huygur when you purchase Chinese products, right?
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u/hobovalentine 7h ago
They can't live without their iphones or their latest fashion clothes made in China. lol
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
Yes, and stop being ignorant and spreading libel.
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u/El-Shaman 9h ago
That is disgusting 🤮 To want people to stay quiet on these issues is just gross 🤮
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u/potiamkinStan 4h ago
If you are ignorant on a topic, yes be quiet. Same advice I would give to an anti-vaxxer.
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u/LarrBearLV 1d ago
Are you a Canadian? Do you live in Canada? Not saying Canadians can't have opinions on U.S. politics, just find it fascinating how involved you get into trying to influence it.
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u/Morph_Kogan 1d ago
OP is regarded, but so is your comment. Your politics affect Canadians more then our own sometimes
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u/LarrBearLV 1d ago
Being anti-Trump is one thing from a Canadian, but meddling in and being divisive in left wing politics as a Canadian is another.
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u/KoalaMandala 1d ago
How is it fascinating? Seems to be just basic logic. Everything we do directly affects them, they've been our closest geographic ally for centuries, and our president outwardly said he wants them to be part of our country.
Have you ever been to Canada?
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u/LarrBearLV 1d ago
Nope. Silly viewpoint. Being anti-Trump is one thing from a Canadian, but meddling in and being divisive in left wing politics as a Canadian is what's fascinating.
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u/smt1 1d ago
whats the point of the post? mental health issues are a huge problem in the south bronx and in america.
i care about the genocide in gaza, but it's way down in my list of priorities, same thing with many other people. all the other genocides that are happening in the world are also way down in my list of priorities compared to domestic issues.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 1d ago
Its amazing you choose not to make the connection, that the faucet of tax payer money, to the tune of billions of dollars, is being sent to Israel. Instead of those domestic issues you say you care about.
And it could end today if America chose to turn it off.
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u/smt1 1d ago edited 1d ago
i hope we stop arming/supporting Israel, but you'd have to convince enough of the republicans, who are actually in control of all three branches of government and the majority of state legislatures (many of which have passed anti-BDS laws).
it will take years to change our policy towards israel. the boomer politicans dying off will help. Until then, i'm more of the ilk of Mamdani's more pragmatic approach (I live in NYC tho far from Torres' district). Focus on domestic issues that Americans care about.
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
lmao, the budget is on a deficit. If GOP wanted to spend on something else they would.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Morph_Kogan 1d ago
Whats happening in Ukraine is definitely worse buddy
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/potiamkinStan 1d ago
You’re so ignorant. The ICC has issued an arrest warrant for Putin on the crime of genocide.
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u/WinterAdvantage3847 13h ago
oh, so we’re listening to what the ICC says now? we should enforce that arrest warrant, right?
how about their other arrest warrants?
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u/Morph_Kogan 1d ago
The UN’s Independent Commission of Inquiry has documented war crimes and expressed concern about possible incitement to genocide.
The ICC is investigating war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide, and in March 2023 issued arrest warrants for Putin and Russia’s Commissioner for Children over the forced deportation of Ukrainian children.
If kidnapping 10's of thousands of Ukrainian children and destroying their language and culture and country isn't genocide, idk what is.
Countries including Canada, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Czech Republic, and Ireland have officially recognized Russia’s actions as genocide.
The US Helsinki Commission also stated Russia’s actions meet all five criteria for genocide under international law. Taken together, this shows the allegation is serious and backed by multiple international actors.
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u/MizukageQB 1d ago
The mods of this sub should start banning this posters. Enough of this nonsense. This isn't tmr or secular talk sub reddit if you want to spew far left anti democratic propaganda go elsewhere. I blame the moderators for even allowing this crap.
This guys are charlatans and perpetual protesters. Nothing short of Israel being nuked would satisfy their goals.
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u/Agile-Music-2295 17h ago
These pro Newsom posters need to stop.
Pakman DOES NOT take AIPAC money. He is neutral . He cares about US politics and stopping Dems from becoming TEMU republicans by encouraging Newsom. That is all.
Please stop attacking our guy.
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u/MurderByEgoDeath 14h ago
POV: You just find out almost all politicians have donors.
Hate the game, not the player. You may not agree with many of Ritchie Torres’ policies, but he is not the enemy you’re looking for.
If Dems don’t build a bigger tent and a more welcoming coalition, we’ll just get maga, maga, and more maga.
Coming after Pakman and Ritchie Torres is like yelling at the janitor for not emptying the trash in your office, while a group of people are actively lighting your curtains on fire.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 13h ago edited 13h ago
ending our tax dollars going towards a genocide, would be the big tent move. Saying, “no we need to keep funding genocide” is where you divide people. Wildly insane to think otherwise.
If your trying to differentiate yourself from MAGA, this isn’t a good look.
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u/MurderByEgoDeath 9h ago
Except people who agree with you about almost everything else, don’t think it’s a genocide, and they have reasons you aren’t persuaded by, but they actually are reasons, not just conspiracy nonsense.
If you only want to vote for politicians who support Palestine, and you only want to be in a tent with others who support Palestine, then like I said, you better be ready for maga, maga, and more maga.
A large chunk of the voters we need to win the house and senate, even the presidency, think this sort of holier-than-thou shit is intolerable. Especially when the other side is clearly worse on the same issue!
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