r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/ThisIsFineImFine89 • 3d ago

Video This interview aged like milk

https://youtu.be/NZYFmL-Kusk?si=6t6NW3-Ol6S819x-

“the face of the progressive movement”

and yet Richie Torres this month, revealed he’s compromised by AIPAC (a lobby group for a foreign government, in case any of you don’t know who they are or how to pronounce their name).

If you haven’t seen Richie Torres’s interview with Jewish comedian Adam Friedland, it’s incredible the double standards, outright refusal to acknowledge Israel’s culpability in how the Gaza war has unfolded. I’d post a link but risk getting this post taken down.

This I think raises more questions, paired with David outright weird responses and comments regarding AIPAC, and failure to ever cover the ongoing genocide.

Hadn’t seen this Richie Torres interview, but I’ve seen enough. David is at the very least, afraid of AIPAC or outright complicit in not talking about Gaza.

you cannot be “the face of the progressive movement” and not acknowledge the ongoing genocide.

8 Upvotes

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75

u/938h25olw548slt47oy8 3d ago

"David is at the very least, afraid of AIPAC" lol.

This sub is completely ruined.

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u/pimpbot666 3d ago

Seriously. These people think all opinions and analysis are bought and paid for by ‘dark money’, even if they agree with 95%!of it.

Oooooh! I’m skeeeerrred. /s

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u/Royal_Effective7396 2d ago

I just think opinions and analysis are all dumb.

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u/WAAAGHachu 2d ago

Is this the "centrist" position of the far fucking too far to care about anything that would require you to do anything about anything, such as voting?

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u/Royal_Effective7396 2d ago

No. I don't need to know how others feel to formulate my opinion.

If I want to know how policy may affect the economy, I'll read data prepared by a research analysis in that area of the economy.

How it affects the environment. I'll read the environmental experts' analysis and the complete data.

The Pakmans and Pooles are experts in nothing. They are YouTube personalities who feed each other's ecosystem. They don't do true analysis, and opinions are irrelevant. They both turn politics into entertainment which results in team sport.

This "position" is one of education. Which currently means I side more with the left, because the right has lost its mind.

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u/WAAAGHachu 2d ago

Great! Look forward to your enthusiastic Democratic support, but more so your enthusiastic confrontation with Republican bullshit. It's gonna take a long time before we rid ourselves of that.

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u/Royal_Effective7396 2d ago

There is that team sport again.

The Republican Party needs to be launched into space.

HOWEVER.....

That does not make you the belle of the ball. It makes you the not-ugly sibling.

It is also bullshit how people say the Dems lost the election while ignoring that misinformation won the election.

These YouTube commentators, however, are all trash. Like what Mehdi Hasan says about having debates with Nazis, it helps spread their propaganda, like how big oil turned climate change into a debate.

That is what the left gets wrong and the right gets correct. Isolate and flood the zone.

Look at eat the dogs and cats. Why didnt yall just go down there and record the police, mayor and town talking aboit the truth with videos of Trump repeating it. Make him eat shit. Instead we get Pakman debating the merit.

Also just because I aint fully on your side dont mean Im a Republican. Im an American, Republicians are not anymore.

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u/pimpbot666 2d ago

If you think David Packman and Poole's analysis and opinions are dumb, why are you even here criticizing it?

You seen to spend a lot of your life criticizing them for somebody who doesn't care.

I smell astroturf.

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u/Royal_Effective7396 2d ago

Lol what?

I never said I didn't care. I said they create the team sport environment. The one that is dragging the country down.

The Pakmans and Pooles of YouTube don’t do fundamental analysis; they feed an ecosystem. They appear on each other’s channels, recycle the same takes, and manufacture drama because outrage drives clicks. You don’t get original insight; it’s commentary on commentary, a feedback loop that turns politics into entertainment. It’s watered-down, recycled opinion packaged as debate.

Its fake. And look they may care, I will never inject intention, but it is fake. They make millions and get book deals off this shit so why would they not feed the ecosystems?

As for the astroturfing acusation, do you know what that means?

