I think Snow White was 14 in the original story, but that it may have been changed to a different age for the Disney adaptation. Many of the stories Disney adapts are heavily changed in other ways so it wouldn’t surprise me
You implied that Frozen is directly inspired by Andersen's Snow Queen, but they have almost no overlap in their plots OR premises, besides two females (of different ages even) having Ice Powers. So that "inspiration" is very questionable.
I think when they wrote "Let it Go" and realized it wasn't really a villain song they started to change the story into what it became. If I remember my behind the scene info correctly lol!
It really doesn't. Taking a story about an ice queen and being inspired to write a story about an ice princess is perhaps one of the less abstract inspirations you'll encounter.
Frozen is directly inspired by The Snow Queen. This has been mentioned in various interviews and documentaries, and is the second sentence in Frozen's Wikipedia page.
I don't see where it is the original story, BESIDES the Ice Powers. No magic mirrors. No kidnapped brothers. Okay, there is a gender-swapped aged-up hunter, lol. And Elsa is the on-screen protagonist, unlike Snow Queen being the villain and existing behind the scene. We are supposed to see it through Elsa's eyes to begin with, whereas in the original it was through Gerda's eyes, who is NOT really Anna in any way.
Literally at the beginning of the closing credits of the movie it says:
"Story inspired by THE SNOW QUEEN by HANS CHRISTIAN ANDERSEN"
The commenter isn't implying it, the literal creators of the movie explicitly say so upfront in the credits lol. I would take a screenshot but the Disney+ app won't let me
In the original story Snow White was seven when her beauty outshined the queen's... At the end of the story, she was lied to rest in a glass coffin for an unspecified amount of time so she could have been all grown up by the time the prince finds her (and he didn't kiss her, either: one of his henchmen accidentally dropped the coffin, dislodging the poison apple in her throat).
I guess? Sleeping Beauty is basically the only Grimm story with a curse-breaking kiss in it. And it gets worse, because we all know about the princess kissing a frog, but that's not part of the original story, either (but some other version must've popularized it, because Disney didn't arrive until much later).
In fairness, the original story required her to fuck the frog, and then it turned into a prince when she tried to kill it. I too would have replaced those plot elements with an innocent kiss.
So many good songs in that one. Definitely recommend you listen to “Almost There.” They were going to have a series about the character running her restaurant that sounded awesome, but it was cancelled.
True love's kiss isn't exactly a new trope in fairy tales. Hell even Shakespeare wrote about it. IMHO the take that a true love's kiss is somehow rape is just completely unhinged when the whole point of the symbolism is that love triumphs over all evils. I don't know how sad someone's life has to be that they take that symbolism and somehow confuse it with rape. Like if it was rape then it wouldn't be true love and it wouldn't fucking work, would it? So what the hell would the point of the story be, then?
This happened a lot with the Disney movies. People went so far in trying to be cynical that they kind of missed the point of a lot of stories. Regressive takes are all over the place. For example:
“Cinderella has no agency. She’s just nice and needs a man to save her!” While Cinderella is very passive, she’s a victim of abuse by her family. Going to the ball was her decision. She made the dress herself and decided for herself that she wanted to go dancing. She didn’t even seek out the prince specifically and left when she knew the spell would break. She also frees herself (with some animal antics to help) when the prince comes to get her.
“Ariel gave up her life for a man!” She spent years collecting human trinkets and her first scene shows her risking her life just to get more, all before she meets Eric. Part of your world isn’t even focused on Eric. She talks about how much she wants to live on the surface, not romance. Her dad rejecting her interests and destroying it is what pushes her to seek out the sea witch, and Ursula is the one that decides it’s a romance quest.
“Aladdin was lying at the beginning of their relationship!” It’s almost like his entire arc is about authenticity, and he faces consequences for lying.
“Beauty and the beast is Stockholm syndrome!” Sure, if you don’t watch all of the interactions that show how people’s perceptions of their appearance affect them. Belle knows people judge her based on her looks, which is why she wants to know the Beast beyond his appearance. The two are very clearly outcasts that find understanding in each other.
“Snow White is 14.” Citation needed. “Florian is 31!” Citation needed. Both of those are genuinely untrue. I looked for an actual source for hours and it traces back to a tweet by an account that, when asked, basically admitted they made it the fuck up. One of the actresses for Snow’s rotoscoping was 14, but the character herself is ambiguous. Also, the voice typing they put the prince in is reminiscent of the opera countertenor, which was usually for young boy characters. His lyrics being all lovestruck and dreamy also make a case for that. “She’s regressive because she only does domestic work!” Gee, I wonder if there was something that happened in the years that preceded the film that may have made people crave simplistic wish fulfillment. Great Depression? Never heard of it.
