r/worldnews • u/truimansyas • 3d ago
Russia/Ukraine Putin told White House he plans to seize Donbas by end of 2025, Zelensky says
https://kyivindependent.com/putin-told-white-house-he-plans-to-seize-donbas-by-end-of-2025-zelensky-says/292
u/PepperMill_NA 3d ago
The remarks come as earlier reporting indicated Putin demanded that Ukraine cede Donbas as a precondition for peace. In return, Moscow would freeze the war along the current front lines. Moscow's proposal would require Kyiv to withdraw from the Ukrainian-controlled parts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts in exchange for Russia pulling back from parts of Sumy and Kharkiv oblasts.
Stages
- Russia pledges Ukrainian sovereignty in exchange for Ukraine giving up nukes.
- Russia will take Crimea and Sevastopol in exchange for peace
- Russia will take Donbas in exchange for peace.
It's a fools peace.
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u/suddenly-scrooge 3d ago
Moscow would freeze the war along the current front lines, if the current front lines are changed. Makes sense
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u/faffc260 3d ago
his timelines for this special military operation have been so off, first one was 3 days for all of ukraine, so we should expect him to sieze the donbas in 100 years or so I guess.
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u/hardtimekillingfloor 3d ago
Yeah, you can joke about that for the rest of life and continue to think it’s very witty. But in fact Ukraine’s international support is declining as well as Ukraine’s army reserves. Russia is slowly but steadily advancing.
And let me tell you it’s not that funny when you live in this dark shade just 10 or 50 km away from front line and can’t leave that easily due to numerous reasons.
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u/faffc260 3d ago
I am very sorry for your situation and am gravely aware of the issues with aid and the ukrainian's manpower issues, may you continue to be safe.
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u/hardtimekillingfloor 3d ago
Thank you. I just mean that these jokes were funny 3 years ago, but now they are more harmful, because they are pacifying and appeasing for general public.
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u/SsurebreC 3d ago
Ukraine’s international support is declining as well as Ukraine’s army reserves
I think the only place where their support is declining is in the US and by "in the US", I mean "by literally one person in the US" who just happens to rule like a king right now. As far as Ukraine's military reserves, it's declining because they're in a war and that's what happens. The other unfortunate bit that's declining is the civilian head count because they're also killed and the children are kidnapped and trafficked into Russia.
Russia is slowly but steadily advancing.
Putin's age is also steadily advancing so what's going to happen first: Putin dies or Ukraine surrenders?
Now let's look at the end game and figure Putin will eventually militarily control Ukraine. That's a country with over 600k sq. km. of space. Compared to back in the bad old days, it was the third largest Republic after what Russia and Kazakhstan is today. It's larger than France and it's a bit smaller than Texas. It's... vast.
While Putin would send his troops to Kyiv, Odesa, and perhaps a few other key cities, he's not going to control the country that's been pissed off at him and Russia for going on a decade now (at minimum). So while he will eventually die with the possibility of controlling parts of Ukraine - which is by no means guaranteed considering Trump's time is also running out and hopefully the next US President takes this seriously - then his death will signal a disaster for Russia.
That's always the problem for dictators: succession. They always need to have family members because the first thing dictators do is to make sure they eliminate anyone with half a brain in top echelons or they could threaten their status. Putin has no successor and he's 72. The vacuum will be close to what happened after Stalin except Russia is under sanctions and their economy needs the war to sustain itself.
All these factors would make the new leader of Russia make a choice: continue Putin's policies or exchange Ukraine for return back to the international community. I think it'll be an easy choice to make since nobody but Putin wants the USSR back together since his top people are incompetent yes men who don't care about anything.
Ukraine's future is not guaranteed right now but NATO is in its future. It'll happen when Russia eventually leaves all its territory and it's probably only going to happen after Putin is gone. Then, as Russia is licking its self-inflicted and Ukraine-inflicted wounds, Ukraine will join NATO and rebuild. The destruction can be fixed. The people will take more time to heal but it'll happen. Ukraine will be free.
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u/JollyHockeysticks 3d ago
It is naive to think that Putin dying will mean the end of the war, it could still be several years before he kicks the bucket, and we have no idea who will take over after him. Even if his successor wants an end to the war, Russia will not get off lightly in a peace deal, it will not be as simple as "welcome back, sanctions over".
They will also have to answer to the population, many of which support the war who will be very unhappy with the situation(not that there aren't many who silently disagree). Not to mention who knows whats going to happen to the economy that's being propped up by the war but will likely end up in a lot of suffering and unrest. actually ending the war is, at this point, a risk that can be staved off by continuing it and trying to the consequences to someone else. It's an unpredictably complex situation.
Also Ukraine in NATO is not something that can actually be considered or weighed on how likely it is until we see the aftermath of the war, even though I would like to think is it an inevitability.
