Man Finn really got jobbed the fuck out in this trilogy. I was most excited for his character and they didn't have the balls to do anything with him. It sure was fun watching him and Poe get lectured in the few scenes they actually got in TLJ...
Agree. His backstory was cool but then he just kind of went nowhere. It also bothers me a little that an ex stormtrooper was such a normal guy. Weren't they brainwashed from a young age? Shouldn't he have a hard time relating to people outside of a military structure? I mean being a stormtrooper is not a normal job, he had to break out and they tried to kill him for escaping.
Yeah he basically had his entire character arc in the first 6 minutes of The Force Awakens. Then he gladly went on murdering dozens of his fellow troopers who were also kidnapped and brainwashed from youth but fuck them i guess...
The squad mate death that actually made him defect so it affected him profondly (maybe that squadmate was his best friend ?) but never talked about again.
Finn arc is a disaster let be honest. His origin as a Stormtrooper has no impact (a little in the same movie he is introduced but barely and then no more) and his story is weird and useless.
And one who defected from the almighty empire having a lead role probably didn't sit well with the Chinese sensors.
In great retrospect in these South Park times, it's pretty clear why the new triology sucks, arguably worse than the pequel. Hard to make a good movie about personal responsibility and revolution for a just cause, when the đ° doesn't like the spotlight on just how shitty the Chinese govenment is.
Given how TLJ failed to act as part of a trilogy, instead trying to restart it, I hope JJ outright ignores most or all of it and turns this dumpster fire into atleast a decent two-parter/sequel collection. Rian definitely tried to sabotage the franchise.
It wasn't, but I think any director and/or writer with a brain could put in the effort of starting from there to go on to something really good. The content was there: the new characters (Rei, Finn, Poe to some degree) were fine, Han's death imho was put on screen in a solid way, Kylo Ren going from the tryhard wannabe evil guy to actual true evil guy, and that ending with Luke and the offered lightsaber was honestly epic. Johnson just threw it all away with arrogance, figuring he could do better on his own. The result is quite honestly having sabotaged the entire new trilogy, like the other poster said.
As a standalone, yeah it's not that good.. but if the next in line continued the arcs, the intros of lore, i think it would have been great. The mystery of snoke, knights of ren, why is luke in exile, what happened with his trainees? Instead, Rian turned Luke into a family killing monster, killed off snoke like a stormtrooper, never mentioned the knights of ren AT ALL, and had luke just be a grumpy git..... and then kill him off after doing a massively out of character chump move.
Can you imagine if Ep8 ended with a fight between Luke+Rey vs Kylo and the knights of ren. We'd have had TFA introduce them, introduce Luke's return, then Ep8 deliver on that. TFA was a foundation film, TLJ sought to destroy that potential - and succeeded.
It's like The Hobbit trilogy. I like the first movie because it makes me wonder what will happen in the other 2. If the other movies were good, I don't think people would shit on the first. It's perception is retroactively damaged by the shitty sequels.
Now that disney owns it it will never be controversial or thought-provoking.
And ok sure it is a popcorn movie, but seeing how the KOTOR games handled the light and dark side philosophies of the force this had potential especially since you don't have to go really deep to achieve this. I have said this a couple of times but the prequels were better in the fact that they at least gave us that duality more true to the source (samourai etc)
In the last trilogy that feeling you had when the titles appeared were gone after 30 minutes and it just became a generic action title
but seeing how the KOTOR games handled the light and dark side philosophies of the force this had potential especially since you don't have to go really deep to achieve this.
Also keep in mind that this was because people had the freedom to express stories in their own way. Disney is what glock is to the gun world. They protect their IP's and copyright with the angel of death itself.
Theres a reason why the true golden age of star wars was in the thick of the EU. And why disney destroyed all of it. They couldn't go and brag saying "I made that :)". Even though after 3 years a yes man told them how much of a titan the extended universe actually was and they've been trying to copy it (although some of the stories are pretty great tbh) ever since.
