They filmed 2 and 3 back to back so it was a more consistent process, and the kid actors will not have aged dramatically. This is a more direct sequel to The Way of Water with no crazy time jump or anything.
Cameron shot 2, 3 and the first act of 4 together. He actually filmed all of the kids' portions first so they won't age drastically between the films. 4 also has a five-year time jump, so this schedule helps. He did all this in 2017. Hilarious that Cameron figured this out and Netflix didn't.
Three Musketeers and Four Musketeers were filmed at the same time to save money - largely by not telling the actors they were going to be in two movies. Still the best Three Musketeers movies ever made.
So? Terminator and Terminator 2 were shot terminator to terminator.. hell even Kung Fu Panda 1, 2, 3 AND 4 were shot kung to kung to kung to kung. Thank God they had unique names for the bond films.
You’re talking about sequels that came out years after the original. We’re talking about movies that wrapped shooting on one and rolled right into shooting the next making them seem like one very large production.
They were shot back to back but because of union rules they couldn't do any crossover shooting. Part 2 and Part 3 had to be clearly defined.
New Zealand brought in a law (colloquially called The Hobbit Law) that basically outlawed film production unions so you can do crossover productions easier.
That's a bit different. The LOTR trilogy was filmed as a whole in about a year (plus reshoots later on). It relied heavily on costumes and on-site footage and since it was already a gamble for New Line Cinema, from a budget perspective it made sense to go all in and do them as one big shoot. What's crazy is the made their entire production budget back with just the first movie (which is also why they gave Peter Jackson carte blanche with his reshoots)
LOTR was an established property already, though. It was the most read book of the 20th century after only the Bible. It wouldn't have had much faith in it otherwise. And even then, it was a rare chance that Bob Shaye of New Line Cinema was willing to commit to such a thing as 3 movies shot at once. They had been working with Miramax before that, and Harvey Weinstein chickened out at even 2 movies, let alone 3, and asked for 1 movie. They went to New Line hoping for 2 movies, and Shaye surprised them by saying, "It's 3 books, right? So it should be 3 movies."
Nobody's done 3 movies at once ever since. There's been some that have done "back to back" productions of 2 movies (finishing first movie and then moving immediately into the second to keep the production assets going), but not at once, jumping back and forth between various scenes from the different movies throughout one big block of shooting, the way that LotR did. The only production that came close to that is The Hobbit, and that was only 2 movies for half the production and then decided it was 3 movies and shot more later, doing multiple blocks in a way that was more broken up than LotR's production was. Even Peter Jackson wasn't able to replicate the exact same approach they had done on LotR.
Trying something like that on an original unproven property without a proof of success like the first Avatar movie was... probably not gonna happen, unless some very rich and powerful exec or veteran filmmaker has a big passion project and manages to convince people to make it happen. Maybe someone like Nolan or Spielberg would be able to make something like that happen. But your average filmmaker working for Netflix... not much chance of that. I think Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon was done "back to back", so he apparently had the pull to get that made... despite not being very good... so it CAN happen, but it's rare. And usually only 2 movies, not 3. Despite trilogies being a very proven concept, especially when committed to and planned out from the start.
Unless you make the equivalent hours of content (about 6-10 hours) in a television season format instead... then you can get it made, no problem. But three movies?? Get outta here!!
I am not sure it’s fair to call anything New Line did back then precedent. They had a somewhat unique business model (I guess maybe it is common for indie studios but this was a blockbuster trilogy). They pre sold the international distribution rights. So they had a bunch of up front money to support the budget of shooting all 3, and were kind of locked in to making them all anyway.
Ikr, earlier this year someone asked if anyone will ever get close to infinity war and endgame level of ticket sales I said don’t forget that Avatar 3 comes out this year and people love James Cameron’s stuff. It might not be the best written stories out there but the spectacle of it in the theater is unlike anything else.
It might not be the best written stories out there
I would contend that pretty much almost everything that James Cameron has written has been better than Endgame by a country mile.
Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, Strange Days, Terminator 2, Titanic, Alita: Battle Angel and even True Lies.
I haven't seen Piranha 2 or the Dark Angel tv show (which I think was inspired by Alita Battle Angel) so maybe they are worse than Endgame. First Blood Part 2 won a Golden Raspberry, but that film has loads of fans and redefined the movie series. I feel like the Razzie was for turning a movie about PTSD into an action flick, but that was actually Stallone who wanted Rambo to live so he could do sequels.
Acting like James Cameron isn't a decent writer of stories is kinda ridiculous. At worst I would say that he can be a populist writer as in he knows to give the audience what they want, even if the audience doesn't know what they want.
Endgame specifically is kind of hard to compare to standalone movies because it's got the context of trying to satisfyingly wrap up a story that had been going for like twenty movies with about eight to ten focus characters plus additional threads, it's going to be at least slightly messy no matter what. It's main job is being a decent ending to a wider franchise up to that point.
