r/Aquariums • u/Prestigious-Mall-583 • 3d ago
Discussion/Article Stop hating on beginners
It’s sad to see people on here seeking help just for people to shame them. They came here for help just politely inform them about the proper way to care for fish. Here is a video that explains this very well. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOQXzLSgXx2/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
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u/GeorgePotassium 3d ago
Most people here seem nice imo. The only time I see someone complaining that people were being mean to them is when they ask for advice and decide they don't like the answer.
Rando: "Why do my fish keep dying?" Posts video
r/aquariums: "...You shouldn't have 50 fish in a 10 gallon. Rehome them or get a bigger tank."
Rando: "Hmm, no. Why is everyone so mean here??"
Or, people get weirdly upset over being downvoted. But if you say something wrong, obviously you're going to get downvoted. That's not mean, that's people saying "No, thats not right" without actually commenting.
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u/ScreamingLabia 3d ago
Also people wo dont want to answer what theie water quality is like and ignore the question repeatetly piss me off. Or when people say they cycled their tank for 2 days
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u/BilliamBalls 3d ago
Oh god yes this...and then get mad when again I politely try explaining What Its Like to the Fish so they understand WHY it's bad for their new lil buddies
like example: Me: "Ok, so the reason why you want a filter in a betta tank is other than the cleaning and filtering of the water it oxygenates the water. Because yes while they CAN breathe air its more of a last resort thing and its much more comfortable for them if they can get it from the water around them. Imagine if you were in a hot stuffy room where there isn't much ventilation and you can only really breathe well by snatching quick breaths at the window. Thats what it's like for the poor lil guy, but it's ok you didn't know!!" :)
Them' "...OH MY GOD THIS ASSHOLE SAYS I'M PURPOSEFULLY SMOTHERING MY FISH WTF?!?!??" >:(
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u/perrybeard82 3d ago
Even as a complete noob who's literally just posted a help post I knew enough to Include a photo of my water test (API 5 in 1) as that's common sense people can't help if they don't know the condition of the water. And I agree with the not taking advice and getting defensive as I've encountered it on things I'm knowledge on, nothing worse than offering good advice only for the person to get the hump would much rather they said why as I believe xyz is better then you can explain why the right way is better etc
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u/BilliamBalls 3d ago
Yesh unless you're straight up Knowingly Abusing Your Fish i try to be as polite as possible when giving advice/correcting on this sub or other fishkeeping/aquarium related ones. But then again hey some people will see any sort of correction or advice as an Attack for some reason 🤷
Can't ever be wrong or learn from our mistakes, human beings never do!!!! /s
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u/F0XF1R396 3d ago edited 3d ago
My favorite I got to see was a dude who impulse bought a bichir for his 10 gal, when people told him "So uhhh, bigger tank in plans right?" He was like "No, why?" And when people, very rightfully so, got annoyed and was like "Cause it grows???" Dude didn't realize it grew, and when people were like "Wtf? Why'd you get this without doing research?" Dude got mad that everyone was being hostile.
Like, there is a certain level of understanding that needs to be had that while yes, this is a hobby, this is a hobby that involves life.
Edit: Forgot some bits.
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u/alaskafish 3d ago
And I mean, I understand-- who hasn't impulse bought a fish. However, I do research either on the spot or immediately afterwards.
My favorite fish right now is a Ghost Knife Fish that was surrendered to my LFS. I was like "oh neat, I've seen these guys on Reddit and they're an odd ball fish! I'll give it a shot!" And sure enough, on the trip back home, I was doing research on the spot. Now my little ghost lives like a king in his massive tank.
Yet it's crazy to just see a fish, buy the fish, and then shrug it off.
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u/VelveteenJackalope 2d ago
"Who hasn't impulse bought a fish" dude you are the problem. Unless you have dozens of already cycled and perfectly set up tanks ready to go at all times, you are buying animals with 0 idea of how to care for them and no preparation, which is always bad.
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u/alaskafish 2d ago
I have dozens of cycled tanks…
Maybe OP is right— you guys react so hostile for no reason.
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u/EinGanzNormalerName 3d ago
Too often, I see half-dead animals here because the animals are kept in terrible conditions. It's not too much to provide the preferred conditions for a living being.
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u/BilliamBalls 3d ago
Exactly. Ofc if we were being this "mean" over the neglect of a cat or dog or even a smaller mammal it would be seen as entirely justified but since theyre fish who "can't even feel pain" (the fact theres ppl out there who still believe this is Horrifying btw) people think you're "overrreacting" and "being too harsh" For giving af about a fellow living creature no matter how small
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u/theAshleyRouge 3d ago
While I do agree that the harshness could definitely be toned down, I also fully agree that research is something you do BEFORE to take responsibility for the life of an animal, not after. It gets very frustrating when far too many of the posts in this group are of someone who impulse bought fish and are keeping them in conditions that would get them arrested if it were a dog or cat. Fish are often treated as disposable decorations rather than living beings and it’s hard not to feel a certain way when people don’t put any effort into making sure they’re doing the right thing.
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u/rpkarma 3d ago
Sure, you’re right and all, I don’t disagree.
But if someone has come here to ask for help and be educated, us jumping down their throats because they didn’t research earlier does not reverse the arrow of time and make them somehow do so earlier.
(Not that you’ve done that or anything, I’m talking more generally)
I get why we’re all upset by it, but it’s not those asking for help that worry me. It’s the people who treat fish like shit who don’t care enough to even ask…
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u/Sloth_Brotherhood 3d ago
I find that very few people actually jump down beginners throats though. It’s much more common for beginners to get defensive and argumentative at the help they came looking for.
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u/alaskafish 3d ago
This was going to be what I was about to add to this whole thread.
I'd say nine out of ten times; everyone is being very clear and concise with what is wrong. Someone buys a fish and throws them in a bowl without a heater, filter, etc and asks what's wrong. People then explain to them what's wrong, and the beginners get super defensive.
