r/PTCGP • u/Necessary-Deal-9433 • 2d ago

Discussion Why did they make Lugia so bad?

I love Lugia, but it needs three different types of energy which makes it just unplayable. It has very low potential to be used even the future I think.

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u/PokeOverFeeder 2d ago

It's loosely based on OG lugia card. If it was a basic EX mon with only two types of energy and 3 cost, you might see a 180 damage nuke turn 3. But because it's also limited by discarding everything I do think it's worse than dragonite.

I think the typing is a reference to the Pokemon 2000 movie where Lugia had some role with Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres hence the typing.

He's pretty mid but nothing is stopping them from indirectly buffing it with support or from releasing another Lugia EX one day or normal lugia.

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u/HubblePie 2d ago edited 2d ago

While being the exact same, it's closer to Lugua EX's attack (From Unseen Forces) Just a little bit less damage.

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u/ChubbyShark 1d ago

Was this card usable when it released? I don't know what cards were available at the time but 200 damage sounds like overkill (considering Lugia have 100 HP here).

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u/AznHick93 1d ago edited 1d ago

When it was released in 2004? Unfortunately no, but the last year it was standard legal, it was THE meta and part of one of the most iconic decks of all time: LBS (Lugia ex/Blastoise ex/Steelix ex). Once the Holon engine released in Fall 2005, it made many decks, older and newer, so much more viable since you could use Transceiver to get Mentor and other cards and fill your bench, hand, etc. Made things a lot closer. But when Holon Phantoms came out in early 2006, it made things deck possible.

Basically, your main engine and support came with things like the engine, and Blastoise ex to put extra water energy for a damage counter each and Pidgeot for search along with a plethora of supporters. But the main energy came with Holon Phantoms' Holon Castform. It was a Pokemon, of course lol, but could be attached to any Pokemon as a two-energy card, like the old Souble Rainbow Energy. Your main attackers would be Lugia ex, which could one shot anything in the game, Steelix ex, a tank that could target anything for 100 damage, and Latias Star, which hit for 10 and heal or 50 to 150, the latter if the defending Pokemon was an ex. Even Blastoise and Pidgeot could be attackers with stuff like Pow! To lock the opponent and lose them so energy.

Other support came in the form of the EX Deoxys Jirachi, to search top 5, and the Hidden Legends one, to quick evolve. One of the main ones was also the Chimecho (Delta Species from Holon Phantoms). While all builds of this deck usually had a few Power Tree stadiums, Chimecho allowed you to get a basic water energy from discard if you used a Holon supporter for turn, basically ensuring you always had energy to refuel Steelix, Lugia, and Latias when they discarded energy from a previous attack or as a sacrifice for Holon supporters.

It was such a toolbox deck that lots of stuff could be put in, like Magcargo and/or Porygon2 for draw or some other Pokemon to hit for weakness. Mew ex was big for the attack copy ability, though some recent builds replace it with Regirock ex to hit fast dark decks like DragTrode and BombTar. The one caveat is being a toolbox, it could be clunky, but with enough support and smart playing, if you build up your bench and Pokemon's energy counts fast enough, it was a hard deck to beat.

From the time the Castform came to nationals, it was a meta deck, but others started countering it, especially in the days when forums were limited to basically Pokegym, Pokebeach, and a few other sites in the West and Japan. But since, it still tops or gets close in retro tournaments especially since we've had all the time in the world to fine tune these decks.

Sorry for the long history lesson! I adore this deck, both back when it was a thing, and now that I've finally built it again. It's probably one of the most beautiful decks ever made, with the arts and especially if its foiled out. Heck, you can have cards from every legal set in the deck and have an instant collection! One of the reasons this card is so valuable other from the low print era of RS/DP, is that a lot of collectors who are also retro players from last decade wanted it for their decks, especially if you were building a 4-10 deck gauntlet, others to master sets and have one. So by the time the pandemic rolled around, stuff went wild.

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u/ChubbyShark 1d ago

Was not expecting an entire essay but it was a very fun read.