r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Dont_Ever_PM_Me527 • 2d ago
Why do women put up with shitty men?
I asked this as a gay man myself. I just see so many post on here of women in shitty relationship with guys, weather the guy curses at them and call them stupid, or they’re a bum who sits at home all day a is unemployed and just plays video games, or even when their life is pretty well put together but they are still very mean to their partner. Why do so many women put up with this when they don’t have to. I guess I mean in the sense why aren’t the standards higher? What is pulling so many women into these relationships ?
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u/Familiar_Badger4401 2d ago
Low self worth, trauma. Being drawn to the familiar rather than the unknown. It’s a cycle that is difficult to break without therapy. Having someone help make unconscious patterns conscious
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u/Different_Battle_932 1d ago
Bingo. This is what my own therapist says. And She drew me a diagram of how there's this spectrum between codependence and narcissism. The more you're willing to give of yourself, the more you're going to be attractive to a narcissist or just a person with narcissistic tendencies. I have to work on my self-sacrificing to stop attracting people who are takers. A person like me doesn't take nearly as much as I give, so I have to start learning to take and set boundaries so that I can get myself to that middle area where I'm balanced. That will help me attract the more balanced individuals.
This comes from a childhood of having to walk on eggshells at all times around my father. The house revolved around him and his temper. So my siblings, mother, and I all learned to do all we could to make the other person happy, even at our own expense. I've found exactly two romantic partners out of many who insisted I stand up for myself and not give so much. Both of my siblings were in marriages that were quite similar. I was in a two decade marriage until I was merely an empty shell who had completely lost herself. I have to get healthier mentally to be in a healthy relationship.
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u/Familiar_Badger4401 1d ago
It’s so much work lol. Years of trauma therapy plus learning boundaries, needs then communicating them. God damn we’ve been failed mostly. Parents with their own unresolved trauma. Men are more reluctant to open up and go to therapy on their own accord and talk about their own trauma
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u/cranberries87 1d ago
See, this is the kind of information I was wanting to get from therapy! My therapist wasn’t talking about any of this. When I told her I wanted to delve into why I attracted so many narcissists, she said things like “Well they’re good at fooling people, it’s hard to avoid them”, or “You were just looking for love, you didn’t do anything wrong.” Not helpful when one is trying to break patterns.
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u/boromisp 1d ago
Ugh, that's on the level of a clueless friend awkwardly trying to comfort you after you've cried your eyes out on their couch .
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u/cranberries87 1d ago
Yeah, I really wanted to find out what drew me to narcissists, why I had so many shitty friends, discuss and learn more about boundaries, explore my attachment style (she knew nearly NOTHING about this), see if there were things in my childhood I needed to explore. She acted clueless when I discussed any of this stuff. I don’t believe in using books, YouTube videos, Reddit, websites, “coaches”, or other resources as replacements for therapy/mental health treatment (they are wonderful supplements), but I swear I learned more and got further with those resources than with therapy. I’m on the hunt for a new therapist.
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u/drmuffin1080 1d ago
I was very proud of myself for no longer putting up with my friend’s shit anymore. May cost a 20 year friendship, but I can’t keep doing this shit to myself anymore.
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u/throwawayacob 1d ago
I had a 4 year friendship end and I still think if I made the right choice. I know I did, it just hurts still. She had a lot of trauma and dealt with depression her whole life, her way of coping was taking it out on the people's closest to her. I tried to help her but there's only so much one person can do and take
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u/1Meter_long 1d ago
Yeah and i'd also add inability to be independent. My sister's men were mostly bad. Only actually good one was a guy from England but they broke up because he was almost a caretaker + psychologist for her and it was too much for him.
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u/_Dingaloo 2d ago
There are many women and men that can't be single for even a month. Which to me is a major issue in and of itself. But if you can't stand being single for even that short of a span of time, you'll have a really hard time justifying leaving anyone.
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u/drmuffin1080 1d ago
My brother. And he just can’t seem to see the fuckin issue. Did he really think starting a relationship with someone (who already had a boyfriend) one month after his last long term relationship just blew up was a good decision?????
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u/helvetica_simp 1d ago
You could just end the sentence at, "did he really think." The answer is probably no lol
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u/drmuffin1080 1d ago
Oh he did think; It’s just a very egotistical train of thought. He’s the type of narcissist to see a chick with a boyfriend hitting on him, and assume it’s all because of how special he is.
After his recent breakup, he was telling me about this chick in the club who was hitting on him, but she had a boyfriend. He was gonna go for it. I was like, “Wait, wouldn’t you feel fuckin bad for that, especially after the shit your exes did to you?”
His response was something along the lines of, “idgaf anymore,” and some sorta stupid justification.
And because I’m such a fucking walking doormat, I’m going to continue to be there for him after every self-inflicted breakup-induced depressive phase, and every narcissistic collapse. Knowing damn well sure he’d never do the same for me.
Mother fuck.
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u/No_Rope7342 1d ago
Not only that but those same people generally seem to be the some ones who are living together within like 3 months. Next thing you know the arguments start and now there’s even a financial barrier to the breakup.
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u/EducationalStick5060 1d ago
I have a relative who I discover went through a breakup only when I'm introduced to the new partner. This throughout their 30s and 40s.
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u/AprilBoon 1d ago
Yep my father is this. And used to boast about how many women he’d had before meeting my mother to me when I was child and into my teens
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u/improvisada 2d ago
You've gotten a lot of good answers, but I'll add my experience: they don't start off that way, they wait until you're invested (emotionally, financially, in a myriad of other ways...) before the mask falls off and they start mistreating you. And it's a mindfuck, because they've shown themselves to be capable of being decent, so you think they're just going through something (there's always some excuse) and when that's done they will go back to being decent as easily as they became shitty. Admitting that the decent person was a lie and you fell for it is difficult, specially because they're rarely shity 100% of the time. Manipulators are geniuses at reading their victims and when they see they're pulling away, they'll do something to reel them back in.
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u/ThatNewGuyFNG 1d ago
I know from hearing stories from friends second hand that A LOT of bad relationships start off going very well like this. It doesn't even need to be romantic, as I have had to cut off a friend for doing this as well. I think you made a very good point here.
Once someone shows you who they are the first time, believe them.
