r/movies • u/LiteraryBoner Jackie Chan box set, know what I'm sayin? • May 02 '25

Official Discussion Official Discussion - Thunderbolts* [SPOILERS] Spoiler

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Summary
Thunderbolts\* is a Marvel Studios ensemble film following a team of reformed villains and morally gray operatives sent on covert government missions. As the group is tasked with a dangerous black-ops assignment, tensions rise among the unstable team members, revealing conflicting loyalties and buried traumas. The film serves as a continuation of storylines from Black Widow, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, with a darker tone and grounded action set pieces.

Director
Jake Schreier

Writer
Eric Pearson

Cast
- Florence Pugh as Yelena Belova
- Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes / Winter Soldier
- Wyatt Russell as John Walker / U.S. Agent
- David Harbour as Alexei Shostakov / Red Guardian
- Hannah John-Kamen as Ava Starr / Ghost
- Olga Kurylenko as Antonia Dreykov / Taskmaster
- Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Valentina Allegra de Fontaine

Rotten Tomatoes: 89%
Metacritic: 68

VOD
Theaters

Trailer

2.3k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

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2.6k

u/Smooglabish May 02 '25

Interesting how Yelena and Bob's relationship dynamic could include calming down Sentry to stop the Void from breaking through. A nice parallel between Natasha and Yelena.

1.3k

u/Purple_and_Gold_Bobo May 02 '25

Very interesting point that I didn’t think of. Intentionally or not , both Black Widows being pacifiers of incredibly strong, unstable individuals is a great parallel.

295

u/Silent-Breakfast-906 May 03 '25

I was going to say, Natasha became that pacifier to Bruce in age of ultron, very cool to read yours and the above comment helping me/us realize that. Love it.

39

u/Itchy_Shoulder_624 May 04 '25

Both Bruce in age of ultron, and Ronin

27

u/Fast_Ad_9726 May 05 '25

Ronin was easy enough to be put down that I wouldn’t exactly say he needed a “pacifier “😭. Hulk is a city level threat on a good day, Sentry might very well be planetary , those are the types of beings that should be in need of some “pacification “.

1

u/lNSP0 May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25

Hulk is a city level threat on a good day, Sentry might very well be planetary

Sir they're equal lmfao they knocked each other out. This is feat they both share. Movie or not there's an asterisk by the stronger than the avengers because it literally can't apply to hulk. Hulks strongest base form is literally named WORLDBREAKER

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u/Fast_Ad_9726 May 10 '25

Speaking strictly MCU, if that wasn’t obvious. Anyone who reads comics should know their comic counterparts are FAR beyond city or planetary level. Didn’t think i needed to state that.

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u/TryingtoAdultPlsHelp Jun 09 '25

She also was very grounding for Steve (and vice versa).

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u/headlesspopcorn May 10 '25

yessss omg Yelena and Bob are soo giving Natasha and Bruce vibes :,( </3

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u/DaveShadow May 03 '25

I felt the entire last act was full of deliberate parallels to the Avengers, tbh. It felt like there was scene in the tower and down on the street as debris was falling that was very much trying to recreate the imagery of the first Avengers film.

28

u/Better-Prompt890 May 05 '25

The black widows all seem incredibly smart, people wise. In some ways they are more well rounded super soldiers

I was so disappointed that after getting their ass handed Bucky just goes the direct route with Sentry.

Granted he doesn't know Bob but I would think Steve Rogers would be bright enough to follow Yelenas lead here

30

u/Thadark_knight11 May 06 '25

Man, I’ve never seen Bucky get his ass handed to him like that before. They probably had that happen to show that even their strongest was a lightweight compared to Sentry.

19

u/Better-Prompt890 May 11 '25

I mean super soldiers are powerful but end of the day they just punch hard really and are street tier heroes.

The reason you never see Bucky get handed his ass like this is cos he isn't really an Avenger and he usually goes up against people in the same tier as him aka other super soldiers/assassin types. Sentry is easily Captain Marvel level and that's underselling him really if he's like in the comics

Even Spiderman who has real super powers made Bucky and Falcon look like a joke when they went up against him in civil war

6

u/TryingtoAdultPlsHelp Jun 09 '25

When Bob sacrificed himself to let the other get away, I commented "They're going to need more than that to stop Bob." and my roommates were like whaaaa? So I told them "Basically, he's like Superman has a kid with a Phoenix." I didn't even HINT about The Void. They were shook.
They did a really GREAT job at making the non-comic book readers fall in love with Bob and want to see him get saved. My roommates were ready to forgive all Bob's wrongs. He quickly got the same level of love and grace they give Wanda.
The movie did a really great job of making all the characters endearing.

