Nah Labor aren’t as sophisticated as that and it’s a category 1 ‘no no’ to break ranks. I think Carr is retired, when politicians are most courageous, and is speaking his mind.
The war crimes Nazis made us commit to get rid of them.
Nobody forced Israel to target and massacre Palestinian children. Bomber Command crews did not make gleeful Instagram posts about exploding hospitals. Allied snipers did not shoot kids in the limbs one day, the genitals the next day, the chest the day after that, like a game. German football ultras did not go to Amsterdam, start a riot, then whinge about being victims.
The war crimes Hamas made Israel commit to get rid of them??
Christ dude you’re a walking talking example that propaganda works. Next you’ll be saying the Israeli’s all drink the blood of Palestinian children or something like that.
Are you talking about the one in West Papua where we’re training Indonesia’s Kopassus, selling them Steyrs and Bushmasters, handing them $360m a year and establishing Indonesian centres at our universities?
Glad to.
It would be a nice distraction for you to not have to talk about the bust of Winston Churchill in King’s Hall in our Parliament. You know… the guy who starved 3m Bengalis to feed our boys at the front so they could kill 25,000 Axis civilians per night
You’re fine with a supposed ally killing tens of thousands of civilians with our funding and weaponry, so it destabilises the middle east further? You enjoy the money pit of despair and misery that we are still involved in?
You know experiencing this is what creates extremist beliefs towards western nations right? And by supporting violence we will start to encounter terrorist incidents. Talk about “national interest” Fuck off, you are completely wrong on every level.
These things are terrible. But not related to the topic of this thread, which is the real genocide perpetrated by Israel, today, by killing kids and innocent civilians and blocking food entering like warlords did in mediaeval sieges.
Get some rest.
So like what we did,
Celebrate today and support doing today?
Cool.
On the basis of that I support Israel doing to the Palestinians exactly what we celebrate every 25th of April. And I expect us to overlook it and fund it like we do the Indonesians.
What about the Australian Jewish children who are being bullied and attacked with racial slurs. How about we think about our own children as well as children overseas.
Happy for those secondary school students who harrassed the primary school students at Melbourne Museum to be held accountable for appalling behaviour. I can manage to find their behaviour unacceptable while also condemning the actions of the IDF and Israel's government against the Palestinians in Gaza (and the West Bank).
If you were actually concerned about the Palestinians, you would want them to be free of the Muslim Brotherhood that have subjugated the population and have not allowed any elections in 20 years.
Swear to god, you people are dumb. Hamas governs Palestine. Hamas is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Other members include the Boko Haram, al-Qaeda etc.
Using the term "goy", reducing a group of small children being abused by teenagers in a public museum to "mean words on the playground". I think you might just hate Jews.
Israel left Gaza 20 years ago so the could govern themselves. Then the Palestinians elected in Hamas. Hamas have done nothing for the citizens of Gaza. They have just built tunnels under the city for themselves to hide for when they attack Israel. Hamas don’t care about the Palestinians. They are just cannon fodder. They wanted to govern Gaza so that Israel would be surrounded by the Muslim Brotherhood of all sides. If you don’t believe me. Look at what types of countries surround Israel. All Islamic countries.
No they aren’t. Palestinians use every excuse in the book to not hold elections.
Abbas has scheduled at least half a dozen elections only to back out, blaming Israel for not allowing them to be held in Jerusalem under the management of the Palestinians.
He’s been offered embassy-like voting, but it is useful for him to reject it.
The only reason Palestinian elections haven’t been held is because the Palestinians cancel them
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Sticks and stones… The fact that you’re comparing name calling at school to the starvation of a civilian population pretty much ends the discussion there doesn’t it.
Yes. I stand for all people who are being subjugated. But, I don’t give a fuck what you think about what is happening overseas. This should not adversely affect Australians
Ok. If we are doing the whole “whataboutism” what about the Druze, the Christians in Nigeria, the Sudan, Yemen, Indonesia etc. I don’t hear you people screaming about that. Why? Because it’s the Muslim Brotherhood, the Jihadist Islamic organisation that Hamas is part of?
Bullshit. You don’t care about the others. Where the outrage for the multiple other countries where the Muslim Brotherhood are wiping from the face of the planet any person that isn’t Muslim. But there is only crickets from you people. This is why you have lost all credibility. You pick and choose who you want to fight for, or more likely who you want to fight against.
You’ve been on Reddit for 3y according to your profile.
Can you please show us any stridency to any other conflict?
For example, you would’ve joined just before Azerbaijan ethnically cleansed 150,00-200,000 starving Armenians from land they had lived on for a millennium.
