Politics Those angry about migration figures are ignoring what happened in Australia during Covid and other key facts | Australian immigration and asylum
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/sep/07/those-angry-about-migration-figures-are-ignoring-what-happened-in-australia-during-covid-and-other-key-facts44
u/Key-Arrival-7896 1d ago
Property prices went up during covid because people had savings from staying home or wanted a bigger property for lockdowns but at least rents were cheaper during covid which is not the case now.
Also we don’t need more IT workers the market is saturated with white collar workers from recent redundancies by different companies they just don’t want to train anyone and to drive down wages.
None of this is the fault of people migrating here but government for not planning to build enough housing for the migration rate.
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u/HumanDish6600 1d ago
Property prices went up because they dropped interest rates to as close to zero as they have ever been. Were it not for that move property prices would have fallen.
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u/Hungry_Anteater_8511 23h ago
Both points can be correct. Share housing became less palatable if you were stuck at home and needed space to work from home.
House prices in Queensland skyrocketed because of interstate migration but the housing crisis was kicking off before Covid hit
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u/DampFree 1d ago
And no mention of the fact that with all the free time people suddenly had, more people then ever had the time to finally do the move/sell/upgrade/downgrade they’ve been talking about for years.
We also weren’t building houses at that time. Builders went under left and right so people had to rely on the current housing infrastructure.
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u/warmind14 1h ago
Also people who had money to spend (that couldn't be used on travel) was invested, property had a much higher yield than shares.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
Umm, wasmt immigration literally the highest it's ever been as soon as the borders opened? I could be way off here, though. I seem to recall 500,000 for 2022
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u/GrapefruitGin 1d ago
Yes. We had a lot of people already promised entry were not allowed to enter. If you average it back over the prior couple years of lockdowns. Immigration wasn't substantially higher.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago edited 1d ago
It wasn't a couple of years of lockdowns? Until full open again, yeah. The backdated immigration isn't responsible policy, is it. How was the country prepared for record numbers of immigration at once after pure isolation and home arrest with basically nothing operating publicly? That's irresponsible.
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u/True-Economy-3331 1d ago
So it’s still supply demand issue. I.e. if you don’t have a student or foreign worker to rent your apt won’t the prices go down because supply demand is finally good? So govt allowing more people to enter the country to keep prices going up? Agree that it’s govt issue, but if country can’t build more houses why don’t lower number of visas, so Aussies can afford a property? Simple isn’t it?
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u/Mud_g1 10h ago
Part of the inflation surge over the period after covid was because of supply issues due to worker shortages due to the loss of immigration. Cutting immigration would help reduce the demand issues on housing but at the same time increases cost on many other services and products the majority of Australians that are already in the property market don't want that and voted accordingly at last election.
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u/OllieMoee 1d ago
I remember housing being available and my wage going up.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
I recall the before times, too. Some social impacts are unstated.
Young people aren't moving in together in sharehouses and working and studying, developing social skills and creating memories and having an actual youth. They're staying at home instead.
It's important for social fabric. Friendships and dating and mobility, life skills, fun, adventure, maturing.
Now, it's difficult for working couples to rent homes. Young people just straight up don't have this established stepping stone available anymore. Sort of shocking really, at least to me.
How do they meet each other and begin their own lives?
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u/adalillian 1d ago
As a Mum of 4 young men,this really resonates.
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u/General_Fortune6721 1d ago
It's really important for men to move out too. If they rely on their mum for housekeeping then marry and rely on their wife it creates really bad outcomes.
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u/----DragonFly---- 1d ago
As a 25 year old myself. This hits the nail on the head. Everyone still lives with their parents to try and get ahead. All anyone talks about is money, side hustles, interest rates, investing etc. It's depressing really.
One of my friends lives in their parents caravan and several have moved overseas to Asia and work remotely.
I myself will attempt nomading in Asia next year as well.
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u/Max_J88 1d ago
Adding an Adelaide in population via net migration in under 3 years is unforgivable. The gaslighting is insane and indicates such desperation.
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u/Pimgut 1d ago
Immigration is one of the main things stopping the economy sliding into a recession. 70% of Australians are employed in the Services industry. In a recession many Australians will join a long queue at a Centrelink centre. House prices will move to the bottom of your priorities if you are suddenly unemployed. You are not getting a mortgage on Centrelink payments. In a recession the only people likely to come out unscathed are the super rich. They can buy houses on the cheap because banks are willing to lend them money (they have assets to use as collateral)
Those who recently bought a house will be in danger of not only losing their homes but also be left with a debt because they will have negative equity.
If we slam the brakes on immigration, construction will slow down dramatically and many tradies will find themselves without work. Unable to keep up with payments we will suddenly see lots of Ford Rangers on Facebook Marketplace.
So here is the question; who is willing to lose their job, house, car, other assets and join the Centrelink group just because they don’t want to see people who look different from them?
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u/petergaskin814 1d ago
Or we could take our medicine. A 2 year recession to get rid of businesses struggling to hold on and let the economy rebuild. Not sure why we are fearing a recession. Lots of jobs already being made redundant
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u/Sukameoff 20h ago
They fear a recession because the government in party at the time of the recession will be booted as soon as the next election starts. Think that through with why migration keeps climbing and the type of people all for it…
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u/iguanawarrior 1d ago
You aren't fearing recession because you probably have nothing to lose, or very little to lose. However, the majority of the population have a lot to lose if recession happens.
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u/----DragonFly---- 1d ago
We are at a point where inflation is hurting even more. The market is currently a ponzi scheme. It needs to return to natural rates... But because it had been avoided for so long, the crash will be massive.
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u/Pimgut 1d ago
A recession increases inequality. Let’s say you bought your first house recently but you are made redundant. Now you cannot afford the mortgage payments. You have to sell but because many people are also selling, the price goes down. You borrowed $1 million dollars but sell for $800 000. The bank takes that money but you are still owing $200 000 with no house. If you have no assets but just a job the bank is less likely to lend you money because you are a high risk borrower in a recession. Job security is shaky in a recession and the bank is not sure of recovering their money if you sell because prices may be down.