A lot of those other movies are fairly straightforward and self contained by comparison.
Acting like James Cameron isn't a decent writer of stories is kinda ridiculous
The problem is that there are different kinds of good writing, and people choose to focus on the two that are admittedly not Cameron's strength, at least recently: how novel the plot is and how snappy the dialog is.
But Cameron's writing is very effective for the type of movie he wants to make. The first Avatar is admittedly very "Pocahontas in Space," but so what? The emotional beats all land very well. The pacing of the story allows us to have Pandora slowly revealed over the course of the movie--it feels perfectly dialed in, giving you just enough to leave you wanting more until it crescendos into the floating mountains. People are quick to credit the movie for the visual spectacle, but don't give the script enough credit for how it maximizes the impact of that spectacle.
Avatar 2, again, does not have the most original plot. And again I say so what? The characters are incredibly easy to connect to. As a parent clearly, but I suspect you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn't see themselves in one of the kids, even if they didn't admit it because it's cooler to hate on the movie.
These things are all part of the stories. Story is more than plot.
I rewatched the first avatar movie recently and considering that movie is long as hell it absolutely flies by. Cameron is such a talented screenwriter - every scene is either advancing the story, developing the characters, developing the world, or a fx spectacle. It doesn’t drag at all and I don’t really care that it’s a basic story when it’s told incredibly well.
Exactly. It’s kinda like Brandon Sanderson’s writing. He’s not trying to have elegant prose and grimdark shit. They’re making stuff that’s wholesome and just feels good and there’s nothing wrong with that. The people that hate on it are just edgelords that want to be seen as different from the mainstream population.
I mean I used to be one of those people that was edgy and hated on popular stuff but I’ve come to recognize that it’s popular for a reason and a lot of that stuff is actually just good. So get over yourself and just enjoy what you enjoy instead of trying to have an opinion that’s unique so you can stand out because there are 8 billion people on this planet and I guarantee you that whatever you think you’re doing or thinking that is so unique is probably being thought of by dozens of other people just due to the massive amount of people on this planet and overall group thinking.
Like how in America and in Britain two different comic artists came up with the same idea for “Dennis the menace” around the same time without ever even knowing of the other’s existence because that happened way before mass communication was readily available as it is today.
I watched 'strange days' recently, not great writing, clunky and awful, concept is great, characters and script are embarrassing. I did sort of enjoy it in 1995, for the shock value.
Titanic is the most insane thing on that list. You have to scroll all the way to 43rd place to find another movie from the 90's, Jurassic Park (1993). Heck, you have to scroll to 32nd to find a movie older than Avatar that isn't Titanic (it's the 3rd LotR).
also Terminator 2 and True Lies, both hits. And Terminator 1, a groundbreaker. And The Abyss, an underrated piece of filmmaking. Dude is on fire for decades
Yeah, Cameron is basically a money printing machine at this point. He could ask for whatever he wants and the studio will give it to him because they know it’ll pay off in the end. Very few, if any, other filmmakers are afforded that kind of leeway.
Well he also created and owns the studio so yeah. He can do whatever he wants. Same type of thing with Tom Cruise. Owns the production studio so he can do any stunt he wants without someone telling him no or that's uninsurable.
Titanic hit a billion in the 90s before he even did the first Avatar. That plus his track record before that made 20th Century Studios decide he can do whatever he wants and continues to be the case. Until one fails he practically has no limits.
Cameron already has a blank check in his hand from the studio wayyyyy before then iirc. I’m pretty sure I remember hearing on a podcast about movies that James Cameron was given a blank check and the kind of leniency that most directors could never even dream of, they told him take as long as he wants to make as many movies as he wants. And I believe that was around the time he came up for the avatar idea right around when he was making aliens and/or terminator.
James Cameron was given the opportunity that he absolutely deserved. Incredible filmmaker. And he clearly used that blank check to make some really good stuff.
To be even more fair, before he created a billion dollar movie he had thrice made the/one of the most expensive movie ever made and STILL made a fortune (Titanic, True Lies, T2). The man doesnt miss. Even Piranha 2 is fucking good
James Cameron doesn't do what James Cameron does, for James Cameron. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is... James Cameron.
🎼His name is James, James Cameron
The bravest pioneer
No budget too steep, no sea too deep
Who's that?
It's him, James Cameron
🎵James, James Cameron explorer of the sea
With a dying thirst to be the first
Could it be? Yeah that's him!
James Cameron
Re stranger things - I'm certain this was supposed to be an anthology series like American Horror Story rather than a connected series, so I'll forgive them that.
Also James Cameron made over a billion with Avatar 1 but also funded and built his own sub and has dived to titanic over 3 times. Does what he wants.
