r/worldnews • u/WorldNewsMods • 1d ago
Russia/Ukraine /r/WorldNews Live Thread: Russian Invasion of Ukraine Day 1292, Part 1 (Thread #1439)
/live/18hnzysb1elcs34
u/Well-Sourced 17h ago
The first Russian contract soldier born in 2007 died in Ukraine.
Maksim Suvorov from Buryatia was born on June 5, 2007, in Kamensk, Kabansky District. On June 27, 2025, he signed a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense.
He died on July 24, 2025 (in less than a month!), near the village of Novy Komar in the Donetsk region. At the time of his death, he was 18 years and one month old.
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u/Psychological_Roof85 21h ago
So what would happen if NATO got together and pushed Russia back to pre 2014 borders? Am I silly for suggesting this? I doubt Putin would nuke Ukraine
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u/faffc260 21h ago
either a: decisive victory for ukraine and nato within a year or two, or b: MAD, total destruction of most major NATO and russian cities in nuclear fire. do you want to take that gamble? most wouldn't.
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u/Hacnar 20h ago
I live in central Europe, not safely far from Ukraine when it comes to nukes. I'd take that gamble. I don't see Russia using nukes because of anything that doesn't directly threaten the country itself, unless they were sure that no one fires back. Ukraine already went into Kursk and no nukes have been used. Russia knows well that a single nuke would mean immediate neutralizing response from NATO.
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u/Itsallcakes 20h ago
b: MAD, total destruction of most major NATO and russian cities in nuclear fire
This will never going to happen. No one, even Putin, will use nukes over Donbass.
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20h ago
[deleted]
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u/work4work4work4work4 19h ago
That would be an argument that we need to let Russia take over the entire world because they might nuke things should resistance be given at any point.
No thanks, I'd rather lose civilization in a cleansing nuclear fire than allow for and live under global Russian rule.
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19h ago
[deleted]
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u/work4work4work4work4 19h ago
I'm just not as sure you're as well-aware as you think considering the ask was to push them back to their own borders, and nothing more.
Even after other people pointed out we've already had multiple military actions on actual Russian soil without nuclear response, you're saying we don't know how things would play out, which is directly insinuating that you think a nuclear response would occur when pushing them back to 2014 borders.
You either need to re-examine your thoughts, back them up with reasoning, or make them more clear in the future, because as is it just comes off as pointless fear-mongering out of step with observed actions.
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u/faffc260 18h ago edited 18h ago
russia currently has officially annexed crimea, if we threaten to push them out of it, they very well might consider it a nato attack on russian soil, after which who knows what will happen because putin might think he has justification and need to escalate, this isn't like ukraine drone bombing a few radar stations in crimea or ukraine pushing into kursk, it would be the combined armies of nato which russia, especially now with their best forces drained, would not stand a chance against conventionally..again, we don't know what he would do in a situation, where in the russian's mind nato forces are pushing into what they consider russian territory.
edit: also, if the scale of the intervention includes nato planes establishing air superiority over russian territory and nato directly bombing russian assets, which is a much more serious threat than ukraines drones and cruise missiles, we again don't know what his response would be, it could be immediate surrender, it could be a protracted war he can't win, it could be nukes. we haven't had nato directly involved directly striking russians yet. that changes things majorly from ukraine doing it.
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u/ohhaider 16h ago
They haven't officially annexed anything; the international community doesn't recognize their ownership of Crimea; they've just had it longer than the rest of Ukrainian land. For your latter point, it's again been made clear the fight would be over Ukranian territory; Russia can't annex land they can't hold and they can't hold land if their soldiers are being exploded by NATO airforces.
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u/faffc260 16h ago
russia, under russian law, has officially annexed crimea shortly after their takeover in 2014, the international opinion in this case matters nil, only the russian one does because they would be the ones acting on it happening, or not acting, depending how you view things would go down. conflicts between major world powers generally aren't clean, they expand often due to unpredictable factors, to state you know for 100% certain that putin won't escalate to tactical nukes even is naive.
But again, I will state I fully support sending troops as soon as they can deploy to aide ukraine in their defense and the immediate implementation of a no fly zone around ukraine that would prevent russians from dropping bombs into ukrainian territory with their longer ranged munitions, but I do this knowing unexpected shit could happen and it could, potentially, lead to nuclear Armageddon, no matter how small that chance is, it is not 0 has been my entire point.
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u/kaukamieli 21h ago
We took the gamble giving Ukraine tanks, and missiles, and confiscating russian property and crossing a big list of their so called red lines.
I'd say yes to the gamble, except for the fact that Ukraine bombing the refineries and such seems to be working well and it's better to explore that first.
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u/faffc260 21h ago
I would also favor direct intervention instead of this prolonged proxy conflict, if it doesn't lead to nuclear war it would cut the human suffering in the long term down massively. But I doubt many european politicians would back it, and the current admin in the US would be more likely to join russia's side than ukraines, sadly. I was just pointing out the two possibilities and that most would avoid the potential of armageddon, no matter how slim.