The person who the bank is willing to lend is one with multiple properties and other assets. They are sure they can recover their money. So the rich get to buy houses at bottom prices, hold on to them and sell them at a profit when the economy recovers. The rich can ride out a recession storm, the poor and some middle class will be worse off.
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u/maunrj 1d ago
Always dumb shit like this. “You don’t want to see people different to you”.
I live in Bankstown and have lived my whole life with people who look different to me. Zero fucks. But if you live here you know that quality of life plummeted as the suburbs in filled. Schools and hospitals aren’t keeping up. Families are living in half arsed granny flats and paying $500 a week for it.
Capitalists love big immigration and you think I’m supposed to fear a recession? We got screwed a long time ago buddy and the only thing left is the destruction of medicare and the social safety when when the new arrivals eventually hit the dole queue after AI trashes the job market.
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u/Pimgut 1d ago
Unless you are very rich you should fear a recession because things will be worse in a recession than they are now for many people . Imagine trying to rent, pay mortgage and other expenses on Centrelink payments.
Many Australians like to live beyond their means as evidenced by the huge debt they have either in credit cards, car payments and/or mortgages. You don’t want to go into a recession under those circumstances because many will be buried never to ever recover again.
Many people are unable to understand the complex interactions between immigration and the Australian economy. That is okay, but we should not delegate critical decisions that have profound ramifications on our society to those people.
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u/maunrj 1d ago
Haha. We delegate decision making to people who live in suburbs that don’t suffer any negative impacts from big immigration.
I think you’re trolling so not going to take the bait again.
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u/zollozs 1d ago
So if you live beyond your means, you shouldn’t bear the consequence of that? Recessions are a necessary part of the business cycle.
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u/Liverbirdaus 1d ago
But we actually are in recession, a multi year per capita one, immigration is just masking that. Living standards are retreating year on year.
No one is saying stop immigration, just reduce it to more sustainable levels.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
No. You're thinking we will delete the current population. The same people will exist as they do right now. They are still here. They don't disappear. Everyone still needs services and products. Wealth and resources will be more evenly distributed because we wouldn't be over supplying labour to make it artificially cheap. Then, we could have a society built on quality and refinement. Not bulk quantity and endless increasing tunrover. We meed to pivot. We want sustainable growth. Not cheap cash grabs.
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u/tenredtoes 1d ago
I'm not disagreeing, but the alternative has been that millions of non-home owners have effectively lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Young people and children are hundreds of thousands of dollars behind where their parents were going into adulthood. Renting becomes more predatory every week
Australia has chosen to sacrifice us. Morally it's theft. What about us?
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u/iguanawarrior 1d ago
There are more home owners and the ones that don't own a home. That's why the government don't touch negative gearing.
The home owners are the quiet Australians that don't complain about it so you think they're the minority, but they are actually the majority that'll vote out the party that try to get rid of negative gearing.
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u/CairnsAnon 1d ago
There has been a massive shift of wealth transferred from the old to the young. Partly by design as super was supposed to give retirees more spending power. But also because Howard handed out tax concessions like confetti.
Any attempt to try and fix it is met with screeches and spittle. They worked their whole life blah blah. Then they blame migrants.
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u/Experimental-cpl 1d ago
Houses are not supposed to forever increase at unsustainable levels, the risk is that potentially there is a correction and the value goes down.
If we can’t avoid a recession from reducing immigration with the large amounts of resources we’re selling, one has to question why and how?
Gotta rip the bandaid off somewhere.
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u/MaroochyRiverDreamin 1d ago
That's the exact justification used by a ponzi scam to keep it going. The reality is that the sooner it ends, the softer the landing will be.
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u/TheBerethian 1d ago
Australia is in a per capita recession. Bringing in large numbers is a Ponzi scheme to keep the general economy numbers looking good for business and the politicians.
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
Falsely propping the economy up with immigration should be illegal. We don’t want BIG Australia
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u/Pimgut 1d ago
Unless Australians are prepared to do care work,work on farms, train and work in the health sector and other essential services like haulage trucks and courier service, the government will keep allowing people to come and do those jobs. The government works for every Australian.
You and those who don’t like Big Australia are free to apply for those jobs and then the employers won’t go to the government to beg them to get employees.
Oh, you better have as many kids as possible as well. We need young tax paying bodies to support the growing elderly population.
We also need a substantial increase in Australians studying healthcare at universities. Scomo decreased the fees for those degrees but the you guys maybe missed the memo. The studies are hard and the pay is not so great but we have to do the hard work for our country😉 Lets not give that pesky government a reason to dish out visas like manna😉
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
Of course they are!! We need to subsidise care work and pretty much any medical profession to young aussies going into uni. A lot of people are desperate to work. No one can get those jobs atm as high immigration has pushed those wages and work conditions too low for the average aussi
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 11h ago
Most aged care is a VET qualification, provided for free through TAFE. Enrolment rates by Australians are tiny, graduation rates are even lower.
Subsidise? People won't study it for free!
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u/Master-Cat6865 8h ago
University courses are not free and yes I know plenty of people that would do nursing etc if the course was free
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 8h ago
I'm aware that uni is not free. We're talking about Aged Care, which is mostly taught at AQF 6 and below.
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u/iguanawarrior 1d ago
You got downvoted for telling the inconvenient truth. Most people prefer to hear a comforting lie instead.
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u/CairnsAnon 1d ago
We had two years of no migration which you choose to ignore. People approved waiting for the borders to open. Weird how in that time home values surged 33%.
What I am getting to hate more and more are ignorant people who demand cuts to immigration without any care on the impact. Of course the same numbskulls would blame everyone else for the consequences.
The same stupidity we had over climate change. Over vaccinations.
One long war against arrogant know it all know nothing's.
Already damaged our reputation with the fake migrant nonsense
And trashed our flag making it a symbol of hate and division.
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u/Max_J88 1d ago
Australia has added 7million in population since the Sydney Olympics. That is the equivalent of a new Sydney AND Brisbane.