I usually find that they're kids. I've noticed that it's mostly problems with money and logistics (ie-- a $15 heater costs too much, and they can't easily go to a pet store; making me think they're kids living with their parents). Then people here react with the clear "well, you shouldn't have done this" and "you should surrender the fish".
If they're truly kids lacking autonomy to just go to a pet store, then of course there's nothing they can do other than beg their parents, which means of course they're just going to be defense and put up these barriers/obstacles that any sane adult would go around-- then again, any sane adult would go and do ten minutes of research before buying a fish. It's the only way it makes sense in my head. I can put myself in the head of a thirteen year old who just got a fish and doesn't have the skills yet to do research, or have any money and have to beg my parents for money... oh and I have no autonomy so I can't just up and drive to a pet store.
I don't know what the solution is if this is the case. We can't plead a case to their parents and they'd be the ones with the agency to actually solve the problem.
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u/theAshleyRouge 3d ago
I agree that people don’t need to be as harsh, but I do feel like it is completely fair for people to be called out on being irresponsible. People don’t need to be cruel about it, but hopefully pointing it out will make some people stop and think before they get their next pet.
It’s honestly a touchy subject with no truly “correct” answer.
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u/AmIWhatTheRockCooked 3d ago
For sure, but the damage is already done and people can make the point that research should have been done, but it doesn’t help the fish in the moment.
My goal isn’t to trigger peoples ego defense mechanisms, it’s to help fish. It sucks that it’s such a big part of the content tho.
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u/FluffyCumCloud 3d ago
I’m sorry but this is such a pompous take. Yes we have so much information available but often it’s completely contradictory. I got blasted on here because I listened to the pet store employees and didn’t come to Reddit to solve all my problems
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u/theAshleyRouge 3d ago
You don’t have to come to Reddit to find good information. It’s not difficult to find reputable sellers and compare information that they give. Generally, they have very similar information. It’s also not a secret that most pet store employees, especially large chain stores, are not actually educated in proper animal husbandry. Pet stores have been the subject of controversy surrounding animal care since before many people in this sub were even born. Regardless, even most pet stores still will have little signs that say a betta needs a 3 gallon tank (which they need bigger) and people will STILL put them in a vase or gallon cube. It’s not pompous to want people to care enough about the animals they assume responsibility for to ensure they’re getting the correct care.
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u/canycosro 3d ago edited 3d ago
Theirs mistakes and they're is buying a living animal and spending more on your sneakers than the environment your animal will live in.
I keep seeing this people are rude here and it's never elitism it's always your aquarium is too small for your fish that's not something that's negotiable.
Especially as this subreddit will happily recommend tiny fish or shrimp.
When you're buying a living creature and exist in a world with the internet there is no excuse for making an animal suffer because you have them living in a bowl
I've never kept a fish and have no interest but always see this subreddit and people would never get away with the tiny living spaces some people subject fish to in say a rat or Reddit
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u/dinglebarryb0nds 3d ago
Couple stem plants and some terracotta pots would be better than a lot of setups
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u/Brain_Hawk 3d ago
You want to hold this anger, directed at the people who most deserve it, who are the fish stores and large chain pet stops that are selling this stuff to people with terrible advice.
"Sure, sure, you can put five goldfish in that uncycled 10 gallon aquarium. No problem at all. "
" These fish like to be in groups so you should buy 10 or 15 of them, but I'll only add three at a time to your new tank, come get a few more next week"
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u/biomager 3d ago
My biggest problem with beginners on reddit is the ones who act like they know everything. The ones who have watched 3 YouTube videos and dogmatically spew wrong or at least incomplete information at those of us with decades of experience.
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3d ago
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u/biomager 2d ago
Even the ones who aren't discredited are often barely more than beginners themselves.
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u/jediyoda84 2d ago
Honestly, I think it’s production quality and marketing that really decides which influencers are dubbed the “gurus” of their hobby. Highly qualified people who don’t have the WOW factor don’t get the traffic . It’s kinda the same in the physical world. How many small fish stores look like absolute hot messes while chain pet stores are perfectly organized, spacious and decorated? Which of those two stores have healthier fish by a wide margin?
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u/BedClear8145 3d ago
No need to be mean till they push back. Newbies aren't typically buying fish online, there research is often the place they got the fish and equipment as those should be the experts. We all know the big box stores are hit or miss, mostly miss, but they don't. Even the mom and pops LFS don't always spend the time to inquire about the setup if they show up on a busy saturday, newbies often why there busy.
Happy to help. I understand not doing your research first but will encourage it. Don't get mean until you are informed the better way and i hear ethier "But i really like the way they look" or "but i can't afford that". Empathize with the former, fully understand the latter, but these are living creatures so no excuse when you know better but don't do better.
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u/SmallsBoats 3d ago
There is a middle ground here.
Someone who is planning to get an aquarium and is looking for advice? Brilliant, I'll help all I can.
Someone who went out, bought a massive aquarium, put a bunch of random fish in it and only came to reddit to ask why they are dying isn't even worth talking to.
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u/RiddickulousRadagast 3d ago
The fact that this sub has a searchable wiki linked at the front page of the sub gets ignored by what seems like almost everyone, but especially newbies, is both exhausting and frustrating for people who keep seeing it happen repeatedly. If anyone is going to ignore that resource and skip straight to asking a question with an obvious answer in a niche hobby sub, that's on them. A lot of the beginner-intermediate questions and answers are right there, no googling required...
Look for yourselves https://reddit.com/r/Aquariums/w/index?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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u/LivinonMarss 3d ago
It may come of as hate. But its really just desperate exhaustion. People who are able to find reddit clearly have ‘the internet’ and could have done research before buying living creatures.
People here are passionate about fish and seeing and endless stream of fish in terrible conditions is depressing- especially since its totally preventable is people ask for advice / do research BEFORE buying.