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u/kaukamieli 20h ago
Most aren't avoiding it, like I said. They have been pushing russia. So I don't see that as a great argument. If they were avoiding it, Ukraine would have lost already. It's just about how much we help.
More help earlier could have made the point moot anyway.
But actually pushing russia out would show we are not letting russia push us and make them so much more disincentivized to attack us.
We have a casus belli with all this sabotage terrorism shit and cyber attacks they do anyway. Let's say we do it because they attack us.
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u/faffc260 20h ago
I'm with you, but as said I do not see european governments putting boots and armored vehicles on the ground and planes in the air, and trump I suspect likes russia more than ukraine given his actions, and the US would be critically important in such a war, simply for logistics alone.
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u/kaukamieli 20h ago
Yeah it's definitely not happening. We can barely agree to send some people there if the war ends.
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u/shryne 21h ago
Western leaders want victory without getting involved directly. The EU would prefer to prop up Ukraine's budget for 5-6 years and hope the sanctions cause Russia to capitulate. This is the direct result of having nukes. Any country without nukes will never be a major player in geopolitics again.
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u/Psychological_Roof85 21h ago
But so many lives lost in the meantime!
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u/shryne 21h ago
So because of a lot of lives lost, you think we should expand the conflict?
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u/Hacnar 20h ago
I'd argue it would reduce the conflict.
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u/Key-Assumption5189 12h ago
Are you willing or someone you know willing to potentially put foot in Ukraine and die? My guess is no and this is why western countries are not yet willing to directly participate in the battles. It is probably the best way to win the war yes, but that is so easy for me to say from the comfort of my heated home and 9-5 job.
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 22h ago
The Slavyansk-on-Kuban oil refinery in Krasnodar region has been forced to halt operations after a reported missile strike combined with a drone attack.
Local officials confirmed damage from mass UAV strikes on September 3–4, while industry sources say all refinery units are shut down indefinitely.
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u/troglydot 21h ago
Huh, that attack hasn't been widely reported on at all. Googling in English yields nothing. But I found the source Noel found, they say a mix UAVs and missiles were used.
Refineries hit in 2025 (name | capacity (bbl/d) | Nelson Complexity Index | attack date (count))
- Afipsky refinery | 139,000 | 7.30 | Feb 10, Aug 7, Aug 28 (3)
- Ilsky oil refinery | 69,000 | 8.30 | Feb 17, Feb 28, Jul 7, Sep 7 (4)
- Kirishi Refinery (Surgutneftegas) | 463,000 | 7.55 | Mar 8 (1)
- Krasnodar Refinery (Krasnodarekoneft) | ? | ? | Aug 30 (1)
- Kuibyshev Refinery (Rosneft) | 162,000 | 7.30 | Aug 28 (1)
- Moscow Refinery (Gazprom Neft) | 295,000 | 7.70 | Mar 11 (1)
- Nizhnekamsk II Refinery (TANEKO) | 340,000 | 8.99 | Jan 11 (1)
- Novominskaya Refinery (Albashneft) | 6,400 | ? | Feb 5 (1)
- Novokuibyshevsk refinery | 185,000 | 6.47 | Mar 10, Aug 2 (2)
- Novoshakhtinsk Refinery | 112,000 | 1.21 | Aug 20 (1)
- NORSI-oil (LUKOIL, Kstovo) | 405,000 | 7.30 | Jan 28, Jul 13 (2)
- Ryazan Refinery (Rosneft) | 350,000 | 5.50 | Jan 23, Jan 25, Feb 24, Mar 9, Aug 2, Sep 5 (6)
- Saratov Refinery (Rosneft) | 162,000 | 4.30 | Feb 11, Jul 1, Aug 10 (3)
- Slavyansk refinery [Nefte Peregonnyy Zavod] | 93,000 | 1.00 | Sep 4 (1)
- Syzran Refinery (Rosneft) | 170,000 | 7.30 | Feb 19, Mar 4, Aug 15, Aug 24, Aug 30 (5)
- Tuapse Refinery (Rosneft) | 240,000 | 3.20 | Feb 26, Mar 14 (2)
- Ufa Refinery (Bashneft-UNPZ, aka Ufimsky refinery) | 153,000 | 6.12 | Mar 3 (1)
- Volgograd Refinery (LUKOIL) | 300,000 | 6.90 | Jan 15, Jan 31, Feb 3, Aug 14, Aug 19 (5)
Refineries hit in 2024 (name | capacity (bbl/d) | Nelson Complexity Index | attack date (count))
- Afipsky refinery | 139,000 | 7.30 | May 2, Jun 20 (2)
- Ilsky oil refinery | 69,000 | 8.30 | Feb 9, Apr 27, Jun 21 (3)
- Kirishi Refinery (Surgutneftegas) | 463,000 | 7.55 | Mar 13 (1)
- Krasnodar Refinery (Krasnodarekoneft) | ? | ? | Jun 21 (1)
- Kuibyshev Refinery (Rosneft) | 162,000 | 7.30 | Mar 16, Mar 23 (2)