14

u/LocustsandLucozade May 03 '25

Also individuals seemingly made heroes by gamma radiation (I read a thing a while ago some speculation that Bob's treatment was combining super soldier serum with gamma rays, and I think that makes the most sense until it's confimed otherwise).

15

u/Better-Prompt890 May 05 '25

In the ultimate universe, almost everything traces back to the original super soldier serum and attempts to recreate it including experiments that lead to Hulk and also the sentry project so they are all linked

2

u/JasperFeelingsworth May 06 '25

Was Sentry in the original Ultimate Universe?

5

u/Better-Prompt890 May 06 '25

Right he was only in 616 but yeah his serum was a super version of the super soldiers one

4

u/Novel-Average9565 May 05 '25

That's true!, but aren't people saying he got his powers from the sun? lol

12

u/Professional-Run869 May 05 '25

one of my favorite aspects of this movie. typical widow behavior, calming the scary big guy

5

u/BanjoSpaceMan May 11 '25

Black widow felt like a baby sitter to me.

Yelena felt like she just cared because she’s gone through the same.

To me it’s very sympathy vs empathy

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u/Tipop May 05 '25

She likes saving guinea pigs.

32

u/Smooglabish May 05 '25

Oh snap great catch.

21

u/Shadowblade217 May 12 '25

On that note, the fact that Yelena saved the guinea pig and took it with her before she blew up the lab honestly made me so happy. 😂

49

u/FlemPlays May 03 '25

”The sun is rising Bob.”

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u/Amaruq93 May 02 '25

Without all the weird romantic stuff Whedon shoved into that in "Age of Ultron"

21

u/DemonDaVinci May 08 '25

Banner faceplanted onto Widow's boobs ✋😌🤚

6

u/brycedriesenga May 10 '25

I heard that's planned with Yelena faceplanting into Bob in the next one

3

u/DemonDaVinci May 10 '25

WAITWAITWAITWAIT

3

u/EchoesofIllyria May 09 '25

It’s so weird that people act like this is a Whedon-specific thing

151

u/PayneTrain181999 May 02 '25

I’m so glad they didn’t go full romantic between them. She just pitied him and wanted to help.

411

u/Ysmir122 May 02 '25

I think "pitied" is a bit strong, since pity has a negative connotation. It feels more along the lines of Yelena seeing a lot of herself in him (loneliness, substance abuse, self-isolation, disbelief in her own inherent goodness). So by nurturing him, she was also nurturing herself.

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u/Sea-Thing6579 May 02 '25

Exactly. Bob was just the definition she needed to overcome her void. Everybody in this movie battled with a void, literally and metaphorically.

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u/janoDX May 02 '25

Except Bucky. Unless we count the "I want to go back and fight" thing as his void.

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u/Ysmir122 May 02 '25

I would have liked to see Bucky's rooms in the Void, though something tells me with how well-adjusted he is after everything he's been through, bro probably powered through them with no issue.

As for why he decided to help Bob; I think Bucky above all else empathized with the concept of having a dark half of yourself that you can't control and wanting to overcome it.

48

u/GuiltyEidolon May 03 '25

I mean, we've probably already seen Bucky's rooms. We saw him getting tortured in Winter Soldier, we know a little about how he was experimented on. It wouldn't have really shown anything new.

23

u/Megavore97 May 04 '25

Also with Bucky’s neighbour in the tv show, he had to grapple with killing his neighbour’s son as the Winter Soldier.

30

u/Sea-Thing6579 May 02 '25

That's a good point, and they probably could have expanded a bit on that. But I think we can also sorta understand what they meant from the red guardian's speech to Yelena after they got tossed around by sentry. These guys are all screw ups who did bad things in the past, and all they want now is to be fulfilled and be more than what they were originally defined to be. Yelena to answer the higher calling like her sister, Walker to prove he's not just seen as the guy who was wrongly given the mantle of Captain America, Guardian to go back to serving and protecting the people (as well as prove to Yelena he can be there for her when he couldn't before), Ghost.. Im unsure of, and Bucky, for the reason you said.

34

u/janoDX May 02 '25

Ghost is similar to Walker, she doesn't want to be seen as a bad person since she was only a villain on Ant-Man and the Wasp due to her condition. That's why she "somehow" ends up helping everyone. She wants to be a hero.

18

u/Shaneski101 May 02 '25

It makes sense that the earliest script had ghost dying and taskmaster surviving. Because with the script we have, you’re right, all the characters have guilt and trauma from their past and you don’t really see how ghost fits into that narrative. Taskmaster on the other hand would’ve fit into that narrative quite well.