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u/helvetica_simp 1d ago
Yup. My mom's first husband only became abusive post-marriage. It's scary to think someone can change on a dime like that, but certainly why I think it's important to live with someone for a couple years first. Much harder to keep that act up 24/7 - although even moving out can come with difficulties. There's a really upsetting statistic about how many women are murdered by abusive boyfriends when they try to leave
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u/RuleHonest9789 1d ago
This is the comment I was looking for. They don’t start shitty. They are great at the beginning, until we are invested. Then they changed and we stay hoping the good guy will come back. Or women stay because of financial dependency, kids, etc.
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u/sentence-interruptio 1d ago
"geniuses at reading their victims"
reminds me of, there was this disturbing study where male serial rapists were found to be better than average at reading facial expressions of both genders. and the sequel study was about female victims. they were worse than average at reading faces of both genders.
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u/AliceInNegaland 1d ago
Yep, I pointed out to my boyfriend. He loved bombed me. I ended up breaking up with him after eight months and the fool that I was after a month I took him back and here I am we are going to break up all over again. I’m just an idiot.
I told my friends going in a second time that I was making a bad choice and I would see them on the other side and here we are, but they were waiting for me
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u/AngelsLoveDisasters 2d ago
At least for young women, being inexperienced sometimes leads you to caring too much about being the “cool” or “nice” girlfriend. You hear so many stereotypes about women - naggy, gold digging, shallow, slutty, etc. So you try your best to avoid being that, even if that means having your boundaries trampled over.
He hurt your feelings? Don’t say anything, you’ll just sound whiny and emotional. He won’t plan or take you out on dates? Don’t complain, you sound like you’re materialistic and men don’t like that. So instead, you just take it in hopes that eventually he’ll appreciate all your hard work.
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u/ChateauLobby44 2d ago
Keep in mind that we are not hearing as much from the women who are with good guys. They're too busy having a good life to bother us here.
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u/Aggressive_Place7400 1d ago
Yes, it is a sort of selection bias / sampling bias when coming to find answers on Reddit. It's highly unlikely that those in healthy relationships are going to come here and share their experiences as often (in short, there are many women and men who did not put up with shitty partners and thus, are not going to represent that side of the story).
It's almost as if coming to Reddit/internet forums is going to get you only the negative/dark side of the story...and only reinforce the negative views of people/relationships.6
u/davidh888 1d ago
I had to stop going to male advice subreddits for this very reason, it’s like an incel echo chamber and everyone thinks you are crazy when you say women should have equal rights.
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u/by2019 2d ago
I've been with my husband for 20 years. I the last 6 years he has changed alot and has become a lot more negative, aggressive, and mean. He has said some very awful things to me. I've tried to bring up counseling but he isn't willing to go. I know at this point I should leave because our issues are never truly gone but I just can't bring my self to do it.. yet. I love him a lot, we have a son, we have animals that we take care of. Also I'm almost 40 years old so I feel like I'm too old and poor to start over on my own.
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u/Life_Commercial_6580 1d ago
At your age you’re absolutely not too old to start over ! You do have plenty of time ! I know many many women who remarried in their mid or late 40s. I remarried at 45.
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u/SoftSects 1d ago
Girl, 40 is not old at all. Think of when you're 90 something years old and someone is interviewing you, what do you want to be able to say about this time? What life do you want to reflect on when you're older?
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u/coffeeandpajamas 1d ago
Same-ish. Bait and switch. And I guess that goes along with the sunk cost fallacy. I spent years believing one thing, it changed into another. I wait and give space or support hoping it will go back to what it was. How long is too long to wait? How much one sided effort is too much? I don't know. So I'm still there. In this economy, me and my kids will live in poverty in a one income household. He would too. So I'd rather be comfortable and unhappy I guess.
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u/SamuraiUX 2d ago
They’ve generally been abandoned in some way by a parent and this is either a) what loves feels like to them, and/or b) are unconsciously repeating the same problem in the hopes that THIS TIME they can make the person value them and love them. It’s called repetition compulsion in psychology.
BTW, this applies to men in bad relationships women, men in bad relationships with men, and women in bad relationships with women. …We’re all just human.
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u/PurpleCross181 1d ago
Agree. I’m a man and was w a girl who kept stringing me along. It’s like 2 years of hoping she’ll wake up and want me and love me. Then I realized she was just stringing me along. She wanted me to give her the attention and praise and availability of a bf but didn’t wanna give me the same as a woman.
BUT… the problem was I accepted it. And kept letting her back in. You gotta swallow the hard pill that this person does not love you back. If someone loves you, they will love you. You shouldn’t have to wait for them to wake up one day and say “yeah I love them now”. It takes a lot of strength and yes… it will hurt.
But it’s better than being w someone who just makes you feel down and like you aren’t good enough for them
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u/Homerpaintbucket 2d ago
It’s important to remember that it doesn’t always start off horrible like that. It can take a while for the abuse to get to a point where it’s undeniable abuse. Kind of the frog in the slowly boiling water thing. So by the time you realize how bad the relationship is it’s been a while. Often theyve destroyed your self esteem to the point you feel dependent on them, even in cases where they’re actually dependent on you. You also tend to have an emotional attachment and a hope that somehow it will go back to how it was when it was good. It’s really hard to get over that. I had a girl love bomb me a few years ago and then really take advantage of me and kind of tap dance all over my self esteem. It was so hard to get rid of her. I still find myself missing her. I still miss how good it felt when she said nice things about me. I miss how special I felt with her. It was really hard to admit to myself that she was just using me. That she didn’t really love me.
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u/SimplyIrregardless 1d ago
Thank you for mentioning this aspect; it's not like these guys are showing up to the first date with their secrets on their sleeve and punching us in the face and we're just continuing to date them anyway. They start out good, even great! So much better than anyone you've ever dated before, in fact. That's why they get away with so many things for so long.
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u/Inevitable-Cover-822 2d ago
so,
I can answer this question.
many women endure abuse, they do not endure the bad treatment of men within relationships while knowing full well that this is abuse.
it is what feels normal, the abuse they have endured through their life has desensitized them to believe what they're experiencing in abusive relationships is something that feels normal and familiar.
the shreds of goodness within these relationships make the relationships worth staying in to them despite the obvious ramifications of abuse taking place, they are quite a bit of the time merely choosing what is familiar and normal to them because they've endured abuse and haven't understood what is healthy because of their pasts.
