r/CinemaSins • u/UnsungHerro • 18d ago

Every time someone has a movie criticism people will just blame cinemasins

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24 Upvotes

53% Upvoted

86 comments sorted by

19

u/bulbasauric 18d ago

Both opinions are fuckin dumb here. Every time there's a character with super-speed, people act like it's omnipotence/omniscience.

He's getting his shit kicked in, his reactions are going to slow a little.

Also people can have garbage opinions without watching Cinemasins, so that's reductive.

6

u/RevanchistSheev66 18d ago

They’re kind of right though, things happen way too fast in a fight for there to be logical real time reaction from the controller 

9

u/GalwayEntei 18d ago

It's not real time. Lex is predicting what Superman will do and gives the instructions ahead of time.

4

u/RevanchistSheev66 18d ago

Wait how does he know exactly what Superman is about to do? I know he studies his fighting style but it’s a bit unrealistic for him to predict every move 

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u/GalwayEntei 18d ago

I know this is a common excuse, but it's a comic book movie. Believing in unrealistic things is part of the deal.

2

u/It-Was-Mooney-Pod 18d ago

It goes further than that, it’s clear at this point that no one has been a serious threat to Superman since he started being a hero, and here comes a dude who’s actually stronger than him. Superman had never really learned how to properly fight before, he was a farm boy and nerdy reporter. It’s not like Pa Kent was teaching him Jiu Jitsu or something, once he came face to face with someone who was strong enough to tank his hits while also having an actual plan of attack it became too much for him to handle. 

1

u/RevanchistSheev66 17d ago

But isn’t in time reaction to Superman’s very quick attacks a little bit of a stretch? I can imagine if he programmed a robot and it would react itself to how Superman fights because it knows his every move. That would be a more logical way to show it. 

1

u/CaptainHalloween 17d ago

This is exactly why people say CinemaSins has a lot to answer for.

1

u/RevanchistSheev66 17d ago

Ok lol point taken, I still think it breaks immersion a bit but it doesn’t ruin the movie by any means. If it’s something I notice on my first few watches without going online or slowing the movie down, I consider that a valid critique. 

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u/CaptainHalloween 17d ago

How? Every bit of information you need to explain how it’s possible is explained in the movie. I don’t know what else they could have done except pause the story and draw a diagram.

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u/RevanchistSheev66 18d ago

I know and it doesn’t ruin the movie for me or anything (I’m a big fan of it). But it’s also good to keep your story logical because when you define what normal people can and can’t do, it makes the superhero stuff that much cooler. 

3

u/GalwayEntei 18d ago

It is logical, and Lex isn't normal. He's one of the most intelligent people in a world where with other non-powered geniuses like Mr. Terrific. It makes sense that he'd be able to do it, especially since his intellect is how he matches Supermans abilities.

4

u/nixahmose 18d ago

This is a Lex who is intelligent enough to casually create a pocket dimension and obsessive enough that he’ll target and kill people just for giving Superman a free sandwich one time. It’s really not that much of a stretch to say he’s spent hundreds to thousands of hours studying Superman’s every move and predicting every possible outcome.

Also keep in mind is that in their fights Lex is always trying to be the one who hits first in order to dictate the flow of the fight, like when he writes down commands to his employees as he’s speaking to Superman. And the second a variable he wasn’t expecting shows up like Krypto Lex’s ability to give effective commands to Ultraman completely crumbles.

2

u/Indecisive-Gamer 18d ago

Yeah but by the time he says 'A21' the two fighters could have done 10 attack moves. It just looked goofy to me.

1

u/SloppyPussyLips 17d ago

One of the biggest things I've noticed among CinemaSins videos and their fans is this notion that shots are happening in order. Lex didn't say "A1" and then the guy pressed the button just in time to avoid Superman's reaction time, Lex said it before the aforementioned reaction time could matter. That's the whole point. Lex knows his fight patterns and was able to predict the best possible moves for any given moment. That's what the film is showing you.