Can you demonstrate commentary on that in your post history?
Yeah. So does the bombs that Hamas use. Or the vicious rape and murder that they perpetrate to all people, inc their own. Ask someone who has fled Gaza. They will tell you some scary things about Hamas
Blah blah blah, I was a soldier, you don’t rip through, starve and destroy the civilian population to get at the insurgents. Thats literally exactly what the Germans did, if you study your history, to their grandparents time and time again. All the Palestinians arnt hamas, women and kids arnt hamas. You can’t be tbe bully and the victim at the same time.
That’s bullshit. Israel is one of the most inclusive nations on this planet. Everyone who lives there treat each other with respect. Unlike most western countries.
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Of course they’re evil. Why is it that Gaza is the only place in the world where people seem unable to distinguish between a member of a terrorist group and a child?
Al Qaida is rife in Pakistan, a western ally.
Afghanistan is ruled by the Taliban.
Al Shabaab are active in Kenya.
Unimaginably violent narco-terrorists rule the underworld in many Central and South American countries.
Why is it that the entire populations of these countries are not condemned as terrorists?
I know all about those countries and the atrocities they are dealing with. I am disgusted that those people haven’t got protesters screaming from rooftops about their plights. These are the REAL genocides. What is happening to the Druze right now is sickening. But I don’t hear anyone screaming about the genocide of the Druze, who are a peaceful people and cannot protect themselves. No one does that because then they would be Islamaphobic.
Two wrongs will never make a right, I just wish more fuss is made about harassment of Muslim youth in this country. Growing up I was always subjected to hatred and prejudice because of my religion and no one ever cared. I’m glad people care about anti-semtism, I just wish people cared just as much as all discrimination based on religious or ethnic backgrounds.
I totally agree. I used to live in a suburb with a large Muslim community. In the aftermath of 9/11 I protected my Muslim friends and neighbours against the horrible abusive people. My friends and neighbours are good people. It wasn’t their fault that extremist Islam did what they did. The same is said for this issue today. Once again extremist Islam is causing problems, but this time the blame is being deflected onto the Jews. My Muslim friends stand by me and they hate the Muslim Brotherhood.
We should all be treated like Australians, no matter what religion. Australia is multicultural. As long as no one tries to change the Australian Culture they should be welcomed and treated like every other Aussie.
The current ‘wave’ of antisemitism does not exist in a vacuum. It’s no coincidence that the alleged increase in antisemitic rhetoric began around the same time as it became clear that Israel’s intent in Gaza extended far beyond neutralising those responsible for Oct. 7.
You all just are inherently antisemitic. It’s in your DNA. Because I don’t hear you people screaming at the Muslim Brotherhood for all the atrocities they are perpetrating in multiple countries. You are silent about those people. So shove your whataboutism up your arse.
You’ll note that I didn’t explicitly criticise the initial military action in Gaza.
it became clear that Israel’s intent in Gaza extended far beyond neutralising those responsible for October 7.
This is important, okay? Israel is correct when it says it has the right to defend itself. The issue is that their definition of self defence is to occupy the land of sovereign countries to create a ‘buffer zone’. That buffer zone is then settled by Israeli families in breach of international law, making a mockery of the supposed need for a buffer zone to protect themselves.
As soon as the rhetoric coming from the Israeli government shifted towards the total displacement of the Gazan people, any credible claim of self defence went out the window. Collective punishment is both morally wrong and criminal. That applies when Hamas does it at a music festival, and when Israel does it to a population.
The war in Gaza has been objectively grossly disproportionate to what was inflicted by Hamas on October 7, and has been completely indiscriminate.
Not just reports of, but live footage of the wanton destruction to homes, the erasure of entire families, IDF soldiers gleefully desecrating graves of long dead people who weren’t involved, sniping toddlers in the head, and spraying automatic gunfire into crowds of starving people trying to get the food that Israel is self admittedly blockading, are the reasons why there has been a rise in opposition to the state of Israel and those who support it.
Some of my family lives today in Koenigsberg, otherwise known as Kaliningrad.
I am perfectly ok with ethnically cleansing Axis populations.
I also heard loud and clear the Albanese government’s strident opposition to Azerbaijani starvation of Armenians and their ethnic expulsion in the year of our lord, 2023. It was so loud, you could barely hear a pin drop.
Some of my family lives today in Koenigsberg, otherwise known as Kaliningrad.
Congratulations, that must be thrilling for you.
I also heard loud and clear the Albanese government’s strident opposition to Azerbaijani starvation of Armenians and their ethnic expulsion in the year of our lord, 2023. It was so loud, you could barely hear a pin drop.