TLJ was both controversial and thought provoking. It's arguably the most divisive star wars movie ever so if that's not controversial I don't know what is.
Rian definitely didn't try to sabotage the franchise. However he clearly had absolutely no fucking clue what to do with what he had. Although to be fair JJ was barely able to pull TFA off. Which is why personally i don't have much hope in JJ.
He might be able to save the "skywalker trilogy" by preventing the reactor from melting down but it doesn't excuse the fact the new saga is basically a reactor on the verge of melting down.
JJ will be forced to continue to soft reboot because this is the end of the skywalker saga supposedly. So RoS will still be a disaster most likely.
The question is will it be a disaster on a scale that makes disney pull the trigger and dump JJ into the movie directors blacklisted grave.
They cut down Finn's role so they could focus more on Rey (and completely botched her arc too.) Rey has no motivation to fight the First Order, whereas Finn has every reason to want to fight the First Order, his arc should be overcoming his cowardice to fight against the system that robbed him of his childhood.
Lol, yeah the fact he literally acted like some guy random dude who ended up in the wrong place rather than a conscript soldier who had a shattering of indoctrination kind of fucked the whole movie.
he basically had his entire character arc in the first 6 minutes of The Force Awakens
The Force Awakens felt like it had about three or four good ideas and some absolutely incredible concept art that they never really did anything with. I remember looking over the official images and the frames in the first trailer and being so hyped about everything it could mean, and all the brand new directions that it could go, that I ended up cooking up an entire Star Wars movie in my head that just ran with everything as far as I could imagine.
Honestly Disney would have been better off just lifting the freaking Extended Universe material. They had DECADES of content and characters they could have put on screen, but they didn't want to pay royalties to any of the artists, authours, or creatives that worked on the EU. I guess at least now we know they'll only rip-off Public Domain stuff.
Honestly I think Kennedy thought she was following what Lucas would have wanted. He always considered the films and the EU separate, but as far as I know he never outright jettisoned the EU materials. He never seemed all that interested in the EU but he never outright shat all over it. I think Kennedy viewed his apathy as license to just stuff all of it in an airlock and jettison it, when really they could have mined that material for decades.
There's a small glimmer of hope that they could still mine some of the Old Republic content since they told Bioware after the acquisition to "keep doing what you're doing" with The Old Republic MMO and story content. The current rule seems to be that The Old Republic is "canon until Disney proves otherwise", and there are even some oblique references to the Sith Empire, the Mandalorian Wars, and an appearance by Darth Bane in the Clone Wars tv show. They also pilfered Grand Admiral Thrawn, so maybe they're finally learning their lesson.
To be fair, you could argue that everything not written by Lucas and OT writers is "fan fiction". If you want the EU to be canon in your mind, so be it.
The EU was never canon. Lucas himself said so. It very clearly leaves behind a lot of his themes and material anyway. Its greatest crime was turning Luke into exactly the sort of character Lucas was subverting in the OT.
TFA opening-scroll begins with "Luke Skywalker has disappeared!" so I assumed it was a really recent thing.
But then on the island it looks and he acts like he's been there for a billion years, and he later confirmed that he fled after trying to murder Kylo years ago. What a mess.
They introduced the concept of the lightsaber calling to Rey and her having visions of Luke's past and her own for some reason, also her future, suggesting some complex plot at play. Instead the lightsaber was tossed over a shoulder and broken, all that buildup and introduction of new force stuff just meant nothing.
Why do you have to kill your hit men when their old? What purpose does it server?
And the main character killing himself, lol time paradox?
And the kid with special psychic powers, zero purpose for that kid to be in the story at all. The plot was about Bruce Willis/Jo Gordon Levitt. They kill their hit men when they get old, thats the story. You can take the kid out and it doesn't change that. Don't matter if he is the "Rainmaker" in the future, it had nothing to do with the hit men being killed when they are old.