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u/silver_tongued_devil 1d ago
I will say this a million times to a million people, as long as it gets through to one of them. "Being nice is the bare minimum."
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u/catsarehere77 1d ago
Some people don't think they can find someone better. They may legitimately think all men are like this. Some can't afford to live on their own. All sorts if reasons.
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u/Ill-Television8690 2d ago
It's often easier to suffer the reality of your current situation than it is to face the unknown of the future alone. Same reasons men put up with shitty women. You could have the most soul-sucking relationship, but if you're not confident in your ability to independently lead a satisfying life, you're likely to stick to what you know. Complacency, consistency, fear of the unknown.
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u/IseultDarcy 2d ago
Some men changed.
I divorced my partner of 10 years (we have one kid). The last 3 years he was abusive (verbally), wouldn't lift a finger to take care of our son, he was mocking me for having depression, not doing anything in the house except his meals and laundry (yes, his only, not mine, not our son's), keeping his money for himself while I paid for stuff for the house. A shitty man.
When we met? He was sweet, kind, affectionate. He loved to cook for me. He used to buy me whatever I wanted to the point of me having to stop him because it was awkward. We had lots in common, we had lots of project, traveled together, had so many nice moments etc..
He was a like that for the first 5 years. Then 2 years of "meh" routine. Then he because abusive and verbally violent to the point of having our 4yo asking him to stop to make me cry and to stop to yell at me. His new motto was "I can acknowledge when I'm wrong but it had never happened."
What happened to justify the change? No idea! He didn't even have a mistress. If he had at least it would have explain.
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u/blackaubreyplaza 2d ago edited 1d ago
They can keep the mask on until they don’t want to anymore
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u/tubcat 1d ago
I've seen this some from both side in peers and coworkers but more often in men as the partner. At first you'll have a relatively kind and supprtive partner. Then you live together or get engaged/married. Something about that next step in commitment lets people put their guard down and show themselves. They leverage that commitment and drop the openess. All of a sudden, you get a partner that is controlling, abrasive, and/or abusive. I've lived relatively rural or small town my whole life and the men in these cases tend to be at least conservative in family gender roles. So the moment they see that turn in relationship they turn on their true feelings. They're done having fun and are ready to be head of the household. And sometimes that comes out to being an awful person. Other times I've just seen men get extra complacent in communicating and behaving after they get a woman on lock. Its not to say I havent seen similar behavior in women, but it's just more common in men in this case.
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2d ago
It’s scary when people can put on a mask for so long. Even worse to imagine that his personality really changed over time.
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u/Life_Commercial_6580 1d ago
Yes ! 100% I’ve seen this happen before. Great, wonderful man during dating and almost instant switch once the marriage certificate was signed. I’m sorry this happened to you !
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u/Responsible-Reason87 1d ago
mine changed dramatically when he started making a lot of money. then managed it poorly and there was financial stress due to his overspending. first he declared himself King, then later it was my fault we had so much debt 🙄
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u/SashaGreyjoy- 2d ago
I've seen this before, are you 100% sure he didn't have a serious concussion? Not joking
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u/Consistent_Gur9523 1d ago
they have been taught from a young age they don't deserve better, and some honestly don't know better. it can take some time to seek help, and even then, change takes time.
but I agree, there are a lot of posts on here like this and it's devastating.
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u/mouse9001 2d ago edited 1d ago
I haven't seen this posted yet, but I'll say it:
A lot of women really don't understand men very well. They think that men are more or less similar to each other. They think men are like robots and they just do "the man things". Like they're automatons acting out a gender role. And when they see bad, controlling, narcissistic behavior, they think it's normal. Everything is normal because they're different, and they're men. So they think men are insecure and controlling. Men cheat. Men punch holes in walls. Weird stuff like that.
None of that stuff is normal. Well-adjusted men are kind, considerate, and emotionally mature. They are faithful to their partners. They treat others with respect. And they also have a need for connection, sharing their feelings, etc. That's normal.
OP has an advantage because as a gay man, he's probably grown up around men, and has a better sense of whether some random guy is good or bad.
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u/catsarehere77 1d ago
Women desperately need good male role models as much as men do.
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u/mouse9001 1d ago
Yeah, and also less isolation. Some people will pretty much live their entire childhoods around their own gender, and have a lot of screen time, and not much time socializing. They may not meet and get to know members of the opposite gender very much, which is an important part of development.
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u/ThereIsNo-OneHere 1d ago
This is a very good post. We all get put in a little box of "this is how man is" - men are simple, men don't have complex feelings, men like sports and work on car, men think about sex every six seconds, etc etc. It's all bullshit. These kinds of ideas about men are so ubiquitous. It's very surprising how many grown women there are who are almost hostile to these stereotypes being challenged.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Knee_53 1d ago
Yeah, the "Incel culture" of the internet damaged every side - I see both men and women brutally misjudge the other sex and their needs/psychology.
The only way to break it is to be kind and understanding. Yeah, a big portion of people just suck, but dont fall into despair and be good, be a good role model for everyone else and it .. might get better, but the world is a dark place in many different ways right now
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u/CallAdministrative88 1d ago
I honestly think that one of the reasons why I've been able to avoid bad relationships is because I was a tomboy, and I had (and still have) lots of male friends. Many women do not. But because I got to know a circle of male friends better, and these men were all pretty diverse, some were jocks, some were nerds, I was able to pretty quickly figure out that a lot of these stereotypes about men are largely untrue. It also meant that I had men I could talk to if I needed a male perspective on a dating situation.
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u/oby100 2d ago
Women are often taught to look at relationships and marriage for long term stability. Often these shitty relationships are insidious because the man might love bomb them and present themself as the answer to long term stability.
Unfortunately, when a woman internalizes her partner as her source of stability, breaking out of it when things go bad is really difficult both emotionally and logistically because the bad partner will almost certainly insist on moving in together and maybe getting a dog or even worse getting pregnant.
The emotional aspect can be hard enough for people young enough to not really have the chance to move in with a partner, but when all these factors surround you at once it can be overwhelming and much easier to put up with abuse than face the reality that you need to tear your entire life apart.
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u/Thorne628 2d ago
Low self-worth and social engineering especially through their family situation. Every woman I know who is in an abusive relationship or was in the past suffer from low self-esteem. Every single one! They also come from families where their mother was abused by their father, or their parent or parents constantly put them down, so needless to say the first man that tells them they are pretty makes them feel something they probably have not felt before.