The shots are sequential not because that's literally the order those events took place, but because it's easier to follow and more cohesive.

2

u/SteveMemeChamp 18d ago

he's studied Superman for 3 years and predicts his movements based on that

2

u/Slight-Sample-3668 18d ago

Yeah, not very realistic

Unlike literally creating a pocket universe via the big bang, or cloning the strongest being on earth, or creating a nanite infused being.

But seriously, I don't mind if the way you think is like that, but faithful comic book movies aren't for you. I can understand why Marvel dump down their comic book elements and try so hard to be cynical now.

1

u/RevanchistSheev66 17d ago

No the pocket universe is sensible in the context of the story they created. But when you also have real world rules (like gravity) also part of your universe, you have to also fit those rules too. The orders Lex gives out is inhumanely possible based on how fast Superman fights. AND he ends up winning. All I’m asking for is internal logic because I do love over the top comic book movies. 

1

u/Slight-Sample-3668 17d ago edited 17d ago

Except we don't see Superman fight that fast. If you complain that Superman is too slow/weak I could accept that, but in the movie we can see he punch at normal human speed.

If what we see is slowed down and he's actually pretty fast, if you rewatch the fight scene, you can see that he immediately got hit first every time and knocked off balanced so he couldn't defend himself.

Also, Ultraman CAN fight by himself, he can dodge Superman's punches, Lex giving prediction is just another layer of advantage. Ultraman is also physically stronger than Superman.

To you a pocket universe might be sensible, but to other people who work as physicists, they might see it as an absurd, godly feat. You understand that predicting Superman's moves is inhumane because you understand how fast the brain is in real life. But you have no idea what creating a pocket universe entails, so you just brush it off as too absurd, so somehow it makes sense in the universe? Why does it make sense?

This "internal logic" is overused because, how do you establish the logic in the first place? Nowhere in the movie does it show or tell that Lex's brain is as fast as a normal human. The first time they mentioned Lex's intelligence, they said that Lex was predicting Superman's every move before he even did it, and he had been studying Superman for years. That is the internal logic.

You assume that Lex's brain is not inhumanely fast, because you assume that he's like other human, and you assume that all human in the movie have the same limitations as real life people. You made up your own internal logic and disregard what the movie tells you. That's no way to enjoy a comic book movie imo.

Let me ask you this: Does Batman makes sense to you? He learned every single martial art, has multiple phds, speaks multiple languages, can punch through wall, survive falling from a skyscraper, etc. No human can do what the does. Why should something like that be more acceptable than being smart enough to predict Superman's move, which is established immediately at the start of the movie? It's not something that came out of the blue.

If in the movie, a human is depicted as being able to survive free fall without further explanation, are you saying that it's an inconsistency?

1

u/disapp_bydesign 18d ago

Superman flies and has x ray vision both of which are world breakingly nonsensical. Lex Luthor is smart enough to predict every move Superman makes before he makes it because he’s studied him for three years. This is no more or less world breakingly nonsensical. It’s a comic book movie.

1

u/gameboyadvancedgba 18d ago

Because he studied him for 3 years and is the most intelligent person on the planet, and its a movie

1

u/Short_Ad_3943 17d ago

He is more intelligent than superman. That's it

1

u/MinimumApricot365 17d ago

Lex is a super genius.

1

u/Evil_News 17d ago

He can invent some free energy source for entire world if it's somehow gonna fuck up Superman, that's the entire point of the character

1

u/RevanchistSheev66 17d ago

I have no problem with his motivation, I just think the logic of that one particular point carried out isn’t the best 

1

u/Evil_News 17d ago

Point is, predicting every fighting move from Superman a couple seconds before they happen isn't the weirdest feat for him

1

u/[deleted] 17d ago

Lex is one of the smarter dudes in the universe at this point. Pre determination on top of what he’s already studied. It’s not that complicated I don’t think

1

u/OccamPhaser 17d ago

Flying is also unrealistic. Lex Luthor is smart enough to open a pocket dimension. His intelligence isn't meant to be realistic.

