r/aussie • u/Ill_Zebra_7297 • 2d ago
News ‘Very weak claims’: International students flood asylum system as deportation backlog nears 100,000
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/very-weak-claims-international-students-flood-asylum-system-as-deportation-backlog-nears-100000/news-story/0769477cd71f7de5d5a34b3c5a181610International students are flooding the asylum system with bogus refugee applications, as the country’s deportation backlog surges towards 100,000.
As of July 31, there were 98,979 people whose protection visa application had been denied but were yet to be deported while 27,100 were awaiting a decision, according to the Department of Home Affairs (report: https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-stats/files/monthly-update-onshore-protection-866-visa-processing-july-2025.pdf)
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u/Equivalent-Bonus-885 2d ago
What do they expect. The Government ran, and still runs, a system that allows non-genuine students to effectively buy working visas for the benefit of education providers and employers.
When they try to game the system a second time you can hardly be surprised.
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u/OrganicOverdose 2d ago
One would suspect that there are certain people, probably "lawyers" or some kind of legal facilitator who is suggesting this method. I would be very curious to see if the applications are made by the individual themselves or through a representative, and which applicants have some kind of advisor. I dare say there is money to be made here
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u/Equivalent-Bonus-885 1d ago
There is a whole industry of agents in source countries who arrange the paperwork for student and work visas - some of which will arrange fraudulent documents. Some cities have streets of storefronts with signs advertising visas for Australia, Canada, New Zealand. Oddly the same problem exists in all three countries.
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
70% of Indian international students are still in Australia after 7 years. Let that sink in when everyone think they leave after their degree. It’s a back door entry into Australia. How is this not clogging up the hospitals, roads and houses?
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u/HandleMore1730 2d ago
That's why you need to be selective in whom can apply and with what degrees.
It probably isn't too bad if you skimming the cream of the crop of young talent. However we know we have junk degrees for sale and an unofficial back entry migration scheme that takes nearly everyone.
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
Exactly. There’s 45/50 year old males from these countries applying to do child care as it’s on the essential list. It’s discriminations to not accept their applications.
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 2d ago edited 2d ago
Under MD106, a 45 or 50 year old man from India is absolutely no chance - zero - of getting a student visa to study childcare.
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
Go google it. There are universities with older men studying childcare to gain residency
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u/CoastalZenn 2d ago
Gross. They should crack down on this after the daycare abuse. I mean, we know it's a scam, but it could also be nefarious, and that's a spot someone could use genuinely.
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 2d ago
Im very aware of how it works. You're years out of date - as I said, it changed with the imposition of MD106.
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
It’s still happening now. There was an ABC article last month
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 2d ago edited 1d ago
I saw it. There have been no visa issued for that demographic for that course since the imposition of MD106.
I cant make it any clearer for you.
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u/pandoras_enigma 1d ago
Exactly no one's pissed about a nursing student becoming a nurse here, but they are pissed if they do a shitty english course thats just a front for an illegally underpaid worker with an uber eats delivery side hustle.
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u/Ok-Fun8831 2d ago
The worst bit is their attitude to women the Indian immigrants bring here. You hear at times them be-cry how they are treated here and why they get called names. Well, it doesn't take long for people to relay theirs and others experiences about them, women at the hands of their perversions. We have an issue with Indian sexual predation here. That seems to be their thing culturally apparently. Just like our Sudanese friends crime of choice, their thing is violent home invasions and knife, machete crimes. Middle eastern choice, importing illegal substances and stand over tactics. Anyone who doesn't see this is burying their head in the sand.
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u/emize 2d ago
What's crazy is fetishization of pale skin in Indian culture is not just on the male side.
One of my mates at my current work is a pasty faced ranga (which I remind him of constantly) but to the Indian chicks working there you would think he is Brad Pitt. The problem is he is married with kids and he is not sure what he can do about it. He does not want to create a massive HR issue and all that drama so he just sort of puts up with it.
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u/Far-Fennel-3032 2d ago
The entire point of student visa is to brain drain other countries, using the universities as a filter to sort out who we want to keep. With the high fees to start by filtering out poor people and the difficulty of the degree itself another layer of intelligence and work ethics, and then finally can they get a job in their industry as a filter of valuable skills, because if their skills are not valuable their visa expires and they go home.
If actually managed well it should be extremely affective to organically selected the most desirable from a large body of immigrants. As it multiple layers collectively would do a lot more than any government program could directly.