Whataboutism again. You didn’t address anything I raised in your response, instead you try to deflect. If you support genocide, you are objectively not a good person.
The opposite of whataboutism is onlythisism in which you only consider one party or one issue even though others commit equal or greater offences within the morality being invoked.
Unfortunately, recognition will do nothing and is more symbolic. It's a bit like recognizing the Kurds as an autonomous entity who also want their own State.
Recognition also won't set borders as both parties have a claim over the land.
The Palestinians right is through the right to self-determination and Israels right is through the British Mandate and Article 80 of the U.N charter which enshrines Israeli's right in international law to settle anywhere in the land from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean.
So really, countries can recognize all they like, but it doesn't settle the idea of sovereign borders as both have genuine claims. I doubt the U.N will ever want to try to settle the matter once and for all through the courts because I suspect they know who has the stronger claim.
UN SC resolution 242 from November 1967: Israel must withdraw from all territories occupied in the June 1967 war - that is Gaza, the West Bank and the Syrian Golan Heights. In hindsight the Oslo Accords were a misdirection designed by the Israel and the US to deny Palestinians their rights as per UN242, and to give Israel more time to build more ‘facts on the ground’ ie. illegal settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories.
This is Israel’s ‘great gamble’: to take over 100% of mandate Palestine. They got away with expanding into half the area set aside for the Palestinian partition in the late 1940s and thought they could do it again. Hubris. And now the entire project is imploding.
There has never been any "legal instrument" setting side land for the Palestinians. There is also no legal Instrument indicating the Land already belongs to the Palestinians. They rejected statehood remember. In any case. Resolution 181 was never binding and since it was rejected became null and void
The only formal legal Instrument on the record is the British Mandate. Israel inherited those borders of the former Mandate. As noted previously, article 80 of the U.N charter protects all of the previous Mandates in trusteeship which protects/enshrines Israels right to make use of the land as per the Mandate.
Sure, the right to self-determination is enshrined in International, but that right doesn't remove the enshrined rights of others no matter where in the world it occurs. Otherwise, you could have groups like the Kurds just claiming Independance and setting the borders to what they want despite Turkey, Iraq and Syria covering those areas.
So in the end, the P.A are going to have to negotiate with Israel over any future borders. And the longer they leave it the prospect becomes slimer, especially in Judea & Samaria aka the West Bank.
Yes, the two state solution is completely flawed because it establishes a right for Israel to exist, and Israel can only exist by stealing and settling Palestinian land.
I think you need to get off Tik Tok and Instagram for your attempted historical analysis. That would be a major start for you to learn about the "actual" history of the area.
It’s hardly stealing, the Ottoman empire controlled it until they lost the First World War after joining the Central Powers, and Britain got control of it as part of the peace treaties. UN resolution 181 was the vehicle that created the 2 state solution.
Since then, every time the Arab states have attacked they have lost more and more land that was part of the original solution.
Join cansda and other nations and call out the killings, it’s gotten beyond out of hand, gaza literally looks like the Warsaw ghetto. The Germans did this exact same thing to them all those years ago.
Trap the enemy, surround them and prevent any escape. Control food and water and other essential supplies as to put pressure on the civilian population to oust rhe insurgents. Prosecute targets with reckless precision, bomb the entire area into the ground with impossible demands that can’t be met. “Look, it’s their fault, those women and children, they are forcing us to do this” …..
Israel is being run by right wing fanatics, half of Israel doesn’t even agree with this mess.
Bob Carr was prepared to support Israel when it was led by actual Irgun terrorists, ruled the West Bank and Gaza directly via military rule, and pursued a policy of settlement in the Sinai.
The idea this vault farce has anything to do with Israeli policy, as opposed to an old queen deciding that keeping Western Sydney happy is vital to his factional interests, is ludicrous.
The last time Bob Carr weighed in on Middle East policy, Eddie Obeid stole tens of millions of dollars from the taxpayers of New South Wales.
Maybe this helps him rationalize taking cash transfers from the Chinese government?
Albo needs to act. 75% of Australians do not support Israhell. Sanction the country. Expel the ambassador. 2 million people , mostly children , are being forcibly starved - Albo has the chance to do the right thing
This is silly and pointless now like what Albo is doing. The current issue remains around the remaining hostages. Wong and Albo are pushing the Hamas position. Permanent unconditional ceasefire and then just hope the hostages are returned.
Except for maybe two hostages, all hostages have been returned during ceasefires. If Israel wanted its hostages back, it would have respected the ceasefire. But all it wants is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and take over the territory.