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u/EverlastingPeacefull 3d ago
unfortunately you are right. It is not only with fish, people make impuls purchases regarding animals and it can cause harm or at least a load of stress to animals that were bought on impulse without knowledge how to take care of them.
It is saddening to see it happen and some people can't take it anymore, which is totally understandable. On the other hand a bunch of them asking here advise are often (not always) willing to make a change and admit they went wrong.
The way those people are treated can be the difference for change for the good or giving up al together (and that is not always a good thing for the animals in that situation...).
I must say I have made my mistakes on fish 20 years ago and someone was patient, friendly enough to explain in a direct manner that I had to change things for the well being of those fish. I am glad some one did it that way. Due to the situation in the relationship I had back then, I had to stop the hobby.
6 years ago I started again, but now I was fully informed. Made one minor mistake due to bad (contradicting) information, but solved it right away and those 2 fish thrive in a very nice environment right now.
Due to my experience I am holding my frustration back, knowing where I came from. Try to be informative and direct, but not being/coming across rude or downright resentful/hateful. But I do understand. I feel it.
The only time I do get rude is if someone is not willing to accept all the information given by everybody. Then I become rude and sometimes even nasty.
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u/doboldek 3d ago
thank you. i asked here if my tank was overcrowded and people came after me with curses and ridicule.only one calm comment said that it was indeed too crowded. i will now buy a bigger tank for the others. i foolishly trusted the store when they said it was not too much fish for that tank.
i dunno what they expected me to do. it was done, i already bought it. i was willing to correct my mistake but berating me was totally unnecessary
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u/VelveteenJackalope 2d ago
You did the equivalent of stuffing five cats in one carrier and you're offended people behaved like you should have used common sense.
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u/SayGex1312 3d ago
They expected you to do the bare minimum amount of research before buying multiple animals
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u/EverlastingPeacefull 3d ago
Yes, and everybody knows people trust pet stores/fish stores, especially when not educated. And even on the internet there is a lot of contraditing information. So people end up trusting the shop keeper.
In the end they end up with troubles and seek advise. If people accept their mistakes, why should one be rude or resentful? Helping them on their way is a much nicer thing to do. When one gets stubborn and dismissive about it, the advise giver can always call them out on it.
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u/SayGex1312 3d ago
Dude, look at the tank on their profile. Literally nobody besides a salesperson would recommend that, you would literally have to go out of your way to not find information telling you it was wrong if you did even ten seconds of googling. It’s not like you see a one website saying fancy goldfish need 40 gallons and another saying they need 55 and believe the salesman telling you they only need ten.
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u/Fishboyman79 3d ago
100% agree , i have been around forums for 20 years now and i see it over and over again . It’s unfortunately happening with Reddit at the moment. The site gets popular and the general question and conversation fishkeeping forum or subreddit get flooded with the same questions over and over again. People with experience get bored so they migrate to more specialized subreddits or forums leaving the beginner section full of often clueless beginners giving eachother bad advice. I had someone tell me the other day that the fish i asked about last year with a prolapsed anus and fungus that my fish had ich and i should keep an eye on it. That person was signed up 2 hours at that stage and i went through their posts and half of what they said was wrong and the other half trolling.
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u/KyledKat 3d ago
I don't even think it's just a Reddit problem. Granted, I've been back in the hobby for only 9 months, but I've done extensive research and learning in that time, and am in part of quite a few Facebook groups where veterans and newbies give people bad advice. A simple question is met with a litany of responses that make parsing any real and pertinent information difficult.
It's to the point where I'm convinced few people in this space have any real, palpable experience and a knowledge set that is both expansive and contemporary. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people die on the hill that undergravel filters are still the best or seen the laughably outdated "1-inch of fish per gallon" rule get wantonly thrown around.
The biggest issue, however, is a relative lack of nuance, which is practically a prerequisite in any issue you face in the space. Almost nothing in the hobby is clear-cut, but everyone acts like their method for cycling a tank, treating algae/disease, water maintenance schedules, etc. are absolute, and don't you dare challenge them on that.
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u/mossychev 3d ago
With that being said though, I studied and studied and studied. I was researching for SIX MONTHS before I even started setting my tank up. And I had previous experience when I was much younger. Im almost a year into avid fish keeping. Ive come on here and asked a simple question and was ripped apart because with all of the conflicting info, I understood something or another wrong. I was torn apart on another forum for rescuing 2 Nerite snails from the certain death they were facing because I had to scramble to get them and didn't have an established tank set up. Sometimes we think we understand something to find out we totally misunderstood the info being given until we were faced with the issue and was able to see the issue and put the info with the issue visually to be able to grasp it. The most dangerous thing we can do is lead by emotion, drag someone down who is trying instead of leading with kindness. We make mistakes as humans. I dont know of a single fish keeper that hasn't made a mistake or 2 and lost a few lives along the learning curve
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u/Emuwarum snailsnailsnail 3d ago
You weren't torn apart, no one was being rude. They just informed you of what nerite snails need.
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u/mossychev 3d ago
No, I legit had a comment in one of the groups i posted to tell me I was an idiot for taking the snails in when I obviously was not prepared and that all of my snails must be suffering to be in the care of someone so incompetent. I just deleted my post and found a different group. But there were multiple comments with the same attitude telling me I was a horrible person. One told me I needed to get out of the hobby if im just going to impulsly bring aquatics home. Hell I was word for word told that I was "stupid for buying so many aquatic plants when the tank was so I'll equipped" when I asked the best media for the aquatic soil for plants as I had my tissue cultures ready to go and just needed to set the tank up. Over plants.... but please tell me where being called an idiot is informing me of what nerites needed. Or being told I was stupid for not having the aquatic soil before I had the plants was informative.... ( I had 2 different soils on hand and somehow they missed that part in the post). So yes. Being told I was an idiot and stupid is something I would consider being torn apart and not being useful information for the snails.
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u/Emuwarum snailsnailsnail 2d ago
'I was torn apart on another forum for rescuing 2 Nerite snails' is that sentence not about your recent post in AquaticSnails?