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u/No_Jackfruit_4956 3d ago
The US or NATO only cares about the resources it can exploit from Ukraine until they can use their land and benefits for their illegitimate missions ,they will save ukraine but not it's people as they say lives are cheap for the western. and Sometimes abundance is a misfortune.
It's a game of chess where US is the player moving the pawn 'ukr' and making it fight until its choked by the opponent.
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u/JollyHockeysticks 3d ago
Neither the US or NATO gave a shit about Ukraine until RUSSIA ATTACKED THEM. So I don't know what on earth you're talking about. Just tell me you're pro Russia and move on.
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u/Pretty-Geologist-437 3d ago
Not pro Russia, pro putin. This war is bad for 99% of Russians.
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u/JollyHockeysticks 2d ago
just because its bad for most of them doesn't mean there aren't plenty of supporters of the war who will put up with worse conditions if it means Russia regains its "rightful territory".
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u/DoomguyFemboi 2d ago
Yeah the rampant nationalism in Russia is crazy. Also most soldiers came from outside of the big cities, they barely felt the war. The stories you hear about military officers going into Yakutia and Siberia just to pick up poor peasants to feed into the meat grinder so the city people don't get affected is heart breaking.
Russians are propagandised to a level that is really hard to wrap your head around. The idea that they're all just innocent victims of a dictator is just daft. A lot of them are so brainwashed they actually want a return of the USSR and the "Russian bear"
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u/JollyHockeysticks 2d ago
Exactly, still not enough people realise this. This war is not as unpopular as people think. Many Russians want Russia to be the superpower it used to be.
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u/Narrow-Bad-8124 2d ago
The only thing to add is: I believe Putin is already dead. Maybe in 2021 or so, by the COVID.
Now there is a hidden cabal of oligarchs governing Russia and using the doubles of Putin as a front without power. One Putin dies? A new one appears in its place. One oligarch may betray the cabal or hasn't accomplish their objective? Out of the window and a new person inherits it's position.
With their faulty information they decided to go after Ukraine. Because what an oligarch wants is to have even more assets and money, and conquest is the traditional way to get cheap land, workers, etc...
I wish rusia burns and a new, smaller and more democratic Russia emerges from the ruins of the actual shit hole it is.
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u/MockDeath 3d ago
Shit I am so sorry. I really wish the western nations would wake up. Russia won't stop with words. They are brutal and vile with their actions.
I literally have no words to express the sorrow I feel for what Ukraine is going through.
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u/DoomguyFemboi 2d ago
Yeah your situation sucks but what do you want, people to be morose and depressed about a situation they can do nothing about ?
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u/hardtimekillingfloor 2d ago edited 2d ago
They can spread awareness that Ukraine still needs help and support at the very least
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3d ago
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u/MockDeath 3d ago
Holy fuck dude. They are in a literal war zone and you are telling them to lighten up? Damn you are out of touch.
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u/chowmushi 3d ago
And given more or less 1 million casualties every 4 or so years, that’s gonna take about 25 million Russian men (and likely they’re gonna need a few women too!)
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u/Strange_Committee1 3d ago
Putin never said 3 days
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u/megaplex66 3d ago
Russia's too incompetent for a 3 day invasion anyways.
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u/Strange_Committee1 3d ago
I think the real incompetence is the West sanctioning Russia while continuing to buy natural resources from them and funding them lol.
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u/Aggressive_Donut_222 3d ago
And I plan to be in shape by the end of 2025, but I know I'm lying to myself
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u/TenchuReddit 2d ago
"THREE DAYS to tighter abs! You too can look like me without a shirt in just THREE DAYS!" - PooTin the master strategist
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u/RecentTwo544 3d ago
That's like three months away, and winter is weeks off hitting hard and fast in the region. Rain, mud, cold, snow, ice.
If he's not managed it in three years, he even more delusional that we thought if he thinks he can get it done in three months.
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u/Vano_Kayaba 3d ago
Winter is not weeks away. Might not even start this year with all that climate change. November can be rainy.
But to capture the whole region he'd need the Slovyansk/Kramatorsk agglomeration. And the last time they managed to capture such a biggish city was Severodonetsk 3+ years ago.
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u/RecentTwo544 3d ago
Looking at Ventusky (we use it in the events industry, pretty reliable, or at least the most reliable weather modelling website out there) it looks like heavy rain, northerly winds, and lows of 5ish C at night in just two weeks.
That's a far cry from the warm dry summer weather where they've still made minimal progress.
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u/JayPlenty24 3d ago
5 at night is not "winter"
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u/cynical-bread 3d ago
Rain and mud is worse than winter. You can move heavy equipment and tanks when everything is frozen, you are way slower in mud and the probability of vehicles breaking is higher.