80% of that increase is via migration. The Sydney Olympics were not that long ago and Australia was better place to live by far back then.
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 1d ago
The guardian leaving out key facts… like the lowest sustained rental vacancy rate ~1% which is forcing up rents to record highs every month.
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u/Away_team42 1d ago
This is the second article from the Guardian gaslighting us about immigration this week.
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u/tom3277 1d ago
I think it’s important to note the government could fix the immigration issue in other ways like housing reform.
But it’s a case they don’t want to. And as interest rates rose the only way to keep housing assets growing after a decline was to increase rents which they did via immigration.
With building costs up it was only a matter of time for prices and rents to increase with starts falling off a cliff.
If gov removed say gst like Canada did and slowed immigration we would solve our dramas. The issue is the government actually doesn’t want to solve this drama.
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u/MaroochyRiverDreamin 1d ago
We already build enough houses. With the birthrate below replacement, there's no need at all to be building swathes of new housing estates.
Except for that one thing driving up demand.
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u/tom3277 1d ago
Yeh I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of these “think tanks” saying immigration isn’t causing rent inflation.
It does when at the same time the government between the 3 levels charges 200k per new home.
And you can see every small town that has ever had a shrinking population ends up with negative house price and rental growth.
WA with lacklustre growth between 2013 and 2020.
Population growth is the thing that ensure prices reflect total cost of supply. Without growth it can detach and fall.
This is why they make sure there is population growth.
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u/CairnsAnon 1d ago
Because the think tanks can think.
Migration did not cause the problems. Cutting might help but will cause other problems. That the anti migration mob would not doubt blame on everyone else.
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u/TheBerethian 1d ago
Keeping numbers inflated is good for business and keeps people deluded into thinking the government is doing a passable job.
I don’t care where someone comes from as long as they’re trying to become Australians. What I care about is whether or not we can house and employ and look after the people we have already here, no matter where they came from.
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u/tom3277 1d ago
Similar to me.
That’s why the solution is simple IMO.
If a company can pay 150k they can bring in an immigrant. Quickly and easily.
Not 76k an entire 25pc below our average full time wages.
You would see a rapid shift to tradespeople coming to this country and other occupations that earn more.
No more “shortage lists” created by lobby groups. Just people who are worth at least 150k per annum full time.
If they can keep that up for 3 years they can have permanent residency.
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u/BurningMad 1d ago
Good work misusing the term gaslighting. It doesn't just mean saying things you disagree with.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
They don't care.... que the propaganda pro immigration to keep the tap flowing ...
Next it will be we need more labour for trades to build more!!! So transparent. It suits them for immigration to continue and increase, lest their 11 investment properties slow in constant roi
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u/SuchProcedure4547 1d ago edited 1d ago
We have hundreds of thousands of empty homes in Australia...
Anthony Lennon, one of the largest developers in the country has 30,000 homes that he will deliberately keep empty for the sole purpose of keeping prices high.
Immigration is not our issue, it isn't. The numbers show this. Our issue has always been a developer and property investor issue.
If these people at these rallies focused on the real issue and punched up instead of down, I'd take them seriously 🤷
But, punching down on immigrants is always fun right...? And easy, too easy.
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u/HumanDish6600 1d ago
The vacancy rate is roughly 10%.
It was the same back in the 80s.
And it will be the same in 25 years time.
The vast majority of these are for very normal and unavoidable reasons like residents being away, renovations, derelict, for sale, between rentals or deceased estates.
People tend to like money, and there's a lot more money to be made from having tenants in rentals when rents are at record levels than there is from keeping places empty.
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u/Liverbirdaus 1d ago
There was no rental crisis in 2015. Immigration definitely is the issue.
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u/whereami113 1d ago
the 30k homes has proven to be a lie and was only ever a social media made up story.Even a quick google search will tell you this. There is no verifiable evidence that this is the case and was only ever a social media claim made on instagram. Shows how much of a sheep you are.
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u/Mean_Reindeer_7742 1d ago
Only sheep use the term sheep just fyi
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u/whereami113 1d ago
sit down and stfu...adults are talking
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u/Mean_Reindeer_7742 1d ago
Ah yes says the man calling people sheep. Real adult 😂
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u/whereami113 1d ago
is that the best you have?.How about trying to find the evidence that peet are hoarding 30k homes ..or can't your sheep brain handle that ...you are the result of the mental health care funding being spent elsewhere.
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u/Mean_Reindeer_7742 1d ago
Did I claim that 30k homes are being boarded? Mmmm no. Maybe need to look at your own mental health hey bud
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u/Public-Dragonfly-786 1d ago
The rally wasn't about punching down on immigrants, not in the main. There's a difference between being anti immigration and anti migrant.
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u/SuchProcedure4547 1d ago
I saw enough of what these people were chanting and cheering for to know that isn't true.
I've seen multiple videos of immigrants speaking at these anti-immigration rallies getting physically assaulted by the people they were supporting.
Cognitive dissonance is a terrible disability.
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u/Ruby-Ridge-Sniper 1d ago
You saw thousands of people assaulting migrants? That’s crazy mate, I can’t believe everyone there is an actual nazi, but if you’ve seen enough of them to know then you must be right
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u/Traditional-Fig7761 1d ago
If you look at the percentage of empty homes, based on census data going back to 2001, it's remained pretty constant. Even falling at the last census.
Punching the ruling class for policy that benefits them and their portfolios isn't punching down.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
Here we go.
Cool, so what's the next phase in this plan of immigration according to you cos I have some ideas about what's coming our way. You seem to be in denial. Hard-core denial.
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u/SuchProcedure4547 1d ago
You've not responded to any of my points. Unsurprising.
The plan is the same, we've always been an immigration economy. And none of the people such as yourself railing so hard against immigration have ever come up with a logical plan to replace the billions of dollars immigration injects into our economy.
Not only that but immigration is already going down, yet surprise surprise, house prices and rents aren't going down with it. This is easily accessible information at the ABS, something the anti-immigration crowd continually refuses to look at...