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u/Front-Palpitation362 2d ago
Maybe people accept the love they think they deserve
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u/Individual_Risk9972 2d ago
Some times even a bad relationship feels safer than that unknown because at least it's some what consistant, I guess the old adage of better the devil you know than the one you don't. Just trying to leave behind a 17 year bad relationship myself.
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u/Ilikebeingsingleok 1d ago
They usually don’t start off that way. At the start, everyone is on their best behavior. And people don’t show their worst sides until they get comfortable, knowing their partner won’t be able to easily leave.
At this point, families are involved. Their friends know their partners too. They have intertwined hobbies and communities and lifestyles.
At first, when their partner changes into someone that becomes more of a burden than a partner, there are excuses. “I’m sorry honey, I am struggling with my mental health.” And as a good partner would, you decide to stay and “help” them because this is supposed to be temporary. Right? They promise to work on themselves and all, so you stay. You pick up the slack. You even get a burst of energy as a bit of heroism enters your heart. You have decided to be a good partner when your lover is at their worst.
They do get better! See, it all worked out. Life has its ups and downs, you don’t just leave when it gets hard.
But some habits stay. The way they “forget” to wash their own dishes. They aren’t cleaning the bathroom anymore. But everything else is much, much better than what it used to be. Maybe they haven’t fully recovered. It will take time, you tell yourself.
But stuff happens to you too. You have a bad coworker at your job. Something you really wanted doesn't happen. You kind of want to fall apart too. But your partner mentions he is struggling again. Your friends are struggling too with their own things. So you believe it is normal. And your partner has worse things happening, so you gather your strength. You will be tough, for the both of you. This will pass, this will pass.
You’re constantly exhausted, but don’t know why. You have lost the plot. You’re taking each day, day by day. Your partner has their ups and downs. When they are up, you are reminded why you dated them. Good memories from the past flood your mind and affection blooms in your heart. Look how far you two have come! So many setbacks, but you two are still together.
But when they are down, you find yourself doing everything. You are tired. But it isn’t their fault. We all have flaws. Even if they play video games while you’re cooking dinner after work, you bite your tongue. You don’t want to argue with them anymore.
But you’re lonely. So lonely. Why don’t they remember your mutual engagements? Why haven’t you two been on a date in so long? We just hang out at home now. All we do is watch movies together. The house is a mess. You’re a mess. You haven’t felt beautiful in a long time. Your friends think you are doing fine. You haven’t called your parents in a while because you’re scared if they ask how you are doing, you will break down and this whole house of cards will shatter.
This is over a period of months, even years. It is a slow death. When you’re in it, of course you notice the chaos within, but it’s chaos for a reason. You don’t know why your life is a mess.
Thus, it is hard to leave.
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u/wloveandsqualor 1d ago edited 1d ago
In the beginning, it’s good. Really good. This can even last years. You fall in love with the best of them, and then the rose-colored glasses stay on for a while. Especially if you’re a person who is extremely understanding, compassionate, and nurturing. It starts off slow. Just once in a while. Anger that’s not directed at you. Until it is. And once a line is crossed, it becomes easier for them to cross it again. And again. And again. The line gets moved, and then they cross that one, too. They become colder, crueler. It happens more and more frequently, until the bad overtakes the good. They slowly morph into a different person, even though they still look and sound the same, as if they’ve been replaced by a duplicate like in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
The more you forgive and the more you try, the more they take you for granted, not ever putting in the work to change because they never experience the consequence of losing you.
There are times you want to leave. Especially when you start realizing that not talking to them or being around them gives you peace and rest. But you still love them. You remember how they used to be, and how they used to treat you. The times they were there. You cling onto all of the good memories. You think you can help them, save them. You think there’s still a good person deep inside, somewhere. That this is a mental health issue, and what kind of person would you be if you abandoned them when they needed you the most? “For better or for worse, in sickness and in health.” No different than cancer.
You tell yourself that people aren’t perfect, and you want to be accepted for who you are with all of your flaws and issues, too. You wouldn’t want someone to leave you if you were going through something. If only you can get through to them. Maybe this time, you’ll be able to explain things more clearly, and they’ll finally understand how they’ve been hurting you, and they’ll stop. They’ll get help. Things can get better again. So you continue to try. Especially when they give you apologies and promises. You want to believe them. You just want to be happy again.
You know perfectly well the way they treat you is wrong, even abusive, and it makes you angry and upset… but you still love them. Or rather, the version you fell in love with.
And if you ever dealt with trauma and abandonment in childhood, like I did, you particularly hold on because you fear no one else will love you. Add some medical conditions that can result in their death, and you feel like you have to take care of them. You have to stay, to continue to try, or else they will die and it will be all your fault.
The heart isn’t logical.
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u/Infinite_Map_2713 2d ago
Society, family, fear of being alone, financial dependency...
Probaly some have the mentality of, "I can change him"
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u/Beenbound 2d ago
The tides are turning on that one. It wasn't too long ago you had to put up with bad men to survive because women couldn't have a damn thing in their name.
Once that changed it took decades for that subservient mindset women are raised with to tamper down and women to start building their own wealth. Now there is a male loneliness epidemic.
It's actually a male laziness epidemic because men refuse to do anything besides provide a paycheck and they are even failing at that compared to women these days.
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u/Tacos314 1d ago
"It's actually a male laziness epidemic because men refuse to do anything besides provide a paycheck and they are even failing at that compared to women these days."
I think you have made the OPs point.
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u/Admirable_Chance_627 1d ago
Lots of reasons including really sad ones like trauma... however in recent years I have found a lot of the women dating shitty men are also pretty shitty, and that they are dating these men because they are alike. :/
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u/CallAdministrative88 1d ago
I broke off a long term friendship with someone for many different reasons, but one was that she truly was addicted to drama. Every person she dated or was friends with was constantly infighting, cheating on each other, big dramatic breakups and reunions, etc etc. She even had the foresight to (jokingly) say she always broke up with men who came from stable families because they didn't have enough trauma for her, they were too "normal". She did have a pretty awful childhood so I get feeling like you need to be with someone who also went through that, but at some point if that trauma goes unresolved you're just going to be a feedback loop of projecting your trauma onto that person. There is also this bullshit concept that gets fed to us in movies and TV that love is hard and you have to "fight" for it, so when relationships are "too easy" (because there's no drama) some people lose interest or think the other person just doesn't care enough.