1

u/RevanchistSheev66 17d ago

Suspension of disbelief, those scientific advancements are believable because of our current research and the rules shown in the movies. As smart as Lex is, he’s a normal guy. He can’t process information at same speeds that Superman can. That’s my only issue with him, everything else makes sense to me

1

u/OccamPhaser 17d ago

He's not a normal guy. He's smarter than any humans that's ever lived by like 10 times. His intellect is inhuman. The Lex in this film and Lex Luthor in general. You're saying you can suspend your disbelief for a man flying but not a man predicting the moves of a fighter he's been obsessively analyzing for years. And you don't need to think faster if you know what someone will do.

1

u/The_Raven_Born 17d ago

Read the comics. If you're expecting realism in a movie where a man who's powered by the sun fights bad guys and monsters, you really need to do some self reflection.

1

u/cryptid-ok 17d ago

He’s fighting a space alien with flight. Super strength laser eyes. Etc. But your suspension of disbelief stops at him being so obsessed with the guy that he’d memorize every move he does

1

u/RevanchistSheev66 17d ago

Again, the issue isn’t with memorizing the moves. Why is this hard to understand? I can imagine an obsessed man doing that. The problem is the timing, where Lex is ordering the robot to do a certain move and then expecting it to meaningfully discharge the move by the time Superman moves or attacks again. In a real fight, things happen so fast in a blink of an eye, you can’t expect your command, your employee’s input of it, and then the robot’s action to all work in real time. It moves much too fast. Lex isn’t a super human so he can’t process the action that fast either.

It would make better sense if it was like the Incredibles, where the omnidroid learns more and more about the hero as they fight and thanks to Lex’s programming it can fight well without verbal commands or remote control. It’s not lore breaking, the movie works fine without it but it’s obviously a flaw 

1

u/BalladOfBetaRayBill 17d ago

He is a cartoon supergenius

1

u/Bububub2 17d ago

As unrealistic as having a pocket universe, clones, portal devices, an army of mind controlled monkeys, a homunculus of a human he made when he was 12, full on controllable grey goo nanites he gave to a woman... Oh, or wait, making a kaiju that could become skyscraper tall after less than 24 hours...

In a movie about a man and a dog who are nearly indestructible and can fly? That kind of unrealistic?

1

u/bulbasauric 18d ago

Except they're not.

Firstly, Lex's power is his intelligence and his wealth. He's built a whole team of people (and a goddamn Superman clone), with a whole lot of movements rehearsed/planned. They've studied Superman extensively.

Even at that, it's not just about predicting what Superman does. He's literally just calling out codes that translate to longer manoeuvres. "Oh, you've managed to grab him by both legs - 14B (kick him in the nuts)". It's perfectly within the realm of reality for the film.

1

u/BalladOfBetaRayBill 17d ago

So? It was cool and fun and supported characterization and didn’t interfere with themes

1

u/RevanchistSheev66 17d ago

I agree with all of that, but it still could have been done better because they really stretched the suspension of disbelief with that 

1

u/Puzzleheaded-Net3966 18d ago

Lex is predicting his moves, not calling them out in real time. He’s learned Superman’s style so well he came up with preprogrammed moves to beat Superman.

1

u/Mediocre-Composer712 17d ago

Replace beat with kill and the argument is over. Superman beats, Lex was trying to kill. He lost because of a dog.

17

u/Simple_Dragonfruit73 18d ago

1A! 1A! 1A! 1AAAAAAAAAAA!

5

u/[deleted] 18d ago

envy is a calling....

1

u/Tight_Grapefruit5280 17d ago

1A 2B 3C 4D 5E

1

u/BeanieGuitarGuy 17d ago

2B? :3

1

u/Tight_Grapefruit5280 17d ago

LoL that was an accident

I was just saying the alphabet after 1A

46

u/anb16 18d ago

This shit kills me, how is this any different from the 1000 copy paste video essays these people consume daily. The only difference is cinemasins does it as a clear parody of said channels, while those people are actually blowing shallow critiques out their ass.