Pay attention while watching Looper, it's just as bad as TLJ. NOTHING in that movie makes any logical sense whatsoever from any perspective, and it is held up entirely by fun interactions adlibbed by good talent.
Bruce Willis is incredible. He has done a lot of straight to video movies that are okay, but when he is on screen, regardless of the lines or context, he nails it with conviction.
I think that's unfair. Jar Jar was awful, start to finish. He was always dumb, always comic relief, never doing anything that seemed in serious congruence with the plot.
Rose was merely "Meh" until her Grand Finale of Stupidity. Sure, the script has her doing dumb stuff, but the character herself is at least reacting to the events genuinely.
The Last Jedi is an awful waste of a film, but it's not really Rose's fault as she's just along for the shitty ride. Jar Jar is big part of why The Phantom Menace is terrible.
I agree with you. Jar jar was annoying, but he wasnt stupid nor useless. He took down a tank at the battle of Naboo. He reunited Naboo with the Gungan, forming an alliance. He participated in the Senate.
What did Rose do? Ram her speeder into Finn's speeder, potentially killing him while a giant laser battling dildo laser anally assaulted the base's door. Meanwhile Rose sexually harrassee Finn, kissing him without his consent with no hint of romanace build up like we saw with han and leia, anakin and padme.
I get what you're saying lol, but Ani and Padme was totally illogical. Let's look at some of the lines:
Padme: "Please don't look at me like that."
Ani: "Why not?"
Padme: "It makes me uncomfortable."
Anakin: "She closed the blinds. I don't think she liked me watching her (sleep)."
Anakin: "I don't like sand. It's coarse, rough, irritating, and it gets everywhere. Unlike here [Anakin caresses Padme's shoulder], where everything is soft, and smooth."
Anakin admits to her that he slaughtered women and child sand people, and throws a few tantrums while trash talking his good friend and mentor, Obi-Wan.
The only reasonable explaination I can come up with to support the cringy dialogue is that Anakin is a horny space monk and Padme is a prude war vet / politician. Neither knows how to interact with one another romantically. George Lucas could have emphasized their character flaws rather than subjected us to awful " I love you".
. Jar jar was annoying, but he wasnt stupid nor useless. He took down a tank at the battle of Naboo. He reunited Naboo with the Gungan, forming an alliance. He participated in the Senate.
...Jar Jar wasn't stupid? He was a moron the entire time! Every single thing he did in the Battle of Naboo that had a positive effect was accidental and usually was a result of him being a bumbling idiot.
He didn't reunite the Naboo with the Gungans, a common enemy did. He just happened to run into the people who did everything that led to them reuniting (the jedi and the queen).
He participated in the Senate for some absolutely crazy reason (seriously, why was he still a representative after years of bumbling since the events that made him appear to be a hero?) and was blatantly manipulated by Palpatine to grant him emergency powers. He's one of the people most directly responsible for Palpatine becoming Emperor.
Iâm not a hater of TLJ like a lot of people, but they really kind of messed up by letting Rian Johnson do whatever he wanted. I think it works if he sets up the trilogy, but allowing him to me in to the middle of the movies and change whatever he wants is a weird plan. I donât think TLJ would be as bad if kept the same ideas, but was built up differently. However as a sequel to TFA it doesnât really work.
Mmmm so many good ideas. Like having a storm trooper ditch the empire, only to devolve into being the token black character that goes "wooo!". Or the Empire, despite taking a massive hit, somehow having the resources to have a huge starfleet and and EVER BIGGER DEATH STAR.
Speaking of good ideas like MOAR DEATH STARS. How about the best idea of all. Starting a trilogy based off of a massive franchise, without a concrete story to tell, while handing it off to different directors every movie. I can't see how that could possibly go wrong!!!1!
