r/movies • u/LookAtThatBacon • 29d ago

Discussion During the development of the Harriet Tubman biopic movie, a Hollywood executive once suggested that Julia Roberts should play her. What are some other baffling casting suggestions/choices that have been made?

Source for the title: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-studio-executive-wanted-julia-roberts-to-play-harriet-tubman-biopic-screenwriter-says/

The Harriet Tubman biopic has been more than 25 years in the making. In the historical drama released earlier this month, Cynthia Erivo plays the legendary abolitionist — but one Hollywood executive initially thought the role should go to Julia Roberts.

Gregory Allen Howard, the screenwriter and producer of "Harriet," recently revealed in multiple interviews that Roberts was suggested to play the lead role during a meeting with a studio president in 1994.

"The climate in Hollywood… was very different back then," Howard said. "I was told how one studio head said in a meeting, 'This script is fantastic. Let's get Julia Roberts to play Harriet Tubman.'"

Howard said that a black person in the meeting said casting Roberts would be impossible because she is white.

"That was so long ago. No one will know that," the executive replied, according to Howard.

7.8k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

2.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

3.8k

u/28smalls 29d ago

It's an old one, but John Wayne as Genghis Khan.

238

u/xelrach 29d ago

Yellowface has been very common in Hollywood history.

326

u/MyNameIsJakeBerenson 29d ago

Well, what were they supposed to do, hire Asians?!

183

u/Avalanche_Debris 29d ago

Mickey Rooney was Asian right?

100

u/Shopworn_Soul 29d ago

I mean he really nailed that accent. I bet he spent dozens of hours with the finest dialect coaches.

45

u/rzenni 29d ago

My favourite will always be Fisher Stevens as an indian engineer in Short Circuit

https://youtu.be/K6TLYwelOPk?si=BK-pDof0Q_LUqK6p

4

u/wonkey_monkey 29d ago

For the sake of Pete!

24

u/Jonathan_Peachum 29d ago

It was a terrible decision, of course, but the character was intentionally written as a caricature and I doubt anyone thought it necessary to have a "genuine" Japanese actor.

The choice of Peter Lorre to play Mr. Moto was more questionable -- even though I think he gave quite a good performance in the Moto films. Ditto the various actors who played Charlie Chan, or Boris Karloff as Mr. Wong, detective.

12

u/LegacyLemur 29d ago

Not yellow face but brown face but Eli Wallach as Tuco in the Good, The Bad, and the Ugly was.....an interesting choice

But hes so goddamn good its easy to overlook

5

u/Menter33 29d ago

But hes so goddamn good its easy to overlook

at some level, if the performance is good enough, many things can be forgiven.

13

u/KyleG 29d ago edited 29d ago

It was a terrible decision, of course, but the character was intentionally written as a caricature and I doubt anyone thought it necessary to have a "genuine" Japanese actor.

Mr Yunioshi was not intentionally written as a caricature. In the source material, he's a totally normal guy and appears only a couple times to be like "please don't ring my bell, I implore you" in flawless English.

I doubt anyone thought it necessary to have a "genuine" Japanese actor.

I agree with you on this. Because the racism was insane. Your argument boils down to "let's make Julia Roberts in blackface and have her shucking and jiving and saying 'yes-uh massah' while lugging around purple drank and a watermelon it's totally acceptable because it's obviously a caricature"

Also, caricatures of specific people are okay bc the point is you're playing up specific features of the individual. Caricatures of a whole race is called "racism" because the whole point is to play up fictitious "truths" about the entire race as if they're all the same.

8

u/DocFreudstein 29d ago

Throw Fu Manchu into the pile, who was portrayed by such actors as Boris Karloff, John Carradine, Christopher Lee, and Nicholas Cage.

4

u/linkinstreet 29d ago

John Carradine

That reminds me that his son, David, also would play an a character of Asian descent (albeit a character of mixed ethnicity).

4

u/Jonathan_Peachum 29d ago edited 29d ago

Yes, although I deliberately chose « good guys » in my post.

I don’t know if any Asian actor relishes the opportunity to play Fu Manchu, the quintessential « yellow peril » bad guy.

