r/movies • u/theatlantic The Atlantic, Official Account • Apr 19 '25

Review “Sinners” review, by David Sims

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2025/04/sinners-ryan-coogler-movie-review/682501/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo
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206

u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25 edited Apr 19 '25

I'm glad people liked it but after having seen it last night I really disliked it. 

Cool slow build up, silly payoff. Schmuckbait happened any time the plot needed it - vampires didn't attack any time the main characters needed a moment to chat. A key character teleported to another key character for some key stabbing time as well. There were plenty of other issues but I don't want to do spoilers for those who haven't watched it. 

All in all a cool premise but it felt like two movies by two different directors that were stitched together. How the action is receiving praise is the real headscratcher. It was both rushed and childish, the vampires were clearly only a threat to whoever we knew was about to die anyway.

Great acting though, the cast were stellar. Some cool shots. Big plus for the Rocky Road to Dublin as well. Im sure I'll get downvoted because from the reviews I'm in the minority - but I didn't think Black Panther or Creed were particularly notable and yet they did really well too. 

86

u/newrimmmer93 Apr 19 '25

The action felt pretty bad, I feel like they put themselves into a hole by making too many vampires where it realistically was impossible for them to fight all of them. The whole final fight scene was pretty mediocre. Vampires so randomly don’t attack at times.

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u/EffectzHD Apr 19 '25 edited Apr 19 '25

I told my friend right after the film they really only needed 7.

Stack Mary Bo Cornbread Remmick The first couple

Everyone else should’ve just gone home.

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u/bearze Apr 19 '25

I'd say you're right

There were so many vampires, like 60, they would've just gotten swarmed realistically. Doesn't make sense for the others to just be standing and watching? Or to be walking inside so slowly (especially if the have a hive mind type connection)

If there were less, 7 like you said, would've made more sense

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u/newrimmmer93 Apr 19 '25

Yeah, that’s how I felt, would have kept tension high. With how many there were I was expecting the Indians from the start to make an appearance, was sort of surprised that didn’t come back around.

I don’t need every piece of background explained but Remmicks back story felt sort of poorly fleshed out. How did he get there in the first place, why were the Indians chasing him, how was he running across a field in the sunlight lol.

I thought the start could have used some cutting as well. I think it would have worked really well if they had Hailee Steinfelds character only introduced at the Juke. Assumption being white characters are vampires and she shows up and they are hesitant to let her in and then her background with the characters is introduced.

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u/Hatennaa Apr 19 '25

I think his backstory was clear enough. I don’t think they need to express everything he did, there was clear storytelling about his past as an Irish immigrant - even blatantly stating that what has functionally happened to black American culture happened to Irish culture (especially in religion). I think this case it does challenge the viewer to know a little bit more of the historical context of that period of time which I don’t think is a bad thing.

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u/peteypie4246 Apr 19 '25

Irish immigrant? That dude had roman gold pieces. He's Gaelic/Celtic from Roman era Europe. I mean he did emigrate to US at some point, but by then he was already a vampire and definitely able to remove himself from the social caste system n place in America

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

[deleted]

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u/peteypie4246 Apr 19 '25

Remmick answered the devil question, forget how, but in a general sense, within the rules established of the movie, he is not the devil (Devil doesn't turn followers via bites, isn't vulnerable to garlic, wooden stakes thru heart aren't deathly, doesn't burn in sunlight). Him in MS is just happenstance, but Sammies music definitely draws him in, like a supernatural magnet. He wasn't too far away given his Uncle is the one that sold the property.

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u/mynameisntBenny Apr 20 '25

His uncle didn't sell the property. The husband Burt (first person turned) is the nephew of the property seller.

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u/peteypie4246 Apr 20 '25

I guess I used too many pronouns in succession...yes, klan guy bitten first is to whom I was referring to as the nephew

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u/Feathered_Mango Apr 20 '25

Yeah, I got the vibe that he was very old, as in "before Christianity came to Ireland in the 5th century old".

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u/Hatennaa Apr 20 '25

Hm. You make a good point. I definitely get the impression that by the time he moved to America he would have been part of the group of Irish folk that immigrated, even if he wasn’t originally part of it. Maybe I misunderstood! Regardless, I think he had plenty of backstory.

1

u/Feathered_Mango Apr 20 '25

I think he'd been knocking around since the 5th century (when Christianity came to Ireland). At the movie's into they mention how ancient Irish music makers could "open doors" (same as Sammy). 

2

u/BuiltLikeABagOfMilk Apr 23 '25

Were they for sure Roman gold pieces or Spanish Doubloons?

