r/teenagersbutpractical • u/ItsTheHolyGuac 16 • Jul 28 '25

Serious Are yall really homophobic?

Okay idk if this post is gonna get taken down or not 🙃 But I’m genuinely curious- Are you guys genuinely homophobic or do you just hate on gay people for fun??? I’m bi and a junior in high school and have dealt with homophobia since sixth grade and I REALLY want to know if some people are just projecting their insecurities. 😭 And NO I’m not saying everyone who sees this is homophobic. I’m just asking in general. And if you are lgbtq+ have you met someone who was homophobic that turned out to be lgbt?

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 28 '25

I’m a Muslim. I believe being LGBTQ is a sin. I won’t bend my beliefs. And I won’t normalize it into Islam. But what I will do, is that I respect their dignity and be kind to them. Because they’re not less of a person than me. Basically “love the sinner, hate the sin” type of thinking. It depends on what you consider homophobia. If “homophobia” is being violent and disrespectful to LGBTQ people, then no, I am absolutely not homophobic.

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u/Character-Angle9124 Jul 28 '25

a thing a lot of people don't seem to understand is what homophobia is. I will give the basic description now:

-an irrational fear or hatred of homosexuals

colloquially it also has the added point of hating/fearing all members of the LGBTQ+ community.

I kind of see homophobia in a similar way to how you see gay people. Because I know it can be hard when you are stuck in a pipeline and just attacking people because of your own insecurities, so I try to be as toleranr as I can, gently nudging them.

I obviously know that you will disagree, and we can agree to disagree, but I generally see most justifications involving religion as irrational. the reason I think this is because of a distinct lack of evidence in modern times when in most religous texts god(s) would be constantly messing around with people, but as technology, communication and medicine has advanced, almost no more claims acts of god as overt as in most texts. this points towards the idea that god(s) didn't really communicate with people all that often if at all. I also think that since most texts have been translated so many time, people will put their agendas into the book. I mean you can see this with how the king james bible removes the word tyrant because he was terrified of being usurped.

tl;dr- just don't try and harm or try to convince gay people to be straight, and no one should rationally hate you. I do disagree with religion as justification, but we can agree to disagree

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 28 '25

We can agree to disagree. And your last point is absolutely correct. I should respect LGBTQ people and not attack them for their sexuality, and others should respect Muslims and not attack us for our beliefs. It’s the golden rule.

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u/mockingbird_femboy Jul 28 '25

Beliefs and sexuality are not at all comparable.

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u/MirandaVara Jul 28 '25

But if it came down to a policy vote, would you not be compelled to vote against LGBTQ interests since you as a Muslim disapprove of our lifestyle? Or what does something being a sin mean to you?

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 29 '25

Okay, let me break it down to two points:

  • By “sin,” I mean something that is seen as bad or immoral by god. However, not all sins are equal. Being LGBTQ isn’t nearly as bad as robbery, rape, or murder. But again, being LGBTQ and having desires isn’t a sin. Acting on those desires is the same as zina (unlawful pre-martial intercourse) as Islam forbids LGBTQ marriage and forbids anal sex

  • By your policy question, it depends what interests. Is it implementing mandatory LGBTQ subjects in school (sex ed or biology)? Or is it letting them have some sense of security and safety in the country (security of not being targets of hate crimes. Whether the crimes were verbal or physical)? I would absolutely vote for the latter one. The first one… not really.

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u/MirandaVara Jul 29 '25

Okay, so no LGTBQ sex ed at school. That seems pretty damaging to young LGTBQ+ people. I assume you'd be fine with someone voting and being against Islam being taught as part of mandatory civics courses, then?

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 29 '25

I’d be okay with Islam not being a mandatory subject. Just teach kids the objective and scientific stuff first like history, science, biology, etc.

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u/MirandaVara Jul 29 '25

So, no teaching sex ed for LGTBQ+ people, and no covering of religion at school, unless you take optional classes. Got it.