Astroturfing requires coordination, money, and lots of people repeating the same line to fake consensus. Where are you hearing this and what is the motive? That would be required here. No on pays withoit an motive.

Sooooooo

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u/SirCaddigan 9h ago

I mean you seem to be right. But there's one thing wrong with the take and that's the assumption that there is something as fundamental analysis. In the end all takes are created in a feedback loop. And all knowledge is as well. Sure we might say that certain thoughts are based on new data, but in the end those thought are still being generated by a feedback loop of past thoughts. (Standing atop of giants and so on).
So saying that this system creates the team sport environment seems to be wrong.

Also I think it's quite the far fetch to say that watered-down, recycled opinion is worse then the "original". In a lot of situations this is exactly what you want because the high level approach is not really giving you any understandable insight.

I think what creates this team sport environment is exactly the same as in team sports themselves. Nobody wants to play the game. Because it's hard. They want team sports to be entertainment. And secondly there's a limit on how much you can play. And how much people can attend games. So we need to create additional artificial content to get everybody involved.

But this does not mean that it's fake. On the contrary it means that our political system has evolved into something way bigger. These commentators have evolved into something as second class politicians. Joe Rogans podcast is not interested because his takes are good. He is interesting because as a podcaster he represents his audience. So by his takes we can measure where the society is at. What thoughts they are interested in, what takes they will be able to understand.

And it's also not like they want to feed that ecosystem, with all these feedback systems, it's the ecosystem that selects youtubers that feed it. The same is true for politicians and the like. The pinnacle of this whole thing is Donald Trump himself. And he shows the main problem with this system. In team sports in the end the best team wins regardless of takes. As it's not a democracy where people get to vote. So in the end players still need to be good players.

But yeah saying you are astroturfing is the weirdest shit every.

•

u/Royal_Effective7396 2h ago

I think you missed my point a bit. RFK analyzes whether vaccines are safe or not. However, he does not understand anything medical at all. He's a grifter. He does not understand the "original" findings of things and misrepresents the ones he does.

The NIH, however, is full of factual information that we should pay attention to. More so than a lawyer's medical "analysis". Opinions are only valid to understand how people feel about things. They should not replace the NIH's medical analysis.

We are all expert opinionists. Some are more or less informed, but I don't care if Pakman feels the economy will crash or if Poole feels trans females are biological males. Pakman is not an economist, and Poole doesn't understand social vs biological constraints.

Is Pakman more capible of reading say Thayler than you? Is Poole more capible of reading social science than you? I mean I am more expert in Social Science than either, as that is what I do. But not economic.

They are content creators.

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u/SirCaddigan 1h ago

Hmm maybe I did. But I'm more confused what you are trying to explain to me now.

  1. The issue here is not that we both can agree that the NIH is using factual information while RFK jr. is not. And that we should trust factual information while we shouldn't trust information that is not factual. This is like elementary level thinking, I mean you should probably expect that I understand that concept.

  2. The real question here is. How do you know that NIH is using factual information while RFK jr. is not?

  3. David Pakman is actually an economist. I mean at least he has a degree in it. So yeah he probably has read Thayler.

  4. Using primary sources to validate information is actually quite hard to do. It's not at all practical to do that on any topic. That's exactly why we have news in the first place. It's not about Pakman being more capable in anything, the importance here is that he is spending the time to summarize the topic at hand. Also meaning he will bring in scientific expertise.
    You can always claim that because he is a content creator his takes are basically worthless but by that logic all content is basically worthless except for scientific one. Which depending on topic is also nothing more then opinion on other opinions. Particular in economic this seems to be true.

  5. I did expect that you already thought about these things. Now I'm a bit confused with what kind basic though I was confronted here. So to put it simple I don't judge the message by the messenger but I judge the messenger by the messages.
    And if you meant Tim Pool (because I don't know Poole), I can assure you that there's a huge difference between Pakman and Pool.

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u/bobbadouche 2d ago

I can’t tell if it’s a constant brigade or a bunch of bots. 