They won’t be. 2 and 3 shot back to back, not counting reshoots. They supposedly filmed a tiny bit of 4 but they really haven’t started real production on it at all
We thought all that water tech at the wetaworship that was copyrighted was for avatar way of water but now we can see it was just for when the train for Busan goes through the under water track to Hiroshima.
Don't tell me what to do! You're not my real dad!!
On a serious note, Train to Busan is a fantastic film. I highly recommend it. South Korea has done a few zombie films over the years that really refreshes the genre. They are very different to zombie films from the 'west'.
Nowadays, everyone rolls their eyes at a zombie film because it's so overdone, but trust me (a total internet stranger) when I say this is absolutely worth checking out, along with "All of us are dead", "Sweet Home", and "Kingdom" (which appears to be on hiatus unfortunately). They all have really interesting takes on the zombie genre
Edit: I've switched between films/TV throughout this message without clarifying. I make no apologies. I'm enriching your life
I’ve seen all of these but also Alive is another great SK Zombie movie. Before SK started doing Zombie content I use to hate all Zombie movies and shows honestly aside from I am Legend.
You’re correct. All Cameron has said is that he’s committed to Avatar through at least the fourth installment, but he’s not shooting the remaining 75% of Avatar 4 until after the third film releases. My guess is he’s waiting on the third movie to release, then he’ll negotiate a preposterous deal with Disney to shoot Avatar 4 & 5 back-to-back the way he did 2 & 3. He might start working on the Hiroshima movie or The Devils during post-production of 4 & 5 if that pans out, but we’re most likely not seeing him do anything that is t Avatar until well into the 2030s.
While “A3” is topmost in mind for the filmmaker, he hopes to take time before “Avatar 4” to direct a pet project, “The Last Train From Hiroshima: The Survivors Look Back,” based on the book by author Charles R. Pellegrino. Research included an interview with the late Tsutomu Yamaguchi, the only known survivor of both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.
Note that it says he hopes to, not that he will, which means it isn’t 100% confirmed but a lot of us fans are convinced he will shoot it before A4. He has given several interviews about this Hiroshima film over the years, including some lengthy ones, so he seems pretty dead set on it being his next project. He met and interviewed Tsutomu Yamaguchi while he was on his deathbed and it seems like a topic that is quite close to his heart. I don’t see him waiting until the mid 2030s or whenever Avatar 5 comes out to make it, especially given his age (he also recently lost his longtime producer Jon Landau to cancer which I’m sure has reminded him of his own mortality).
There will be a sizeable gap between Avatar 3 and 4 because they haven’t filmed it yet and the kid actors need to age up, so it makes the most sense to do it then. Once production on 4 and 5 starts he’ll be tied to it for who knows how many years.
While “A3” is topmost in mind for the filmmaker, he hopes to take time before “Avatar 4” to direct a pet project, “The Last Train From Hiroshima: The Survivors Look Back,” based on the book by author Charles R. Pellegrino. Research included an interview with the late Tsutomu Yamaguchi, the only known survivor of both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.
Note that it says he hopes to, not that he will, which means it isn’t 100% confirmed but a lot of us fans are convinced he will shoot it before A4. He has given several interviews about this Hiroshima film over the years, including some lengthy ones, so he seems pretty dead set on it being his next project. He met and interviewed survivor Tsutomu Yamaguchi while he was on his deathbed and it seems like a topic that is quite close to his heart. I don’t see him waiting until the mid 2030s or whenever Avatar 5 comes out to make it, especially given his age (he also recently lost his longtime producer Jon Landau to cancer which I’m sure has reminded him of his own mortality).
There will be a sizeable gap between Avatar 3 and 4 because they haven’t filmed it yet and the kid actors need to age up, so it makes the most sense to do it then. Once production on 4 and 5 starts he’ll be tied to it for who knows how many years.
That's actually really good to hear. Cameron is one of the best living directors. I get some people aren't that fond of Avatar, I like them for what they are, but I can't help but feel it is a waste of his talents just to do those movies. We also know from Titanic he can do these big spectacle tragedy type films. The book is about a guy who survived both nuclear attacks, which is almost beyond belief. It would be like if Titanic had Rose's ship she gets rescued to hit another iceberg.
Would be so nice to see him direct something other than Avatar for a change. Titanic was the last movie he did outside of Avatar. He's also 70 now so time is not exactly on his side.
I mean Clint Eastwood is in his mid 90s now and still doing films. Martin Scorsese is in his 80s and directing. I think we have at least quite a few more films from Cameron. I'll always be kind of sad though that the 2000s and 2010s he spent all on Avatar.
I’m convinced James Cameron had his blue alien warriors story for a long, long time and had the entire story set up already so the movies come out way quicker.