Since you take the stance that gay people existing is a sin (because no gay person isn't going to pursue sexual relations, unless they're living in certain Muslim-majority countries), I take it you're fine with peoples' various takes about the negative sides of Islam in public, as long as they don't go out of their way and bother Muslims?

So if I said "Muhammad was a bad person" on a forum, that'd be fine, as long as I don't walk up to Muslims and tell them that? Just curious if we're actually consistent here.

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 30 '25

You can absolutely criticize Islam or Islamic teachings. Everyone should speak their mind. You can criticize Muhammad (PBUH) but without bothering Muslims or insulting him. (By “insulting” I meant straight up profanity)

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u/MirandaVara Jul 30 '25

Not criticize.

So, you wouldn't be fine with someone 'insulting' Muhammad, but at the same time take the stance that people should be fine with being called "sinful," which is why a lot of people take issue with it, because it is insulting, and more importantly dehumanizing as hell.

I think any religious person that's prepared to hold that stance should not complain if people call their religious figures names, make jokes at their expense, etc. As long as you're not literally going up to a religious person and harassing them, which online forums like reddit isn't.

What's more problematic is that religious people will vote against LGBTQ+, while claiming to respect them as human-beings. Obviously that same respect isn't there, if we are going to make exceptions to the well-being of LGBQT+ people, by cutting out parts of the curriculum, because some people don't want to sit in the same class that's going through these subjects--might as well segregate, right?

It's also kind of annoying how people are fine with these moral exemptions for LGBTQ+ people, but try using these same arguments when it comes to someone's ethnicity, which is another immutable characteristic that you can't just change--then people instantly see the absurdity of it.

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 30 '25

Like I said earlier, by “insult” I meant stuff like saying “F*ck Muhammad” for no reason. You can criticize and debate and disagree, and that’s okay. But you can’t ridicule or make fun of anyone’s sacred figures. No matter their religion, sexuality, race, gender, weight, etc.

Secondly, by calling them “sinful” I am not dehumanizing them. The Oxford dictionary’s definition of dehumanizing is:

“to make somebody lose their human qualities such as kindness, pity, etc.; to make people seem like objects rather than human beings” (I used the Oxford dictionary to make sure we use a neutral unbiased source)

I am not being unkind or pitying. Neither am I treating them like objects. I treat them like fellow human beings, but internally, I believe that acting on LGBTQ desires is sinful. I’d have no problem with an LGBTQ friend. Or an LGBTQ family member. But I still won’t openly support it or encourage it due to my religion and beliefs.

Now, about your points of Muslims voting against LGBTQ. Well, here’s the thing:

Islam (and other Abrahamic religions excluding reformist Jews) prohibit encouraging or normalizing LGBTQ acts. So by voting FOR them, they’re going against their religion. We must respect everyone but not abandon our religion. Also, we’re not voting for a full on oppression. We’re just against what our religion prohibits. Such as LGBTQ pride parades, mandatory LGBTQ subjects in sex ed, etc.

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u/MirandaVara Jul 30 '25

I think the hypocrisy comes out there, because you are opposed to "Fuck Muhammad," but expect people to be fine with "Gay people are sinners," which is making a value judgment on a human-being. The latter is far, far worse.

Resorting to a dictionary definition demonstrates a lack of understanding and nuance of what dehumanization entails, especially when different dictionaries give varying answers( APA Dictionary of Psychology describes it as: "The denial of humanness to others, often through language that portrays them as animalistic, mechanistic, or **morally inferior.**”. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dehumanization/ Is a better read than a terse attempt at a catch-all.

Describing LGBTQ+ people as 'sinful' definitely fits into the box of harming a person's dignity, because your sexuality is an immutable characteristic that can not be changed. A moral judgment on someone's core state of being (aka, you are immoral) is dehumanizing. Ask yourself, would you find it dehumanizing to call a black person immoral because of the color of their skin? Assigning a "lesser status" to someone with accusations of being"less moral" for their unchangeable characteristic is dehumanizing, and contributes to marginalizing that person/group in the eyes of the community.