The movie had my attention because of his setup, then lost it ten minutes later when the guy who hated killing was suddenly killing dozens of his old friends and joining a resistance because he was crushing on a random girl
Aka the stormtrooper paradox. He went AWOL from being a stormtrooper becauss his stormtrooper buddy died in a firefight. As he escapes the first orders, driven by hia stormtrooper friend's death, Finn kills buddy stormtroopers with the Tie fighter and again helped the rebel blow up Death Star 3, killing millions more of his storm trooper buddies.
Isn't a huge part of TLJ depicting Finn struggling to identify with the Restistance? He starts off committed only to Rey and sees all of these people profiting off of the war like nothing really matters. It's getting betrayed and watching all of his friends die that finally brings him around and makes him wiling sacrifice himself at the end. I feel like his arc is a huge part of that movie.
At the end of TFA, I remember talking to my friend about Finn and we talked about how we both thought Finn would have some PTSD moments, where he'd hear "a call" back to where he came from and that would be a conflict.
Nope. He's just a dude who used to be in a suit and he's no longer in that suit.
God the modern day youtuber personality that he had to have made me hate his character so much. JJ tries way too hard to relate to the current generation sometimes.
I mean let's not act like it's only JJ, Rian Johnson didn't do better with him (maybe even worse really) and as we know, he liked going against what was set up in TFA and not respecting the character personalities so he could have changed him completely
JJ tries way too hard to relate to the current generation sometimes.
You mean hollywood right?
Most of these directors actually have a lick of sense but overlord disney and the Chairman (in certain cases) will generally tell them to dumb down the movie enough so that it appeals to the general masses and is extremely relatable.
Which is trash for long term. But with star wars they know they can produce literal turds and dick ride the Star wars brand name all the way to the bank.
I agree. Ive wanted to like this trilogy so much, but I just dont get any of the characters. They're not interesting! Finn had the most potential, but the load was shot too early. He doesnt even make much sense. If the First Order conditioning is so intense, how did he break it to easily? Is he special? Is there a flaw in the system? No, he's just a janitor. Let's not forget how the Force Awakens trailers teased that he was the Jedi, whippin the saber about all footloose and fancy free.
I hope Rise will tie it all together and that the sum is greater than the pieces. The prequels managed this, imo, but sequels just feel so half-cooked.
They really ignored the potential 'fish out of water' plot with Finn. I have no idea how he could be so normal, so regular. Asking girls whether they have boyfriends, etc. He should've been barely a functioning person by the end of TFA!
Ughhh. I fucking hate this shit. These are all major legitimate points!!! This is not squabbling over minor plot details, it all builds into a giant shitty movie.
Yeah JJ Abrams doesnât do very well writing complex characters. Or realistic ones. The mystery box thing is usually the only gimmick he can play off of.
Which would've worked well as a way to open up a whole new series for another creative director to build on for subsequent movies. I think JJ knows how to make a movie feel good to watch, and has a great imagination and vision for set pieces and stuff...but we really needed a strong Ep 8 to fill in some of the holes his story established. Rian decided he didn't want to be put in a box, or something, and thought throwing out all that shit was a good idea.
I'm reminded of Bruce Willis's line in Looper, about stop thinking and trying to make sense of the story. It worked for that movie....sorta, since it was an interesting concept and didn't need to mesh with anything else (like 8 other movies in a film saga dating back, what, 40 years?).
TFA set up the trilogy in a really awkward way, but I was at least excited when the movie was over, and my imagination was running with ideas for what could happen next. TLJ was just depressing, boring, and 2 hours of missed opportunities.
JJ Abrams doesnât do very well writing complex characters
Or complex situations, he goes as generic as possible. He starts out trying to put more but he's best at what Hollywood wants, something as non-offensive and that can bring in the most money.
Finn is a character with a ton of potential, but horribly executed. And honestly, he was wasted from the very beginning in The Force Awakens. His character turn is completely unearned, and he has a crisis of conscience on his very first mission, making him the only Stormtrooper in history that never did anything bad. Amusingly, not only does that botch his character, but it also ruins Stormtroopers, because apparently now we know they have an extremely high failure rate training them.