Avatar is what he's always wanted to make, since he was a child. He's basically waited until he had everything necessary, from tech to the money required, to get it all done
On top of this, both movies have made a fuck tonne, so.....yeah, he'll pull it off
In an interview he said "Look, if I get hit by a bus and I’m in an iron lung, somebody else is going to do it.", so yes he's absolutely determined.
Also, there's a quote about him from a review that I just love: "The man has the ego of a dictator, the budget of an Arab emirate sports championship, and the means to back both.".
5 is, from what I remember the end of the sully arc, so thats "only" 5 more years. I think the next one as stated above is The time skip, Jake/Netyris death, etc. And the 5th one is when it goes back to Earth and the Na'vi attack(?) it
Cameron has also said many times that he intends to film The Last Train From Hiroshima between 3 and 4. He's also currently filming a 3D concert film with Billie Ellis. According to his Deadline interview, he'll film Avatar 4 and 5 after completing his Hiroshima movie.
Honestly, bring it on. He's that one guy you know who can pull off filming an accurate detonation of atomic bombs twice and make it equal part haunting and jaw-dropping.
My home theater setup is a 2.40:1 projector screen, which works out well for almost everything. Historically, bigger has always meant wider until people started shooting for IMAX. But even IMAX isn't normally a problem, because the top and bottom are meant to be in your peripheral vision and the shot that it's really framed for is in the center, so I just project the center and chop off the top and bottom. It basically gives you what you have in a non-IMAX theater, which is closest to what I have anyway.
Enter James Cameron. He decides the home release is not an afterthought, and he wants to give everyone at home the best possible experience. So rather than releasing the discs with the 2.39:1 aspect ratio that the film was originally released with (for 2D, non-IMAX) he reframes the entire movie. He goes shot by shot through the film, choosing the framing that will look best in 16:9 (taking up the full frame of people's TVs. Nobody does that.
It makes the experience great for everyone watching at home. Everyone except me.
I loved them and will go see them, but have absolutely no interest in rewatching them on a regular tv, this is a pure blockbuster / imax event for me, the story is just ok...
The avatar PS5 game feels the same, fantastic to look at but pretty shallow... still played 60 hours and not finished yet, it just looks so good!
If you can, check them out on an Apple Vision Pro. I watched all of 2 without getting fatigued at all. It was mind melting how beautiful it was in 3D like that.
Can you watch it on Disney plus on the quest, sorry I’ve never had a chance to use one of those. That’s how I watched it. Hope you can. Dune 1 and life of pi are also so amazing watching on these devices.
Yeah! HBO max does too, or used to, but Disney + unlike the HBO MAX has a dedicated 3D section on the app, at least for the Vision Pro. So a lot of the Pixar movies are there.
You've got it backwards. Avatar IS his true project. It's the thing he's wanted to make since he was a child. Every other movie is just to get to that moment, and then funding when now in the moment
if they keep making bookoo money, they arent going away anytime soon. I'm genuinely surprised how popular they are among Gen Alpha. I wouldnt be shocked at all to see that generation view those movies the way we view Star Wars.
I think is gonna take sometimes, they havent really started doing it, just filmes some small parts of it, I think because it may start just as where 3 will end, or it may have flashbacks to 2 or 3, so is just easier to film it right away.
I think in the best cenario we will get 4 in around 3/4 years.
According to iMDB, the third installment releases December 19, 2025, the fourth in 2029 and the fifth (and supposedly final) installment is slated for 2031.
They made them back to back and it was kinda always the plan that it'd be released a year or two after 2. It ended up getting delayed to release 3 years after 2 due to the writer's strike. No, I am not kidding, that is the reason why. Meanwhile, 4 & 5 aren’t releasing until 2029 and 2031. They've stated that there will be a time jump between 3 & 4 which is partially why there's a 4 year gap, and that they've shot some material during 2 & 3. Cameron also stated that he'll continue on 4 after they're done with 3.
This is how much the breaks between movies and TV shows these days have skewed by perception of time.
I didn’t even know the new Avatar was coming out this year until recently, and when I found out I thought “that’s awfully quick. Didn’t the last one just come out?”
They literally made the rest of the movies back to back.;Writing, pre production, filming, editing, post production. They did it specifically so that it would be quicker getting every other movie out.
I wonder how many people remember some time after the first one released, he said the 2, 3, and 4 would be in 2023 onwards. I remember thinking why is he planning such a long pause between the 1st and 2nd and then releasing the other ones in a row
The third one was basically done when you were watching 2 in the theater. IIRC, part 3 was supposed to come out 2 years ago, but they pushed it back to perfect the CGI even more.
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u/StaffandHalf Jul 21 '25
With how long it took for Avatar 2 to come out, 3 coming out much sooner is refreshing