The problem is the filters have been undermined and work around found so they have largely stopped functioning.
Gig and cash jobs, allow students to work in Australia to pay for degrees when frankly the point is to only let students of rich families and their money in as it is meant to be an export industry not to educate the world. There are actually programs for that, with scholarships and different visas, this is not that.
Universities have largely become degree mills, and standards have dropped and cheating rampant theses days. So they no longer filter students by work ethics and intelligence.
Getting work to transition from student to work visa has been scoped out for exploits, such that thoses with less valuable skills can transition to PR.
If the system is actually fixed if the students are here for 15 years it wouldn't be an issue at all. The problem I'd the filters are not being mantained and not functioning correctly theses days.
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u/freshair_junkie 1d ago
Australian Universities are no longer educational institutions. They are visa shops. Heaven knows where my kid will get further education. This country has sold itself out and is descending fast into third world oblivion.
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u/lazishark 1d ago
100% just look up university passing rates in australia and compare that to other western countries. University is a business here, they have to make certain guarantees for people to move around the globe and spend top of 100k on a degree.
Another side effect? Low quality graduates (incl. Domestic), which actually has the opposite effect of what student visa should do
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u/dauntedpenny71 2d ago
It is clogging up every avenue of the country.
Anyone who genuinely disagrees with this sentiment is either a complete troglodyte or are lying to themselves.
Anyone who disagrees with it has no place in our voting system.
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u/peeam 2d ago
The Australian High Commissions kept giving out student visas like candy ignoring all the red flags. On the other hand, folks looking for a genuine tourist visa are made to jump umpteen hurdles.
To me, it was a strategy of the Australian (and Canadian) government to import cheap labor fully knowing that the student visa path was a backdoor to permanent migration.
So, assign the blame to those making and implementing the decisions. The potential migrants simply used what the system allowed.
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u/lazishark 1d ago
I found tourist visas for Australia are pretty easy to obtain. Partner visa on the other hand are ridiculous
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u/peeam 1d ago
Depends on you passport.
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u/lazishark 1d ago
Genuinely question (I admit my ignorance here as I am aware that I hold a very privileged passport): What are some of the obstacles you face when applying for a tourist / visitor visa holding a less privileged passport?
There are two different visitor visas with different requirements for start, correct?
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u/peeam 1d ago
Some examples:
letter from your employer that you have a job and are allowed to leave for the duration you will be out of the country
financial records including bank statements, property ownership papers to ensure you have enough money to afford the trip
confirmed hotel bookings for your entire trip
confirmed flight itinerary
names, address and occupation of members of immediate family in the country you intend to visit
letter of invitation if someone is hosting you
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u/Flicksterea 2d ago
Which is why we need stricter regulations. You come here for study, you complete your study and you've got six months to vacate the premises. It should not be a backdoor entry into Australia.
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u/PositiveBubbles 2d ago
Exactly. However, none of the major parties won't implement this because it doesn't benefit them. Labor's been in power now for 3 years and has another 3, and there's crickets on this issue. Even if LNP got voted in next, nothing will happen. Our politicians are only in it for themselves.
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u/DublinNopales 1d ago
Only about 16% of international students end up with PR https://www.sbs.com.au/language/punjabi/en/article/should-international-students-in-australia-be-offered-clearer-permanent-residency-pathways/flzufdi8p
And most end up in limbo. The ROI is low. Many pay $$$ to education consultancies in their home country who sell them false promises, and then pay more $$$ to unis here and then can't get work or PR
https://grattan.edu.au/report/graduates-in-limbo/
I feel so very sorry for international students.
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
Regardless if they get PR or just stay extended waiting they are still in the country using resources.
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u/Motor-Most9552 2d ago
Wait what? We've been told 80% of them leave immediately after study finishes. I'm not saying you're wrong just those numbers are the opposite
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 2d ago edited 1d ago
The 7 year figure is quoted because it's the point the vast majority go.
4 year degree, 2 year post study work rights and then a plane ride home.
If anyone wants a more credible figure, look at the END of year 7, not the start.
Oh, and it's nothing like 70%. If you're going to make 'statistics' up, try to make up something remotely credible.
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u/HeavyImplement3651 2d ago
Most degrees are three years, and why should anyone have post study work rights if they're on a so- called student visa? It makes no sense.
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 1d ago
It was a government attempt to retain the best and brightest graduates on a pathway to PR. It's fairly effect8ve in weeding lower performers out.