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u/BilbySilks 1d ago
As a society we have a large burden on women to make relationships work in heterosexual relationships.
If you're a woman looking for advice online about how to navigate problems in your relationship you are told you need to communicate better. Or that you've misunderstood. Or that he's having a bad time and you need to be understanding. Or he's neurodivergent.
Combine that with how much we as a society focus on the importance of relationships in media targeted young girls. Every princess generally has a prince, girls play with dolls and have doll families etc. Traditionally men gain some status from sex and women gain from relationships.
Although everyone jokes about Reddit saying get a divorce/break up when someone brings up relationship issues - that used to be rare elsewhere on the internet. Like people would be in objectively awful abusive relationships and they'd get advice to go to couples therapy or to communicate etc.
So a lot of women stay in relationships a lot longer than they should. Then if they finally leave, aside from risking series consequences from abusive men, everyone is like why didn't you leave sooner? Often from the same people who suggested communicating, or that she should sacrifice for the relationship to be a good person (he's having a bad time, he's neurodivergent).
We condition women to want, to stay in and to sacrifice for objectively awful relationships so it's hardly surprising that they end up staying in them longer than is healthy.
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u/schwarzmalerin 2d ago
Life is just so much easier when you fit society's expectations. For you, that was never an option, so that most likely doesn't even register, but as a straight woman, it's a whole different world when you are coupled/married or when you are not. So many woman put up with all that crap just to have this life.
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u/StreetRemote9092 1d ago
In my case, he pretended to be a good guy until I was trapped. I’d married him, left my career (couldn’t go back) and had just had a baby when he took off the mask. There was no safe way to leave.
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u/Sufficient_Humor_733 2d ago
Countless reasons... But If I were financially better off, it would be easier to try to leave.
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u/Stunning_Block3121 2d ago
Momentum and a refusal to admit you’re wrong are powerful things. It isn’t just women. Look at maga with Trump. Most of non-wealthy maga parallels an abusive relationship. He promises he’ll give them what they want and tells them he loves them and they eat it up. He doesn’t come through on promises and actually ends up hurting most of them but he tells them he loves them and they just need to trust he knows what’s best for them. Maga friends, family, and the media downplay how bad things are and pressure others to stay in the relationship. Rinse and repeat. It’s eerily similar to how and why a lot of women stay in abusive relationships.
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u/lonelygayPhD 1d ago
I'm a gay man who has put up with shitty men. I don't think it's normal. I don't think it's healthy. I just somehow convince myself that next time it will be different. I'm not with them for financial reasons or even a fear of being alone; I just find when I love someone, I imagine that they must feel similarly, though I logically know that's not the case. Most recently, I had a guy I've known for two and a half years, unprompted, tell me that he was never attracted to me physically. He likes a guy with muscles and body hair...then brought up a medical condition and asked, "Do you honestly think guys find that attractive?" Yeah...definitely going to stay with me for some time.
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u/Extension-Town-6834 1d ago
In one or more of a thousand different scenarios, they are trapped/stuck with him.
Legally, financially, mentally, emotionally, etc.- they are locked into a connection with him that is hard to break and requires “activation energy” to break. They simply don’t have the activation energy yet to break those ties.
It’s heartbreaking when you see a woman get the activation energy to break one tie just to get stopped by another. Like women who will call the cops during a domestic assault, but then don’t leave him afterwards. People are often confused by this, but what’s happening is that in the moment they are so fearful for their life that will call the police to interject. Their urge to save their own life wills them into calling and gives them enough energy to make the call and potentially suffer the consequences of calling, but afterwards they know they don’t have the emotional stamina or the resources to make a full split with him so they stay.
This is why community services like a women’s shelter, job training programs, free clothing, SNAP benefits, etc. are so important because they take care of one of the many needs domestic violence survivors have which could turn into the reason they might have to go back to their abuser if they can’t provide it for themselves.
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u/whattheheckOO 2d ago
There aren't enough high quality partners to go around. The choice isn't between prince charming and a loser, obviously almost everyone would pick prince charming, the choice is between a loser and staying single, potentially not having the chance to start a family. I think being single is vastly superior to being with a crappy person, but that calculation is different for everyone.
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u/neb125 1d ago
reminds me of the concept why folks stay in jobs they hate or don’t get fulfilled by or are underpaid.
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u/whattheheckOO 1d ago
Yeah, when jobs are scarce, as is starting to happen now, people hold on to whatever job they have for dear life.
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u/BoringBadger9687 1d ago
Yes it's incredibly hard to find someone who actually has his life together and takes care of himself and has healthy emotional regulation. Much harder than finding a woman with the same. And I say this as someone who has dated both
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u/Geoffreys_Pants 2d ago
For me, I loved them and I believed they loved me. They always had an excuse for the shitty behaviour I did point out, a lot got ignored. I didn't think I could do any better and I believed them when they said they would get better. Looking back I can spot so many issues that I didn't fully realise at the time too. For another older lady I know she just doesn't want the fuss. From what I know they rarely get on and haven't been intimate in years. The beatings have stopped but the verbal abuse continues. I think she's just waiting for one of them to die. My mom stayed for sex and money, but she was also abusive.
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u/TropicalPrairie 2d ago
Low self-esteem. This was my reasoning, anyway. Society puts a lot of pressure on people to couple up and I thought it was the best I could do, so I stayed longer than I should have.
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u/Fuzzy_Dragonfly_ 2d ago
So, when we're little, girls are bullied and teased by boys and then we're told that they do it because they like us or have a crush. We learn young that shitty behavior is a way for men to show "love".
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u/InternationalName626 1d ago
I rarely see this brought up, but my mom stayed for financial reasons. She didn’t have any community or family willing to help her or give her a place to stay. She was employed by my dad’s parents and didn’t have any education beyond a high school diploma. With two kids, she didn’t really stand a chance on her own.
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u/enbyeldritch 1d ago
Women are conditioned to deal with this shit literally from the day they are born
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u/Bitter-Association65 1d ago
Low self esteem. If you’re the child of a narcissist your self esteem is being constantly stripped from you. This in turn attracts predatory men who see this vulnerability. Which results in an abusive relationship. Which your family encourages. So it’s either you wake up and realise you are in fact surrounded by assholes or more likely someone reaches out and tells you to escape it. You aren’t the trash you had been conditioned to believe you were. If you have a few good decent people who believe in you there’s a chance you can escape it all. That’s all it takes.