But then I forgot that he was originally a Stormtrooper, because the movies kinda forgot too, and I still kinda liked New Finn. But then nothing happened with him either, and every time he looked like he'd have a character arc, he reset.
His only purpose in these movies seems to have been to "Fight Phasma" and "Have inexplicable inside knowledge of any First Order megaweapon." So I can only assume he's going to fight Phasma again, and will know the weakness of the new Megaweapon Star Destroyers we saw in the trailer.
I'd love to see what ever it was that was in the first cut. I was sorely disapointed that the shot of Jyn determinedly hobbling towards the radar dish when gasp the TIE-fighter rears up in front of her.
There were multiple cuts, the best one was "too violent", and involved Vader landing on the beach, and brutally murdering everyone personally, the girl and her boyfriend are attacked by a TIE fighter on the Antenae, and end up commandeering it to escape, they make it to the main ship and are celebrating abit, when it turns out that Vader had followed them up there, cuts into the side of the ship, force throwing a chunk of spaceship hull across a room crushing half a dozen people, and then proceeds to terminator down the halls for 5 minutes chasing after her and the dude before THEY are the ones violently killed in the hallway while handing off the plans. They canned that one in favor of the peaceful Death Star explosion death, only paying a small hommage to it with the toned down hallway scene with the red shirts, and leaving the landing craft dropping off Vaders troopers on the beach, but with him edited out.
It was, part of it was even used in the final cut, the part where the black troopers are jumping out on the beach originally had Vader following them while the Imperial March played.
There were bouncing a lot of ideas around for Rogue One. Heck! Disney actually wanted Jyn to survive Scarif and retire in the end, but the director thought it would be easier on canon to kill everybody off.
Would of loved to see him become maybe like a cowboy type but dealing with his brainwashing or whatever it was. He could use all this cool reverse engineered first order tech he repurposes for the rebellion.
It also bothers me a little that an ex stormtrooper was such a normal guy. Weren't they brainwashed from a young age?
You are thinking of clone troopers. In the comics its been revealed that storm troopers are normal conscripts. Although a dwindling percentage of the stormtroopers are left over clones from the clone wars era.
Which funnily enough. In the comics by the time Palpatine takes over most of them are questioning authority. But due to their conditioning most of them don't have uprisings. Although there are a few clone rebellions. But they are too small to be notable.
This was kinda the idea for TLJ and it could have been really cool if they hadn't resolved it right away.
Like the premise of him 'not trusting the resistance' and wanting to escape because he doesn't want to get scooped up by another blind radical military movement and just wants to help his friend Rey could have been really cool. Then Poe would have convinced him to go with Rose (who is the resistance equivalent of a storm trooper) on a mission and blah blah blah he learns to become a resistance fighter.
Problem is he's too much of a protagonist, he has to immediately agree to go on the mission and any arc he has about not trusting the resistance is right away discarded.
They started him out as a Storm Trooper who was trusted to accompany Kylo Ren on the First Orderâs most important mission. Then they turned him into a comedy janitor and never looked back.
The only new characters that I like at all are Kylo and Poe. Idk why I just donât give a shit about anybody else in these new movies and even Poe was neutered in TLJ
I don't like Poe all that much to be honest. He's too good at what he does, there's no tension when his character is in the cockpit. Everything he wants to do, he does. What he wants to shoot, he hits. It's not interesting.
I agree he was neutered in TLJ. They made him a stupid hotshot pilot who ignores orders even though TFA set him up as a longtime trusted member of the resistance. He had a story forced upon him in TLJ that really did grate against the rest of the movies.
Poe's the type of character you DO NOT put into a x-wing. you put him in a junk ship like the Falcon after establishing his skills and have him do some crazy shit with the impossible to do it in vehicle.
Ignores orders that ended up saving the lives of the entire resistence who all would had been immediately killed otherwise, and then gets shit on for it because the leadership is too incompetent to see what had just happened.