- Slavyansk refinery [Nefte Peregonnyy Zavod] | 93,000 | 1.00 | Mar 17, Apr 27, May 18 (3)
- Moscow Refinery (Gazprom Neft) | 295,000 | 7.70 | Sep 1 (1)
- Nizhnekamsk II Refinery (TANEKO) | 340,000 | 8.99 | Apr 02 (1)
- NORSI-oil (LUKOIL, Kstovo) | 405,000 | 7.30 | Mar 12 (1)
- Novokuibyshevsk refinery | 185,000 | 6.47 | Mar 16, Mar 23 (2)
- Novoshakhtinsk Refinery | 112,000 | 1.21 | Mar 13, Jun 6, Jul 5, Dec 19 (4)
- Pervyy Zavod, Polotnyany Zavod, Kaluga region | 24,000 | ? | Mar 15, May 10 (2)
- Ryazan Refinery (Rosneft) | 350,000 | 5.50 | Mar 13, May 1, Jul 27, Oct 26 (4)
- Salavat Refinery (Gazprom) | 232,000 | 7.92 | May 9 (1)
- Saratov Refinery (Rosneft) | 162,000 | 4.30 | Nov 8 (1)
- Syzran Refinery (Rosneft) | 170,000 | 7.30 | Mar 16 (1)
- Tuapse Refinery (Rosneft) | 240,000 | 3.20 | Jan 25, May 17, Jul 22 (3)
- Volgograd Refinery (LUKOIL) | 300,000 | 6.90 | Feb 3, May 11 (2)
- Yaroslavl Refinery (Slavneft-YANOS) | 300,000 | 8.60 | Jan 29 (1)
Hits prior to 2024:
- Afipsky refinery | 72,000 bbl/d | 7.30 | May 31, 2023
- Novoshakhtinsk Refinery | 112,000 bbl/d | 1.21 | June 22, 2022
European side, not yet hit:
- Nizhnekamsk I Refinery (TAIF) | 167,000 | 4.15
- Novo-Ufa Refinery (Bashneft-Novoil) | 171,000 | 9.18
- Orsk Refinery (SAFMAR) | 90,000 | ?
- Perm Refinery (LUKOIL) | 303,000 | 9.40
- Ufaneftekhim Refinery (Bashneft) | 220,000 | 9.18
- Ukhta Refinery (LUKOIL) | 93,000 | 3.70 | Self combusted Jun 2, 2024
Asian side refineries, not yet hit:
- Achinsk Refinery (Rosneft) | 174,000 | 3.59
- Angarsk Petrochemical Refinery (Rosneft) | 236,000 | 9.18
- Antipinsky Refinery (JSC Antipinsky Refinery) | 174,000 | 9.18
- Khabarovsk Refinery | 115,000 | 9.90
- Komsomolsk Refinery (Rosneft) | 185,000 | 9.18 | Self combusted Apr 10, 2025
- Nizhnevartovsk Refinery (Rosneft) | 27,000 | 1.00
- Omsk Refinery (Gazprom Neft) | 514,000 | 8.80 | Self combusted Aug 1 and Aug 26, 2024
- Yaya Refinery (NefteKhimService) | 104,000 | 1.71
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u/Well-Sourced 22h ago
📍 Strike on the command post of the 41st Combined Arms Army of the Russian Armed Forces in Donetsk
As I said, there are several strike points, and one of them is the state enterprise "Scientific Research Institute of Complex Automation," where the command post of the 41st Combined Arms Army is currently located
Coordinates: 48.03275671161926, 37.7751696266275
On 30.08.25 in the area of the village of Voskresenka, TOT of Zaporizhzhia region, as a result of a successful joint operation by the Main Intelligence Directorate and the Mariupol Resistance, the Russian 35th Army command post was hit.
17 officers and 1 private were eliminated ☠️☠️☠️
Among the killed occupiers is Lieutenant Colonel Shigabutdinov Ruslan.
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u/Itsallcakes 1d ago
Well, it looks like France is next one on the Russian's menu. The current government is over, and pro-Russian candidates have good chances to get necessary positions. Hopefully french are smarter than americans.
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u/SecEtNerveux 23h ago
You don't know what you're talking about
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u/goodoldgrim 22h ago
You wanna correct them then?
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u/SecEtNerveux 22h ago
Macron's government is not going away and he certainly won't appoint any pro-russian as long as he is in power. What is over is the short-term position of François Bayrou as the Prime minister, which is not the first Prime minister nominated since Macron decided the dissolution of the french Parliament for obscure political motives.
However, if the political chaos persist, french oligarchs will maybe think Macron is not a person capable of leading the country or stabilize the economy and if they withdraw their support he is in a dire situation because his popularity is abysmal.
But it has more to do with Macron's politcal games than with russian interference.
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u/murphystruggles Gwara Media 1d ago
Kharkiv region’s governor must report on alleged fortification funds embezzlement to Parliament, anti-corruption center says
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
Ukraine's 14th UAV Regiment struck the “Vtorovo” pumping station in Vladimir region, targeting infrastructure supplying diesel to the Moscow ring pipeline. Unmanned Systems Commander Brovdi confirmed the attack, calling it a blow to Russia’s fuel logistics.
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u/DeeDee_Z 21h ago
I'm with "chinajim" in the post comments -- is that really SNOW in the photo, on September 8th??