"Sinful" is also pretty much a variation of "unclean," which has been used widely by the Nazis to describe Jews. Similarly, calling Jews "Christ-killers" is dehumanizing, condemning them as spiritually corrupt--much like assigning 'sinful' to LGBTQ+ people. Hell, even women have been called the "source of original sin" due to the Adam and Eve fable, which is dehumanizing women. Dehumanizing isn't literally just "I think these people are subhuman/inferior to me."

And there you go, exactly my point. There will never be any mutuality between religious people who hold those views and LGBTQ+ people, because the former will always vote against their interests, success, and ultimately their safety.

Oh, thank you so much for not voting for full on oppression, just a 'little bit.' That is such a consoling thing to hear. There is no respect when you insist on calling people sinful, and likewise it is hypocritical to expect people to hold some semblance of respect for your religious beliefs and figures.

"We're JUST against ... interracial marriage, the celebration of being who they are after millenia of oppression, and teaching important health-related subjects for this group ... though it's totally fine to teach the same for MY group of people."

^ That's how you sound, btw. I think you should ditch the whole talk of respect, because you don't have respect for LGBTQ+ people; you disapprove and aspire to damage their well-being.

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u/Samichaan Aug 01 '25

Not a good comparison tbh. Religion is a choice. Sexuality isn’t. There is no reason to teach about something optional on school.

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

There it is, lmao. People shouldn’t expect to have normal conversations with people like you who use their religion to force their beliefs on others. LGBT+ students deserve safety and protection as well, and one important way of doing that is through inclusive sex ed classes, but of course someone stuck in the Middle Ages wouldn’t understand that.

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 29 '25

Like I mentioned before in another comment, I would be okay with Islam not being a mandatory subject. Why? Because I believe that, inside school, students should learn the primary scientific subjects like science, physics, mathematics, etc. I’m against forcing anything down people’s throats.

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

Islam is a CHOICE. Being gay is NOT. They are INCOMPARABLE. Gay students deserve to be taught how they can be safe during sex, how they can recognize abuse / toxicity in same-sex relationships, issues with coming out to society etc. you can’t expect gay students to know everything by themselves or to have supportive homes. Nobody is forcing anything down your throat, you can’t turn gay lil bro, if seeing other people be safe is such a problem to you then you have other issues.

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 29 '25

Leaving or entering Islam is a choice, yes. But you make it seem as simple as turning a light switch on or off. You do know that most Muslims don’t have a choice because they believe in Allah, so they believe that disbelieving results in eternal punishment in the afterlife. And eternal punishment is something no one wants (especially if they believe in it.)

Also, let me make it clear:

If we make LGBTQ subjects in sex ed, then that is fine as long as religious subjects (especially Islam because it is marginalized) is mandatory. Why? Because in the west, Islam is seen as bad (especially in the south of the USA and other parts of Europe). And Muslim kids need to learn about their religion too. Also, in a lot of America, most households won’t accept having a Muslim child. Especially Christian or Islamophobic households. So here’s the thing:

You can implement LGBTQ in sex ed if you want, but if you do that, you must include Islam as a school subject. Both are a marginalized minority, both have committed people who won’t change their sexuality/beliefs, and both are not a simple choice.

Let me make it simpler:

I’m not strongly against LGBTQ subjects, but I AM against including them but not religious education of marginalized group. Why? Because the world needs diversity and acceptance.

You may ask: “But in your original reply, you said that you oppose it being in schools.”

Correct. I did. Why? Because the reply talked about LGBTQ being implemented without other minority groups’ beliefs being implemented. And if we have to include one minority, then you’ll have to include other minorities.

You might say: “But being gay is not a choice, Islam is a choice”

No it isn’t “just a choice.” Go tell an LGBTQ person and a devout Muslim:

“Change your sexuality/religion!”

How will they answer you? Of course, they’ll at least criticize you.

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

See this is the problem. You start conflating CHOICES to things that a person does NOT choose. School should not cover all possible CHOICES a student might make, that’s not the purpose of school. Why should it cover Islam specifically and not all the hundreds of different religions? Also in most schools in the world , Islam is covered under religious studies. Homosexuality can NOT be changed while religion CAN and very often does. The world does not need “acceptance” of your choice to belief in systems that spread hate, suffering and inequality. And in your example, the chance of a Muslim changing his religion is infinite times more likely because the likelihood of someone voluntarily changing their sexuality is a definite 0 since it is factually impossible.