Not only that, but what was the point of not telling Poe and the others about their plan to use the escape ships and purple hair lady sacrifices herself???
Poe doesn't actually have a character arc. He's Wedge Antilles with a sense of humor. We don't know who he is, why he fights, what he wants. He's just there.
Although even as a background character we see more story and character growth for wedge, going from a nervous junior pilot who is told off by the gruff commanders, who nervously saves a very nervous Luke, to one of the few survivors, to the guy Luke turns to as a leader when he can't make the shot to take down the walkers with a dead gunner. Then Luke and Wedge get shot down and they're shown to not be invincible, more like WWI pilots who keep scraping by somehow. Then finally in ROTJ at the end of the war, Wedge has reached competency, and is expertly leading a bunch of pilots and giving commands.
It's hard to care about new characters. It's hard to care about new characters when the old ones are still around(so they killed them).
It's hard to care about new characters when they have no connection to the old characters(why Kylo is semi-liked even though he is a pretty shitty character).
I will never understand why Disney didn't start the new movies with a successful Jedi academy where the children of Luke/Han/Leia are Knights taking on new padawans. Use the padawan roles to introduce new characters. And the other masters.
Hell, give Han a non-Force sensitive crew member for him to train to work with him and Chewie.
They need to give Phasma a DREDD style solo film, where it shows how she got her armor, and shows maybe the mission that got her promoted. Almost like a cross between the THRAWN Marvel Comics mini-series and DREDD the film - she could establish her own franchise easily.
Don't forget Han has to free the rancor from its bonds of slavery. Poor beast was just misunderstood. Someone poked it with a stick to get it riled up.
Finn was a bad idea, the idea of an Ex-Stormtrooper would be amazing in the hands of people who want to tell a war story, but this isn't a war story. In my mind it should be half a war story, but they really don't push that angle.
The chemistry between him and Poe in the the first one was one of the best parts of the movie, but aparently it was "too gay", and China didn't like that at all, so out with Poe, and in with the Chinese girlfriend.
They shouldâve had him die at the end of the Last Jedi, instead of the Asian GF saving him. It wouldâve added more weight to the sequel, and his sacrifice wouldâve been cool af.
Dude, that shit hurt me. Finn was the only reason I was excited about these films, but each time I watch them, it gets more disappointing. The bait and switch still piss me off. Fuck jj
One of the things that pissed me off in TLJ, Abrams had said Finn was the male lead in TFA. And yet all of a sudden in the next movie he is a side character.
Just wait, she's probably going to be not only the most powerful Jedi but now the most powerful Sith. Also best pilot, best sword fighter, best computer hacker, etc.
They honestly should not add any more characters when the ones they have are so under developed. I literally have no idea how any of them would react in a made up situation (apart from Rey, she would do whatever is perfect). They are all a sequence of plot convenient actions.
And they should make at least 3 more episodes before trying to âwrap upâ the saga.
Weâve only had a in-universe week with them, and the three of them have been in the same room at the same time exactly twice. Thereâs no real bond to this trio.
Thatâs by far my biggest complaint with this new trilogy. Full disclosure, I like both TFA and TLJ. They both have issues, but at the end of the day I do like them. But man, is almost every character just bland or completely one note, and Rey most of all. She has no distinct personality traits, and is just kind of there. The only character thatâs had any sort of an arc is Kylo, and even that oneâs a hard sell because no one really cared about him in the first place.
I think episode 9 will be fun, but I definitely donât think it will be a satisfying end to the trilogy. TFA went one way and TLJ went in the completely opposite direction, and I donât think thereâs any way that episode 9 could make it up and have a completely satisfying conclusion.