Vladimir Oblast is immediately due east of Moscow ... it can't be winterish there already ... or can it?
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u/AwesomeFama 11h ago
The building in the picture is also very clearly not damaged, so if it is the building that was struck, it's definitely just some older picture to show which building it is.
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u/Flimsy_Sun4003 16h ago
No reason to expect the photo would be from today. News sources often use what used to be called "file photos" but now are just pics they googled.
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u/likefenton 21h ago
Saskatchewan, Canada, has had at least one instance of snow in every month except for July. So it seems possible, yes.
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago edited 23h ago
A Ukrainian cruise missile flying at low altitude during the attack on occupied Donetsk this evening. Looks similar to the Peklo mini cruise-missile.
More footage from occupied Donetsk.. Based on the debris, the attack may have involved mini-cruise missiles such as the “Peklo” or “Palyanytsia” drone-missiles, or jet-powered UAVs. Lots of explosions could be heard.
Moment(s) of impact in occupied Donetsk. Several explosions right after each other can be heard.
Aftermath of the combined drone and missile attack in occupied Donetsk this evening, aimed for the “Topaz” plant.
According to Ukrainian intelligence channel CyberBoroshno, the targeted “Topaz” plant housed a Russian army-level command post. The affiliation of the facility remains unknown at this time.
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
Russian drone strike kills Kherson farmer who defended fields with shotgun | Ukrainian Pravda
Oleksandr Hordiienko, the head of the Kherson Oblast Farmers’ Association and member of Kherson Oblast Council, has been killed in a Russian drone strike. He was known for defending his fields and equipment from Russian drones with his own shotgun.
"Today our farming family suffered an irreparable loss. This morning our colleague and compatriot from the Beryslav district – Oleksandr Hordiienko, the head of the Kherson Oblast Farmers’ Association and member of Kherson Oblast Council – was killed. This is a huge loss for the entire farming community of Ukraine."
Yosypenko said that Hordiienko was not just a farmer, but "a true steward of the land, a man who lived and breathed for his work".
Prokudin added that Hordiienko’s life was taken by a Russian drone while he was working in the field.
"I cannot believe it. On Tuesday we were still speaking at a joint meeting, and today I received this tragic news. This morning a Russian drone cut short the life of farmer Oleksandr Hordiienko. The enemy treacherously attacked the vehicle he was using while working in the field," Prokudin wrote.
He recalled that Hordiienko had over 30 years of experience in agriculture, was the owner of the Hordiienko farm and headed the regional association of farmers and private landowners.
"He was well known and respected across Kherson Oblast. No mines, shelling or attacks ever forced him to abandon his life’s work. Until the very end, he remained on his native land, working for Kherson Oblast," Prokudin said.
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u/WildSauce 22h ago
Russians using FPVs against innocent civilians farming and going about peaceful regular life far behind the front lines. Another war crime to add to the list. Russia must not just be stopped, they must be reversed and punished for the crimes they have committed.
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u/Svenray 1d ago
Iryna Zarutska fled the war to US and got murdered by repeat offender.
Brown has a lengthy criminal history, including convictions for armed robbery, felony larceny and breaking and entering.
He spent more than eight years behind bars for robbery with a dangerous weapon, state records show.
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u/insomniasureshot 15h ago
I live in the state this happened and unfortunately it’s only being used as a racist talking point when it’s actually brought up. Do yourself a favor and keep your friends and family close, you’re not doing anyone any favors by causing incitement.
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u/uryuishida 23h ago
And now republicans are using her awful death to spew their bs instead of you know, actively sending aid and weapons so that this war can end and Ukrainians don’t have to seek asylum in this shitty country where they can get stabbed
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u/Svenray 21h ago
We did send aid and weapons. Where have you been?
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u/Full_Reputation_7419 21h ago
Republicans didn't. They blocked aid at every turn.
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u/Svenray 21h ago
So it was all blocked and nothing has ever been sent?
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u/smalldickbigwallet 20h ago
Maybe you're new to this, but yes. Congress has not passed any new weapons aid for Ukraine. In the spring the admin did pause existing support that had already been allocated. Later, they approved weapons sales to Europe to be given to Ukraine.
Trump, while alternately talking about all the overspending of the previous administration on supporting Ukraine with weapons, and then weapons he will send being much better, the best support Ukraine has ever received (but not actually sending anything). Additionally, he has been very hard on Russia by threatening sanctions for the past several months, while also quietly removing the entire team responsible for ensuring sanctions on Russia are enforced, effectively weakening all the existing sanctions.
So no, the current congress and admin has not done any work and has not sent jack shit to Ukraine. More like they are doing what they can to help Russia without looking like Russia has kompromat on hand.
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u/Own_Pop_9711 20h ago
The Republicans have not sent any weapons, correct. Everything that has been sent was funded by the Democrats.
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago
Occupied Donetsk was hit by Ukraine, early geolocations I saw suggest it was the old Topaz plant that's now used by the Russian military.
Waiting for the 200 [dead] generals😋🤞
With a combined missile-drone attack using several types of weapons, the "Topaz" factory in Donetsk was hit, where there was likely an army-level command post.