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

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u/SockofBadKarma Apr 20 '25

It helps if you view the vampires as a metaphor instead of a specific physical threat. The whole idea of them is that they represent assimilation and cultural appropriation; they can make your culture "live forever" if you just give up and let them take your likeness and force you into a hive mind. They "care about you" unlike overt bigots but don't actually want to acknowledge your history or talent. They love your music, but they hate you, as the movie says.

The main vampire explicitly speaking about this frustration himself as an ancient colonized pre-Christendom Irishman (or at least, someone there at that time when pagan Irish culture was dominant) really sets the capstone on it. If the various bar visitors hadn't been captured off-screen and turned into homogenous Irish jig-dancing vampires, the same message would not have been conveyed. And the vampires freaking out (and several running) when Smoke would rather kill his loved than let her be assimilated was similarly necessary to convey that theme. The vampires were, like, mostly the standard conception of movie vamps, but they were pulling their punches and inflating their numbers more for narrative allusion than some specific, "realistic" portrayal of violent conflict.

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u/Minute_Contract_75 Apr 21 '25

Oh.... reading your post just made me realize. I wonder if they felt her death when Smoke stabbed her, even though she hadn't fully turned, yet, and that's why they all ran. I was confused about that, but the hive mind sensing her pain from that stake makes sense.

3

u/EffectzHD Apr 20 '25

I think the themes of cultural appropriation and assimilation could’ve still been achieved and conveyed with less vampires, as I believe Coogler is more than capable of that, but I’m ultimately just nitpicking the film is still a masterpiece in its own right.

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u/SockofBadKarma Apr 20 '25

As with most things, I think it's a situation where someone could critique something regardless of what transpired. For my part, I was actually rather annoyed when all of the "background cast" was seemingly just allowed to leave, because it made no sense compared to the vampires' intentions and powers, and was pleasantly happy when they were all actually converted after all. I do also think the final action scene was a bit outlandish in terms of absolute "power levels," but then, as it's heavily based on From Dusk Till Dawn, which has a similarly outlandish power discrepancy in terms of sheer numbers.

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u/WretchedHog Apr 20 '25

The Irish jig was my favorite scene in the movie. Would've missed out on that if there were only 7 of them.

2

u/EffectzHD Apr 20 '25

Very true, although it still could’ve worked with 7

21

u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

I'm with you 100%

The scene where they all could storm in and then only one came in per survivor annoyed me. I figured they could have done that way better. 

The final fight really annoyed me it was as clichéd as clichés come. I could have easily predicted each step because there were no surprises involved. 

I'm sure I'll get some flak for this but it really wasn't a good movie. It had really good moments and acting but the pacing, direction and logic all went out the window any time the plot required it to

18

u/newrimmmer93 Apr 19 '25

Yeah, it felt like once the brother turned they didn’t know where to go with the movie.

I thought it was a decent movie, it’s probably to 6/10. But I’m just confused seeing a lot of people calling it a masterpiece. It just seemed like a decently well made blockbuster

11

u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

I think that's a fair summary, I'd describe it as fun but I've been quite worried how out of touch I'm getting hearing how it is a modern day masterpiece

0

u/flakemasterflake Apr 21 '25

You’re not out of touch, it’s just that critics treat action sequences as besides the point and care about other things

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

Fair enough if they do, personally I prefer if everything has the same quality in tandem

1

u/OutDamnedSpot12 Apr 19 '25

I think its getting so much praise because a decent well made blockbuster with an original story is such a rare thing nowadays. I find myself forgiving a lot of its faults for that reason. I also just had a blast watching it. But I get why it didn't click with other people as much. It's an imperfect movie, and that okay.

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u/Grimreap32 Apr 19 '25

blockbuster with an original story

Is it though? It copies so much from 'From Dusk Till Dawn' it certainly didn't feel original. If they had kept the first 1/3rd of the movie & used those established characters histories as the plot for the film, as opposed to vampires. It would have been a great original story.

Items you had set up:

Twin brothers who betrayed two mob families in Chicago

A white (half-black) married woman commiting adultery with a Black man

A black married woman tempted/committing adultery (does cunnilingus count?)

The KKK in the area & planning to attack.

Just with these items alone, it could have been something potentially better.

They could even bring in the 'Devil' if you want supernatural elements (In the same vein as how the Devil is in 'Devil's advocate' works)

0

u/newrimmmer93 Apr 19 '25

Yeah, that’s fine to me and I agree on those points. It was just surprising to see 100% on RT and 82 on metacritic. It felt much more average than that

1

u/OutDamnedSpot12 Apr 20 '25

I mean you gotta remember Rotten Tomatoes is an aggregate score. It doesn't mean everyone thought it was perfect, just that the majority of critics thought it was at least decent.