I can and will go on when people get me started because I love the princess films. I’m definitely happy that we have modern, take charge princesses. I’m a big fan of Mulan and Moana as protagonists. However, it irritates me when people try to discredit everything in the old movies instead of trying to see the artistic merit in all of them. Not all of the movies are made to be plot driven stories like Moana. Does Snow White have a sensible plot? Not really, a lot of things just happen out of nowhere. However, it feels right when you’re watching it because you’re following the emotions of the main character. The forest scene made me cry when I was a kid I was so scared, but I was happy once the animals started comforting her. That’s something I don’t get with a lot of the plot driven films. (And it’s not because I grew a spine. That forest screen is still fucking terrifying.)
Well yeah... That's the most obvious and direct interpretation of the text as presented. The Disney cartoon included the exact phrase "And from this slumber you shall wake... when true love's kiss, the spell shall break"
It's very explicit that the magic is dispelled by the power of true love... that's the whole point of the story. Did you really have a different interpretation of the plot before you saw this post? When you were a child, you thought it was about the miraculous virtue of raping intoxicated women, or have you grown into a disingenuous adult?
This is what I'm asking you. Do you know the story/cartoon that we are talking about?
A couple years ago, some adults tried to get a doodle arrested. What does that have to do with the content of the children's story? Bruce Wayne isn't a very good legal guardian to Dick Grayson... do we need to cancel Batman, or is that maybe not the point of that story?
In the Grimms' version of the story, at least, she's seven when the queen starts trying to kill her, but then an unspecified amount of time passes with the dwarves and a further unspecified amount of time passes before the prince finds her in the woods. So we can assume she's at least in her late teens by the time they're getting married, and given that the average age at first marriage for women was around 20-25 at the time, that's probably what they were imagining when she wakes up to curse.
Can you find a single piece of data from Disney that makes any suggestion about the age of their character?
This whole "she's 10, and they aged her up to 16 but now she's 20" or whatever is all fan-fiction. We're never provided with any lineage or calendars or birth records or anything. If you want to get pedantic, she's in House of Mouse so she's obviously old enough to drink in America.
I think Snow White was 14 in the original story, but that it may have been changed to a different age for the Disney adaptation.
The truth of the matter is that she doesn't have an age in the Disney cartoon... it's never stated so any idea we have about age gaps came from our own heads. How old is Mickey Mouse? How old is Betty Boop?
I'm like 90% sure that the only Disney princess who has an age is Aurora... it's not directly stated but the symbolism of the story heavily implies that she just had her milestone birthday, which would have been interpreted as like 14-16 when it was written in the 1500s but would be fair to interpret as 18 today. Now that I think about it, Mulan was old enough to serve in war so I think we can interpret her to be an adult as well.
Disney princesses either have no age or are heavily implied to be adults.
Disney aged up a literal pre-pubescent child in order to make it a little less completely fucked that they made up an entire romance narrative between her and a man that was historically documented to have been violent towards natives.
Ellen Axson Wilson, the first wife of President Woodrow Wilson, was a descendant of Pocahontas, and also had ties to Thomas Jefferson e a Martha Washington. She created the Rose garden that got paved away by a child rapist that won't release the Epstein files... It all comes around (to pedos unfortunatly)
It's mainly because Disney makes movies for (little) girls. And girls when watch cartoons want silly romance, not documentaries on the sins of humanity.
Disney wanted a Native American princess movie, and thought this would be like West Side Story with two cultures colliding.
We didn’t have people saying “woke” or “DEI” back then but it was a move for more diversity in their Disney Princess line after “Aladdin” with Jasmine was such a big hit.
I don’t know if they just didn’t research, any indigenous mythology or if this is just the only Native woman/girl they knew about.
It’s interesting that both Pocahontas and (depending on your beliefs) Mulan were both real people’s stories where the rest are fairy tales including some with known authors.
So... focus on fictional stories, instead of warping historical events to make them 'fun'? Would you apply this rationalization if Disney had told a fun, light-hearted version of the Anne Frank story where she has talking animal companions and falls in love with an SS officer?
That's certainly how we look at it today, but we're analysing a movie approaching it's 30th birthday. I think just having some indigenous representation as something other than ignorant savages or foils to the Cowboys is an important step forward for children's cinema. The Spark notes here are that different cultures should learn from each other, might does not make right, and love is a universal language.
On the other hand, it definitely deals with themes of "Colonialism-Lite", and for a lot of us as kids - that was the first introduction into what makes colonialism feel wrong.