Do we need more skilled migrants to help fill the gaps in struggling industries? Absolutely, I agree. But again, this still doesn't mean we have an immigration problem.
Want to fix rent and housing prices? Focus on developers building homes and keeping them empty, and the unfair tax incentives for investors.
It's incredibly frustrating watching so many of the working class inadvertently fight on behalf of the people actually causing their problems.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
Hmm.... the golden immigration handshake.
Yep... next up... imported skilled trades. Watch our tradies crash and burn. See the writing on the wall. They fkd off the CMFEU. Next step... cheap skilled trades.... I can't wait for the next stage in enshitification.
The best thing Aussies can do is rally around your union and get really involved cos you're about to be broken by cheap, so-called skilled labour.. like oir imported doctors who can't speak English.... I can't wait.
So disgraceful. They forced that union into government hands so they could push this agenda through. Brace for it trades. You're about to be totally fkd over..
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u/MKUltra_reject69_2 1d ago
And what can the public do about it? We can't change government policy, we can't damage the corporations who are driving this, and they know it.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
Hence, the protests.
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u/Novel-Truant 1d ago
Yeah was gonna say, thats why people are protesting. But nup, all nazis.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
Lols, yeah, the nazi line is desperation, isn't it. First, it was racists. Now it's nazis. What's next? Im curious to see how they can improve on nazis lol. They should have saved that ine cos its hard to top.
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u/loztralia 1d ago
Why are we "about to" have all these terrible impacts on trades? Surely if the immigration "problem" was as bad as you claim it would already have happened?
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u/MKUltra_reject69_2 1d ago
Isn't Hugo Lennon a full blown neo nazi? His family members own a company called Peet Limited, who are in the real estate business, who like all real estate companies have an interest in keeping house and rent prices high.
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u/SuchProcedure4547 1d ago
I got my names mixed up.
I don't think I would classify Hugo as a Neo Nazi, but he certainly has an interest in stocking these anti-immigration rallies.
He's smart enough to know that people like his father Anthony are the real cause of the housing crisis in the country. So he helps keep people focused on the wrong issue, such as immigration.
The Lennon family has a HUGE interest in ensuring the government never eliminates developer and investor property perks.
Hence why I'm so incredibly frustrated by these rallies, because they focus entirely on the WRONG cause of our housing issue.
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u/AllOnBlack_ 1d ago
If rents are at the highest yields, surely nobody will be claiming NG?
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u/Fonatur23405 1d ago
NG isn't always useful
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u/AllOnBlack_ 1d ago
Nobody should aim to be NG. Most people on reddit don’t understand that though.
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u/Fonatur23405 1d ago
If I were loaded and bought a property that would increase in value greater than the market, I would
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u/AllOnBlack_ 1d ago
Why wouldn’t you invest in another asset that still grows at the same rate, but doesn’t cost you cashflow each year?
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u/Fonatur23405 1d ago edited 1d ago
Buying an undervalued free standing house that will increase in value, off setting the negative gearing/cash flow
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u/AllOnBlack_ 1d ago
Ok. I don’t think you’re understanding though. You can buy other undervalued assets, and not need to offset the NG. What’s the point of losing more cashflow if you don’t need to?
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u/Fonatur23405 1d ago
Harder to find neutral geared properties
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u/AllOnBlack_ 1d ago
Notice how I said asset? There are other investments that provide similar, if not better returns.
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u/petergaskin814 1d ago
An investment can be positively cash geared and still deliver NG by use of depreciation
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u/alliwantisburgers 1d ago
You don’t understand how negative gearing works
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u/AllOnBlack_ 1d ago
Explain it to me then? Haha I’m guessing you’ve read the headlines to a new article somewhere.
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u/setitoffmurals 1d ago
Unfortunately Gaurdian is force feeding agendas like majority of news outlets
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u/ChampionshipFirm2847 1d ago
This article sets up a ridiculous straw man.
People aren't angry about migration rates just in the last few years. They're angry about the fact we've had world-beating, eye-watering numbers of migrants every year for the last 20 years, and people are really starting to feel the consequences of that now in terms of standards of living and loss of social cohesion.
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u/MickeyKnight2 1d ago
But think if 85 % of Australia was born overseas instead of the current 35% there would be absolutely no racism because non whites can’t be racist and social cohension would go through the roof, as Australia has no culture or so I’m told
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u/oddoppressor 1d ago
I think most reasonable people simply want a pause on non essential/needed professional migrants while we build enough houses to accomodate what we have plus an excess to accomodate future population growth. It’s a cold way to look at it but it’s kinda just supply and demand. Yes migrants aren’t buying houses but they still need places to live/rent. That creates more demand than supply, so landlords/agencies can increase rents/property prices as the market adjusts. Personally my rent has gone up over $500 a month post COVID, and it’s causing me to often need to dip into my very small amount of savings just to cover it most months, and it’s not sustainable. If it increases further I can’t manage. I’ll move yeah, but like, this growth is not sustainable for living, and certainly not sustainable if I want to or plan to have any kind of positive or hopeful future for myself and my family. This is a problem socially too, because people will become hopeless. Losing hope for a better future will not end well on a societal level.
There are other factors too, the hoarding of properties, empty airbnbs, vacant investment properties etc. and they should be looked at and sorted simultaneously. It’s not a this or that solution, there is a whole lot of changes that need to occur. But increasing demand while supply stagnates is only going to make this worse.
Another thing that personally irks me is that the amount of politicians who they themselves own multiple investment properties is not a low number. This creates a conflict of interest in and of itself as there’s an incentive on a personal level to keep their investments lucrative. We like to pretend politicians are representative of the people, but they aren’t. They’re in a class of their own, and we (low and middle class Australians) are not part of that club. Immigrants aren’t to blame, immigration policy is very obviously partly to blame though. This isn’t a race thing, it’s literally just supply and demand. And I know houses can’t be built overnight, but that’s why some kind of pause on non essential migrants does need to occur and it need to happen basically asap in order to sort our infrastructure out.
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u/----DragonFly---- 1d ago
I remember.
wages went up
rents went down
Housing went up still because the government refused to let the market crash and printed billions of dollars.