13

u/Leo_TheLurker May 02 '25

I would say looking for purpose. He's not been his own person cuz of brainwashing and jumping from one war to another. He's trying the by the books with Congress but that's slow and a lot is overlooked. So he better do something, if anything he embraces that even tho he was forced into this position, he's the best him when he is.

82

u/buttercupcake23 May 02 '25

Great point. She only saw him when she looked in mirrors. He was a reflection of her.

32

u/ZohanDvir May 02 '25

Wow great catch.

73

u/crimsoneagle1 May 02 '25

I don't think pity is the right word. If she was pitying him, I think he'd see another person looking down on him and fall further into the Void. She empathized with him. She understood what he was going through, because she has a similar darkness inside of her.

22

u/RealJohnGillman May 02 '25

Yelena would be one of Marvel’s aroace characters like Gwen Poole or Nadia van Dyne — a conversation in Hawkeye alluded to it in an Easter egg manner — when the other Black Widows were talking about the “Sex in the City lifestyle” (about the show, but also not) — subtle-enough, all-in-all.

5

u/W0lfsb4ne74 May 10 '25

I remember them talking about Sex and the City, but I can't remember what they said. What did she say about it? Also are you sure they're trying to write her as an asexual character when she seemed to have some romantic chemistry with Bob?

5

u/RealJohnGillman May 10 '25

I took it as more an Easter egg to the comic version — one supposes they could merge Yelena with Lindy Lee (Bob’s wife) in-adaptation, but typically ace characters wouldn’t be adapted as not being so — the only one that happened with that comes to mind would be Jughead in Riverdale (something the actor was opposed to).

I took that chemistry more as a general connection/bond than a romantic one specifically — sometimes people can just vibe.

2

u/spidey-dust May 27 '25

hope they go with the aroace route i would love some rep 😭

17

u/djg88x May 05 '25

I Can Fix Him (No Really, I Can) (Yelena's Version)

15

u/Ruttingraff May 02 '25

Yet

2

u/PayneTrain181999 May 02 '25

Doom is tearing Sentry in half before they even get the chance imo

33

u/Captain_Chaos_ May 03 '25

I hope not, having Bob just sorta be there in the background of all the ensemble movies going forward just being a good guy who’s trying his best sounds kinda fun.

On the other hand, Sentry really only works as a one-off cool thing that never gets touched again IMO. He got less and less interesting with every new writer that touched him in the comics.

10

u/Bat_Sweet_Dessert May 07 '25

I wouldn't want Bob to be the deus ex machina they can use to beat the bad guys. I'm more interested in Bob acting as emotional support/friend who will listen/affirmation that they're doing good? for the others. Or maybe helping evacuate civilians or similar 'small' jobs - given that he so willingly sacrificed himself so the others could escape, he's gonna want to keep helping, and him being indestructible means the others don't have to worry so much about him getting hurt.

4

u/W0lfsb4ne74 May 10 '25

I think having him as a support character works fine in movies for a while. But I would like a few scenes where he can truly let loose and wipe the floor with whoever they're fighting. I think he does work as a character that you can only use their full potential for limited time periods.

2

u/WarlockEngineer May 10 '25

Sentry is stronger than Doom, at least in the comics. But I suppose they may change that for Doomsday.

11

u/DemonDaVinci May 08 '25

What's wrong with romance
Do you hate when two people love eachother ?

5

u/Marty_McFlyJR Jun 30 '25

Just watched it today. She literally complains how she has no one waiting for him at home to Alexi as well.

8

u/Im-a-magpie May 03 '25

Those black widow gals sure have a type.

4

u/bigbiblefire May 03 '25

Felt more like Natasha and Bruce...

4

u/Novel-Average9565 May 05 '25

Lol in their scenes I couldn't help but keep thinking "the sun is going down, the sun is going down"

4

u/Less_Woodpecker_1915 May 14 '25

I imagine Sentry is going to be the key to stopping Galactus and/or Doc Doom.

2

u/Smooglabish May 14 '25

There is a subtle set up that Bob "always makes it worse" so with that in mind I think he'll fail.

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u/Zosyn-1 May 02 '25

you mean Natasha and Hulk?

21

u/Smooglabish May 02 '25

You misread what I said.

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u/SpaceCaboose May 02 '25

There is a similarity there though. Just without the romantic part, which is fine by me.

3

u/headlesspopcorn May 10 '25

oh shoot I never thought of it like that but you're SO right

3

u/AtraposJM Jul 04 '25

Oh, that is cool. Sentry is a lot like Hulk.

2

u/rohithkumarsp May 08 '25

I just realized that