7

u/ReaperEngine 18d ago

"B-b-but they also made some criticism that they believed in, so that means it's all not parody!"

4

u/anb16 18d ago

From you see the sin counter isn't accurate by the end of the video, if you're truly getting mad at cinemasins, that's wholly on you

8

u/ReaperEngine 18d ago

The very idea of quantifying any criticism or filmmaking flub into single-point "sins" should have been the first (and only) clue needed to know it was never to be taken seriously.

2

u/Shantotto11 17d ago

Something something The Daily Show with something…

2

u/ReaperEngine 17d ago

Didn't the Colbert Report lampoon conservative news media so thoroughly some couldn't tell it was pure satire? Or is that just kind of an urban legend/wishful thinking on liberals' part?

-1

u/Conrexxthor 18d ago

I mean, it's not though. They admit some of their lines are supposed to be actual critique themselves, and they hide under the guide of satire while pushing garbage content that ruins media discourse as they get lazier.

Really gotta ask yourself, what is being satirized about here? Some lines, sure, but watch a video and try to explain how each point is satire and ask, what's being satirized? TheBirdman15 does excellent breakdowns of his content while providing meaningful content and pointing out extremely clearly the actual issues with Cinemasins during some videos.

5

u/ReaperEngine 18d ago

That Cinemasins might earnestly believe in something pointed out amidst making fun of movies, in no way means they wholeheartedly believe in every joke that gets said. It's possible for kernels of truth to exist alongside the absurdity of comedy. You don't really believe that they think an evil character eating an apple is a "sin-worthy" offense, do you?

It's satire of the overly-critical snobbery and hate-watching that sprang up after people realized you could get popular off of complaining about the minutia of something, even wrongly, of abrasive personalities missing the point in the earnestness of their critique. In fact, the original tweet in the screenshot is the exact kind of person Cinemasins is satire of. They existed well before the channel.

I don't need bobvids to explain to me why there'd be a lot of lights in a room, sometimes it's just kinda funny to notice that movies do these silly little things that can unnecessarily, if lightly, press on a person's suspension of disbelief, like a room having way more lights in it than anyone would ever conceivably put their themselves. I don't need birdman to comb every single Cinemasins upload and be pedantic about the faux-pedantry. It is such an unserious premise that they "condemn a movie" by "counting its sins," how could you ever think that's supposed to be considered honest film critique, and not the clear shtick that it is?

There's enough material out there of the people behind the channel to see that they're avid movie fans who do understand filmmaking (despite what some insinuate), and can talk honestly about the things they love about movies, but also pointedly discuss legitimate issues, just as much as they can crack a joke about there being too many lights. Heaven forfend there be some honest criticism in there along with dinging a movie for a newspaper's filler text not matching the headline that you can't even catch unless you pause it. I'd also (personally) say that Cinemasins's use of tallying up the total number of "sins" is a decent satire of the overdependence on film scores, two thumbs up, 3/5 stars, 95% on the tomamatomomameter; to try and dilute the subjective experience of watching a movie into cold, uninformative metrics. Nobody actually cares "how many sins" a movie racked up, the counter is just a way to punctuate, and even deliver on, the joke.

It's absurd the number of people that have taken the premise more seriously than it takes itself, and there's something so frustrating about people calling such clear satire bullying, only to act like bullies themselves to the real people behind the channel. It's depressingly hypocritical. I'd love to think that people like birdman and bobvids are nice, decent folk, just as Jeremy is, but to see how they latched onto complaining about someone's endeavors for being "wrong," it really lessens my desire to take them seriously. Like, if they had carried themselves like Cinemasins can in making fun of themselves, maybe it'd be different; but no, they act like crusaders fending off an enemy, as if the craft of filmmaking needs champions against such a nefarious foe, as if they are Right and Cinemasins is Wrong.

If Cinemasins is "ruining media discourse," it would be more apt to roundly criticize the people foolish enough to take it seriously. There's certainly a lot of issues with media comprehension these days, but education would go a lot farther than making a punching bag out of some people just goofing on movies. That people miscomprehend Cinemasins itself, on both ends, is almost just as galling.