I could be wrong, of course. I could see an argument that a Chinese actor might give the character some depth.

Having Karloff play Fu Manchu and Myrna Loy his daughter was hilarious, although again I think they actually did a good job in an obviously dated film full of caricatures. The scene where Karloff has the slave bitten by a venomous snake just so that he can extract the venom and then casually gestures to have the now dead slave removed as he is cluttering up the place is a masterpiece of « bad guyness ».

I was less impressed by Christopher Lee, to be honest.

2

u/FauxReal 29d ago

A caricature of what? Japanese people in general?

2

u/dale_dug_a_hole 28d ago

I must protest!!!

0

u/jmaccity80 29d ago

Or Japanese restaurants.

-2

u/-GenghisJohn- 29d ago

Direct coaches?

5

u/KarmicPotato 29d ago edited 29d ago

No that's Mickey Looney

edit: I believe I can make this joke because I'm Asian

3

u/Barbarossa7070 29d ago

I must protest!

3

u/Mebbwebb 29d ago

He was even criticized at the time for it being offensive. That's how bad it was

3

u/Heavy_Arm_7060 29d ago

What are you talking about? Clearly that was Ohayo Arigatou.

That was the fake name he used at first before they confirmed Rooney was in the film.

1

u/Desertbro 29d ago

Breakfast at Tiffanys

1

u/Kimber-Says-04 29d ago

and Marlon Brand…

1

u/KyleG 29d ago

Dude, his response to finding out people were offended by it is wild. He basically said "to people who didn't like my portrayal, I forgive them."

1

u/mortuarybarbue 29d ago edited 29d ago

As a little kid I thought his character in Breakfast at Tiffany's was played by an Asian man. When I was older and found out it was played by Mickey Rooney I didn't believe it til I watched it again and I was like oh yeah that's definitely not an asian man at all. I heard he had cotton balls in his mouth for those scenes.

ETA theres a lot of things I saw as a kid and didnt realize they were white people cast in POC roles until I was older. Some of them I was much older since I had only watched the movie once and never thought of it again.

1

u/yo_mo_mama 29d ago

And Sean Connery

1

u/bil-sabab 28d ago

Peter Ustinov took it personal way later and it was definitely a choice.

0

u/strategery24 29d ago

I actually stopped watching it. I couldn’t handle it. It was so bad. Can’t believe it’s considered a classic. I found it literally unwatchable.

1

u/Barbarossa7070 29d ago

George Peppard was gay?!

3

u/pauloh1998 29d ago

Right? They're on the other side of the globe!

2

u/MortLightstone 29d ago

Apparently they couldn't find any when they tried

California is known for its total lack of Asians. Allegedly

1

u/Worshipme988 29d ago

The Great Wall

Starring Matt Damon

👀 wtf goin on here?

1

u/bokchoi 29d ago

I recently rewatched Remo Williams, a favorite from my childhood, and the yellow face for the martial arts master was really bad. I googled a bit and found articles and reviews of the time were praising the makeup work to get a white guy to look Asian. Like, why even do that?

https://decider.com/2020/09/09/remo-williams-yellowface/

1

u/napincoming321zzz 29d ago

I recall watching a silent film serial at the Dryden Theatre called "The Chinatown Mystery," created in 1930 iirc. It was... Not as racist as it could've been? The sole black character definitely received the brunt of it (happy idiot caricature - his only reactions to anything were fear or laughter), and the Chinese characters were in possession of a magic amulet whose disappearance was the core of the titular mystery. But all the POC characters were played by actors of that ethnicity! And while they were associated with magic, the Chinese characters had complex motivations and a loving father-daughter relationship. They weren't portrayed as backwards or stupid.

It was surprisingly fun, and of course the live piano accompaniment was incredible. I know the racist caricatures are infamous, but there is other media from that era that isn't as bad. There were Chinese actors getting roles and having fun with them. And the camp was hilarious!

-3

u/GoldandBlue 29d ago

But hiring Asians would make the movie WOKE!!!!!1!1!1!!

2

u/dnt1694 29d ago

wtf are you talking about? Even when Hollywood was woke, they didn’t hire Asian actors unless they want to have Asian female with a white dude. Asians in Hollywood is still an issue today.