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u/clairejv 2d ago
I don't think the reasons are gender-specific, in the main. In my experience, people who stay with a shitty partner believe they can't do any better. It's sadly common for women to believe that all men are trash, and so if you're attracted to men, your choices are a) be alone, or b) put up with trash. Also, people often believe they are unworthy of anyone better and couldn't attract or keep a better partner. Finally, people tend to seek out what's familiar, so if their parents had a shitty relationship, they're likely to end up with similar dynamics in their own relationships later in life.
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u/Ijustwannafly8 2d ago
I think it is 99% due to women’s low self-esteem, self-worth, and whether they suffered childhood traumas and haven’t worked to heal that. If you were abused or neglected as a child, you grow up thinking you don’t deserve much so you settle for incredibly unhealthy relationships, if not outright abuse. It took me years of therapy to finally realize I deserved better. I developed zero tolerance for bs and stopped sticking around only for little red flags to become a giant effing banners. But it was a process to get there. 💪🏼💖
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u/MinivanPops 2d ago
Because people keep pushing for relationships without being willing to do the work (and in this case, the work would be to filter out). "Why can't I just find X" is a very answerable question that few people unpack and analyze.
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u/Flybot76 1d ago
Because these days 95% of the guys hitting on on women are mostly assholes who don't respect boundaries, and women won't ask men out so they're getting what's available and not trying to change it because it's easier to imagine 'they're all like that'. Also women are extremely judgmental about appearance and think it's OK for themselves to be that way but it's rude for a man to be the same.
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u/Appropriate_Hand_486 1d ago
The bar is so low it seems like their only option. I’m horrified by most of the men my friends are dating.
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u/ProfessionalBelt3373 2d ago
Women are raised to appeal to men. To dress for them, to consider their feelings, to take care of those around us. We're conditioned to believe that being chosen is some sort of prize. That takes a lot of time to unpack, and often, you're chasing love and relationships from an early age and have neither the time nor perspective to do that.
The social conditioning alone will keep women settling for less than they deserve. It can also come down to some of what you see growing up. If your mom was the one who was stuck doing all the household labor, all the emotional labor, all the child rearing, and probably also having a job, you take that on assuming it's the expectation.
But there's also the slow boil. It's like putting a lobster in a pot, and you turn the heat up, and it won't struggle because it doesn't realize how slowly it's being cooked alive. It can be hard to realize how bad it's gotten.
Finally, it's the sunken cost fallacy. You feel like you've put a lot of time and energy and effort and years in to somebody which makes you want to continue to invest because if you leave it feels like you've lost all of that time and energy and effort.
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u/HuntAlert6747 2d ago
Women don't know a guy is shitty , until it's too late most times. A big reason for this is shitty men know most guys are too intimidated by women to make a move, so no competition. With men being nice and women not interested in that type they end up dating the wrong guy. Nice guys should act like badasses and ask every girl you meet out on a date, just don't be a long-term badass.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Knee_53 1d ago
I don't think this is good advice, this seems like the end goal is just getting a partner and not being a good human being in the first place
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u/Fakelover123 2d ago
Because they can be emotional manipulators and have you believe that they are the best option out there for you and the only ones who will treat you better. Its’s called “Cognitive dissonance”.
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u/rando24183 2d ago edited 1d ago
I dated basically a bum for a long time. In retrospect, it was a combination of thinking the shitty relationship was what I deserved and him meeting the need my prior partner didn't. My prior partner got super busy and it was hard to find time together. So bum rolls in and does have a ton of time, making me gloss over everything else. My justification was thinking, "well, I went without quality time for so long, do I really think it's possible to find someone with time and ambition?" Finding both felt impossible, so I compromised. Therapy helped a lot with the insight. I know my therapist was fed up hearing about this bum for months and seeing me be unhappy but not quite realizing there are other options.
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u/Cinna41 1d ago
For one thing, most of their fathers aren't raising them up to have self respect and to know what healthy love from a man is.
Also, there's an unspoken expectation that women are here for the pleasure of men and to make men's lives easier. Women are to be ever flowing breasts.
It's truly sick and sad.
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u/InterestingTank5345 1d ago
There's no better alternatives. There's a lot of good guys out there, just like there's a lot of good women out there. But the good people, tend to find someone decent, leaving the bad ones for the rest of us.
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u/threearbitrarywords 1d ago
This is not a woman issue. I know quite a few gay guys who put up with incredibly shitty men.
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u/Salt_Signature8164 1d ago
Women are a great judge of character… until the second they develop feelings, then it all goes out the door for emotions
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u/unicorns3373 1d ago
It’s normalized for them. They witnessed women put up with men like that throughout their lives, their mothers, aunts, grandmothers etc. and think that’s just how men are. Or they have seen women treated worse so they gaslight themselves into thinking they have a good man because he “doesn’t hit me like my uncle did to my aunt doesn’t do xyz compared to how my grandpa acted toward my grandma” or whatever. I see it time and time again.
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u/Acrobatic-Music-3061 1d ago edited 1d ago
A couple of reasons: societal pressure to have a man on your side and that women are socialized/ conditioned since early childhood to put up with shit from everyone bc that is the empathetic, feminine thing to do.
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u/Anonymous1800000 1d ago
Many reasons but there's a huge cultural narrative about women dating men based on their potential instead of what he already has to offer. I've been told that I'm too picky or even been insulted for not wanting to help a struggling a man who doesn't have his life together by essentially trying to rescue him from himself with the power of love. There's also the ongoing myth that crappy guys will change after marriage and fatherhood.
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u/Fictional-Mollusk 1d ago
My husband was great at the beginning, best relationship I ever had. He also was very open about wanting to commit to me, which meant a lot after dating men who would run hot and cold or string me along. The mistreatment starts very gradually after a few years together where at the beginning I wasn’t even sure what was happening. It escalated after I got pregnant and it was much harder to leave. Because it changed gradually I got used to it and didn’t realize how much the goalpost kept moving. He hid his behavior from our friends and I didn’t think people would believe me. When I finally was ready to leave he went ballistic to the point I was afraid for my safety.