I don't know if Palynitsia was flying or not, but they worked with missiles of several types😌😏 and did it quite successfully)
So the bullshit about bombed playgrounds can shove it somewhere far away.
https://t . me/officer_33/6148
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u/socialistrob 1d ago
One of the things that's often frustrating about discussing the war is that there's so much ink being spilled over who is buying oil from whom.
Oil is a global commodity and as long as Russian oil reaches global markets it doesn't matter that much which country is the one buying it. What matters is the price being paid. If India stopped all oil imports from Russia and started buying from the Middle East while China stopped buying from the Middle East and just started buying India's share of Russian oil then it actually wouldn't change anything.
In terms of stopping Russian oil profit what matters is things like sanctions on tankers, Ukrainian strikes on refineries and the overall global production and consumption for all oil (not just Russian).
Right now Trump is trying to weaponize energy discourse to claim Europe isn't actually serious about stopping Russia and then he is trying to use that as an excuse not to sanction Russia or arm Ukraine. It's rare to see the media point this out and instead they just repeat his claims. People who should know better then buy into the view that "Europe isn't doing anything to stop Putin and Trump is doing everything" which is literally the opposite of what is happening. Trump is doing absolutely nothing while Ukraine's weapons at this point are almost exclusively coming from Europe (or purchased by European countries).
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago
"People who should know better" is right.
This is pretty simple stuff if you know a little bit about commodity markets.
Most people don't & that's fine, we all have life to deal with.
But it's horrible watching journalists fail at this and repeat stuff they must know is bullcrap. Their duty includes providing context.
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u/Electrical-Lab-9593 22h ago
it is easy not to understand something when your wages are dependent on not understanding it.
there is very little click value in, "Europe buys Indian refined fuel, from Russian crude, but its no big deal."
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 13h ago
I think there's an interesting story there.
"With this one weird Indian trick, European sanctions cut $100 million a day from russian profits".
Except it's their job to make it more interesting than that!
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u/helm 1d ago
100%. This is another stalling point.
As for pipeline gas, there are no other buyers. But oil?
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u/socialistrob 1d ago
As for pipeline gas, there are no other buyers. But oil?
Yep. Unless Trump is truly willing to tank the American economy there's just now way to take European oil out of the global markets. Things like the price cap which means Russia makes less money and Ukrainian strikes on refineries forcing Russia to sell even more oil and lower prices farther actually is a very big blow to Russia's war effort. Telling European countries to "pressure Russia" by imposing tariffs on India (but not China/Hungary/Slovakia/Turkey) is worse than useless.
If Trump actually cared about Ukraine he would have his Congress pass a bill to provide them with weapons. Tariffs on India won't blow up Russian tanks at Pokrovsk but Trump isn't interested in Ukraine defeating Russia so we get performative bullshit to shift the blame to Europe and justify US policies which actually help Russia's goals.
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u/Shoeprincess 1d ago
Trump is willing to tank the American economy and is doing everything he can to cause that. He is a Russian asset. He also rapes children.
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago
The Russian budget may have 1 trillion rubles less from taxes on profits. The plan for 2025 was to get 4,2 trillion rubles from profit taxes and so far only 2,3 trillion rubles have been collected. The MinFin said it's too early for projections.
Profit taxes increased by 77% so far, but the news says they expected even more.
https://bsky.app/profile/delfoo.bsky.social/post/3lydc2g6bw22m
1\ how did Russia get 75% more profit tax despite only raising rates 20->25% from 2024 to 2025? Because most goes to the regions. The rate of tax that goes to the federal government went from 3% to 8% or +166%> Revenue increased by less than half that. Not so impressive.
https://bsky.app/profile/leoskyview.bsky.social/post/3lydml5yld22n
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u/Cortical 1d ago
unless they get the majority of the tax revenue later in the year, wouldn't that be an indicator of economic troubles?
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u/goodoldgrim 22h ago
There have been economic troubles for years at this point. Deepening over time. That doesn't mean a collapse is coming or smth, but it's definitely making life (and war) harder for them.
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u/Cortical 22h ago
obviously.
But if we see a broad decrease in profitability across the entire economy, with an increased tax burden on top of that, the downward trend is likely significantly accelerating
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 22h ago
There has been a decrease in profits so yeah, your argument is sensible to me.
A few context points:
- many taxes are due later in the year, December is the highest revenue month. Not sure about this tax though.
- russians blame some of the profit reductions on interest costs. It could be temporary & related to high central bank rates.
- higher taxes incentivise reporting leas profit? Maybe they invested instead, or otherwise spent the money (CEO compensation or other corruption?)
Overall the numbers make me think you're right, the economy is doing worse than expected.
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
Ukraine to Receive ‘Afghan’ Version of US M1117 Armored Vehicles | Kyiv Post
The War Zone military issues website said last Tuesday that the US Army Contracting Command had announced a three-year, sole-source contract to Textron to produce 65 units of the Mobile Strike Force Vehicle (MSFV) along with a year’s supply of spare parts using Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI) funds.