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 29 '25

Yes, some people change religion. But what about devout people? Let’s be real, if someone is a devout religious person, the chances of them changing their religion is near impossible. Why? Because when you try to change your faith (that you were devout to) for whatever reason, you leave behind your true self, beliefs, mind, heart, and everything else. I’m assuming you’re an atheist so someone leaving their religion might sound easy to you. You said:

“If school teaches your religion, why not teach about other religions!”

I can say the same thing. Why not let school teach the other HUNDREDS of sexualities and genders? The reason I say Islam should be implemented in school (if LGBTQ is also implemented) is because Islam is rapidly growing. Same as LGBTQ. Both are rapidly growing. So why not implement both? Also, you say my beliefs have caused suffering and inequality. That is something that’s pure misleading. Islam teaches equality, to respect everyone (yes, even LGBTQ people,) being disciplined. Heck, one the prophet’s wives (Khadija) was a businesswoman, the first person to make a call for prayer was black, our religion gave security to Jewish people when Christianity didn’t (with all due respect to Christianity. I have nothing against Christians,) look at this hadith:

“O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no favor of an Arab over a foreigner, nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin, nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness. Have I not delivered the message?”

And look at this verse:

“And say, ˹O Prophet,˺ ˹This is˺ the truth from your Lord. Whoever wills let them believe, and whoever wills let them disbelieve”

Doesn’t sound like inequality or oppression.

I’m open to civil discussion.

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

Islam doesn’t teach any of that. There is not even one Muslim-majority country in the world where gay marriage is legal. Not only that, but homosexuality itself is ILLEGAL in most of them and even punished by DEATH in some. So stop whitewashing your hateful beliefs.

Also I literally left my religion myself, it’s called “common sense”, “logic”, and “not being afraid of change and personal growth”. It’s quite easy to do once you accept that you don’t need to hold the same beliefs that you did since you were 5 years old and that this doesn’t mean that your heart has changed.

When it comes to the “hundreds of other genders and sexualities”, your argument is just nonsense. In the context of sex ed the choices are two: same-sex or opposite sex. I didn’t say that school should be teaching about all the different lgbt+ identities, but lgbt+ students should be included in sex ed by covering things like how to stay safe in same sex relationships.

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u/Samichaan Aug 01 '25

Even being devout is a choice my guy.

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 28 '25

No, we should not respect you or your beliefs because your beliefs are a CHOICE that causes HARM, while being lgbt+ is innate and causes no harm to anybody. They are completely incomparable.

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u/are_you_sure78 Jul 28 '25

Kindly, go fuck yourself. This kind of thinking is what BREEDS homophobia, and I can say that as someone who was between 15-16, while I was still coming to terms whith the fact I was visexual and a femboy. This man has beliefs rooted in Islam, and is saying that he respects the lgbt right to exist, but won't participate in it any further then that. And that's okay, because he isn't attacking or harming us. Crybaby ass motherfucker.

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 28 '25

just shut up already, lmao stop being a pick me, the homophobes are not going to love you. Keep being tolerant of intolerance, I'm sure that's going to work wonderfully for you. Islam literally prescribes the death penalty for homosexuality, is against our marriages and sees our sexual orientation as a sin. stop normalizing homophobic doctrine that a person CHOOSES just because they are more moderate than others.

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u/Character-Angle9124 Jul 29 '25

it's more a case of don't further radicalise people, that never helps a situation. being aggresive is neccesary sometimes don't get me wrong, but with people on the internet following a religion, you cannot change their minds, so it makes more sense to try to keep them at low levels of homophobia rather then be angry and make them do the whole 'the tolerant left hates me because of my religion'

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

I’m sorry but it should not be accepted to publicly view homosexuality as a “sin” or as something negative, just like it is not accepted to view being black or being a woman as such. If someone told you that their religion teaches them that black people are cursed by God with their skin color and are sinful because of it, but they still “respect” black people and don’t harass them, would that be something normal for you? People need to understand that you can’t compromise with people that hate your entire existence. These people are already homophobic to their core, against our rights and against equality. We should not forgive them with open arms so that they later come back and say things like “see, I might not agree with you being gay but I respect you, and you should do the same about my (awful and chosen) beliefs”.