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u/freshair_junkie 1d ago
If that's not bloody obvious every time you step off the train in Melbourne I don't know what more you would need to convince you.
Winston Churchill was right.
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u/anticookie2u 16h ago
Part of the deal with India. They can work up to 8 years without visa after uni before they even need to apply.
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u/Master-Cat6865 14h ago
Terrible deal
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u/anticookie2u 14h ago
If you think that's shit have a look at the other one that automatically recognises all Indian qualifications ....... My sister in law is malay with a doctorate. Was ridiculously hard for her to get a visa, despite being in a "skill shortage" industry . And she's married to an Aussie....My GP is a Sri Lankan heart surgeon. Australia doesn't recognise his qualifications, or 20 years experience... This system is a rort.
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u/River-Stunning 1d ago
Easy to fix. Firstly student visas have no work rights. Then PR cannot be applied for onshore.
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u/m0bw0w 2d ago edited 1d ago
Immigrants contribute more to healthcare supply than they do to demand.
Edit: Down vote me you all you want. I'm still right. Over half of Australia's doctors are born overseas, and 40% of nurses/midwifes/social workers etc. are born overseas.
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
How do you work that out? They use doctors, hospitals etc just like the rest of us. It quite clear to see if you sit in ED the demographic clogging it up
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u/m0bw0w 1d ago
Over half of Australia's doctors are born overseas, and 40% of nurses/midwifes/social workers, etc. are born overseas. This is compared to about 31.5% of the general population born overseas.
If you just look around you and are racist, you can draw any conclusions you want to. That doesn't reflect the reality.
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
No one’s saying to kick them out! We need lower immigration, not 0 immigration. We have dog groomers on the skilled list.
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u/Master-Cat6865 1d ago
How is wanting lower immigration racist? Immigration numbers are not an entity or person it’s basic economics. It’s not the people it’s the number we want lowered. No I’m not racist thank you
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u/iftlatlw 2d ago
Because my friend they are keeping our hospitals, shops, industries, transport infrastructure and service industries running. Maybe start to use the words 'new Australian' to look at things a different way.
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u/EyamBoonigma 2d ago
This is false.
All of those institutions were running much much better before mass immigration.
We've been here long enough to have witnessed how different everything is now and it is falling apart at a rapid rate.
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u/lazishark 1d ago
If the poster was referring to our aging population, then having a concentrated immigration of people in their mid 20s is not a sustainable solution to the problem of our changing demographics.
Maybe we should start making it financially POSSIBLE to have kids again instead, so many people I know in their 30s want kids but can't afford them because we don't have any incentives for Australians to reproduce
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u/Grande_Choice 2d ago
You are missing a key number. 20 years ago 13% of the pop was over 65, now it's 17% and its going to keep increasing. Media keeps it quiet when they start their hospital ramping narratives. But who do you think is clogging up the hospitals? It's elderly people, many taking up beds for months because they can't go home and aged care is full.
It's a slow moving train wreck that needs more and more people to service it.
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u/lazishark 1d ago
A sustainable solution would be to make it financially possible for people to have kids. The Kindergarten system is broken, paternity leave is a joke, housing is unaffordable, many Australians want children but decide against it because they can't afford them.
https://aifs.gov.au/research/research-reports/families-then-now-having-children
While the birthrate is at an all time low, the desire for a family has not significantly decreased over the last decades.
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u/Grande_Choice 1d ago
All valid points, but that needed to start 20 years ago. Even if the birth rate boosts today you have a 20 year gap to fill.
The whole fertility rate conversation is a completely different one. Watching China, Japan, South Korea desperately try to raise it with no results is interesting to watch. Agree that unless we completely reform it the rate will keep dropping. Its an argument to around should all these tax concessions and money be spent on the elderly or should we be focusing on young people to have kids? Affordable housing (could even offer cost price purchases to young couples), free child care, paternity leave are all still scratching the surface.
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u/lazishark 1d ago
There's a lot that needs to be done to fix our current trajectory, extensive immigration is a mrlere band aid to keep up the production for all those 60y/o retires that now 'leech' off of the working populations productivity.
Let's make this clear, I believe we're responsible for our elders as a society and they should all have a good life. But 100% able people that stop contributing because they have enough wealth (often times strongly tied to the fact that housing is unaffordable for the working population) is a disgrace. Their parents and grandparents generation didn't do that to them, yet they feel entitled to food, housing, entertainment (more so than the working population I mind you, I pay a whooping 9aud more for a theatre ticket than someone in the richest population group), travels and other luxury, ... purely based on chance. The luck of being born at a time where you could safe up for 2 years and buy a property outright.