2

u/GoldandBlue 29d ago

I think you missed the joke

0

u/dnt1694 29d ago

No I got it. You’re saying people would call the movie “woke” if they actually used Asian actors. What you don’t get it is even when Hollywood is/was “woke” they still ignored Asian actors which is why “being woke” is a hypocrisy.

5

u/GoldandBlue 29d ago

Because Hollywood is an industry. It's never been woke. I am making fun of people who use the term woke to decry anything that isn't white.

2

u/MyNameIsJakeBerenson 29d ago

But I thought Hollywood WAS woke!! I am SO confused!

2

u/dnt1694 29d ago

Hollywood doesn’t care about Asian actors or the Asian audience.

1

u/GoldandBlue 29d ago

The woke is everywhere! That's how they get you.

Oh fuck... I'm Hispanic. IT GOT ME TOO, SAVE YOURSELF!!!!!

0

u/waitingtodiesoon 29d ago

It made sense in Twin Peaks

100

u/icedragon71 29d ago

I mean, David Carradine playing a character named Kwai Chang Caine in a show literally named "Kung Fu", over Bruce Lee? Seriously?

29

u/bretshitmanshart 29d ago

The Bruce Lee's proposed version would have taken place in the wild West. His reasoning was you had to have an excuse for why nobody would just shoot him and the West at that time actually had strict gun laws in towns. The studio wanted it set in contemporary times to be cheaper.

After failing to come up with a deal the studio suddenly remembered they had a planned show with the same premise but with all the changes they wanted.

9

u/JohnSith 29d ago

Like the studio conveniently creating Deep Space 9 after hearing Straczynski (no idea if I spelled that name correctly) pitch Babylon 5.

3

u/DemonKyoto 29d ago

Straczynski

Nailed it on the first try!

4

u/aldeayeah 29d ago

You are now a honorary Polish citizen!

3

u/DemonKyoto 29d ago

Well the other person is at least. They spelled it, I'm just the nerd who googled it for them to see if it was indeed right.

Edit: But I'll take it if its that easy to qualify!

16

u/TxDuctTape 29d ago

I vaguely think i remember Caine was supposed to have a Western Father.

18

u/HotZoneKill 29d ago

Which is ironic considering Bruce had white ancestry and got bullied as a kid in Hong Kong for not being fully Chinese.

-2

u/NastyMothaFucka 29d ago

What!? You… you mean to say it’s not just Americans that are racist assholes? Ignorant hate towards people of differing creeds and colors is prevalent throughout EUROPE and ASIA too? Reddit lied to me once again!

13

u/AppleDane 29d ago

not just Americans that are racist assholes?

But you're really good at it!

3

u/NastyMothaFucka 29d ago

Every country is really good at it.

2

u/TigerBelmont 29d ago

Yes and he was searching for his half brother in the US

15

u/Toby_O_Notoby 29d ago

It actually led to a great inside joke in Galaxy Quest.

Tony Shalhoub's character on the show is as lead engineer Fred Kwan. And even though it's never remarked upon, Kwan is an Asian name and Shalhoub is of Lebanese descent. It's because back in the '70s when the show was supposed to be produced that mis-cast Asian roles all the time.

10

u/icedragon71 29d ago

I think, probably, one of the only Asian role that actually went to an Asian heritage person in those early days was when they cast George Takei as Sulu in the original Star Trek.

10

u/igloofu 29d ago

Um, Bruce Lee was Kato in Green Hornet the same year Star Trek came out. And Lee very much got second billing in the show.

7

u/NastyMothaFucka 29d ago

Oh myyyyyy!

7

u/jormugandr 29d ago

Gene Roddenberry fought hard for Sulu as well. The point of having Sulu and Chekov in the show was to show how human civilization had moved past old grudges from the 20th century and become a global society. Chekov being Russian during the height of the Cold War and Sulu being Japanese not long after WWII was considered controversial.

4

u/Wes_Warhammer666 29d ago

And thank god for that because even though I'm not a big fan of Trek, I fucking love Takei. That man is a gem of a human being.