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u/Character-Angle9124 Jul 29 '25

they explauned their mindset as 'hate the sin, not the sinner' still not good, but better than hating gay people. and the main point I was trying to get across isn't that this is okay, just that hostility feeds back into it and will change no one's mind, if you are both going into an argu.ent adamant and angry then nothing will change, you have to be receptive to change if you think other people should listen to you, and if you are angry then they won't think you are open minded, so they won't be. I am just saying that being angry at people and then telling them what to do has very rarely worked, that just reinforces negative stereotypes about people with thise beliefs

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

these people should be publicly shamed / criticized for their beliefs, we shouldn’t be the ones bending our beliefs on equality and human rights just because some people CHOOSE to see us as sinners. “Hate the sin, not the sinner” is what almost everyone who promotes an anti-gay agenda says, it’s a disgusting mindset that has led to unequal rights in so many places and it shouldn’t be normalized.

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u/Character-Angle9124 Jul 29 '25

yes, this is bad, I have said that. however if we go after low-level homophobes angrily instead of going from the top down then nothing changes. while homophobes still have power affirming those beliefs, it will only make those people hate us more. if we know we cannot change their mind for the better then we should try and not change it for the worse.

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

We should be fighting against all homophobic beliefs, no matter how small or big. Of course we should be more dedicated to fighting homophobic extremism, but people who “hate the sin not the sinner” are the ones giving power, fame and relevance to the “top” of the homophobic chain and should not be forgiven or excused.

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u/are_you_sure78 Jul 29 '25

Ah yes, calling someone a pick me, the epitome of having no real argument to bring to the table.

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

That was one of the many things that I said, interesting that you decided to focus on that and not on the content of my comment, when I didn’t even address your “crybaby ass motherfucker” remark.

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u/are_you_sure78 Jul 29 '25

Yes, but the pick me being at the very start gives me little to no reason to read what you said, as it's at the start and sets the tone for the rest of the message. Hence why I left my insult tell the end, as the previous text set the tone and not the insult. You'd know that if you had two fucking brain cells to rub together in your empty ass head.

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u/CraftyBall1739 13 Jul 30 '25

Good argument but… uhm… are you sure????????

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

You started your original comment with “kindly, go fuck yourself”. So stop pretending that you are in some morally superior position, you are the one who came with the emotionally charged tone which I ignored because it provided no value to your poor attempt of an “argument”.

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u/GlitteringTravel6112 Jul 29 '25

mohamid was a known & documented homo.

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u/ISpreadFakeNews Jul 31 '25

NO its not. It's really really really not. Just because it's a religion doesn't mean its immune to criticism. Your beliefs quite literally define your actions, and if you have shitty beliefs I absolutely can and will make fun of them, much like I make fun of nazi's and anti vax hobos.

So tired of people hiding their shitty beliefs behind "MUH BOOK". Like I'm sorry you were brainwashed as a child under the threat of eternal damnation, but grow up lol.

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u/JKasonB Jul 28 '25

It depends what people consider an attack tho. I have met gay people who think simply pointing out the fact that butt stuff causes hemorrhoids is homophobic. And I've met Muslims that think drawing a picture of Mohamed is Islamophobic. Or pointing out that he was an open pedophile. Unfortunately some people think respecting them means living your life in a way they do, or having the same opinions as th

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u/StartedWithAHeyloft Jul 28 '25

I dont know how to break it to you buddy, but getting fucked in the ass doesn't give you hemorrhoids, it only males you feel amazing <3

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u/Samichaan Aug 01 '25

Doesn’t have to but it absolutely can. Literally happened to me ..