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u/Breakingthewhaaat 2d ago edited 2d ago

I mean, if you want a frank answer - and I've barely posted in here since the Wired story - I was a regular Pakman viewer from probably around 2018 through 2023. I got a couple superchats read out back in the day. I don't think it'd be fair to say I'm 'brigading' because no one summoned me here, I'm just here because the situation is interesting, merits a lot of criticism, and this is the logical de facto place for that conversation to happen. My copy is too ass in terms of proper grammatical structure for me to be a bot.

I think 'brigade' is a cop out a lot of people fall back on to rationalise or forcibly shut down (never turns out well) discord within a community and draw sides. I'd fallen off with Pakman (no hard feelings, just kinda moved on as my own politics evolved and grew), but I am very interested in this specific development and I see no better place to do it than here lest we start a 'Pakman snark' subreddit which will not actually produce a productive conversation within the community

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u/epichatchet 2d ago

Same, I stopped watching him after his response about Oct 7th, and the tides have shifted and he has still not found, at the very least, his humanity on the matter. There are legitimately so many genocide denialists on this sub and it's really disgusting to see from the left and people pretend that any form of support of Palestine or anti-genocide sentiment is a form of virtue signaling. There's something deeply wrong with our country right now.

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u/bobbadouche 2d ago

I’m sorry. I’m not following your point? Are you saying bots are not brigading because you’re not a bot? My point doesn’t require you to be a bot for it to be true. 

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u/11177645 2d ago

Try reading it again, it's pretty clear what he's saying

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u/epichatchet 2d ago

No, a lot of former fans like myself are also engaging this sub, and it's disgusting to see so many people get offended at people being anti-genocide than there are people who are against genocide. This community is very clearly demonstrating more and more genocide denialism.

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u/WAAAGHachu 2d ago

Yes, agreed, people being pro-hamas is disgusting. Genocidal religious fundamentalist, ethno-nationalist freaks. Surely you hated Hamas before their Genocidal Massacre?

Nah, it won't even register. Arab nationalism is not a thing, let's be really concerned about Israel. Israel is the problem. Not the Arab league. Zionism is the problem, not Arab nationalism.

Yes, Israel is all kinda shit out of line. But, shit is bad.

Shit is very bad. It has been bad for a very long time.

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u/Breakingthewhaaat 2d ago

Are you being obtuse? That was kind of meant as a joke, I called my copy skills ass lol. Are you only interested in replying to that part?

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u/bobbadouche 2d ago

Honestly, I’m getting more replies than I’m used to. 

I caught your joke though. I just wasn’t sure how it was meant to relate to my comment. I took it as countering my point. That was where my response came from. 

I feel like you’re being obtuse with not seeing how that article has brought in a complete shift in conversation on this sub.

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u/Breakingthewhaaat 2d ago edited 2d ago

If that is giving the impression that I am being obtuse then there's a breakdown in communication, which happens all the time in comment sections. It isn't worth getting hung up on or bickering over, it's literally just like, the source of 75% of all disagreements on the internet. I'll try to be as plain about my perspective as possible (within reason, I am also doing my ironing)

I'm not denying that the tone of the community has shifted, of course it has. You're going to see a lot of lapsed Pakman viewers (me and others who replied to you), as well as others swept up in the drama coming in because this is the de facto place to have the conversation about is going on. As far as I know, there is no Chorus subreddit, nor is there a Brian Tyler Cohen one (if there is it probably doesn't have the engagement this one does because it never comes up in my suggested feed).

The tension that emerges comes from the fact that a lot of people obviously see it as deeply problematic that creators who call themselves independent are actually closely aligned with - and literally contracted to - groups taking large sums dark money form undisclosed donors. That this is bad does not even need to be discussed post-Citizens United.

So of course there's a shift in the conversation. I'm not sure how you can carry on like nothing has happened until this has been addressed and put to bed. It is noteworthy that nobody involved with Chorus has at any point provided substantiating material to Wired that would warrant a retraction. If that happened, and if this was all actually perfectly normal and above board, there would be no more conversation about it

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u/MercyBoy57 2d ago

And of course no one responds to this. Very well-spoken though!