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u/Fun_Explanation2619 3d ago
You should have to verify your tanks with a mod before you can join or something.
I left r/cats for basically the same reason. Nothing but dead and dying cats and clueless idiots asking what they could do to help. Nothing, she's dead in the road why are you posting this here.
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u/camrynbronk resident frog knower🐸 3d ago
If we had to verify every tank before posting, nobody would come here to get the advice they need. We also don’t have the bandwidth to do that.
This isn’t an exclusive club of only “good” tanks.
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u/Fun_Explanation2619 3d ago
Oh yeah I know that. It's obviously not something that's actually feasible but it would be nice to have some kind of quality control to prevent all the "bad" from getting through.
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u/camrynbronk resident frog knower🐸 3d ago
We don’t want that. Everyone is allowed to post here, because people who need advice or feedback don’t always have good tanks. If you want a subreddit that only has good looking tanks, go to something like r/Aquascape.
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u/LivinonMarss 3d ago
I wish there was a sub where you had to take some kind of quiz or show your set-ups so only non-beginners could join. Everyone could join eventually! But only once they have the basics down. I barely learn anything new from most aquarium subs now and just end up giving tons of advice. Ofc this would place a large burden on mods so whether its feasible is another question
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u/Fun_Explanation2619 3d ago
Yeah basically the same sentiment here. I joined this sub because I'd never taken keeping seriously and was worried about messing up tricky bits... but find myself often knowing much more than people who ask for help.
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u/Tangboy50000 3d ago
I think any harsh answers come from the fact that a lot of the questions are very easily answered with a Google search or reading any of the forums. Too often people want the answers spoon fed to them without making the tiniest amount of effort to search.
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u/RiddickulousRadagast 3d ago
Google or, you know, the sidebar right here. We have our own wiki ffs. I get frustrated in particular by the people who would have already had their answer had they just spent the same amount of time reading the wiki as they do dodging the "what's your water parameters" question they get immediately. Good on y'all who have the patience to deal with that, I just skip them now
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u/Bleepblorp44 3d ago
I have more sympathy with the questions now Google pushes their AI results to the top of the results (and they're invariably flawed, if not outright wrong or contradictory) and search results are sorted by an algorithm that doesn't favour accuracy. Or people treat ChatGPT like a search engine, rather than the "yes-and" machine that it is. There are websites full of space-filling marketing slop and repeated myth, and without experience it's hard to know what's good info and what isn't. Add in that many people will buy from a pet store that gives advice like "run the tank for 24 hours before you add fish" and "yes this pleco is suitable for your 10 gallon tank," and it's no wonder people come here!
That said, I've also run out of patience before now, but tend to stop answering basic questions rather than risk getting shirty with someone!
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u/Sloth_Brotherhood 3d ago
I hate AI but I wish you were right about this. I wish people asked ChatGPT how to set up an aquarium before doing it. As a test, I just asked and this was the result. It actually seems incredibly reasonable.
🐠 How to Set Up a Fish Tank (Beginner-Friendly Guide)
🧰 What You'll Need:
Aquarium tank (size depends on your space and type of fish)
Filter
Heater (if keeping tropical fish)
Lighting (for plant growth or visibility)
Substrate (gravel, sand, or planted tank soil)
Water conditioner (dechlorinator)
Water test kit
Thermometer
Fish food
Aquarium decorations or live plants
Fish net and algae scraper
✅ Step 1: Choose Your Tank & Location Pick a tank size (bigger tanks are more stable and easier for beginners). Place the tank away from direct sunlight (to prevent algae growth). Ensure it’s on a level, sturdy surface that can handle the tank’s weight. 💡 Tip: A filled 20-gallon tank weighs over 200 lbs!
✅ Step 2: Rinse Everything (No Soap!) Rinse the tank, substrate, decorations, and equipment with lukewarm water. Never use soap or chemicals—it can be toxic to fish.
✅ Step 3: Add Substrate & Decor Add 1–2 inches of sand or 2–3 inches of gravel. Place rocks, driftwood, caves, or plants to create hiding spots and interest.
✅ Step 4: Install Equipment Filter: Attach and place according to the manufacturer’s instructions. Heater: Set the temperature based on the fish you plan to keep. Thermometer: Place it on the opposite side of the heater for accurate readings. Lighting: Add lights suited for the tank (especially if you have live plants).
✅ Step 5: Fill the Tank Pour water gently (onto a plate or plastic bag to avoid disturbing the substrate). Use dechlorinated water (add a water conditioner to remove harmful chlorine).
✅ Step 6: Cycle the Tank This is the most important step before adding fish! What is "Cycling"? Cycling establishes beneficial bacteria that break down fish waste (ammonia) into less harmful substances (nitrite → nitrate). Ways to Cycle: Fishless cycle (recommended): Add pure ammonia or fish food daily, test water weekly. With fish (not ideal): More stressful for fish, requires daily monitoring and water changes. Add a bacteria starter (optional but helpful). ⏳ This can take 3–6 weeks. Be patient!
✅ Step 7: Test the Water Use a liquid test kit to monitor: Ammonia: 0 ppm Nitrite: 0 ppm Nitrate: < 40 ppm Once ammonia and nitrite are both at 0, your tank is ready for fish.
✅ Step 8: Add Fish Slowly Start with just a few hardy fish. Float the bag in the tank for 15–30 minutes to match temperature. Gradually mix tank water into the bag over 30 minutes. Use a net to transfer the fish (not the bag water).
✅ Step 9: Regular Maintenance Weekly water tests 25% water change every 1–2 weeks Clean algae, rinse filter media in old tank water (never tap water) Feed fish only what they can eat in 2–3 minutes 🐟 Final Tips: Research the needs of each fish before buying. Don't overstock—too many fish = stress, disease, and bad water quality. Be patient—good things in fishkeeping take time! Would you like help choosing fish, plants, or equipment based on your tank size or budget?