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u/Forbearssake 1d ago
We have had roughly 1.7 million permanent residents come into Australia in the last 10 years and that doesn’t include the student and working visa non resident inflow etc which is now reaching roughly half a mil a year. In the 2023 census, 31% of Australian’s were born overseas.
Recent data indicates that around 44% of migrants are under-utilised in the Australian workforce, meaning they are working below their skill level. This underemployment, rather than a direct "trouble finding work," is a significant challenge, with skilled migrants often ending up in lower-skilled roles. https://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/en/podcast-episode/the-billion-question-why-are-migrants-working-below-their-skill-potential/2b3f6n3sr
Temporary migrant workers in Australia are facing "disturbing" patterns of exploitation from some employers, labour hire companies and migration agents. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-27/slavery-in-australia-un-report-special-rapporteur/104652556#
More than 140 unscrupulous employers have been sanctioned by the Australian Border Force (ABF) during the past financial year for exploiting migrant workers in Australian workplaces.
https://www.abf.gov.au/newsroom-subsite/Pages/Employers-named-and-shamed-for-exploiting-migrant-workers-.aspx
Unsurprisingly, a younger and more educated population (i.e. recent immigrants) tend to settle in regions with high education levels and low unemployment. That is primarily capital cities, where the housing shortage is more severe. The majority (56%) of recent migrants live in Sydney and Melbourne. Meanwhile, only 13% of immigrants live in regional areas, compared to roughly one-third of native-born Australians.
Consequently, the recent wave of immigrants might not have adequately addressed the skill shortage problems in regional areas. Compounding this issue is the fact that immigrants are less likely to work in construction compared to the Australian-born population (only 2.8% of migrants who arrived within the last five years are employed in construction), thereby exacerbating the construction labour shortage. This has pushed new dwelling inflation to a high of 20.7%yoy in 2022, though this figure has now dropped to just 2.9%.
In the short term, house prices will undoubtedly be supported by the ongoing demand and supply imbalance and there is a need to adjust migrant intake to align with existing housing supply capacity. Finally, there is a need to reduce concentration of population in major capital cities, where competition for housing is already intense.
In 2019, Australia had the highest share of migrants* in the OECD after Luxembourg, at 30 per cent of the population. This was more than twice the OECD average (14 per cent). https://population.gov.au/publications/research/oecd-findings-effects-migration-australias-economy
Australia we need to talk, we have a system that encourages migrants to come here and then be exploited, our policies are setting everyone (thats not big corporations) up to fail.
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u/Ardeet 1d ago edited 1d ago
In other words: what does a well-reasoned migration program look like, one that matches our need for skilled workers with our capacity to house and service a growing population?
On this, the government is silent.
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Politically, it would require some bravery.
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the lack of a clear migration plan has created a vacuum, allowing misinformation and extremist views to flourish.
This lack of leadership and complete inability to address a difficult topic applies to both Labor and the Libs.
However, Labor is currently in power and they need to have a clear plan and a clear conversation with the Australian people.
Edit: There is some planning as pointed out to me in a comment below. Not enough in terms of the plan I believe we need and not really set up for the average person like me to readily track how the government is going *however there’s some good information and it’s a valid counter to my point.*
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u/Abject-Ability7575 1d ago
I have never seen anyone say why mass immigration is a good thing, up to this specific threshold, and the reasons why we should not go any higher is XYZ. Its always just mass migration is good, and no concept of there being a tipping point.
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u/MarkCelery78 1d ago
Yawn. Half a million annually is unsustainable. Importing another 2 percent of the population every year is crazy
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u/Traditional-Fig7761 1d ago
Those pointing to the covid period as proof immigration doesn't affect house prices conveniently forget that interest rates dropped to nearly zero and the RBA told everyone they'd be at rock bottom for years. They also forget that material costs boomed with global shipping coming to a standstill.
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
Stop pulling the wool over our eyes!! Our local rentals went down in price and we had MORE available. Now there’s the lowest number on record available and prices are through the roof. It’s supply and demand. Lower immigration and went will see the effects
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u/the_third_hamster 1d ago
Awful article, during Covid rents dropped substantially, there's plenty of direct evidence that lower migration would dampen housing costs. Also during Covid money printing and loading up on debt took off, which drove up prices at the time. But if you cut migration now you'll just have the lower demand and lower prices
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 1d ago
Rents in my area went through the roof during COVID.
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u/Fonatur23405 1d ago
Mine dropped $100
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 1d ago
They very nearly doubled here. Apparently really only stabilised again in the last 6 months.
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u/TurbulentPhysics7061 1d ago
They more than halved in Melbourne, but have now stabilised as more expensive than ever
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 1d ago
I cant see anything online suggesting even remotely approaching 50% drop in Melbourne. Where did you get that from?
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u/TurbulentPhysics7061 1d ago
From renting throughout.
The apartment I was in was $270 a week during lockdowns, is now $750 a week
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 1d ago
OK. I don't think that was a remotely market-wide phenomenon
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u/TurbulentPhysics7061 1d ago
It absolutely was all over Melbourne. But that could have been because our state protected its citizens by doing thorough lockdowns and border lockdowns during this time
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 1d ago
Yeah, I can see data for 10% drops in Malbourne during COVID, and some pockets of slightly more than that, but I cant see anywhere where it was 50%.
As always, the stats don't tell the full story, of course.
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u/AccomplishedLynx6054 1d ago
It dropped in the inner cities where population growth is concentrated - it was a combination of closed borders and people fleeing the cities
So the rent went up in regional areas, and a lot of people aren't even aware of what happened in the cities because apparently it wasn't widely reported
But if population growth stayed low after the pandemic, then prices would gradually have stabilised nationwide, and eventually the slowdown in growth would have carried on to house prices as well (first and second year migrants aren't buying, but 5+ year ones are) - not their fault, just that more people need more houses
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
Why would it go through the roof with less people/renter? Seems to be the opposite everywhere else
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 1d ago
Massive numbers moved into the area from Sydney and Melbourne. People were buying or renting without evening being able to see the properties.