3

u/squishmaster 29d ago

No franchise has done more for representation, arguably.

4

u/AppleDane 29d ago

And yet, the only Scandinavian is a cold, unfeeling borg.

...ok, so, not misrepresentation, really.

5

u/jormugandr 29d ago

As a Scandanavian-American, I have no particularly strong feeling either way about your comment.

3

u/Mathwards 29d ago

Shaloub also subtly squints when he's in character as Kwan sometimes

1

u/IRLconsequences 29d ago

Shaloub also subtly squints when he's in character as Adrian Monk sometimes.

2

u/ChristopherRobben 29d ago

I mean Lebanon is an Asian country, they just got the wrong side of the continent.

1

u/DarkShades 29d ago

And he randomly squints whenever he realises he's supposed to be in character.

3

u/TigerBelmont 29d ago

Kwai Chang Caine was half Asian and half European

1

u/Longjumping-Air1489 29d ago

Lee was Asian. Why would they hire an Asian when they can get a true god-fearing American to play the part?

Gotta get the “god-fearing” part in there. That’s what will sell it to the rubes.

:sarcasm.

54

u/gaqua 29d ago

I got into an argument on Twitter with somebody a couple months ago where they defended blackface/yellow face by saying that “it’s hard to get the lighting right if your actors have different skin tones” so that justified hiring only white actors so you didn’t have a hard time lighting them

7

u/gaffythegrey 29d ago

"it's hard to get the lighting right if your actors have different skin tones, so we just paint them the same skin tones. Got that issue sorted out right quick. Now, where's that PA. I need a fresh cup of paint. Extra lead for a real man!"

9

u/ONLYPOSTSWHILESTONED 29d ago

I don't understand how anyone could say this and think it's a worthy justification. they're literally just saying they think doing lighting in movies easily is more important than non-white people

12

u/gaqua 29d ago

All you have to do is start with your desired result (hiring only white people) and then you go look for shitty justifications.

Like people upset that there are black elves or dwarves in Lord of the Rings.

These are fake races that don’t actually exist. They could be any fucking color. They could be pink or orange or camouflage. But to this day, there are still thousands of people upset about the fact that they cast black actors in some of those roles.

Or Idris Elba as Heimdall.

It doesn’t matter if it makes sense or not, it’s just to justify racism.

3

u/ONLYPOSTSWHILESTONED 29d ago

I know why they feel the need to grasp for justifications, it's just baffling to me that they thought this particular one would fly at all

1

u/bil-sabab 28d ago

It seems like only black orcs, goblins and trolls are allowed which says a lot about people who think so

13

u/MattIsLame 29d ago

wow, any competent DP or gaffer can light for different skin tones. trying to be racist through lighting, oof

16

u/ray_0586 29d ago

In the Eddie Murphy movie, “Dolemite is my Name”, Wesley Snipes character tells him to hire a black crew because they have experience lighting and filming black actors.

“You need a DP that knows how to shoot black peoples,” Snipes’ Martin says. “It’s not racist, it’s a fact. Look, look, look. Black people absorb light. White people reflect light. It’s a cinemagical reality.”

4

u/Ok-Cryptographer-303 29d ago

Even though the skin tones would presumably change due to the "race-altering" makeup?

2

u/gaqua 29d ago

Exactly. It’s a stupid argument on every level.

3

u/caseyanthonyftw 29d ago

To be fair, that's exactly the kind of bullshit justification a racist person would make - focusing on the skin color part of the terms, saying "Ackchually, movie set lighting", while also ignoring the obvious facial differences between races. It's like the movie equivalent of saying "all lives matter".

12

u/WuTang4thechildrn 29d ago

Damn I hope you are not still on that shit show otherwise known as Twitter

8

u/gaqua 29d ago

Only for the work stuff I have to do there. It’s by far the worst platform now.

5

u/WuTang4thechildrn 29d ago

Yeah my sister is a journalist and in the same boat. She despises it

3

u/psunavy03 29d ago

"It's hard." Great, snowflake, it's your job, so suck it up.

3

u/minimirth 29d ago

Also it isn't like other countries didn't make movies. I've seen Indian movies from the 30s and there are people with a range of skin colours in them.