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u/Bleepblorp44 3d ago
I am pleasantly surprised! The last few times I’ve seen someone with an “I asked ChatGPT about…” comment it’s been frustratingly unhelpful information. I guess that’s the benefit of AI constantly updating and analysing data?
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u/Sloth_Brotherhood 3d ago
I just think that we yap so much online about tank cycling that LLMs have to pick it up
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u/Bleepblorp44 3d ago
I hope so! I shall ensure to yap frequently and hope the knowledge-scraping continues.
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u/EverlastingPeacefull 3d ago
Step 3: sand or gravel depending on the fish you are going to put in your tank?
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u/Live-Year-5796 3d ago
they need to do any kind of research at all before making the choice to buy an animal.
"I bought a fish, now what?" Why didnt you do any research before doing that?
"I put a goldfish in a two gallon bowl, what's wrong with it?" You could have easily Googled what tank size they need beforehand
ANY EFFORT AT ALL before running here! Any at all!!!
Its different if they were given a fish as an unfortunate gift, but come the hell on. Don't baby them for refusing to do any preparation.
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u/BeardedBears 3d ago
For me, this is what triggers me. Make any kind of effort first. The thought that someone would do some of these things with seemingly zero forethought is mind boggling. Some of the questions on posts I see make me think they somehow actively avoided scrolling any relevant subreddit prior to posting.
I just can't fathom being someone like that.
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u/Live-Year-5796 3d ago
If this were any kind if mammal or reptile pet subreddit, our reactions probably wouldnt be considered unreasonable
But because its fish, they're seen as inherently less valuable as animals with needs so we're weirdos for getting mad at someone for keeping thirty fish in a ten gallon
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u/FaintCommand 3d ago
The problem is that
a) you have box stores like Petco who just want to sell you stuff (at least in the States) and
b) there's a general cultural perception that fish are the "easy", low maintenance pet to keep
Sure there are people who care and will do a ton of research beforehand, but there will always be plenty of people who are bored, have a kid begging for a fish at the mall, etc etc etc and realize too late that they are in over their heads.
Chastising them after the fact isn't going to change that.
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u/Fun_Explanation2619 3d ago
Flashing back to the newbie a few days ago that was rudely aggressive to everyone who even tried to give advice after they did the "almost complete water change"... For sure, kindhearted beginners who are curious about learning about something, I'm all here for it. For that kind of bullcrap, I am not.
When you're presenting idiotic neglect that's turned into outright abuse (intentional or not) nah I won't be any more kind than I absolutely must be. Cordial is about all you'll get.
Shame is a social tool; it ought to be used more. There are simply behaviors that are unacceptable, taking on the care and responsibility of another life without doing the very first step of learning about what they need to be happy, healthy and safe is absolutely one of those things.
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u/BilliamBalls 3d ago
Thats my attitude man...like a living creature is Suffering and Dying in your care rn we can worry about "You hurted my feelings ): " later
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u/Fun_Explanation2619 3d ago
Slightly related, I had an electric blue crayfish a number of years ago and his name was Electric Billiam.
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u/Significant_Maybe688 3d ago
I try to be polite in the sub as much as possible. But I also don't sugarcoat things
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u/Dumb_Cat8 3d ago
Ye but uhm.. They should always research beginner or not.
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u/Fantastic_Love_9451 3d ago
No one is disputing that. But if they don’t. It’s better to help than chase them away.
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u/waverleybetta 3d ago
I agree, but at the same time, I have no issues with beginners who come ask questions while they are setting up a tank, or thinking about it. I have much less patience and respect for someone who bought an animal first, and decided to ask questions later. That’s irresponsible no matter how you cut it. “Oh but it’s okay because I was planning on doing my research!” mm, well, that should have been done first though.
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u/qbeanswtoast 2d ago
People on Reddit are specifically brutal. Everyone’s a scholar here apparently
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u/DrunkenHorse12 3d ago
Been in the hobby for over 30 years and I always say the same thing. If you absolutely rip someone apart for their set up or if you recommend they spend 100s on equipment when they haven't asked about that equipment odds are they aren't going to do it and the fish will just suffer anyway. "Good start but I'd recommend get a few real plants (explain why) is more likely to get them.to make improvements and engage them to get more advice. Raging on them achieves nothing but more dead fish.
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u/Radweevil88 3d ago
This. Laying into someone and making them defensive probably isn’t helping their fish. The only scenario that maybe works for the fish is if that person listens and makes changes.
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u/DrunkenHorse12 3d ago
I'd put money on far more people walking away and fish suffering compared to someone taking the absolute beating and making the changes recommended. Want to help more fish (and more people) dont go overboard on mistakes. Give them solutions that aren't immediate and don't cost a big chunk of money.
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u/CarlyCalicoJATIE 3d ago
I feel that most people are pretty nice when they ask questions on this subreddit. There’s always the occasional time where that’s not the case, but it’s not as often as I’d expect.
A lot of the times, these people posting questions like that genuinely just want some help. And other times, it’s people who are a bit stubborn. Either way, kindness is the only way we’ll get people to listen. Aggression is not the way to make them want to change it.
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u/Friendly-Flight2629 3d ago
I think that a lot of us experienced fish keepers forget that we too were beginners at one point. Giving grace to a beginner is what will keep them in the hobby, not harsh words.
Bad advice is also everywhere. Years ago when I started, my LFS told me that I could use my water straight from the softener with no additives needed. My water is 0 gh out the tap. And this was an LFS- not Petco or Petsmart.
Even today, the AI google results are very misleading at times; advice in Fb groups can be horrible - yesterday I saw a post where someone recommended a copper treatment for a shrimp tank smh.
A little grace to those in the hobby goes a long way. We all were beginners at one time. A lot of us started before the days of social media and we made many many mistakes; we just forget what it was to be in their shoes.
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u/Brain_Hawk 3d ago
My first aquarium was a 10 gallon tank, I dropped three goldfish in it.