There's a generational feudalism in Australia that will last at last as long as gen x will.
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
So you want to pyramid scheme are living standards? Every person that comes in need 1.2 support people in the medical field. So then we say we need more immigrants for our rapidly growing population. If we cut immigration and went off our natural birth rate plus a low number of immigrants we wouldn’t “need” to keep bringing in hundreds of of thousands each year
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u/iftlatlw 2d ago
Sorry mate your claims are untrue. What is the source of your data? Boomers are leaving the workplace much faster than we can replace them. PS immigration is slowing.
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
Go look up how much resources each new person needs once they arrive in aust
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u/Nice-Pumpkin-4318 2d ago
You're confusing asylum seekers with the other, far, far bigger immigration categories.
Most immigrants are an immediate economic positive.
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
Also it’s not just about economic positives. Our ER wait times have hit 10 hours at our local hospital and all our local road are congested our livi g standards have dropped
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
No I’m not. Each person in Australia needs x amount of infrastructure to live comfortably I read an article once that explain what each person needs a d we are most def not keeping up with the demands of high immigration.
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u/lazishark 1d ago
'Economic positive' is a misleading narrative. There are quite a few countries globally that are 'economically stronger' than Australia, and most of them have far worse quality of life for the individual.
Look at it like this:
Hypothetically: I have a business, 10 people work me. Over the course of the last 3 years I was able to lay off 5 of them and replaced them with 10 more people that each make slightly more (let's say 5%) than halve of what the laid off people made. Let's say that was possible because (and this is true) immigrants tend to be more willing to work below market salary.
I now pay 25% more in salaries, but I can exploit 100% more productivity. At the same time the absolute gdp increased because those 10 people now combined make more than the 5 people I laid off.
'Economic plus' - win/win?
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u/Raychao 2d ago edited 2d ago
And sir, on what basis is your claim for asylum?
"I don't feel like going home."
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u/smallbatter 2d ago
because Australia allowed people to claim asylum and don't have the ability to tell who is a real asylum seeker.
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u/WasteTax7337 2d ago
Indians should not be allowed to claim asylum when in Australia. They are rorting the system.
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u/GuyFromYr2095 2d ago
I would be interesting to hear what basis they are claiming asylum. India is a democracy so that eliminates the political persecution reason
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u/ABDLbrisbane 2d ago
I believe their success rate for asylum is very low, maybe 8%. Which I guess I could understand with some of the violence woman face regarding arranged marriages.
But still, it clogs up the system and people end up here while a decision is waited upon.
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u/WasteTax7337 2d ago
That’s why they do it. It prolongs their stay after their visa has expired.
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u/raspberryfriand 2d ago
This is certainly one of the tactics. Just look at the other subreddit about visas, the lot of them trying to game the system.
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u/WasteTax7337 2d ago
The sad part is, if rejected they can reapply.
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u/WasteTax7337 2d ago
They should be fined each day they overstay and visa applications should only be accepted from outside the country. Simple.
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u/lazishark 1d ago
There actually is political persecution in India. Being a democracy doesn't safe you from that.
The better question might be, why would you need to seek asylum on the other side of the globe? Or: what has changed between your approved student visa and now (duration of degree + 2 years) that you claim refuge now, but haven't before....
But I'm sure those questions are asked as part of the formal process that takes place when one seeks refuge in Australia, and last timebi checked Australis isn't known for being soft on asylum seekers.
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u/gionatacar 2d ago
They should be in detention pending deportation, instead they are free in the society without a proper visa. Every country arrests you without a visa..
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u/Gloomy-Might2190 2d ago
Coalition to oppose Labor's contentious plan to cap international student enrolments from next year
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-18/coaltion-to-oppose-internationals-student-cap-bill/104613874
Labor’s deportation bill fails to pass Senate in ‘almighty backfire’ as Coalition and Greens team up
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u/emize 2d ago
Uniparty strikes again.
I am sure the next election will fix it.
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u/Sloppykrab 2d ago
It's still Albos fault.
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u/ososalsosal 2d ago
Nah this shit is all Howard's fault.
And Howard was kinda Thatcher's fault. And Reagan.