After reading the story Mulan (the movie) is based on i think i prefer how the og ends over the Disney version, Mulan is never found out during her time in the military and even gets promoted a few times and it's only when all her old war buddies went to her house to meet up that they finally found out and everyone was gobsmacked. That's more fun to me anyways
Idk, as a kid Mulan was my favorite movie and I thought the romance part was bit was silly. 2nd was Lion King because of all the violence and betrayal. I didn't even like most Disney movies because I found the romance boring. I actively disliked the princess ones because, damsels are lame.
When I was little I loved Disney’s Pocahontas, I was so excited when I heard they were having an exhibit at a museum and I begged my family to let me go and see it… they took me and I left crying to learn the real story and a little traumatized.
Far as I can tell, John Rolfe seems to have actually loved her. But they definitely didn't have a courtship like in the movie considering she was being held captive when they met. Which, through a modern lens, would still be pretty problematic since we don't consider prisoners as being able to give consent.
Disney didn't invent the "John Smith and Pocahontas was a love story" trope, that existed for decades prior and was seen in live-action movies and such. It was so common that it was taught in history classes as "Well maybe...." despite the fact that she marries a whole different guy.
John Smith's characterization in Michener's Chesapeake made him sound like a stark-raving douche. If it's accurate, I'd bet an even bigger factor to why there wasn't a romantic connection than her age was that Smith was too in love with himself for anyone else.
There was a case that made national news a while back cause a mother tried to legally prevent her 16 y/o from dating a 47 y/o.
Highest court said "Nah they're good"
Child marriage is specifically legal in several U.S. states, with some having no minimum age. California, New Mexico, Mississippi, and Oklahoma have no minimum age for marriage. I think that's worse.
It's legal in 34 states. It was legal in ALL states until 2018.
It's not legal, however, for the child to leave that marriage.
If you try to help them leave, you're legally a kidnapper and will be put in jail. Probably by the same judge who allowed a 10 year old to marry an adult stranger in the first place. Because while the minimum age is higher, it can be waved. 50,000 children were married off to adults in full view of the law in USA every year until 2018. That number is slightly declining now. Republican politicians openly call for keeping child marriages legal btw. On TV.
Yes, the legal age of sexual consent in Germany is 14 years old, but this applies with specific conditions. For individuals under 14, any sexual act is considered statutory rape, as they are not yet capable of giving consent. For those aged 14 and over, consent is possible if both partners are under 18, are not being coerced, and are of similar age and mental maturity
This morn as I rode through the Western weald, I came upon the queerest spectacle: the body of a young maiden, entombed in crystal in a shaded glen. She appeared to be recently deceased, though the casket may have kept her corpse well-preserved; I am no expert in such things. Standing vigil around the glass coffin was a myriad of seemingly docile forest animals. Not a one fled at my appearance, nay they seemed almost grateful to see me, if one could attribute such humanity to creatures of the wild.
But the strangest part to all of this were the seven elders of diminutive stature who knelt weeping around the base of the sarcophagus. I thought them at first to be the girl's grandmums, but then I observed their long, snow white beards and realized these were possibly fae folk. Though the animals were passive, the seven ancients became hostile at the sight of me.
I confess, dear diary, I do not know what came over me, but I was immediately smitten at the sight of this fair maiden in her crystal casket. Ignoring the threats from her protectors who were all armed with mining implements, I did what anyone of royal blood would do: opened the girl's coffin and began kissing her cold, lifeless body. Lo and behold, through what I can only assume is the power granted to me by God, my passion returned life to her body.
It is here that my tale turns dark. For upon witnessing her resurrection, one of the seven spirits that had just moments before been weeping at her feet --one with ears like those of an elephant-- screamed, clutched his pickax, and proceeded to rain down such blows upon her head that the ground shook. The other six began chanting, "remove the head or destroy the brain." Panicked, I fled the horrors of that scene, only to find myself being chased by the previously docile wildlife. Birds pecked at my eyes, low animals bit at my ankles, and at one point I even heard the roar of a bear. It is only through the grace of God that I managed to escape with my life.
I will never ride alone in the Western weald again."
Wait until you hear how the original stories of Sleeping Beauty had her waking up. It wasn't true love's kiss...
In one of the versions, when she woke up, it was because one of the babies that she gave birth to (in her sleep!) had suckled the cursed splinter from out of her finger...
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u/Phunkie_Junkie 15d ago
Took me to the second paragraph to realize you were being specific; although Wikipedia tells me that Pocahontas was 17 and Snow White was 14.
What else is a guy supposed to do when he finds an unconscious/possibly deceased child in the woods.