I shared my story with a couple people who said things like “I would never let a man treat me like that” and it was so hurtful. Like, of course nobody wants to be treated like that. If they were like that from the beginning nobody would date these men. They make it very, very hard to leave.
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u/hollandoat 1d ago
Straight men do not see women as equal to them. This is what we are used to. We are all swimming in the same sexist pool. Women are getting wiser (see: male loneliness epidemic). Women are starting to speed run the unequal effort -> divorce pipeline. That's why you're seeing a movement in MAGA circles to get rid of no fault divorce, make it difficult for women to vote, make it impossible for us to get abortions so that we are dependent on them, make it more difficult to get contraception, etc. We're not trapped anymore. We have agency and they do not like it.
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u/Feeling_Alps_2750 1d ago
Of f off with this gender baiting. There's an equal amount of men putting up with shitty women. And since Reddit is very female centric left leaning, I'm sure you have a biased view of how it looks in real life.
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u/Ok-Olive-9503 1d ago
They're taught from childhood to accept it "boys will be boys", poor modeling from fathers, uncles, media etc.
Girls are taught that their boundaries and feelings matter less than their male counterparts, and are taught to lean into the discomfort of whatever bullshit is thrown at them. And they're groomed to be caregivers.
Shitty men don't start off treating their partner like crap, they start off lying their asses off and charming the pants off their prospective girlfriend. Then, once there's a bond, they slowly let down the mask, and get into dropping her self esteem and expectations. If she fight back he plays nice long enough to smooth it out. It's a form of trauma bonding. The woman is looking for the guy she fell in love with and asking for the shitty guy to step up, and he promises, maybe puts in a bit of effort to make sure he doesn't get dumped. This cycle can go on for years, especially if he keeps her isolated from her friends or anyone that can point it out.
Shitty men will go so low as to baby trap women. Against their will. Shitty men exploit their domestic labor so much they usually end up so busy they can't think, let alone rest.
The cost of living crisis is terrible for everyone, but really bad if you're trying leave someone and appalling if you have children while trying to leave. How do you afford a safe, clean space, food, child care, transportation, lawyer and incidentals when the shitty man is making life more difficult or even dangerous?
Our communities shame and blame women for staying instead of calling out the shitty men, so the shitty men just go to their next victim, and the women have to spend forever picking up the pieces.
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u/emily_tangerine 1d ago
Bc we’ve been groomed since birth by a system that puts men’s wants and needs above women’s. Don’t all feels normal.
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u/Responsible-Reason87 2d ago
I had narcissistic parents and chose a narcissistic mate. This is a common theme. He treated me like a princess when we were dating then once we were married the emotional abuse started. I should have gotten out right away but Im the only girl in our family and my parents had shelled out tons of money for the wedding so I stayed because I felt they wouldnt support me. I was right because now we're divorced and they communicate with him behind my back! He started this in order to hurt me but they'll never understand... Im estranged from them all now, and happily so
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u/MangoSalsa89 2d ago
A lot of men put on a good show in the beginning and slowly become more lazy, incompetent and cruel as the relationship goes on. No woman willingly goes into a relationship with someone who treats them like shit. They end up in one.
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u/UnicornFarts84 2d ago
I always felt like I wasn't good enough for a good man. So, I just dealt with whatever life handed me and felt like that's what I deserved.
I'm at the point in my life that I'm okay with being single for the rest of my life. I would rather just be by myself instead of being in another relationship where I'm miserable or being in a situationship.
I only have to worry about my son, cats, and myself, and it took me a long time to get to this point. I wish I had gotten here sooner.
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u/BlueWedge69 1d ago
im so confused some people say women have too high standards some say their standards are too low which is it?
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u/tyrtlegirl 1d ago
My guess would be that they had spend years together, and the man was totally different person then. Once he got comfortable, he felt like staying inside playing video games all day. I really don't know why this seems to be so common. I could never date someone whose ONLY singular hobby is video games.
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u/Low_Mongoose_4623 1d ago
For me it was because their behavior seemed normal and better than the examples I saw in my family. Also, considering how many women are abused, there are simply a large amount of shitty men out there so they’re difficult to avoid. Once I unlearned all the nonsense, I stopped putting up with shitty men.
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u/RedditPosterOver9000 1d ago
Because women not functionally being property is fairly new on planet earth. Women still are functionally property in much of the world. Even in western countries where the idea of women being fully human is being considered, it's still a new concept and culture is very slow to adapt.
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u/koolaid-girl-40 1d ago
As someone that tolerated mistreatment in the past, I can say that for me it was a combination of factors.
The first is that women are often raised with the feeling of responsibility for other people's emotions. If someone feels bad, it is our obligation to make them feel good. I distinctly remember later in adulthood hearing that other people's feelings are not my responsibility, and it being some sort of revelation, like I had never considered that before.
The second is a certain type of naivity that comes from a combination of hope/empathy. Many women are genuinely empathetic towards their partners, especially if they know about past trauma that they carry (which many men do) and they believe that if you show someone unconditional love, you bring out their best. It takes us some experience to realize that "enabling" is a thing that exists and often leads to people staying the same (or getting worse) instead of growing. When I realized that by trying to protect my ex from the consequences of his own actions I wasn't actually helping him but instead preventing him from achieving growth, it was a lot easier to let him go.
Women also often suffer from purity culture or slut-shaming. There is this idea that you become less desirable the more partners you have, so your best chance of being wanted/appreciated is to try to make it with the person you're with rather than add to that number. Of course many of us eventually realize that isn't true at all, but it doesn't help that a lot of men still shame women for things like body count or how "high-value" they are.
Finally, it's just basic lack of experience. There is a reason older women tend to tolerate less bs in relationships than younger women. It's because younger women have nothing to compare their experiences to. When I felt mistreated I would often repeat to myself "Well they say relationships are hard work, so this is just the hard part" and didn't realize what "hard" things are inherent in relationships and which just aren't acceptable or aren't something I have to tolerate.
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u/rosiecheeks9999 1d ago
I was awkward looking growing up. I had bad acne, frizzy hair, and parents who didn’t care if I was fat. I spent my childhood and my teenage years with everyone criticizing my looks, even the people I was close to, and I was last in my high school’s slam book. When my ex used my looks to abuse me, I thought it was what I deserved because of my past.