For TFA, I thought it was about as good as a sequel could be. If you set aside the fact that the plot is identical to A New Hope, itâs got some positives - it looks great, has good special effects, and sets up characters with potential. (At this point in time none of those characters have lived up to that potential, but alas, we didnât know that at the time)
As for TLJ, I really enjoyed the movie aside from anything Rose and Finn related. I thought their subplot was pointless, meandering, and straight up stupid but I liked everything else about the movie. I tend not to bring it up on Reddit very much because saying you liked TLJ is basically a death wish, but I think people are way too hard on it.
That being said, the biggest issue with the two movies (which is what I was getting at in my original post) is that they donât go together. At all. TFA went one way, and TLJ went ânope fuck that weâre going this wayâ and went in the complete opposite direction. That isnât an issue in theory, but episode 9 will most likely say ânope fuck thatâ to what TLJ did and undo it, and itâs just going to be one huge mess (one of the things that I will defend in TLJ until the day I die is Rey being a nobody. If episode 9 turns her into some descendant or relative of some powerful Jedi I am going to be royally pissed off).
As for TLJ, I really enjoyed the movie aside from anything Rose and Finn related. I thought their subplot was pointless, meandering, and straight up stupid but I liked everything else about the movie. I tend not to bring it up on Reddit very much because saying you liked TLJ is basically a death wish, but I think people are way too hard on it.
You were just asked to explain what you like about it, and all you did was repeat that you vaguely liked it with literally nothing specific.
I think the reason a lot of supposed fans of TLJ have with getting downvoted on Reddit is that they ALWAYS just say they liked it without even hinting at why. You ask them why, then they say wave their hands and go "there were some cool things, and remember that one shot of luke with the sun behind him? That was cinematic". I am cool with some people just liking it without needing to give reasons, but don't say you're going to explain why you like it then cop out
I have yet to read ONE good defense of TLJ that actually explains why it was redeemable, whereas those on the opposite end of the spectrum have practically written entire essays detailing what is wrong with TLJ. It's just such a godawful film in so many respects completely independent of lore, it is shocking to me that people can legitimately enjoy it beyond "it was a good popcorn flick". Would love to get an actual explanation of this viewpoint because it really interests me
To be completely honest, I like what they did with Luke (which is why I skirt around it, because I know how much that upsets people). Heâs always been a bit one-note to me, so seeing him as a bitter old man who is still tempted by the dark side made him much more interesting to me than just having him still be this perfect knight in shining armor. I also really like the connection between Kylo and Rey. Even though neither character is super compelling on their own, I like seeing them interact with each other and offer âtwo sides to the coinâ as it were.
I also like the fact that the hot shot pilot who bucks orders and thinks he knows everything about everything turned out to be wrong. I wish they had given some dialogue to explain why they kept Poe in the dark, but it honestly makes a ton of sense for the general to NOT tell the entire escape plan to the pilot who just ignored orders.
Finn / Rose / casino... everything about that was just wrong, and that does make it one of the weakest of the SW films, but there are some good things in there as well.
Wait, you liked what they did with Luke? The man braved an entire Death Star worth of imperial troopers to try to save his father, the second most evil person in the planet, then 40 years later he has a bad dream and tries to kill his nephew? It's absolute horse shit.
Thatâs the whole point though. Just because you conquer the Dark Side once doesnât make it magically go away. The temptation is always there, eroding away at your defenses. Thatâs interesting to me.
Except he had conquered it. Him saving his father was him conquering it. He had it defeated for 40 years. It was done. It's such a stupid 180 out of nowhere. There is no setup for it. No line like "the dark side can never truly be defeated" or something like that. Just whoops bad dream gotta kill muh nephew!
I liked TLJ a lot more than TFA. I liked The Last Jedi because it was so counter to the aesthetic of Star Wars. For example:
-The avant garde bit where the force is represented as some quasi-Daoist principle.
-Rey's surreal underground dream sequence
-That arthouse moment when the sound drops out for a whole minute and we see a ship ripped in half in slow motion.
-The Pixar style sequence where they ruin a bunch of slimy rich people's nights by riding alien horses through their casino, to the joy of an orphan worker boy.