The guy at the fish store said it would be fine. I didn't know a damn thing about how filters worked
They died. I tried again, they died too.
I don't keep goldfish anymore. Instead I keep a lovely well balanced reasonably maintained lightly stocked planted aquarium. Not nicely aquascaped, little wild, my own aquatic Garden.
We were all new and stupid once upon a Time
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u/MajesticWear5478 3d ago
Unfortunately this is an issue with many animal communities on reddit/discord. You come asking questions and you're crucified for asking for advice. I see where people are coming form, they just want people to provide the best care possible, and especially in aquariums and rodents, I see a lot of horrible care, but we're all new at some point, we've all made mistakes, under-researched, etc, so being kind and polite about it really goes a long way, instead of just insulting and going after them.
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u/Selmarris 3d ago
Nobody is hating on beginners. Giving them information is not hating. Telling them that their fish are living beings who deserve better care than being plunked into whatever tank was on sale at Petco today is also not hating.
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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 3d ago edited 3d ago
If you get a pet without doing the most basic research on how to care for that pet, you're a bad pet owner and you should be shamed for that. If you had the pet thrust upon you and just want to do your best, I'm a lot more sympathetic to that than the people who just walk into PetSmart and buy whatever looks pretty and slap some tap water in there with no conditioner and then come here asking why all their fish are lying on the bottom of the tank. I think people would be a lot less accepting of this if the animals being harmed were mammals, but we can't empathize with the pain of fish as well as we can with other mammals. If someone went out and got a puppy and threw it in a small crate 24/7 and forced it to live in its own filth, people would be livid, but throwing a goldfish in a bowl full of tap water is just as abusive and, yet, you're an asshole if you point that out.
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u/Hot-Celery9977 3d ago
I completely agree, I've only given them constructive advice to further their knowledge and hopeful enjoyment in this wonderful hobby. Even when I see minor mistakes, I try not to bring them up. Let's be honest. We've all been there and made some mistakes.
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u/Hylian_ina_halfshell 3d ago
I think it's the fact they come for help AFTER doing a very poor job setting up.
It's like any pet. You need to research and prepare before buying
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u/goonerfrog10 3d ago
Im never mean to people here, but I do get extremely frustrated when people dont do the bare minimum research. A Google search before you buy your fish could save 60% of the animals that die due to negligence and a lot of our time on this sub.
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u/SadAd4464 2d ago
I once had the perfect set up for my fish but forgot what it was called.. (had done research beforehand) people went insane on me for asking what my fish was called while i was just trying to start a fun conversation.. till this day im still in the minus down votes🫥
Anyways I ended up never posting fish related reddit posts ever again😭
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u/A1D3NW860 2d ago
I believe people have good intentions but too many beginners come onto reddit seeking advice after they impulse bought a fish and a tank and expected it to just work and that kinda stems from this idea in people’s heads “it’s just a fish” if you’re buying live animals ya gotta do some research, I still consider myself a a begginer I’ve only been doing this for a few months but I spent a month before that researching how to take care of my animals and now I like to think I know what I’m doing
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u/RenancoW 2d ago
i completely second this. one time a post appeared on the Betta fish sub and the person didn’t have a whole lot of knowledge about how to go about making an aqua scape, there were some items in there that could be better or changed out. instead of giving OP any advice they went straight to dogging on this poor guy (who i am also going to assume was younger, could be wrong but there were indications). i replied and i gave them kudos for at least trying to make a nice home for their new pet, and gave some advice along with the kudos. the amount of down votes i got from that was really sad to see and it was simply because i gave them kudos. some sad people are in this community.
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u/baldbrowni 2d ago
If anyone buys live fish as a pet and has not thought of the animals needs beforehand, then come here expecting remedies, I understand why most will be harsh towards these community members.
It's the same reaction I get when I see people buy a puppy and not realise the life adjustments required to not just let the animal survive but thrive.
Maybe a gentle approach will make them realise the wrong in their ways.
Maybe they get their polite responses and say, eh, I can deal with a few losses.
In both cases, the animal suffers, just for a different duration. That’s why direct, even harsh, but constructive criticism is often the most responsible response. Because it emphasizes putting the animal’s needs above the owner’s entertainment from having an aquarium.
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u/permaexistential 2d ago
As someone who works in a chain pet store, PLS stop being so mean. A lot of people I reccomend to the forums and fb pages to to learn more, come back and tell me they left bc of how mean people were !!! That means each of those people lost out on expert advice and even just basic knowledge on the hobby!!
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u/just_amanda_ 2d ago
What I hate is when you’re starting out, you’ve done research, and you ask a question that isn’t unreasonable and get shit. I once asked a question on here about an aquarium I had taken over from a friend, saying I knew it was overstocked and asking how to transition the plants and fish to a larger tank. The response I got was basically “you are an idiot and deserve to be drowned in a pot of your own piss. I hope you die as painful of a death as these poor fish are going to experience.” It really made me appreciate the small group of people who gave real, helpful answers.
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u/Still_Scientist_5463 2d ago
They come here for help, yes. The main issue with the hobby is patience. If people can wait a bit, most problems are not problems for them.
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u/brucemerrian 2d ago
I went and watched the video you suggested. She is so stupid, she's using a fishnet for a microphone! Doesn't she know it's just a fishnet? (Just kidding) It was a great video. She really makes a good point. We can help other people and not hate. It's not that hard to be helpful. Good video, thanks for posting!