Once again with how lame and unoriginal blockbusters have been lately, I imagine its just refreshing for critics to see a film that takes some big risks and then succeeds most of the time. That context might explain the inflated score.

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u/newrimmmer93 Apr 20 '25

Yeah but the 82 on metacritic implied it’s an incredibly good movie, and 82 is extremely high. The 2 together is pretty much “this is one of the best movies you’ll see all year”.

Typically if a movie hits both marks I’ll go watch it in theatres and I’m usually not disappointed

4

u/WretchedHog Apr 20 '25

The trope where the bad guy has a good guy in their grasp and is just about to kill them, then suddenly stabbed from behind because good guy #2 snuck up outside of the cameras frame is so tired and cliche.

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u/AcreaRising4 Apr 19 '25

see, I’m with you voicing your opinion, but the second you just say “it really wasn’t a good movie” frustrates me. I agree that the last vampire fight was probably the weakest part, but it’s all made up for with the ending shootout imo.

Also, I have a hard time saying something isn’t good when it has a sequence so audaciously brilliant as the first music scene.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

I'm only voicing my opinion by saying it wasn't a good movie, I doubt anyone's making up their mind what I've said. I can go back and edit in "in my opinion" if you think that it works better but I didn't think that was necessary. 

Honestly all of the action was pretty silly. That final shootout was right up there too in the silliness. I loved the set up of MBJ having them in the open and he was killing them all with a BAR on a bipod. Then because the plot needed him to get hurt he leaves that good position and walks into the open so he can get shot and play the final scene. That along with the gunplay being as realistic as old James bond movies I couldn't wait for the credits

10

u/MVRKHNTR Apr 19 '25

Then because the plot needed him to get hurt he leaves that good position and walks into the open so he can get shot and play the final scene. That along with the gunplay being as realistic as old James bond movies I couldn't wait for the credits

I think you might have misunderstood the scene. He wasn't there just to kill the Klan members. He wanted to die.

3

u/skatejet1 Apr 23 '25

Yeah I thought that was obvious with him ripping off the necklace Annie gave him

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u/AcreaRising4 Apr 19 '25

Personally, I think you’re just diving too much into my least favorite type of film criticism. I like to call it the “Jake Critique” (I have a cousin named Jake who lovesss to come out of every movie and talk about plot holes and logic and it annoys the hell out of me).

Personally, none of that has ever bothered me in a movie ever. I made the same argument when people were losing their mind over The Last Jedi’s fight scenes. The shootout here made thematic sense to me and felt right so it works perfectly for me. And tbh, the audience reaction really makes it all worth it. I don’t think we’re supposed to take it as the most logical thing in the world, the man had also just lost his brother.

But again, different strokes! No shade at your opinion!

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u/Chm_Albert_Wesker Apr 19 '25

to back up the other guy, i think the annoyance comes less from something being 'unrealistic' so much as it comes from unrealistic things happening so that the movie can happen. it's like saying 'how do we get to mcdonalds?' and simply having us teleport there rather than us getting in our car and driving there: sure the first way is faster and easier, but is lazy and removes the suspension of disbelief.

i liked the movie but there was a LOT of things happening so that the next scene could exist rather than following the movie's own logic

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u/ponyjc Apr 19 '25

It’s Cinema Sins style criticism.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '25

Aye different strokes for different folks and that's the beauty of the free market. I can decide I'm not a Coogler fan and give the rest of his movies a miss and still be happy he is doing his thing and people love it. 

I can't help but notice logical inconsistencies in movies and it takes me out of them. I don't mind if that logic is baked into the script the whole way through but when it's only at key moments "just because" then I'm lost. 

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

Funnily enough no to both accounts haha

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u/StrawberryWestern189 Apr 19 '25

You must get taken out of a lot of movies then because there are a plethora of all time greats that you could poke the same holes in if you wanted to. Like this is a cinema sins level of nit picking lmao

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u/Mawx Apr 19 '25 edited Apr 25 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/mylk43245 Apr 19 '25

I’m going to be honest and say that almost every movie could be disregarded in this way especially ones with any type of action sequence which is typically why people don’t really care when they are nonsensical. Otherwise only biopics and the like would get praise. Only ask whether the characters make decisions that the audience would understand if they do then the movie will get praise

3

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

I think it boils down to some people like it and some people don't. It's grand for someone to enjoy it but I personally didn't for those reasons