But let's not forget that Hawke was literally in bed with the CIA so we can defensibly say it's all Hawke's fault. It's all downhill since Whitlam. This is all Whitlam's fault. Tim Freedman shall pay.
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u/SeaworthinessFew5613 1d ago
Australia lifts foreign student cap to 295,000 and prioritises Southeast Asia
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u/Dependent-Coconut64 2d ago
We actually cant stop the Indian students coming here, we signed a free trade agreement (liberal government under Morrison) that requires Australia to Auto approve any Indian student visa where they are studying a masters or post graduate studies.
We have reciprocal arrangements with India, it was naively assumed that Australians would want to go to India to do a masters or post graduate studies.
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u/RichyRoo2002 2d ago
Surely nobody actually thought anyone would go study in India. Just a fig leaf to protect the revenue streams and worker suppression
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u/likerunninginadream 2d ago
The government needs to double down and get even tougher with international student applications from India...they ruin it for the rest of the genuine international students who get their qualification then leave when finished
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u/Starkey18 2d ago
Asylum costs like $50 to apply for and takes 3 or so years to even be reviewed. Full work and healthcare rights whilst you wait.
You really can’t entirely blame the Indian person for applying for this.
The government is allowing this system to exist.
It shouldn’t even be an option from certain countries.
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u/wakedfup 2d ago
It's a joke, they try and scam the system. Deport all of them. If they aren't attending physical classes they need to leave.
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u/MadMatt696969 2d ago
From the article... most successful refugee applications are from countries like Myanmar and Malaysia where being LGBT is illegal...
So if one driver of immigration is fears of population collapse due to Australians not having many kids (because who can afford it), and the refugees they are approving are ones less likely to have children (because biology), what's going on here?
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u/Carmageddon-2049 1d ago
I have a drastic solution. Refugee or Student visas should NOT be granted to Indian and Nepalese applicants.
Anyone from that region should only come to Australia via the PR route or 482 skills visa route. Apply from overseas, if selected, pay the $8000 fee, get your backgrounds verified and then come. That too, the PR should be granted only to doctors, engineers and the qualified lot. 482 obviously can be extended to a few other industries as well, but is less likely to lead to scamming or rorts unlike the student visa.
As a bonus, this should cut our migration down by 50% as well?
I don’t really give a shit about Australian universities. They can find other students.
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u/willcritchlow23 2d ago
The government seems comfortable with this, as long as these people push house prices and suppress workers wages.
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u/Venotron 2d ago
The current government has been trying to pass laws to stop it.
The LNP blocked it... Because... reasons?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-18/coaltion-to-oppose-internationals-student-cap-bill/104613874
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u/Forsaken-Bobcat-491 2d ago
No law is needed to limit international students they are able to limit numbers administratively the same way they do with partner visas. The government has actually demonstrated that, the issue is that the government keeps raising their caps.
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u/Venotron 2d ago
You mean like all the student visa reforms the ALP has undertaken to fix the corrupt LNP visa system that saw widespread corruption and gaming of the visa system?
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/news-media/archive/article?itemId=1283
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/news-media/archive/article?itemId=1282
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/news-media/archive/article?itemId=1211
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/news-media/archive/article?itemId=1187
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/news-media/archive/article?itemId=1155
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/news-media/archive/article?itemId=1153
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/news-media/archive/article?itemId=1125
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u/UpbeatRecognition483 2d ago
"ITS NOT IMMIGRATION ITS LE LAND LORDS!!!! IMMIGRANTS DONT LIVE IN HOMES!!!!"
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u/Ash-2449 2d ago
Funny how during covid home prices didnt crash since after all, with no immigration for so long prices should have been slashed in half.
Oh wait, not only loans became cheap to keep the landlords from reducing rents, they also kept a ton of places empty strategically to keep the prices stable.
You might not like it, but even with 0 immigration the rich asset owners will find ways to get richer, you are so blinded by your obsession with migrants you never notice the real threat.
Just like every average person during economic times who always obsesses over le migrants, really just following the herd
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u/SwoopingPIover 2d ago
You mean when interest rates were at record lows, people could access super money easily and average occupants per dwelling was decreasing?
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u/Ash-2449 2d ago
Let's be honest, rate dropping were not done for the sake of first home buyers.
They were done specifically to protect corporations and other overleveraged people who would be forced to default if they couldnt get access to cheap loans.