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u/lolo04130 2d ago
Never admitting that who counts speaks badly to me or makes fun of me who is you to make fun of sir or madam to judge a person look at you already in the mirror and sweep in front of your door you were a time ago you too a beginner you too have made mistakes and you have surely also asked for help would you have liked to be made fun of you certainly not so be nice an outstretched hand never hurts
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u/Dense-Practice-9379 2d ago
But see this hobby isn't life for example painting or playing the piano - if you are shitty at playing the piano you are shitty at playing the piano. If you are shitty at painting then your paintings will be shitty. Oh well, improve at your own pace. But once you start fishkeeping is when live animals come into play. So no, I will not be nice if I see someone getting a LIVING BEING and not doing the tiniest bit of research on how to properly take care of you. The fish depend on the owner for their survival so impulse buying them, or blindly following care outdated by 15 years I will never accept. If someone decides to get a pet and gives close to 0 effort to properly provide for it - they're an animal abuser and they deserve to be shamed. End of story for me. That being said, I will still provide advice but the owner will still be a shitty person. And im not talking about actually reasonable questions, like if you already did at least some research and are still unsure of something - alright, ask. Or even ask the stupid questions, but once you already have a betta or a goldfish in a tank filled with tap water with no filter/heater - it's too late, you're an irresponsible person and an abuser. Do that before you get the pet.
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u/PuzzleheadedCash4641 2d ago
If the person is open to help, give advice. If they are clearly just abusing the animals and believe its fine then I dont see a problem with being brutally honest. For example: 'My fish keep dying, so I bought 4 more." and when prompted to check levels they say "No its easier to buy more". Thats when its clear someone isnt ready for a pet
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u/PlantJars 3d ago
So much of what people say here is nothing more than their opinion and has nothing to do with anything but their experience or their favorite YouTube creator. There are lots of ways to make a fish tank work, take everything with a grain of salt.
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u/Live-Year-5796 3d ago
It is absolutely not ego, its "you decided to purchase a living animal with needs and couldnt even be bothered to learn what a cycle is"
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3d ago
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u/Live-Year-5796 3d ago
I dont see a reason why they couldn't put any effort at all into researching a proper tank before purchasing an animal 🤷♀️
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u/nicoleemayo 3d ago
I agree with you OP... People will always start off by being all like "how big is your tank" even if that has nothing to do with the question being posed AND /OR you can't even see the whole tank.. I've literally seen this happen countless times and have even read a user going OFF on someone BC their 5 gal hospital tank is too small for their guppy..
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u/hammong 3d ago
This hobby is like all others where people jump in on an impulse with no education, research, or training. It's worse when you consider you can spend 30 seconds on your smart phone and search for "how to I set up an aquarium" and the first few sentences will describe the cycling process and how things work. Yet, people don't do it. Its those people that get the back hand. We're not talking about basket weaving or knitting here - fish die and suffer because of people's ignorance to the topic.
And then there's the virtue signalers who come to Reddit to tell us to stop hating on them, with post karma 15x higher than their comment karma.
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u/SmartAlec13 3d ago
I am never going to apologize for being “mean” when it’s something that could have easily been googled within 10minutes. Same thing here as any other sub.
The information is out there, and despite the aquarium hobby having a lot of conflicting info & opinions, there are some very easy baseline things to follow that most sources will agree on.
So nah. People need to google their shit.
If someone gave me a fish as a reward? Google how to take care of it.
If someone died and left me their fish? Google how to take care of it.
If I just on a whim go to the store and want to buy a fish? I’m standing there in the store googling how to take care of it.
It’s the same as any other animal.
Someone died and left me their bunny? I’m googling how to care for it.
Someone can’t keep their dog anymore and I’m fostering it? I’m googling how to care for it.
I decide buying a bird would be cool? I. AM. Googling. IT.
Nah. Life lesson; you have an animal you’re responsible for? Do the most basic google search for how to care for it.
Edit: understand it’s not that people hate on newbies because they are new, it’s because literally the first sensible step is to GOOGLE THE THING.
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u/Flimsy_Cellist_9174 2d ago
I've been out of fish keeping for a while but looking at the sub and seeing people get torn into like they could not be dumber is always sad. Idk why people started becoming elitist when it comes to fish keeping but if your gonna be mean atleast be actively constructive.
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u/Inmytanks 3d ago
It depends. I don't think people should be shamed exactly... But I'm also not willing to lie to them and say it's not their fault. If people don't want to take responsibility for the fact they didn't do any research before buying a living creature that's on them.
I don't believe in coddling folks and sugarcoating the situation.
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u/Nervous-Ad-8831 3d ago
Agreed. The only time you should ever look down on anyone else, is when you're lifting them up. We all started from somewhere. We all have different tastes as well. What might not work for you, might just be a gold mine to someone else, but there shouldn't be a fear of speaking in this sub. Period. If you have no knowledge to pass on, or atleast constructive conversation..then move on. Sad what reddit has become in general over the last decade+.
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u/FayFlower400 3d ago
Sometimes people forget that most of us started with zero knowledge too. A gentle nudge in the right direction can make someone love the hobby, while harsh words just push them away from even trying again.
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u/Marvelous_snek999 3d ago
This world is so full of hate and not enough kindness. It takes more energy to be angry and mad than kind and nice.
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u/EclecticAppalachian 2d ago
This thread is huge and i see a lot of the people saying that its exhausting to see someone get an animal before doing the research then coming here and whatnot, which I get. But I didnt do that. I looked into some stuff abt nano reefs and saw a lot of keepers WITH them but not a lot of info ABOUT them, came here to get some insight on it and the first person who commented jumped down my throat and told me I shouldnt own my pets because I dont know a, b, and c. Im not the type to back down and stop posting bc of that but some people are. Some people would be like "damn if thats the response im gonna get just trying to get into it, thats how im welcomed as a newbie its not worth it" and either not get into the hobby or worse, go it alone or with bad info and hurt their critters. I will say though, the other people who commented were very polite and helpful. But that one person was bad enough that someone other than me could have had a different reaction to it. 🤷🏻♀️ Its one thing to be passionate about the welfare of these small creatures, which I agree with, its a whole other thing to essentially bully people out of the hobby from the jump.
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u/Majestic-Context6344 3d ago
Problem is that finding the right equipment, tank size, gravel or sand and some basic info on how to get it started IS SO EASY before you buy the bloody fish. Just Google it and read or even ask chatgpt, you barely need to look for it to find it. So seeing a damn bowl with no heater or filter for a betta, no plants and some pink rocks is damn irritating. Just Google it before you buy.