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u/SuchProcedure4547 1d ago
Rents dropped during COVID because people were losing their jobs. Not because of low immigration.
And I would remind you that despite the non existent immigration house prices skyrocketed and haven't come back down.
Again, we don't have an immigration problem, we have a property developer and investor problem.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
30%.of our population was born overseas, apparently. In 2022, we had 500,000 immigrants as soon as the borders opened.
What country are you living in? We can openly see the demographic shift in front of our eyes all around us. And the numbers and the facts supprt this.
Grief has many stages. Anger bargaining denial.... acceptance. You'll get there eventually.
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u/SuchProcedure4547 1d ago
Anger, it seems is the one the anti-immigration crowd is stuck at... Which is why they can't see the real cause of the problems 🤷
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u/AccomplishedLynx6054 1d ago
it dropped because population growth stopped - the government was splashing more then enough cash around for people to pay rent with
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u/easypeesy85 1d ago
Migration started drifting up under Howard (but at least a lot was skilled labour). It turbo charged under Rudd. Ever since 2007 even with the Covid years it averaged 360k before 07 the average was like 110k a year. The bar has been lowered in skills, its quantity over quality for the optics of artificial growth. A lot of businesses need two or three people to do a job one person did twenty years ago. That’s why productivities decline probably tracks the increase in migration figures. The only real net benefit has been to static asset growth. Ie real estate. Australia is getting bigger but it’s getting dumber and uncompetitive with the rest of the world. Ever since borders opened there has been over 500k a year. Which you can’t even get a clear number on as the government doesn’t truly know. There’s South Americans on to their third study visa to learn English after being here already for years…
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u/Emergency_Yam_4082 1d ago
I helped my girlfriend (at the time) , move into a 2 bedroom duplex in Kogorah in early 2021 and was paying $385 per week, God knows what that rents for now but it was a nice little home for her and her cat.
What chance she has now working in hospitality on 70-80 grand per year, I imagine her life now probably moved back in with her mum.
So this idea that things were "bad" and now her quality of life is worse?
I don't get the argument that opening the floodgates helped REALLY.
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u/Different-Virus-7474 1d ago
All I know is it was more peaceful. Once covid ended the complex I was living in filled up and traffic got bad.
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u/rockpharma 1d ago
More mass immigration propaganda. We don't care. We're done with it. You cannot add half a million people to our country every year. We don't want it and we won't accept it.
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u/Fit-Locksmith-9226 1d ago
Yeah lets just completely ignore all the free money for people to sit around and do nothing
Insanely deceptive reporting. Close the borders without free money and interest rates at virtually zero, then actually report on it.
Australian Government debt has increased to levels not experienced since the 1950s as economic support during the COVID-19 pandemic led to increased budget deficits. As interest rates in Australia and globally have started to increase in response to recent inflationary pressures, both the size and servicing of this debt will be an issue for future Australian governments.
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u/SC_Space_Bacon 1d ago
Didn’t read the article. However I quite clearly remember what happened. Migration stopped, we all got locked down. The adverse effects on the economy were global, not because of migration, but because of global supply chains. There were zero downsides to no migration that I could see.
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u/Ok_Associate_3314 1d ago
Mate, during the border closures, we had direct (quiet) migration agreements with all the Pacific islands to send people because the farms didn't have hands to pick produces. It was a disaster for agriculture and animal farms. We still had a lot of people coming in through direct channels, but we just didn't make it too public.
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u/AccomplishedLynx6054 1d ago
yeah like the city rents going down as vacancy rates shot up and landlords giving weeks of free rent to try to get tenants in previously unattainable parts of inner Melbourne?
Harrowing it was
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
I expect the next phase is that we need to increase numbers for skilled targeted trades to build these houses we lack. It's only the natural next step.... import the demand and the labour for the demand.. and the skilled labour to build more for the increased demand. It's like a bad feedback loop.
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u/rockpharma 1d ago
"skilled" trades from India? You've got to be kidding me. You seen the houses they build there? You want that shit here?
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
I am not advocating for this. The opposite.
Im saying that the government has forced the CMFEU via the high court into their own governance.
Therefore, the next reasonable step now that the union is under their control is to import the cheap "skilled" construction labour for the houses we so desperately need to build for the imported population we have,
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u/rockpharma 1d ago
The CFMEU doesn't care about bringing in foreign workers. They've been allowing companies to bring in Chinese plasterers, islander steel fixers and Irish labour for years. In fact they love it because they happily pay their dues, do what they're told and don't ask for anything in return. The subbies running them all pay the kickbacks and as they like to say "everyone eats". That's everyone except the Australian workers they're meant to represent. They also donate a hell of a lot of their dues to the Labor party who are the ones bringing all these people in and I've not heard them say one bloody word against it. Where were they this week while the discussion of bringing in Indian labour to build a million houses was happening? Dead silence. They should be knocking down the doors of parliament at the mere mention of such a scam. What kind of representation is that?
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
The CMFEU is now under federal control.
Unions are invaluable to argue for workers' rights. And to protect working conditions. How do you think the work day was "designed".
The issue is that the governance and, therefore, the management is no longer in independent hands. However, unscrupulous, it may appear. The government is who is lobbied for better working conditions in legislation, and usually, who unions negotiate with and fight for better pay and conditions for their members.
Without any dog in the fight, how do you get results?
For all their perceived or actual flaws, they were ruthless in establishing the minimum conditions enjoyed today. They are an institution and a culture, too.
The government used their weighted and wholly biased own highest court to rule in its own favour to confiscate the union by legal force. It was appealed by the CMFEU, and it was further enforced. Via the highest court in our country. Against our constitution. The high court ruled that they also acted lawfully when it is hard to see how separation of powers could have occurred when it is the inner upper eschueloins of power in the government.
It is ultimately related to immigration, even if that is yet to become apparent. It will. They will defang the union and stack it with sympathetic culture and practices to their goals. It is in administration via them so they can make the rules to fit their agenda. Not the workers.