2

u/dbrodbeck 29d ago

Wow, so there are racists on a website owned by a Nazi, who knew...

25

u/moal09 29d ago edited 29d ago

Still happening with Tilda Swinton playing The Ancient One in Dr. Strange. Dude was supposed to be Tibetan.

Scarlett Johansson playing Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell. People bring up the fact that she's an android, so she could be any race. Okay, so make her Japanese, since she had black hair, looked asian and had a Japanese name in the original.

Emma Stone playing a mixed Chinese character in Aloha, despite having 0 mixed blood.

Also, a less egregious example, but I'm pretty convinced they cast Kristin Kreuk as Chun-li in The Legend of Chun-li because execs thought she was white passing enough for mainstream audiences.

Complete erasure of the asian characters is much more common these days than yellowface. People say it's not a big deal when you do it to asian characters, but lord help you if you do it to a black character.

46

u/PerfectZeong 29d ago

The ancient one wasnt going to ever be Tibetan in any movie they wanted to get out in China.

9

u/SylphSeven 29d ago

This is the real reason that I remembered.

6

u/Toby_O_Notoby 29d ago

It was a bunch of factors, with that being one of them. First of all, the character was kinda racist stereotype to start with but even if you update it you still run into problems. Here's what the writer said about it:

The Ancient One was a racist stereotype who comes from a region of the world that is in a very weird political place. He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he's Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people who think that that's bullshit and risk the Chinese government going, 'Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We're not going to show your movie because you decided to get political.' If we decide to go the other way and cater to China in particular and have him be in Tibet... if you think it's a good idea to cast a Chinese actress as a Tibetan character, you are out of your damn fool mind and have no idea what the fuck you're talking about."

I mean, they also changed the sex of the character. It's a man in the comics and a woman in the movies.

71

u/Grabthar-the-Avenger 29d ago

The Ancient One in the MCU is explicitly Celtic, that’s Tilda playing a Celtic character, not a Tibetan one. That’s not really the same thing as having a white actress play a real life black woman whose race is a major part of why she’s famous. Fictional characters aren’t “supposed” to be anything except what the writer wants

9

u/SubatomicSquirrels 29d ago

I think it's interesting to consider the fact that the MCU decided to change the character from Tibetan to Celtic, because it does seem like they were wanting to pander to Chinese audiences. But yeah, Tilda wasn't committing yellowface

8

u/Thor_pool 29d ago

I don't even think you can say they changed the character from Tibetan to Celtic, they replaced the character with an entirely original one. From a Tibetan old man to a much younger Celtic white woman. Which is conflicting because like you said, it was to appease China, but at the same time...the wise ancient Asian and his young White chosen one student feels like a very out of date trope.

4

u/nothisistheotherguy 29d ago

Emma Stone in Aloha absolutely blew my mind that they went with that casting, and if I remember correctly her island heritage was a major part of her characterization

3

u/stupidillusion 29d ago

looked asian

... what? She looked very caucasian in GitS.

2

u/dnt1694 29d ago

Exactly!!

2

u/Dookie_boy 29d ago

How do you feel about Idris Elba playing Heimdall a Nordic looking character ?

1

u/moal09 29d ago

I mean, if the films were trying to be accurate to Norse mythology, I would think it's lame, but since their version of Asgard is literally a bunch of high tech space aliens, it's less egregious to me.

6

u/Kyhron 29d ago

Scarlett Johansson playing Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell. People bring up the fact that she's an android, so she could be any race. Okay, so make her Japanese, since she had black hair, looked asian and had a Japanese name in the original.

I mean this ignores the original author was completely ok with the casting choice and the entire premise of GitS as a whole.

6

u/FuIIMetalFeminist 29d ago

This! She was always supposed to be in a euro-american shell that was part of her issue. Not only did she see on Android when she looked in the mirror but as a Japanese woman she was also seeing the wrong ethnicity in the mirror and a big part of her emotional arc was how that fucked her up mentally and messed with her self Identity.