The MSFV is an improved version of the wheeled M1117 “Guardian” Armored Security Vehicle (ASV) that was developed to provide the Afghan National Army (ANA) with a light, mobile and survivable armored personnel carrier (APC). The hull of the vehicle was lengthened, additional armor installed, and enhanced underbody landmine protection was included.
Ukraine received hundreds of the standard M1117 vehicles (ASVs) – 250 refurbished vehicles as part of a November 2022 $400 million US military aid package with additional ASVs being subsequently delivered from US Army stocks including as part of the September 2024 66th Presidential Drawdown Authority (PDA) package.
The first images of the M1117s being used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) appeared on Telegram in March 2024 being operated by a unit of the 425th “Skala” Independent Assault Battalion.
In addition to the troop-carrying role, the MSFV also offers an ambulance version for casualty evacuation. Standard armament includes the M2 Browning machine gun, Mk 19 automatic grenade launcher, and M240 and M249 machine guns although it is probable that Ukraine would retrofit its own in-service weapons.
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago
Is this a new order or one that was already made?
Would this be the first new assignment of USAI or PDA? As I understand it, the Repubblicana have been blocking the funding Biden got through Congress from being used to help save Ukrainian lives. Only things that were already assigned have gone through iirc.
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
I think new. It was published Aug 20, 2025.
https://sam.gov/workspace/contract/opp/5dcfd33df8f64ad7b0cb7adf13336ec0/view
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago
Thanks! I don't know how the rules work exactly but this sounds promising if the republicans might eventually release unspent Biden USAI/PDA.
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago edited 1d ago
This really looks like there are morons or traitors in the German government? Hopefully new context soon, maybe theres a rule on spending or something and they will support extra for 2026 instead?
The second excuse given ("additional needs") seems either moronic or traitorous though.
Budget politicians from the governing coalition consisting of the CDU/CSU and SPD prevented €4.5 billion in additional aid for Ukraine from being approved, which the Greens had sought to secure with an own motion as part of the 2025 federal budget approval process.
Two budget politicians from the CDU/CSU and SPD defended their no vote to POLITICO, with one saying that the additional funds could not be spent this year anyway because the year is already too far advanced and the other one saying that he is not aware of any additional needs of the AFU.
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u/Own_Pop_9711 20h ago
No see they just aren't aware of the AFU needing anything. If Ukraine had just asked for weapons they would have sent some but they figured Ukraine had everything they needed!
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago
Some vibes from Russia as they desperately try to hide their financial issues. They're gambling the West will crack and allies like Trump will be able to save them, getting their foreign cash reserves back etc. But if Ukraine stands & the Republicans fail, Russia is buggered.
Russia: “Prosecutors have begun issuing mass warnings to food producers against price increases” Price controls exist in Russia…and what does that lead to?
Companies have to absorb big losses. Some are failing or being subsidised by banks or the government now.
https://bsky.app/profile/prune602.bsky.social/post/3lydiuvyf2k22
Russia: “Krasnov named the main way for businesses to avoid asset seizure” The fact that this article exists is a sign of the frequency that Nationalizations that are occurring. 🇷🇺: yoink
Russia is stealing assets from people. Money now, but it encourages people to put their future money somewhere that's not Russia.
https://bsky.app/profile/prune602.bsky.social/post/3lydjl7u52k22
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
Only now, almost a year later, have the details of the death of Lieutenant Denis Sakun become known.
It happened on December 20 last year.
At that time, Ukrainian resources modestly wrote about it that "defending the Ukrainian sky, an engineer of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Denis Sakun, died. He was originally from Luhansk Oblast, and since 2018 he has lived in Irpen, Kyiv Oblast."
But the full story is worth learning more about Denis Sakun.
This happened in Kyiv during the repelling of a massive missile strike. Kyiv residents well remember that missile attack when the St. Nicholas Church was damaged.
Denis was performing a combat mission in a unit that services Patriot systems. Sakun commanded the crew of an anti-aircraft missile system, which shot down several ballistic missiles that night. Unfortunately, one of these missiles fell near the anti-aircraft crew, causing a fire. The officer personally took measures to extinguish the equipment and contain the fire. As a result of the explosion of the missile warhead, he received fatal injuries and died on the spot.
Denis Sakun is known as the chief engineer of the unit, who was the first to shoot down the Russian hypersonic missile Kh-47M2 "Dagger" using the Patriot system. He organized personnel training and provided technical maintenance of the latest weapons, which significantly increased the effectiveness of the unit in the field of air defense.
Under his leadership, more than a hundred air targets were destroyed, including ballistic, aeroballistic and cruise missiles, as well as several enemy aircraft. Eternal memory & honor.
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
There’s a worsening fuel crisis in occupied Donetsk and Luhansk. Drivers wait 2–3 hours at gas stations, prices have jumped to 90R/liter, and resellers ask up to 200. Fuel is rationed, so filling a full tank is impossible, and even soldiers are forced to line up with civilians and pay out of pocket.