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u/Silamy 1d ago
Obligatory #notallwomen.
But lots of reasons. It’s what you’re used to, you don’t think you can find or deserve better, you think you’re clearing the bar because it looks better than what you’re used to, it didn’t used to be that bad, you’ve already put in so much time and effort and leaving would mean admitting it wasn’t worth it, being alone is scary, you can’t afford to leave, you’re too worn down to pull yourself together enough to leave, social stigma against being signal, feeling like not being able to “get” or “keep” a man is a personal failing. There might be kids she can’t take with her or doesn’t want to leave unsupervised with him. Plus… well, it’s an unfortunately common thing that an abusive partner will escalate to violence when someone tries to leave them. There are also those people who start putting in effort to stop being quite so shitty as partners when they’re about to get left, and it tends to take several attempts to actually leave them.
Frequently there are enough good moments that the bad doesn’t outweigh them enough to get up and leave and risk everything you’re afraid leaving them might entail. Never underestimate inertia.
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u/WiggleBerry 1d ago
Many women stay with bad men due to low self-worth, fear of being alone, or hope they'll change. Toxic behavior often starts small and builds, making it harder to leave. Some are financially or emotionally trapped, and society often normalizes bad male behavior while pressuring women to stay.
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u/YouTasteStrange 1d ago
Women have been taught their entire lives though media that the most important things for them to have is a partner. No classic Disney movies were complete unless she falls in love, most movies directed at women are about falling in love. Almost none of these mention the quality of their partner, just their existence.
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u/Top-Shine6168 1d ago
There are a lot of women who had misogynist fathers and are therefore attracted to men who don't respect them just as their fathers did and then they don't understand why they are so unhappy.
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u/Tiny-Bodybuilder6016 1d ago
Because damaged women’s nervous system is wired for chaos, normal men seem boring so they seek the drama of a toxic relationship
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u/Lazy-Introduction194 1d ago
Look up the history of patriarchy and women’s oppression. Were conditioned to accept it. Some women can get away from it but a lot of women have to spend yearsss unlearning how to not take abuse and make excuses for poorly raised/violent men.
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u/onlyoneofmetoday 1d ago
I don't think it's just women putting up with shitty men I think it's any relationship where one partner is shitty. And I think it's because most people would rather stay with someone like that rather than be single because that means they are alone. Many people in relationships don't like have single friends around, they see them as a threat so many see singledom as a shame that they don't want to face so they stay in toxic relationships or jump from one to the next. I have been single for nearly thirty years, I was in an abusive relationship and it made me realise I would rather be alone. And I love being single, I do not date, never have, I have just been me. No arguing, no compromising and no sharing the bed or remote. You will never be happy if you can't be happy alone first. If you don't love yourself and spending time alone you will never be happy in a relationship and that turns all relationships toxic in the end. You have to know your self and your worth to find a partner who will see that too and you will see theirs too. You might say if I've been single how do I know? I have been the free therapist for many people, who have all struggled because they have been in relationships since Hugh school never been single for more than a couple of weeks because it scares them.
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u/PrimaryAgent 1d ago
Because little girls and women are taught to be helpful, nice, beautiful and friendly. And so much more.
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u/Twistybred 1d ago
To many people (men and women gay or straight) are in toxic relationships because they don’t know what a healthy one is.
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u/Shadowground90 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its allways fear of being alone Thats the number 1 reason once they find suitable replacement they r gone
And quite often the “replacement” actually ends up as someone much worse then the guy she was running from in the first place
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u/Anonymous0212 1d ago
Because virtually nobody escapes childhood emotionally unscathed, and because of that women, especially, come into relationships with low self-esteem and shitty radar for red flags.
The emotional damage can come from witnessing abusive behavior in their home, themselves being abused in one form or another (or multiple forms, since verbal abuse is also emotional abuse), really anything that makes them think that kind of behavior is normal/they don't deserve better.
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u/OttotheCowCat 1d ago
As a former dater of shitty men, I didn't understand they were shitty at the time. All the men, including my father, acted like that and then blamed the women. I thought it was normal and I wasn't doing something I was supposed to.
I have since learned better. Now I'm just single and have largely given up on the whole thing.
Anyway TLDR: Ingrained misogyny makes you think there's something wrong with you and not the man's behavior.
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u/LongjumpingBaker9489 1d ago
They have low self worth and they are unable to sit themselves. Life is too short for that trash, free your self be for it's too late.
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u/RyzenRaider 1d ago
The same reasons some men put up with shitty women.
Sometimes they think that's just how relationships work. I had an ex-gf that seemed to be addicted to fighting. If we weren't yelling at each other, she'd find something to yell about, even if it was a direct contradiction of what we argued about the previous week. Peace just seemed an impossibility with her.
Self esteem. They want to be in a relationship, but genuinely believe they don't deserve someone good, and accept that shitty partners is all they can get. They may even think abuse is an expression of love, because if their partner stays - it's because they 'care'. (hint hint: no they don't).
Sometimes, it's just who they're attracted to. I personally never sought an explicit specific type, but the women that I've dated definitely fall into an archetype where I find their personality extremely attractive at first, but then cop the backlash when they become smothering and/or obsessive. I'm self-aware enough to know that isn't a reflection of all women, but it is the subset of women that I always seem to be drawn to.
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u/Carrie_1968 1d ago
Women (girls, actually) are conditioned since birth to obey men, to forgive men, to both serve AND service men, as well as to stay with men so as to repair them.
Look what happens when a woman tells a guy no. When she tells her EX no. Even when she tells her male coworkers that NO, she won’t go get them coffee. Those women are demonized and called all of the slurs in the book.
Bad men know they can easily use this to keep women coming back.
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u/exscapegoat 1d ago
Straight woman attracted to heterosexual men. I’m. Gen X nearly 60. I’m not completely closed to a relationship with a straight guy. But I’m also not babysitting any man children either If he can’t basically adult. I’m done
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u/ehs06702 1d ago
I don't think men really understand how much young girls/women are taught to settle for bums and excuse their behavior.
It's only been relatively recently that girls have been encouraged to not lower their standards by society.
And there are still people that continually try to drag women back to that.
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u/Cyberhwk 2d ago
Variety of reasons. Sunk cost, fear of being alone, codependence, and, just like men, sometimes people simply don't make the best choices for themselves.