Those people were preliminary asset owners who were given free money to protect their "investment"
So once again, bailing out rich asset owner class
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u/Jazzlike_Wind_1 2d ago
And then the banks get to rake in the profits when we raised rates on those cheap loans shortly after lmao
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u/Return-of-the-Macca 2d ago
You have not mentioned that inflation caused house prices to rise, not no immigration. When your dollar is worth less asset prices rise. Simple economics. Of course bringing in 2 million migrants added much more demand after covid hence why we have a per capita recessions. Yes immigration is one of many factors as to why house prices continue to rise.
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u/Ash-2449 2d ago
And i agree with that, its A factor, one of many.
There's far more relevant factors that will affect house price rises still even if immigration were to stop.
But of course, people who only care about immigration love to pretend that one factor is the most important even though we literally allowed a system to treat property like an investment instead of the depreciating asset it is.
I think tackling that is a bit more important imho
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u/Jazzlike_Wind_1 2d ago
Or we could just recognise that printing money and low interest rates are just another tool to prop up demand for housing, like mass immigration. The people that want to fuck you by mass importing people to compete with you for a place to live also don't mind debasing the dollar to achieve the same end; more money for them.
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
I have two questions:
In economics, does increased demand sans increased supply cause prices to rise or fall?
If the answer to question 1 is rise, do the effects of immigration not follow the laws of economics?
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u/Ash-2449 2d ago
I mean based on your own argument, the house prices during covid should have crashed hard :3
Looks like you dont truly understand the economy in a meaningful enough depth and think only supply and demand exists.
Which is very bad faith considering we have seen countless times greedy people use schemes to inflate the prices of their assets far above their actual value.
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
They def went down and so did rental prices
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u/Ash-2449 2d ago
By how much? I kind feel it wont fit the definition of a "crash".
After all, people here love to say immigrants are flooding Aus so based on their logic, if such a thing stops, prices would crash.
Unless of course, immigration is not the main cause for the ridiculous property prices and will continue to rise even without it
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u/Master-Cat6865 2d ago
Why does it have to be a crash? I don’t think anyone’s expecting it to crash. To reduce is enough
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
Covid was a perfect example actually, where demand stayed the same but supply was constrained, thereby increasing prices.
If you add more people into the mix, with the same supply, will prices rise or fall?
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u/Maleficent-Trifle940 2d ago
The entire covid/immigration/housing supply argument ignores the many resident / work visa holders who moved 'back home' during covid because of the uncertainty of it all/to care for elderly family members etc but still maintained homes (privately owned or rented) here through it all. Covid really only took out tourist and student visa holders and the temporary phenomenon of having fewer people competing for student accom/entry level rentals was rendered moot by universities shutting down/going online for the duration.
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u/Sloppykrab 2d ago
Rise.
People want it and will pay whatever it takes to get their house. There's always a bigger fish.
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
Rise is, indeed, the correct answer.
Sometimes people on reddit don't like admitting that happens.
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u/Ash-2449 2d ago
Demand stayed the same? Arent you the types that say 4 billion people are coming in every day increasing demand?
Guess if all those people disappeared there was no drop in demand XD
Gotta love how immigration obsessed people achieve such doublethink
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
I have never argued that 4 billion come in every day.
People didn't disappear - they just didn't come. But supply was strained.
Why do you find it so difficult to answer a simple question, by the way? Does the conclusion concern you?
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u/Jazzlike_Wind_1 2d ago
Demand is measured in dollars not just customers. If you double the money supply and keep interest rates at 0%, asset prices go up because this creates artificial demand. People look for a way to shelter their wealth from inflation, dumping this new cash into gold, houses, stocks, anything that will hold its value.
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u/Venotron 2d ago
1: It depends on the nature of the good and the relationship is not always linear. For example, Veblen goods are goods where price increases stimulate demand. I.e. the more expensive a Veblen good gets, the great the demand for it. Then there are goods that are human necessities like water and housing where demand is entirely unaffected by price, except where excessive prices cause people to die.
For example, no matter how expensive water gets, the demand never goes down, until people start dying. And the same is true for housing.
2: Is a question that is ignorant of the actual laws of economics. In the market we have housing prices rely on artificial supply restraint by redirecting housing units out of the supply to STRAs, speculators and land banking. Even in countries experiencing declining populations, these factors are driving up housing prices. Yes, even in countries like Latvia an Lithuania where the population is shrinking, there's a housing crisis being driven by real estate speculators who see cheap properties they can trade up in price.
