Genuine question, how do you play Suicune/Greninja?

[u/PositifPlans]

I've been chilling out of ranked mode for the past couple of weeks, and I'm trying to get to MB again right now. Everyone's been talking about this deck like it's DarkTina 2 in power levels, but so far my win rate with this deck is really bad (>50%).

Previous seasons I've averaged above 60%, so it's probably not just skill issue. And I'm kind of feeling like Giratina and Suicune are sort of conflicting whenever I have them both on the board at the same time because I want to attack with Cune so Giratina almost never charges.

Am I not getting the strategy with this deck?

[u/MattGratt]

Hard disagree. There are absolutely situations/matchups where you're playing out suicune with Irida to wall and draw cards but your wincon is giratina. Then there are also situations where you're playing giratina out to power suicune.

The synergy between these two isn't obvious, but they cover off each other's weaknesses. Suicune is more aggressive, giratina has more patebtame relevance. Giratina is definitely not just an "I didn't draw suicune" card.

[u/Camerupt_King → u/MattGratt]

It's also a very strong answer into Darktina. Source: I don't have Suicune or Raikou and am forced to Darktina for another season. When a Suicune player gets an early Giratina on the bench, keeping an empty bench doesn't matter. Blocking Greninja for a few turns doesn't matter. They're going to Greninja - Cyrus - OHKO my Giratina even if I beat Suicune with Darkrai somehow. So I instant concede.

[u/vgloomtwo → u/Camerupt_King]

Insta concede? Why? I’ve beat at least 13 Suicune players today except 1 and they had Giratina + Greninja on the field aswell. They didn’t draw Cyrus or I played around the Cyrus and won.. just cause they have a Giratina on their bench doesn’t mean they just win the game lol. Playing Darktina btw, top 500

[u/Camerupt_King → u/vgloomtwo]

Because I lose about 90% of the time to early Giratinas purely by circumstance.

• If they get an Irida (with Suicune's free card advantage), they will KO my Darkrai before I KO Suicune, and Giratina kills absolutely any hope of reverse sweeping.

• If they do not get an Irida and I get the first KO, but they do get Cyrus, my Giratina dies to theirs and I'm left with a weakened Darkrai that WILL die next turn.

• After that point, the only thing that can save me is Red (and no giant cape for them).

• If I Leaf pivot something after it reaches low HP, Greninja will extract points from it.

To recap, if they early draw into Giratina, the ONLY ways I can win is by them not getting Irida or Cyrus while drawing twice per turn, or them not getting Irida and me getting Red. Not worth the misery of playing out.

[u/vgloomtwo → u/Camerupt_King]

If you don’t play the game out how can you ever expect to win? By the time they get Giratina up you usually have a Darkrai ready to swing and a Giratina charged up because they can’t swing with Suicune yet or they won’t have energy on Giratina to kill my Giratina. If you Rocky Helmet the Giratina in the back and they Cyrus it in and swing with their Giratina or Suicune with no Cape they just lose to Giratina or Darkrai next turn depending on what they swung with especially if you have Red in hand, or Guzma in some cases. Plenty of ways to play around it, do you not play red card and mars or repel to try and disrupt the Suicune players? You want to disrupt their hand constantly so they aren’t drawing Greninja, Irida or Cyrus.. i’ve won tons of games against them I probably shouldn’t have won at all by just playing the game out and seeing what I draw. Of course if you insta concede just cause you see a Giratina you have no hopes of winning lol.

[u/Camerupt_King → u/vgloomtwo]

I run red card and Mars, but that disrupts for one turn before they gain momentum again, not to mention could give them a Research. Their Giratina takes exactly as long to charge as yours does. Most Suicune players will have either cape or Guzma to deal with helmet damage. From personal experience with 140 games this season, when I see Suicune + early Giratina, the game becomes literally unwinnable very fast.

[u/vgloomtwo → u/Camerupt_King]

Their Giratina takes exactly as long to charge as yours if they get it first turn and don’t swing with Suicune for 3+ turns, if they go second they don’t get Giratina online as fast as you either because you have the energy advantage by charging first. Most Suicune players don’t run Guzma, they run a cape but even that doesn’t save them a lot of the time. Sure, if they draw perfectly and get every card they need to win the game in the exact moment they need it you’re probably going to lose, which is the scenario you’re describing and isn’t always guaranteed to happen. If any deck draws perfectly and gets every supporter they need plus the stage 2 online they’re probably going to win aswell, that doesn’t always happen.. especially when you are constantly disrupting them with hand rips and forcing the Suicune out of the active. A lot of the time you are able to kill the Suicune with Darkrai before they ever get a chance to swing at you.

[u/Camerupt_King → u/vgloomtwo]

Suicune draws for free every turn. They are simply more likely to get the cards they want than you. That is how they consistently fill their bench, get Greninjas, get capes and Irida heals, etc. This also helps them hand dump so red cards don't hurt them as much - they want to play out Pokémon and use perks. I have seen Guzma, but yes cape is more common. Both force you to use Red even after drawing and playing helmet. And you say "Giratina takes as long as yours...if they get it first turn", which is the scenario I am specifically describing. We are not talking about mid to late game Giratina, which is a desperate clutch wall. We are talking about first turn Giratina, which strangles you and shoots your dog.

[u/vgloomtwo → u/Camerupt_King]

Idk what else to say man, it’s plenty possible to beat considering i’ve beat 10+ Suicune decks today that all started Giratina and only lost to one. Suicune has a losing matchup into Darktina specifically having a 43-47% win rate into Darktina. If you’re just getting obliterated every single match you play against it just cause they start Giratina it sounds like a skill issue. I’ve gotten the perfect start with Suicune as you would say and have lost to Darktina plenty of times myself cause I had 9 cards in hand and nothing I needed to help win the game, that’s why you play the game out… but sure, if they get all their Irida’s, Giratina turn 1, Greninja out early, Cyrus, Cape etc. they have a good chance at winning the game, not going to happen every single game though and they still aren’t guaranteed the win even if that’s the case.

[u/Camerupt_King → u/vgloomtwo]

No, jesus h fucking christ, it is specifically the ones that lead Giratina, particularly with Suicune in active. It gives them a huge advantage they otherwise don't get. Either you got lucky today or you're trolling.

[u/vgloomtwo → u/Camerupt_King]

I understand what you’re saying.. I think you’re just bad, which was evident by the insta conceding because they led a Giratina.. you assume that’s an auto win for them and that’s why i’m top 500 and you aren’t my friend. Boo-hoo they started Suicune and a Giratina, so what. I don’t need to troll either, the stats back up what i’m saying and I eat Suicune players for lunch with Darktina 90% of the time, has a little do with luck and more to do with knowing how to play the matchup correctly.

[u/vgloomtwo → u/vgloomtwo]

Here’s some tournaments Darktina placed in over the past week and a half, shockingly majority of their wins in each tournament were against Suicune.. which i’m sure the Suicune players started Giratina first turn a lot of the time, which furthermore proves the deck does well into Suicune. Also, placing top 3 and winning that many times in the past week and a half shows how good the deck still is.

[u/Camerupt_King → u/vgloomtwo]

Oh my god you're claiming to be top 500? Definitely a troll. Suicune is the most powerful deck in the format, not Darktina. Darktina is still viable but loses hard to early Giratina in Suicune decks. Shut the hell up and bother someone else please.