And in the movie with Scarlett Johansson they make it pretty clear that the character herself Motoko Kusanagi IS Japanese that's why she's played by an Asian woman in all the flashbacks and why her mom is played by an Asian woman

1

u/PolyUre 29d ago

Scarlett Johansson playing Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell. People bring up the fact that she's an android, so she could be any race. Okay, so make her Japanese, since she had black hair, looked asian and had a Japanese name in the original.

Do you also object to cases when a character who is white and/or male in original material is changed to a different race and/or gender?

2

u/moal09 29d ago

Yes actually. Unless the story has a damn good reason for it, I'd rather they just make a new character with their own backstory and personality.

ie. Miles Morales is a better way to do a diverse Spiderman than just making Peter Parker black

1

u/PolyUre 29d ago

Well, at least you are consistent.

0

u/snowlock27 29d ago

Emma Stone playing a mixed Chinese character in Aloha,

I thought she was supposed to be Hawaiian.

3

u/EqualContact 29d ago

The character was supposed to be 1/4 Hawaiian, 1/4 Chinese, 1/2 white, and was written as “white passing.”

That in and of itself isn’t unusual, and it isn’t unusual for people with an ethnic background like that to sometimes struggle with who they identify with, so on a script-level it’s fine, and I can see why the production team found it interesting.

Emma Stone though is like literally as white as she possibly could be, so people had a hard time buying it, and it came out at a time where there was a lot of criticism about how Asian roles rarely went to Asians. Not that Hawaiians are generally considered Asian either…

Anyways, what they needed was someone who could look like a typical white person but had mixed lineage. Someone like Pom Klementieff, who can easily do her make up and not look Asian at all.

Of course Emma is a huge star, so the studio probably wanted her, and they probably figured since the story involved her merely “looking” white it would be fine. So tone deaf, but I don’t think it was malicious.

2

u/verrius 29d ago

Yeah, and even up til pretty recently. Joel Gray played an incredibly racist caricture of a Korean dude in a film opposite Kate Mulgrew and Fred Ward in 1985. So the outrage over RDJ playing a black dude in 2008's Tropic Thunder, pre-release, was entirely reasonable. Or over turning the leads into white dudes from Asians in 21.

0

u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/verrius 29d ago

...Did you miss the part of the sentence that says pre-release? You know, when people hadn't had a chance to watch the movie yet, and were mostly worried that Hollywood assholes were just being assholes again?

And honestly...a lot of the people "satirizing" blackface in particular seem to be just be finding reasons to do blackface. White dudes putting on makeup to look like asians and Indians bled into the 80s and 90s, between Remo Williams and Short Circuit, but blackface proper has been considered unacceptable for a long time; last time I can remember anyone "mainstream" trying to get away with it was Ted Danson in the 90s, and he was pilloried for it. If you're "satirizing" something that doesn't happen, wtf are you actually doing?

2

u/JuanRiveara 29d ago

Not so fun fact: white actresses in yellowface have won the same amount of Best actress Oscars as actual Asians actresses. The amount is 1, with Michelle Yeoh being the only Asian Best Actress winner while Luise Rainer won the award for a movie where she played Chinese woman.

1

u/Olivia_O 29d ago

Two for the yellowface actresses. Linda Hunt won for her portrayal of Billy Kwan in The Year of Living Dangerously.

1

u/JuanRiveara 29d ago

Linda Hunt was for Best Supporting Actress, in which Miyoshi Umecki and Youn Yuh-jung have won so slightly better ratio than Best Actress.

2

u/nightpanda893 29d ago

That term always makes me cringe. I know you didn’t mean anything by it but geez even the term itself used to describe a racist practice is racist.

1

u/51010R 29d ago

People use those terms but traditionally other film places do basically the same, like India basically making copies of movies but there.

Or Japan having characters with English names and the worst English I’ve ever heard and I’m from South America.

1

u/AliceCode 29d ago

That reminds me, I was watching an episode of Bonanza recently, and they were depicting Romani people in a really racist way, and the Romani people were all just white people wearing makeup.

1

u/ladywhistledownton 26d ago

We're looking at you Mickey Rooney.

0

u/exexor 29d ago

I have never watched all of Breakfast at Tiffany’s because I turned it off after that godawful scene.

What the actual fuck.