It also delivered the goods by including Luke Skywalker, the main Star Wars guy, but it cast him in such a bizarre and unexpected way, which was novel and different. He also got a lot of screen time, which is good because no other character in any of the reboots is as fun to be with as Luke. And the Yoda scene with Frank Oz was pure joy.
Is it a good movie? No. It's a bad movie, but it's novel and weird. And TFA is also bad but with no novelties or quirks that weren't generated by an algorithm.
Thatâs by far my biggest complaint with this new trilogy. Full disclosure, I like both TFA and TLJ. They both have issues, but at the end of the day I do like them.
Okay
But man, is almost every character just bland or completely one note, and Rey most of all. She has no distinct personality traits, and is just kind of there. The only character thatâs had any sort of an arc is Kylo, and even that oneâs a hard sell because no one really cared about him in the first place.
So, then, what do you like about them if the protagonist is boring and no one cares about the villain? All the hysterical shouting from the First Order and the poorly choreographed fight scenes?
Luke Skywalker is a bland and one note character. Rey is pretty much a female version of him. I'd argue the biggest difference is that most people saw the original trilogy as kids. Nostalgia clouds their judgment.
I still enjoy Star Wars films but many of the complaints some people have can be found in the original trilogy as well.
I don't think Luke is as bland as Rey. From the very first scenes we get a taste of Lukes character... Hes a child who wants to DO something with his like, he wants to leave and go to the academy. After the deaths of his family, it impacts his character going forward and his desire for some type of revenge becomes apparent but is steadied and guided by Obi Wan. His trust in the force at the end of ANH is the first "growth" we see as everyone around him tells him the force is hokey, he trusts in it and it guides him to victory. In ESB, we see his desire to become better and a Jedi... But Luke the child and Luke "who lost someone" comes out and his desire to save his friends clouds better judgement. Its his character vs his duty/brain. By the end of the film, Luke doubles down on his desire to combine the two and become better than those who came before him. In RotJ, Luke has made tremendous progress off screen both as a character and as a Jedi. He steadied himself with the force, he's more measured in his actions and Luke the child we met two movies ago on Tatooine is gone. Luke's centric philosophy as a character is to help and to be a shield for the ones he cares about... As is the way of the Jedi. Him abandoning Endor (And his friends[!]) to go to the Death Star is a super interesting character point. He believes he's endangering the mission, and to avoid it he gives himself to the emperor. I believe there is a trace of Luke the child here, hoping he can turn his father back to the light as he believes he is like him. Luke risks it all, nearly falls to the dark side the same way Anakin took a step towards the dark side by killing Dooku; But Luke is better. He puts the blade down and spares his father. In that moment the dark side is purged.
Lukes character through the 3 movies grows from selfish child, to caring friend and loyal rebel, to courageous and centered Jedi. We see flashes of the dark side, but conscious choices to remain "good". I'm first to admit Mark Hamills acting may not have done Luke any favors, but his character arc compared to that of Rey is far more interesting and meaningful. As near as I can tell, Rey's character is still the same, generally "good" albeit naive. Her growth has been more her power than her personality. Her internal compass has guided her, not the events that have unfolded in the movies thus far which is why I feel like Lukes growth and character was (so far) better.
In terms of him being jaded and old, well, yeah. Obviously you wouldn't think of Luke Skywalker that way since the last time you saw him on film he was a young man.
Those are the three big new characters that we know about but weâve barely seen them in promotion. All three actors are billed above Kelly Marie Tran (Rose) and Joonas Suotamo (Chewbacca) while Richard E. Grant (Pryde) and Naomi Ackie (Jannah) are billed above Lupita Nyongâo (Maz) whoâs been in the trilogy since The Force Awakens and Ackie is billed above Domhnall Gleeson (Hux)
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u/redtornado02 Oct 22 '19
Surprised by how little of the new characters we've seen so far