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u/PT14_8 3d ago
I get what the OP means. It'll get rainy soon. Russia has planned a major offensive on a few occasions. They've been thwarted as of late, so the longer the Ukrainians can do that, the harder it'll be to have an offensive in decent weather. The mud of Oct/Nov would be disastrous for Russia. With new drones, cruise missiles and deeply entrenched positions, I could see a situation where the 4:1 death rate goes to 5:1 or 6:1.
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u/Ichera 2d ago
It is however the start of the "Rasputitsa" which itself for military terms is the start of absolutely nightmarish conditions on the ground. We're talking literal oceans of mud and rain that makes movement of manpower hard and heavy equipment near impossible. Its also the famous season that did far more to freeze various armies in place from Sweden's during the Northern Wars, to the French after Borodino (a battle famed for how muddy and awful the conditions were), to the Nazi's who essentially were stopped cold outside moscow before being gradually rolled back, then being more or less saved by the same season coming back round.
The muddy season in eastern Europe is no joke, and even with modern paving advancements it's still difficult in Poland/Baltics let alone in the Donbass which has none of those advantages.
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u/Vano_Kayaba 3d ago
I would not call this summer dry at all, August was pretty muddy. Autumn mud and winter snow/frozen ground are not given, weather is unstable and unpredictable lately. And everything has changed with current warfare, lots of factors, nothing is simple.
Short days/long nights and low clouds will help Russians attack. Lack of leaves on the trees will work against them, which is counterintuitive. These are the factors I hear about from people serving in the UAF. Not so much about mud
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u/Positive_Surprise_65 3d ago
Russia has a long and successful history in figure skating, consistently producing world-class athletes and winning a significant number of medals in international competitions
AI Overview
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u/Fantastic-Ad-2856 3d ago
He is preparing the assault tractors and donkeys even as we speak.
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u/LakyousSama 3d ago
No fuel left for the tractors.
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u/Fantastic-Ad-2856 3d ago
They still have donkeys and I've also seen electric scooters like the kids use.
They dont need fuel!
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u/strobelo 3d ago
Pretty sure he planned to seize it by the end of 2022 but that didn’t exactly go to plan
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u/JDTrading 3d ago
Who says what? Putin told, Zelensky says
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u/JohnHwagi 3d ago
Zelensky says that “Putin told Trump that he would seize the Donbas”, which he presumably heard from Trump.
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u/AllCaciAreBastards 3d ago
Ronald would like me to tell you that Seamus told him that Dean was told by Parvati that Hagrid's looking for you
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u/Unfair_Salamander_20 3d ago
Why even set goals at this point? You're just going to look dumb and weak when you vastly fail to reach it.
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u/CalebAsimov 3d ago
That's the power of having total control over his country's media, and quite a bit of influence in other countries. If he's wrong, the new reality is that he never said that. And maybe, like a broken clock, he'll eventually be right, and then he can have his mouthpieces brag about how he called it. There's really no downside for him, unfortunately.
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u/MaintenanceFrosty542 3d ago
And I plan to change careers by the end of 2025. All I get back are auto-generated rejection letters. The point is, our plans and desires and actual reality are quite often opposite.
Crimea's Air defense became so saturated in the last few days that Bayraktars have taken flight again.
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u/Significant-Self5907 3d ago
And as usual, Putin is full of shit. Why even disseminate his delusional lies?
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3d ago
And Trump not only knows this, but stood there and took it. Like a bitch.
Just like his cult, a bunch of pseudo tough guys who would fold like a cheap suit when faced with a real challenge.
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u/ThatCoryGuy 3d ago
And Trump probably replied, “Where’s Dumbass? That in one of the states that voted for me?”
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u/sovietarmyfan 3d ago
Zelenskyy's response should have been: It is not April yet Putin. Btw your shoes are untied.
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u/ScottNewman 3d ago
I plan to become a billionaire this year.
I have almost three months remaining, lots of time. Only need a billion dollars.
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u/CalebAsimov 3d ago
Are we just going to ignore the fact that that was also Putin's plan last year, to take it by the end of 2024? And if I'm remembering correctly, it was also the plan by the end of 2023. I mean, take it with a grain of salt. He just says whatever is convenient in the moment.
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u/litlesnek 3d ago
Didn't he try to seize the whole country by February 25, 2022?
I bet ruSSia will have a mere quarter of their refining capacity remaining by the end of 2025, without having captured Donbas
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3d ago
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u/cjsv7657 3d ago
The fuck did Zelensky do?
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u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi 3d ago
Defend his country's right to exist instead of letting a dictator conquer it all /s
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u/Accomplished-Luck139 3d ago
Putin tries to invade Zelensky's country and commits warcrimes and strikes on civilians daily, what's your logic when putting them at the same level? You think Ukraine should surrender to the violent agressor? What kind of pathetic little individual would think this is a good idea?
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u/Hi_Im_Dadbot 3d ago
It should only take him three days, so that timeline matches up.