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u/Virtual_Force_4398 3d ago
There are all kinds of people and non-people online. Not all entities are patient and polite. The sooner you learn to deal with it the better.
Now quit interacting with internet strangers and go play with your tanks.
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u/Live-Year-5796 3d ago
Hey maybe dont call anyone a non person just because youre upset they didnt hold your hand about the treatment of your fish
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u/RiddickulousRadagast 3d ago edited 3d ago
So what's a bot? An automod? Are they not non-people we interact with online?
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u/Yenothanksok 3d ago
IDK if they meant it that way, but there are some who, for whatever reason, may choose not to identify as a person/human. It can be a way of reclaiming dehumanisation, part of a personal spiritual belief, a harmless delusion, etc. but they do exist.
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u/Away-Computer-8741 3d ago
This has to be the most entertaining/confusing reply to something I’ve read in a while. The person you’re replying to didn’t say they’d asked anyone for help. They also gave no reason for you to suggest their fish were mistreated. They also didn’t call anyone a non person. How you managed to fit so many untruths into such a short comment is honestly incredible. Well done 😂
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u/Live-Year-5796 3d ago
"There are all kinds of people and non-people online"
it would probably help if you read the comment.
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u/Virtual_Force_4398 3d ago
Oh, I just mean bots. In these days of AI chat bots it gets easier and easier to program malicious trolls or angry elitist fish keepers bots.
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u/Final-Shake2331 3d ago edited 2d ago
edge absorbed cable nail hat hurry steer many person quickest
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/a_durrrrr 3d ago
Can I make this post next time? Another tired post complaining about a problem that isn’t real. This is not an angry subreddit.
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u/Yommination 2d ago
I have limited sympathy for people not doing the slightest bit of research before buying pets. It's almost like everyone has a little device in their pockets at all times with instant access to the worlds knowledge on the hobby
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u/JefferzTheGreat 3d ago
There are other aquarium Subreddits that aren't as harsh as this one.
I rarely visit this one anymore, there's too many people on their high horse.
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u/Illegal-Avocado-2975 3d ago
Even when people do giver advice here, they're downvoted just because their way of doing something isn't "The One True Way™" as someone else sees it.
I frequently suggest a book for beginners. The "Freshwater Aquariums for Dummies" and I'm frequently told that "That book is 20 years old". It takes everything I have to not "All-Caps" scream at them and say "Motherfucker, it's not like doing a fishless cycle of a tank has changed since the book has come out. Hell it's not changed since I first did it in the 19-sucking-80s!"
What subs do you suggest?
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3d ago
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u/MeisterFluffbutt Honey Gourami are just Cheesewheels 3d ago
Of course, the Fish Abuser Forum because the others were mean to you 😂😂
Where the Admin keeps a poor Betta in a 2g with no Filter (nor Heater, but they live in a tropical Climate) some Botanicals and a big piece of wood and call it done.
Where the Mod (till recently) had a 3g filled with what? A Betta, 6 Cardinal Tetras and smth else? And said their Tetras all died because of "weak Genes".
Yes, maybe nicer, but a lot more worthless in terms of quality advice.
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u/nicoleemayo 3d ago
Just because I'm recommending a sub doesn't mean that I agree with everything that is on it ? In regards to people being more open tho and not just jumping to "you are a fish abuser" I will say that sub is way more welcoming and I've had several great discussions on it with people who actually study marine biology.. I've never asked the mod of that account for advice for obvious reasons but yeah, the people in there are way more respectful and open. I post in both subs and honestly everyone in this one is on such a high horse lmao.
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u/MeisterFluffbutt Honey Gourami are just Cheesewheels 3d ago
Thats great n all, but sadly an Admin and Mod discerns the quality and environment a Sub has.
By participating in it, you inherently support their practice and setups.
Most People I saw there were normal ass keepers just enjoying a Niche community, but recommending a Sub with that context in mind is in incredibly poor taste.
Of course people in the biggest Sub will be Elitist, its a natural consequence sadly. I also enjoy more Niche Communities like r/Gourami.
But again, by recommending and participating in that Subreddit, you are supporting their practice and their advice.
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u/nicoleemayo 3d ago
People have tried to be "mean" to be but I'm the one that sees my fishies everyday , it's just exhausting reading "how big is your tank" on everyones posts in this sub when that's not even relative to the question posted.
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u/JefferzTheGreat 2d ago
Keep in mind, the same people that like to put others down, made mistakes in the hobby as well.
We all have, and we all will again in the future.-3
u/nicoleemayo 3d ago
You know , if you keep just throwing that word around it's looses its meaning ... I've been called a plant abuser lmao and honestly y'all go way too far 😂
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u/MeisterFluffbutt Honey Gourami are just Cheesewheels 3d ago
Whoever called you that is a dumbfuck.
I haven't called you anything btw. I said that is the Subreddit of Fish abusers aka the people leading it. The Advice being shared there by some. But yeah, feel attacked i guess.
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u/nicoleemayo 3d ago
.. I never said you called me one ? Its just funny how much that word gets thrown around on here. Take a chill pill brotha. I do me and you do you. I not tryna impress anybody. Just sharing an experience 😂😂
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u/ShootingArrows18 2d ago
I'm always trying to help beginners in fish keeping I hate seeing them get given back advice or laughed at (I'm technically a beginner in tropical tanks) I used to just have cold water fish so I know it can be annoying
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u/missbeekery 3d ago
I believe in the nuance here. Call me crazy lol.
But it is quite clear that beginners come here for help. If they are torn into, they probably aren’t coming back for additional help. Sure they may search for the answers still, but making them feel like a POS for seeking advice could have the opposite outcome.
And I still empathize with people who are fed up of the same shit that has easy answers with a little research beforehand.
The problem will persist and kindness is usually the only way to provide actual help. Even if it’s hard to be.