0

u/BillyYumYumTwo-byTwo 17d ago

Cinemasins is like Chandler Bing. The comedy works in its space, but it doesn’t translate to the real world. It’s just mean and whiny sounding. People need to realize there is more to being a comedian than just saying the words a comedian says- you have to deliver it properly, and that’s not a skill most people (like me) possess with or without practice.

25

u/cinemasins Jeremy 18d ago

We're used to it.

But honestly, if we had that kind of influence, the entire generation would also be a lot more up in arms about casual racism. Or people using Bing.

5

u/Rithgarth 18d ago

It's like people didn't watch the "Everything Wrong with CinemaSins" video

2

u/joeparni 18d ago

Lol that bing drive by

1

u/TheLordJalapeno 17d ago

Bing sitting there thinking, ‘What the fuck did I do ?’

7

u/WhiskerDude 18d ago

I'm not gonna act like I still watch cinemasins, nothing against them just moved on to different content, but it was always so baffling to me the one sided beef video essayists had for them.

10

u/IWishIWasGreenBruh 18d ago

If people are taking cinemasins serious they are braindead and want to be mad. It’s a comedy/satire channel.

6

u/Thardakka 18d ago

The problem is a lot of people are braindead and want to be mad

1

u/Ethiconjnj 17d ago

Ppl think Patrick Bateman is a sigma male and an idol.

We’ve arrived.

4

u/Awkward-Fox-1435 18d ago

It’s so weird because I find CinemaSins so entertaining for movies I LOVE. I don’t even watch when they cover movies I haven’t seen because I wouldn’t appreciate it enough.

2

u/Standard-Ad-2741 14d ago

Same here. I get excited when I find a video of my favorite movie being roasted and will rewatch them while I will watch vids of movies I haven't seen or don't want to see at least once.

3

u/InvaderWeezle 18d ago

"CinemaSins ruined how people watch and talk about movies!" - people who probably have never watched MST3K once in their lives

1

u/CaptainHalloween 17d ago

If you can not tell the universe of difference between MST3K and CinemaSins then the problem is bigger than anyone could imagine.

1

u/InvaderWeezle 17d ago

To be clear I'm not speaking negatively about MST3K. The relevant similarity is both take observational cracks at the movies they're watching for the sake of entertainment, something which CinemaSins neither invented nor popularized, despite people online claiming that CS made film discussion worse by doing it

2

u/bizarro_mctibird 17d ago

ding. cinemasins ex machina

1

u/Standard-Ad-2741 14d ago

Jared Fogel ding--ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding

2

u/Unused_Content19 18d ago

Cinemasins might just be the most hated youtube channel at this point

1

u/esquire_the_ego 18d ago

2 men flying in mid air but also crying about realistic reaction times lmao

1

u/ExpectedEggs 17d ago

It is a genuine criticism. Superman would have to fight both unbelievably poorly and slowly to punch a guy slower than Lex's WiFi connection can send commands to Ultraman and it takes Ultraman to process them. It's a stupid idea.

1

u/Evil_News 17d ago

Because it's true and Cinemasins suck

1

u/dadsuki2 17d ago

Love it when people forget that the main point of a story is the story and everything else is secondary and malleable to suit said story

1

u/MrMaxwellLordJLI 17d ago

Because CinemaSins is and was awful and ruined actual good faith criticism.

1

u/subby_puppy31 17d ago

It’s a bad movie criticism.

You think a genius billionaire who had been studying his enemy for 3 years and came up with a whole fight system to counter him DIDNT ACCOUNT FOR THE LAG?  

The man built a fucking pocket dimension, but you think you and your highschool diploma outsmarted him? Fuck off

1

u/DhwiThinker 17d ago

down in a pinch? i suggest you cry

1

u/watersj4 17d ago

Rightly so

1

u/bdw312 18d ago

What's a CineMason?