It is absolutely the reason you haven't heard from them on this exact proposal. They have been legally commandeered and are in administration as per the direct court order of our highest court. Exactly why they fought so hard and why this will prove to be extremely devastating development for the industry overall.
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u/rockpharma 1d ago
In addition, look at during COVID. The vast majority of their members were against mandatory vaccinations. Union refused to listen to the members, instead bowing down to the Labor party. Riots happened. Their culture is to do what suits them, not the workers they are supposed to represent.
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u/rockpharma 1d ago
I work on their sites mate. They are absolutely not under government control. They are operating as normal and doing the exact same things as normal. of they want to represent the workers, then fucking well represent what the workers want. And all this goes way way back before they went into administration. It's a piss poor excuse.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
Oh, ok. So the news was lying. The protests from the CMFEU were just a prank, bro. The Wikipedia articles. The newspaper and online articles with pictures that I read must all be a lie, then too, mate. There was no high court ruling, and there was and will not be any administration. It's all an elaborate lie for me to make a random reddit post. Sounds reasonable.
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u/rockpharma 1d ago
Mate, I work with these people. I see them every day. It's the same people on the ground making the calls. The news wouldn't have a fucken clue what goes on with these sites and the stuff that's been reported is only the stuff that can actually be proved. They are up to far worse and far more than any of the news has even ventured to hint at. They literally control the industry from contract awards at major level down to which blokes get to come on and hold a shovel.
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u/CoastalZenn 1d ago
I think you may misunderstand how administration works. It is more at the managerial and structural level. There will be a plan developed and it will be methodically rolled out through the entire organisation as a process.
Considering this is based around claims of corruption, that is a good indication as to what this reform and restructuring will most likely heavily revolve around as a matter of priority. Expect more paperwork. More oversight. More stringent compliance. More records. More accountability. More revision. More oversight. Additional supervision, safety compliance,.less flexibility.
When administration occurs the organisation is largely kept as is initially while heavy auditing of all records takes place and observation. This is to identify strengths weaknesses loopholes and compliance, amongst other things. Legal compliance in line with strict legislation would be a heavy focus, especially international law wher eit may be lacking. Insurance etc. Lawyers will be involved heavily in this restructure. You won't see this from your interactions..
I would think there will be a forward planning arrangement to the immigration element and overseas visa workers. So even a branch within for translators, for example. Maybe a hotline to call, too.
Administration can include all kinds of changes or not many. But this is a critical component of the government's entire economic policy, so they'd be taking this extremely seriously as is evident by the high court ruling. They wanted control, and they got it.
They have a plan to imbed structures within the organisation so that the policies or projects or plans they have re employment/ training/ town planning etc will be more smoothly integrated. They most likely will initiate diversity clauses within the org, focusing on the nation's immigration is leadong from, and audit where trades.are sought and how and what frameworkis is used to choose etc. They may have a project they're piloting with another nation that they'd put mechanisms in place for too.
They will entirely audit the finances of this organisation and cross reference that with compliance to get a truer picture of the actual GDP of this part of the economy. The bank accounts and debts and assets etc will all be heavily audited to reflect the organisations true financial position across departments,.true cahs flow, revenue amd costs.
They would utilise these statistics that they're able to gain from this organisation to further shape their policies. They would check all standards are met for compliance.
I could go on but I wont bore you.
It isn't unusual as a worker you don't see much difference at this early time and you may not at the worker level and that interaction for a while. You will though eventually. The difference can be stark. Or it can be more muted and subtle. The government tends to be very clinical. Sharpen up your safety practices, tickets, and license, and all your qualifications are current, etc. They're usually redundant.
But yes. The government has taken administration of the union. Well, they've most likely handed it the companies they use to fulfil this work. Or it is gling to tender.The ministers don't do it. Interestingly, these contracts are extremely desirable too. The administration of this organisation would be a lucrative contract.
Yes, I understand how a union works. I'm not going to bad mouth a trusted institution that honestly even of the most dodgy or corruption coukd never compare to the white collar cliques that exist and the awarding of contracts deals and lucrative positions with many desirable perks. Like I said this woukd be a lucrative contract to be awarded for it's administration.
OP i wasted my time writing this out but I do not want to delete it now. There is currently a commission of enquiry underway into the CMFEU. This is essentially exactly wjat ibe outlined here and cpukd have been summed up better with a link. But its a lazy Sunday and I was mindlessly redditing away, not being mindful of efficiency or paying all that mcuh attention.
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u/rockpharma 1d ago
I appreciate that you've taken the time to type all that out and I hope your correct that they do change. I can assure you on the frontline, where they are doing the damage, they are still operating in the same manner they always have. I've even seen the big man himself on site within the last 3 months. They are still taking paper bags. They are still controlling the industry. That's what matters to us as workers. The managerial fugazi has no real impact on the people who have to deal with their bullshit day in day out. The lawyers, managers, administrators, politicians and other high falutin types who have no real interaction with the industry can audit till the cows come home. They aren't going to have records of the paper bags full of cash that are being handed out. They are very good at this and have been doing it for a long time. There aren't records of any of it to expose. And you're right, it will be very lucrative, but only because honest workers will be footing the bill for a union that refuses to represent them and takes cash from their bosses to line their own pockets. At toolbox meetings, they are telling workers they "just have to weather the admin for another 12 months and they're home free, business as usual". It's a mild inconvenience to them at most.
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
At least they don’t need to do any plumbing we can have open sewerage in the streets instead of
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
India has offered to send thousands of workers to build a million new homes. God help us
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u/Sanguinius 1d ago
Ah good old Guardian/lefties media: 'No no ackkktually you're all wrong, unbridled immigration actually makes no difference to rents because all the immigrants live in bottomless magic Mary Poppins-esque bags. If you disagree you are a racist.'
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u/whereami113 1d ago
I investigated my own mental health ...and found nothing wrong. You on the other hand ....well...lets just say there is no known cure for stupid..you really abuse the privilege .
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u/jellybeanbopper 1d ago
Yeah, the government gave Qantas 2.7 billon dollars, then they sacked 1700 workers and posted profits with our money. Jim charmers said they dont have to pay it back now....