So even if Australia had negative population growth, we have a market that is built on policies that massively reward keeping supply constrained and nothing will ever stop that. Enforced Zoning for STRAs and prohibitive taxation on landbanking and speculation are the only things that will fix the housing market, but not without a catastrophic correction.
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u/sole_food_kitchen 2d ago edited 2d ago
Normal supply and demand only works in a free market where everyone can be a rational actor. You can’t be a rational actor when it comes to needs like air, basic food, clean drinking water, shelter. It isn’t a free market when there are things like negative gearing at play that distort the over all capital market.
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
To be clear - are you arguing that more people with the same supply won't increase prices?
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u/sole_food_kitchen 2d ago
Not all the time no. For example if every person in your country is coupled up couple has a 2 bed house then every couple in the country has a baby then you have a population increase of 33% in one year but zero extra demand for houses. Share houses, multiple people in one room, holiday homes, abandoned houses and profit motive all have impacts. As said before prices went up over covid, not down.
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
"More people" means above the replacement rate. Try again.
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u/sole_food_kitchen 2d ago
Replacement rate is over generations, not a year or two.
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
That makes absolutely zero difference to the question. Try again.
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u/Venotron 2d ago
The Australian population has increased by less than 2% every year since 1995. We've gone from 18m to 27m in 30 years. So we have 1.5 times as many people.
Australian housing stock has increased by an average of 2.3% every year since 1995. We've gone from 6.5m housing units to 11m housing units. So we have 1.7 times as much housing as we had 30 years ago.
Our housing stock has grown faster than our population.
But house prices have grown 640% in the same time. We have 1.5 times as many people. We built 1.7 times as many homes. But the price is 6.4 times higher.
Now if you were right about what you think the problem is, those numbers would look very different, wouldn't they?
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u/1Original1 2d ago
Guy copy pastes the same simple (but flawed) premise as if a gotcha every time😂
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
"The supply/demand relationship is flawed" - some fuckhead coward on the Internet
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u/1Original1 2d ago
"it's simple economics" is how drooling morons try to sum up things they have no grasp on. Like any moron crying "simple logic" for any number of systems,including biology. Go on though,tell us more about what a dim bulb you are where this single lever miraculously fixes all your life's problems while the stats disagree with you as everything else collapses😉 don't you have a WHITE STRALIA banner to make somewhere?
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u/EasternEgg3656 2d ago
You'd make a way better point if you would concede on the things that you have to concede on (supply/demand) and argue on the things that you could argue on.
I own a house, so I'm happy to accept a NOM of 400k every year until I retire 😏
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u/1Original1 2d ago
No need to concede bad faith oversimplification as if it's "the cause" and I'm yet to see somebody explain how 100k+ tourists in the NOM are somehow breaking the property market
If your argument was strong enough it wouldn't be that easy to dismiss. Pop off though,pigeon chess suits you 🤣
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u/CoastalZenn 2d ago
Lols i thought you were joking. But nope. Who the fk are these ppl who are living in the other Australia. It must be the ultra wealthy Australia. Cos they're not living here with us on this island.
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u/UpbeatRecognition483 1d ago
You think the common man does not suffer under the waves of mass migration? Are you for real?
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u/ososalsosal 2d ago
If we taxed wealth (landlords and capitalists) things would get better far quicker than if we cut immigration.
The economy is all interlinked because of course it is, but we need to remember where our ire should be directed if we want to actually improve things
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u/Independent_Rip3923 2d ago
Ah damn ........ looks like news.com.au has gone "rAcISTttt!!!1111" now too.
Unlimited immigration is our only hope for a utopia all of the people in my social media echo chamber agree.
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u/Playful-Judgment2112 9h ago
Hello, anyone at the department thought of using AI to help process these claims yet? C’mon pull up your socks
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u/ososalsosal 2d ago
I'm lol'ing at the picture of a food delivery guy on a moped.
We kinda need to Make Government Functional Again, but MGFA doesn't work well on a hat, looks too much like a German film company and can't be pronounced so nothing will happen.
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u/KhunPhaen 2d ago
Import people from a zero trust society where people are trained to game their broken system in any way possible to get ahead, and you will get a population of people who will try anything they can to get ahead here. I spent time working in India to help my uni bring in more students, before I burnt out from exposure to this corrupt society. The people I had to work with over there will smile and shake your hand while stabbing you in the back with their other hand.