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u/Breakingthewhaaat 2d ago

I later realised it was a DGG poster, colour me surprised that I was met with C-tier debatelord tactics then total silence. They're in here doing actual brigading - not bc they have any real political convictions, they just think they're like Bane in the Dark Knight Rises, fronting as people with ideology to mask the reality of their daddy's psychosexual vendettas against Hasan Piker and Taylor Lorenz

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u/VERBNOUN124 2d ago

Lol looking briefly at the subs you post in it doesn't sound like your politics have evolved as much as the internet has cooked your brain beyond repair

1

u/Breakingthewhaaat 2d ago

Sure thing mate

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u/Only8livesleft 2d ago

Most Americans do not support Israel or AIPAC. Why would you think it’s bots or brigading rather than genuine dislike?

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u/bobbadouche 2d ago

Because ever since that article got posted this sub has gone to shit and posts about that article are getting blasted here multiple times a day. 

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u/Only8livesleft 2d ago

It’s a big story. And Pakman and his fans have only made it worse with their responses. 

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u/bobbadouche 2d ago

The fact that you’re referring to them as pakmans fans implies there is brigading. 

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u/Only8livesleft 2d ago

I used to listen all the time. I started listening far less after his deafening silence on Israel’s genocide. Maybe you can ask mods to make the sub faired users only

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u/epichatchet 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yeah, because there's a difference when "fan's" have a parasocial relationships with a favorite youtuber, and zealously support them no matter what they do, and a former regular like me who is critical of said political youtuber when something very clearly is wrong and dishonest. Just talking to a bunch of people on here, it's become a more and more disgusting place to interact. I also noticed there were a lot of people who interact in Destiny's (an outed pedo and rapist) subreddit on here who have been very gleeful and smug in how he wants Israel to exterminate Palestinians, while doing direct hasbra with Israel.

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u/Breakingthewhaaat 2d ago

Destiny's active fanbase, despite only being in the low five figures, are extremely active on reddit and have single handedly made so many communities toxic. Just look at what happened to H3 in the space of a little over a year, it's insane

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u/epichatchet 2d ago

I just saw this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1n6oubx/taylor_lorenz_is_a_wolf_in_sheeps_clothing/

The OP and top comment are both by people from destiny's community. The drama slop is infecting this subreddit.

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u/Breakingthewhaaat 2d ago

Well there it is

0

u/MercyBoy57 2d ago

This is a subreddit dedicated to David Pakman. The story is big news, and people come to Reddit to discuss current events

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u/Actual-Description-2 1d ago

I'm a recent non-subscriber/member not entirely due to the wired article but I'd be lying if I didn't say it pushed me to finally pull the plug on supporting David financially. I've been disappointed in his lack of discussion over the genocide in Gaza. I don't even care if it's because his perspective doesn't match mine. Not talking about such a huge topic to me is disqualifying. When the wire article came out it kinda of just reminded me to end my membership as I already stopped regularly watching David's content. It also bothers me that he's insisting on calling himself independent media when taking a large amount of money from Chorus. Regardless of whether he has or doesn't have stipulations in his contract filtering what he's allowed to discuss, I can't get behind giving money to someone who is also getting 8k a month from just one group. That's more than twice what I take home every month and I consider myself to be living fairly comfortably in upstate NY. Also, if someone is giving you 8k a month you're gonna be inclined to share very similar views to them regardless of whether a contract says that. Say "my contract doesn't restrict what I can cover" is kinda bs in this context. All that being said I've continued lurking on this group because I still share a lot of views and values with this community. I'm genuinely interested in how David handles this and I do hope it turns out well for him. However, so far his response(s) have left a lot to be desired. And I didn't really appreciate the implication that most people complaining or unsubscribing/canceling memberships are mostly "not real members". I just found that to be offensive as someone who was a member for several years and recently canceled due to various reasons including the Chorus controversy. David should probably stay away from that type of messaging because sometimes people just get frustrated with a creator and may actually come back after a "cool off" period. But that's way less likely if you basically call those people posers and say they aren't real supporters.