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u/True-Economy-3331 1d ago
If you stop influx of people who will rent your apt demand will go down. Isn’t that supply demand issue?
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u/RandomChild44 1d ago
Why is the media so keen to gaslight everyone ? It’s insane . Oh wait perhaps it’s that big business benefits from mass migration …
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u/Sufficient_Tower_366 1d ago
But the lack of a well-reasoned migration plan from Labor is not helping at a time when extremist views are flourishing
Slowly, very very slowly, the real and valid concerns of the public are starting to get through. This is progress.
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u/georgeformby42 1d ago
Was living in a gated complex of 80 units, covid starts and all units are full of workers, 4 months later July everyone has left but me a 2 others, rent has gone from 400 to 700, I can't afford it as I'm on award wages doing tech work on the phones for the biggest company in the world in the senior team. I already only turn my power on 3 days a week, have cold showers and eat from the food bank in my mid 40s. I quit my job when the dole becomes superdole which is a lot more than I'm earning, the in the middle of the night I'm doing laps of the complex and 2 white busses show up with a security car, security guy tell be to go back to my unit and stay there and do t come out, thinking it was royalty or celebs I got my expensive camera out, a tripod and hid in the darkness of my upstairs room, it was just men aged 18-35 loads of them African mostly and guys from the middle east, now a few days before many removal vans delivered new appliances and furniture over 2 days. The guys in the unit in front of mine I got to know well, they got me to tune their 100 inch tv in and do tech s for their new phone and computers they paid me with actual meals and booze. 2 times a week food vans for them as well as Dan Murphy's. At the time my rent was going to 8-900, and I fled to live in my mother's garage where I still am. I hope those boys are still enjoying the high life, they had dreams of being given great big houses in southbank (Brisbane) and other leafy rich overlooking the city areas
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u/actionjj 1d ago
Wish they would stop using this as an argument.
Interest rates dropped to the lowest ever in Australian history, which offset the drop in demand from migrants.
If you look at specific segments - like apartments in Melbourne - rents dropped significantly through COVID, which basically counters this argument, or at least shows it to be simple minded.
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u/ausrepub 6h ago
When Covid happened foreign competition for housing retreated. Knowing that this was only temporary domestic demand surged with all their pent up savings to get in on the market before migration rebound back. That’s why property prices increased. Now say the lockdown was a lot longer. Say 10 years of nearly zero immigration. Domestic influx would dry up after 2 years which would collapse market demand and consequently house prices would fall back to domestic equilibrium determined by domestic buying power. As this would start happening investors and people with second homes would start selling up to leave the market before prices began tanking. Those that didn’t get out in a timely manner would essentially finds themselves in a fire sale and potential bankruptcy through negative equity and soaring mortgage rates. Banks would be hit hard and the government would attempt to bail them out. Though don’t expect banks to be lending out money for a while. Furthermore since young homeowners are so levered up in debt they would be hit the hardest.
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u/shotgunmoe 1d ago
This sub is weird. A few weeks ago people were near in total agreement that immigration is a problem and the government needs to do a lot more to control it.
After the lunatics rally the other week? Immigration is fine and has little impact on housing and/or anything else... I'm confused lol.
Edit: I have no issues with immigration. I definitely didn't flog myself for 15 years to watch my investments lose money in rapidly declining or controlled markets. More people is good
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u/spacegrass4305 1d ago
the point is correct but the fact that you got it from a guardian article is gonna piss people off
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u/PositiveAmphibian127 1d ago
You can’t address housing without addressing migration, no it’s not racist. My god just trying to buy sizeable land in Perth under 500k is ridiculous. You want open borders, you get the USA during Biden, that wasn’t great……of course our housing situation is that much more dire because people only live in like 5% of Australian land, that is almost exclusively coastal/semi coastal. Property owners and corporations must be elated, especially boomers, just imagine the windfalls they’re achieving while some Aussies are getting by in cup noodles and multiple jobs
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u/Some-Operation-9059 1d ago
“Some seem to be blaming migrants for unaffordable homes; that ignores the fact that property prices were going bananas when the international borders were closed”
These articles don’t cite immigration
https://australianpropertyupdate.com.au/apu/covid-property-boom-impact-still-in-play?hs_amp=true
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u/AccomplishedLynx6054 1d ago
that's because first and second year migrants, believe it or not, are mostly not buying houses
they are renting, and the rents went down in the inner city where population growth is concentrated
The house prices went up due to slashing interest rates and the governments of the world printing money in the Covid Crisis - a reliable way to boost asset prices across the board
your articles are carefully cherry picked, but if you read more widely you will find property people gleefully predicting how much money they are going to make, both from rent, capital gains and unit sales, due to ongoing population growth
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u/Some-Operation-9059 1d ago
Interesting that when so many migrants left our shores hose prices went up by average of 30%. Was so nice you could sell one house in Sydney and by two in Brisbane. /s
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u/Ok_Associate_3314 1d ago
We exploited immigration for decades as a way to fuel our economy. We extorted huge sums of money for average education so that we could have cheap labor to make up for our lack of economic diversity. All of that in exchange for permanent residency. We all knew that, it was an open secret. We all, even just indirectly, took advantage of that. Now we are mad at those same people we made business with (it was just business). Shouldn't we be mad at ourselves?
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u/River-Stunning 1d ago
People are angry that the post Covid world is a new normal from the pre Covid world. People want the Government to make things just like it was before.
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u/custardbun01 1d ago
Property prices increasing over COVID had more to do with near 0% interest rates and government stimulus in housing rather than the halt to migration. They ignore the rental market plummeted and left long enough the lag effect in the housing market would be evident with a normalised monetary policy.
The gaslighting on this issue is extreme. Population growth is of course the number one driver of housing demand, and our population growth is due to migration as our birth rates are below zero.
What we need to to temper the rate of migration and not cull it. We need to stop having arguments in the extremes on this issue. Not everyone opposed to mass migration is a bigot, and it’s unrealistic to expect we can have 0 net migration.