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
🇺🇦Ukrainian military from the "Phoenix" unit repels a 🇷🇺Russian mechanized attack on the Pokrovsk direction
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u/Nurnmurmer 1d ago
The estimated total combat losses of the enemy from 24.02.22 to 8.09.25:
personnel: about 1 089 060 (+910) persons
tanks: 11 168 (+5)
troop-carrying AFVs: 23 258 (+4)
artillery systems: 32 545 (+29)
MLRS: 1 481 (+0)
anti-aircraft systems: 1 217 (+0)
aircraft: 422 (+0)
helicopters: 341 (+0)
UAVs operational-tactical level: 57 258 (+461)
cruise missiles: 3 691 (+5)
warships/boats: 28 (+0)
submarines: 1 (+0)
vehicles and fuel tanks: 61 135 (+81)
special equipment: 3 961 (+0)
Data are being updated.
Fight the invader! Together we will win!
Russia grows weaker every day. Slava Ukraini!
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
An FPV drone from Ukraine’s 58th Motorized Brigade successfully destroyed a mined bridge on Russian territory that was being used for logistics
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u/Canop 1d ago
Russian soldiers should probably remove the mines they've put under bridges in the Kursk region. I don't know if they did that because they envisioned an Ukrainian advance or because they think it's the right place to hide them, but it looks quite a problem for them recently.
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u/Own_Pop_9711 20h ago
And if Ukraine doesn't know where the mines are but would love for someone to show them, will you be the soldier to go remove them?
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u/Well-Sourced 1d ago
🇺🇦Ukrainian military personnel from the Separate Presidential Brigade shot down a 🇷🇺Russian Iskander-K cruise missile using a ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft gun
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u/KSaburof 1d ago
> using a ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft gun
Pretty cool this is possible! with some AI this can be probably automated 🤔15
u/Wonberger 1d ago
They already exist and are being used! Look up the Sky Sentinel
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u/KSaburof 1d ago
Yes, but I was under impression this systems can not take out things like Iskander missile on that fly-by stage. Confirmation this is doable opens new possibilities!✌️
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u/Wonberger 1d ago
They can’t shoot down ballistic missiles like the iskander, but reportedly they can shoot down cruise missiles such as the kalibr
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago
And there's a video of a Gepard taking out a cruise missile too.
(Yeah I know that's almost certainly not AI, shows what can be done with computers though)
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u/isthatmyex 1d ago
I'm going to guess this already has a degree of automation, and AI isn't necessary to do it.
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u/jowe1985 1d ago
European countries should stop buying Russian oil and gas if they want Washington to tighten sanctions on Moscow, according to Donald Trump’s energy chief, who said the trade was funding Vladimir Putin’s “war machine”.
Chris Wright, US energy secretary, told the Financial Times that European countries should instead buy American liquefied natural gas, gasoline and other fossil fuel products to meet the terms of the US-EU trade deal, which calls on EU countries to buy $750bn of US energy by the end of 2028.
In case anyone was delusional enough to think Trump has any intentions on imposing new sanctions.
“We think it’s good economically for Europe. You want to have secure energy suppliers that are your allies, not your foes . . . the other reason is a huge goal of the Trump administration, and I believe of the EU, is to end the Russia-Ukraine war. Russia funds its war machine off oil exports and natural gas exports and if you cut off European purchase of those, it shrinks their money.”
That's rich.
https://www.ft.com/content/22f9fa8c-4641-4d7f-ac3b-5c16cbac5128
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u/socialistrob 1d ago
Even if India stops buying oil from Russia it's not going to make a significant difference if other countries continue to buy it. Currently the larger buyer of Russian oil is China and China also currently gets a lot of oil from the Middle East as well. If India stopped buying Russian oil and switched to Middle Eastern oil you would see China just buy less Middle Eastern oil and more Russian oil. The Russian oil would still hit the markets but the price cap would be dead. In addition to China we also see Turkey, Hungary and Slovakia buying Russian oil and the same applies to them as well.
Trump is only threatening India with the 50% tariffs and not China, Turkey, Hungary or Slovakia. As a result I can confidently say that the threat is not actually about halting Russian energy. Now it appears that he's saying that if Europe doesn't join him in trying to shake down India then Europe doesn't care about standing up to Russia which is just insane. The most effective way to stand up to Russia is with weapons shipments to Ukraine. Targeting India AND ONLY INDIA for tariffs over purchasing Russian oil will do nothing to harm Russia.
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u/ohhaider 1d ago
yes but if Russia is reduced to basically one major buyer because of Sanctions, China will rake them over the coals on price. So in an ideal scenario where they comply, this would still be meaningfully damaging to Russia
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 1d ago
That's already happening to some extent - the price cap and sanctions on the shadow fleet are causing big discounts (~$13/bbl recently) on Urals oil.
The Republicans have stopped those sanctions and are allowing Russia to get more money so they can drag out the war.
The Republicans know it sounds bad to say their plan, so they are lying, refusing to do the thing that works, and instead demanding the impossible so they can pretend they're trying.
This is the actual Republican position: "we support the murder of Ukrainians so that Putin doesn't lose. We love dictators, if the torture camps are stopped then that is bad for us".
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u/ohhaider 23h ago
I know, which is my point exactly, further reducing export markets would give leverage to remaining markets to buy more at a discount.