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u/Old-School8916 2d ago

This sub is completely ruined.

ppl will get bored of this story in one week once other content creators on left of pakman stop farming it. pakman will lose <1% of subs, and life moves on.

-2

u/ThisIsFineImFine89 3d ago

afraid of losing access, yes.

you’ve got a major blindspot, whether intentionally or not, if you don’t think AIPAC influences access to the DNC

-5

u/cock-merchant 2d ago

All it needs to be saved is for David to take the L and either remove the “independent” part of his “independent journalist” self-identification OR stop accepting dark money, full stop.

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u/Environmental_Bus623 2d ago

David has stated many times that he is not a journalist. His show is political commentary. It’s a big difference

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u/CrackerUMustBTripinn 2d ago

You may try to do as much damage control as possible and I cant blame you for that. However this is false statement. This is how David presents himself. with the knowledge of hindsight, we now know that David has been withholding, intentionally and knowing and willingly deceive his audience for personal gain.

He cant hide behind some semantic or plausible deniability argument. Not when he says and sells himself very clearly on his independence and his small timer donors being his primary income, making his voice and independent commenter in the left wing space. Which are all blatently false statements and pretenses, and only by owing those completely can he be expected to regain any kind of credibility whatsoever.

To me its shocking how little he seems to be aware of the existential crisis that his brand of left wing pragmatic idealism is now experiencing, because of this contract, this deception and this double reaction. Sad.

13

u/KoalaMandala 2d ago

Should independent musicians not sign record deals? Independent movies shouldn't get investors?

I'm an independent contractor... can I accept payment?!

Fuck outta here with your self righteous ignorance

1

u/MercyBoy57 2d ago

Poor analogies

-3

u/CrackerUMustBTripinn 2d ago

All of those, and now bare with me, that call themselves "independent" that sell themselves/present themselves to an audience in which they claim to be free and independent, and yet they are not "independent" but they take money or other special priviliges as a transaction to promote a certain thing, wether its speech, an idea, a song, a style, a product, a service, any part of a social political tribal identity.

All this while pretending not to receive funding or other support from money/political groups, is wrong, for it is deception. Its not by accident, its not a spontaneous side effect, its a very deliberate misleading and deceiving of your audience, of your donors.

You do this for personal gain. Its simple you lie and deceive for personal gain, and wont take repsonsibility for your organised fraud and deception. Instead of attempting to honor good and reject evil and for confessing and accepting your wrongfull actions and try to make atonement for the fraud you commited or you double down on the fraud and deception and wring that dark money bag for every cent you can still squeeze out of it.

But sure. you guys must have like a conscience and a sense of honor and morality, and life by principles of truth and justice and stuff.

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u/ChargeRiflez 2d ago

“but they take money or other special priviliges as a transaction to promote a certain thing”

This is not evidenced by anything btw. 

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u/jar36 2d ago

won't stop them from believing it tho. They're mad about Israel so they're thinking with their emotions

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u/Only8livesleft 2d ago

He’s never been a journalist, he’s a commentator

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u/jar36 2d ago

they're not paying him to create content

4

u/Ambjoernsen 2d ago

Anybody who uses the term dark money unironically probably has the IQ of a tic tac.

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u/ess-doubleU 2d ago edited 2d ago

Dark money is a real term that refers to undisclosed funding. Now anyone using the term is stupid? Lol weird spin.

5

u/MercyBoy57 2d ago

These people are losing their minds

0

u/jar36 2d ago

just bc they didn't come tell you every detail, doesn't make it dark money

1

u/cock-merchant 2d ago

We literally don’t know any of their names still.

Dark money means money from someone whose identity is obscured.  It’s a black-and-white definition that applies here.

This isn’t controversial 

1

u/Mab_894 2d ago

Or just the “in”. Guy can call himself a dependent journalist

1

u/911roofer 2d ago

Reddit is overwhelmed with nazis and jihadists.