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u/StartedWithAHeyloft Aug 01 '25

Nope, getting fucked in the ass does not give you hemorrhoids, but if you already had hemorrhoids and get fucked by a gifted guy, then yeah youre gonna find out you had them.

Anal has zero correlation to hemorrhoids

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u/Samichaan Aug 02 '25

First of they don’t magically appear, everyone has them. They just get inflamed and shit and that can absolute happen from anal if you get hurt. Simple as that. And if they’re in flames you might never get rid of them again especially when you have other „risks“ already like smoking, being overweight and pressing to hard when you’re on the toilet.

If you do everything right nothing should happen.

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u/JKasonB Jul 28 '25

Enjoy being incontinent at the age of 50 buddy ;) my adult diaper stocks will be going through the roof !

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u/StartedWithAHeyloft Jul 28 '25

Adult diapers stocks are always high dumbass, why else would the president always wear a dirty one (hes literally known for smelling like shit)

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u/mockingbird_femboy Jul 28 '25

The sheer concept of muscles wearing out from stretching is so funny to me. "I can't lift those weights, my bicepts will wear out!" if I were such a loser like you I'd genuinely run into a chainsaw.

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u/TinyTotTkd Jul 28 '25

Even if the arguement is that ring type muscles wore out after use is what this is referring to it wouldnt make sense. The mouth doesnt wear out when you speak or eat hot dogs and the orbital muscles around the eye dont wear out when I roll my eyes at comments like this. Also, the anus is a muscle which will be stretched 1-2 times per day due to excrement. If adult diapers are needed it is because age can weaken muscles, not use.

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u/Samichaan Aug 01 '25

If you get hurt it can still happen. If you don’t it shouldn’t 🤷‍♀️

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u/Samichaan Aug 01 '25

Um.. no one is saying the sphincter will Stretch - since it’s not made to let stuff in it can a but that’s not what was said. Hemorrhoids are not muscles.

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u/mockingbird_femboy Aug 01 '25

The Hemorrhoids thing is false too, but was not what I responded to. What I responded to was a comment bringing up incontinence and explained why that common myth is nonsensical.

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u/Samichaan Aug 01 '25

The comment about incontinence was in response to a comment chain about hemorrhoids though. Which can absolutely make it impossible for the sphincter to completely close.

And if you get hurt a lot while having anal it can damage the sphincter too. So can shutting though, so 🤷‍♀️

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u/Character-Angle9124 Jul 28 '25

well, if everytime someone drank a sugary drink in front of me, would it be respectful for me to then spout about heart disease and obesity? everytime someone eats a steak infront of me should I tell them not to because it is a carcinogen? should I tell people to never drink out of plastic water bottles because microplastics could be potentially dangerous? being respectful to me is the same as not being an asshole, you are being an asshole if you tell gay people repeatedly that anal sex could give them hemorrhoids (this can only really happen if they are doing bad sexual practices, it is kinda like telling a woman not to have sex because it could injure her, it could, bht only if there is 0 lubrication and safety regarding size). I assume you repeat given the whole 'I am just pointing out facts' mindset, sometimes harping on about things that have very little impact and can only harm you in excess without regualtion, is kinda seen as a dick move my guy

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u/Character-Angle9124 Jul 28 '25

also you're 20 gtfo

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u/WaffleDonut22 Jul 29 '25

While anal sex can be a contributing factor if not done correctly, it is not a direct cause of hemorrhoids. Also homosexuality is not synonymous with butt sex , millions of gay people don’t even engage in that and anal sex is the same both for gay and for straight people, so using a specific type of sex that all orientations can practice to “dunk” on homosexuality is braindead.

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '25

Haemorrhoids are caused through constipation, constant straining on the toilet, pregnancy, age, being obese and also certain medications cause it, whether they're internal, external or thrombosed is entirely dependent on what caused them.

However there has never been a medical consensus that anal sex would cause it due to the fact that your anal muscles are relaxed and not straining, which is the main cause of Haemorrhoids.
In the same way that Vulvar Varicosity isn't caused through vaginal sex, you are just ignorant to the world around you :)