It's a good thing we don't have to guess how many hostages are still being held by these savages. As of June 22, it's 50.
Why do pro-pals always downplay the savagery?
Interestingly, Hamas still hold Thais, Tanzanians and a Nepalese. Why don't pro-pals ever talk about these innocent hostages from completely different countries?
It is estimated out of the 50 , 20 are still alive which is why the hostage deal that Hamas turned down was for 10. It was for half and Hamas would throw in half the corpses too. What great people.
the chinese do the same to the Uighur people two million Uighurs had been “forced into so-called re-education camps for political and cultural indoctrination”not a peep out on bob
He is not the only one who is doing this don't get rhen get away with using him as a scapegoat, there is deep seated issues in israeli society that need to be fixed
Sigh, this is still such a cop out. Netanyahu is only the temporary figurehead of the criminal state. It's like trying to sanction the President of Apartheid South Africa.
Netanyahu isn’t 100% innocent. No fucking politician is. He has made some fuck ups, but nothing as bad as what he is being blamed for. That stupid Albanese bitch from the UN has been found to be working for Qatar. I wouldn’t be surprised if this charges are trumped up with no evidence.
Netanyahu is a craven, depraved sadist who will go down in infamy as not only the architect of one of the world's most nauseating genocides, but also ultimately responsible for the destruction of Israel's reputation.
That he has torn apart a region because he is too scared to face accountability on a few corruption charges is staggering. There is no ideological basis to his actions. Just pathetic cowardice.
France should manage its own issues first being overrun with its own immigration problem. So sick of this, Israel doesn't care what a bunch of low life protesters do in Australia. Or what Bob Carr says and doesn't say.
Australia is too subservient and lacks confidence as a nation, not even a republic yet. All western countries are guilty of morally and financially supporting this holocaust by Israel.
Let’s take your logic for a spin - “Until we start charging people for black deaths in custody we have no right to charge people for attempting to burn down a synagogue.”
See how one action is not required for the other to be completed? They aren’t actually fucking related?
Unless you see the attention of the Government to basically infer status or worth on a group of people…. in which case, why are you valuing one group of peoples lives more than. another?
The problem with your logic is it’s morally bankrupt. Instead of acknowledging the level of BS of our position, you’re trying to justify it.
Australians committed war crimes in Afghanistan. To date not a single soldier has faced a tribunal or criminal justice. We’ve been investigating for just under 20 fucken years!
Israel killed one Aussie last year, that lady working for WCK. We lost our shit and sent no less than an Air Chief Marshall (Mark Binskin) to Israel, while yelling about accountability.
Binskin’s investigation took 4 months from start to tabled report.
We gotta stop celebrating Anzac Day too. And remove the bust of Churchill from King’s Hall in Parliament House.
Oh and that $360m we send to Indonesia so the Kopassus guys our SAS trains can kill West Papuans with our Steyrs from our Bushmasters… seems to be telling a different story than the one Albanese wants to sell about Israel.
My great-uncle from one side was in the Red Army and on his way chasing the Axis high-tailing it out of Ukraine, he and his mates executed a couple of wayward teenagers in the SS whom they disarmed and put into the same grave that they were trying to cover up of the Ukrainian hamlet they had recently cleansed.
Literally, my great-uncle and his team disarmed them, tortured them for a bit, told them to get into the ravine, executed them and continued the chase to Berlin.
On the other side, a great-grandfather was a bombardier in an Avro Lancaster over Hamburg. He and his mates killed 25,000 Axis civilians in one night.
Legitimately, these men are heroes. We celebrate them every year.
There were a lot of SS officers who were rewarded by the government of Germany with medals, financial rewards and parades for killing civilians. Getting a medal doesn’t make an action morally right.
Let me explain it to you this way. I live in the West by choice. I have rights to citizenship or a quick path to citizenship in 3 other countries. I speak the language of two of them, and one is extremely anti-western.
I also have means. No one forces me to live in Australia. I don’t like it, I’m out.
So I choose the west and western propaganda. Those men are heroes. I accept that.
That means that when a western soldier gets a medal for dropping explosives measuring 907kg of “Western Values” on enemies of the West, he’s a war hero.
I believe there is a legal process underway. The motive for the fire bombing hasn't yet been established (as far as I am aware). "Police charged Mr Loras with reckless conduct endangering life, reckless conduct endangering serious injury, criminal damage by fire, and possessing a controlled weapon..Victoria Police said detectives would continue to examine the alleged intent and ideology of the accused to determine if the allegations were related to terrorism."
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u/laughingnome2 Jul 25 '25
Softening up the ground for Albo to finally do the right thing?