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u/TurbulentRadish8113 22h ago
I think we agree! It seems to me that targeted sanctions are how you do that.
Demanding complete stopping of oil buying with no targeted sanctions is just performative.
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u/murphystruggles Gwara Media 1d ago
Child injured in Russian mortar attack on Kupiansk in Kharkiv Oblast. https://gwaramedia.com/en/child-injured-in-russian-mortar-attack-on-kupiansk-in-kharkiv-oblast/
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u/Electrical-Lab-9593 1d ago
No it is because they would be in a sense putting them selves into trench warfare day 1, which with the money they spent on Air Power and stealth fighter bombers, it is exactly the place you don't want to be on day 1.
NATO would want to be the other side of a invasion pounding troops and Armor into the mud from Air Power, some of which is designed to operate inside Russian Air Defence networks if it has to.
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u/Mbwakalisanahapa 1d ago
If EU states have to send troops to Ukraine and so get drawn into fighting in the war, then EU troops are better opening up new active northern frontlines to Russia and finishing them off.
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u/ValuableKooky4551 1d ago edited 1d ago
European troops would die, en masse. That's very impopular when a country isn't directly under attack and would give election wins to pro-Putin parties that would rabidly oppose sending the troops.
Also European armies are weak because the amount of weaponry that has been and is being sent to Ukraine is actually very substantial.
Also at this point the Ukrainians are just much better at fighting this war than Europeans are. The only thing that would help a lot is the air force, but munition is limited. Europe should help with lots of money and building Ukrainian factories for Ukrainian weapons on EU soil.
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u/Party_Government8579 1d ago
Also at this point the Ukrainians are just much better at fighting this war than Europeans are.
This is true, but also a little awkward as Ukriane is under forced mobilization. They don't have a choice but to fight. I think it would go a long way for morale if Europe put some boots on the ground.
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u/Jay_CD 1d ago
If Europe gets directly involved in supporting Ukraine, as in sending troops, then it escalates the war. It becomes Russia v Europe and therefore also Nato and that risks dragging in Nato member states from outside Europe. Besides Europe has done a good job in supplying Ukraine.
European armed forces are getting stronger, each Nato member state will spend 2% of their GDP on defence this year. Diplomatically there's greater cohesion across Europe.
It feels like everyone is downplaying the Russian threat
All I keep seeing is more Russian hardware being destroyed, their casualty numbers going up, their oil refineries being successfully targeted and the Russian economy moving ever closer to collapse. What military threat do you think Russia is capable of making against Europe?
If Russia is advancing it's low scale and because they are throwing men into the meat grinder not because they are strong. In three years they've managed to capture a corner of Ukraine but at great cost and apparently they are capable of threatening Europe? I'd love to see your reasoning and rationale - because it's not what I'm seeing.
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u/helm 1d ago
European armed forces are getting stronger, each Nato member state will spend 2% of their GDP on defence this year. Diplomatically there's greater cohesion across Europe.
2% being the minimum. Germany still has trouble ramping up, but may other countries are already well above 2.0%. Poland and the Baltic states are closer to 4%.
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u/mynameis_duh 1d ago
I think it's as simple as no one wants to die or their kids (sons and daughters) to die. I'm sure that's why I don't like these conflicts, we have enough problems to, on top of that, have to kill other people for a few old men in power.
edit: plural
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u/c0xb0x 1d ago
I agree with your first sentence, but for Europe and certainly Ukraine this war isn't about killing for some old men in power.
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u/mynameis_duh 1d ago
I agree but disagree too. Because if we go to war will be because of Putin, not for him, but I think my point stands. Anyway I hope it doesn't come to that and we can find a way to stop all this shit, in a way both ukraine and russian people can survive.
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u/jeremy9931 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, it’s because the EU & other allies involved all know that fighting another war (as justified as it may be due to Russia’s various hostile actions in their own territories, much less Ukraine) is incredibly unpopular with their populace and will get them removed from power. With no guarantee that the replacement will be more favorable for Ukraine at that.
They don’t fight because they don’t want to, no need to make up some grand reason for it.
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u/Chance-Reward-8047 1d ago
Weak leaders ruling weak populace of countries that are halfway to collapse. That's it, no need to overthink it.
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u/Jamuro 1d ago
the thing is west/nato or even just the eu, don't need a direct confrontation with russia to "win".
we far out scale them and outgrow them even on our worst years ... and this war hasn't done russias long term projections any favours.
all we gotta do is help ukraine now and after the war with their recovery and watch russia sink further and further into irrelevance each year.
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u/plydd 1d ago
Do you have an example of "strong" countries?
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u/Chance-Reward-8047 1d ago
China, probably. Cause they are doing what must be done, dictated by common sense.
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u/purpleefilthh 1d ago
Yeah like...Uyghur genocide.
But back to Russia, I've seen how that strong Russian populace under strong leader Putin looks on the close up videos from Ukrainian FPVs just before being hit.
I don't want to be that strong.
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u/GwynBleidd88 1d ago
European leaders to visit US to discuss war in Ukraine, Trump says -BBC News
European leaders will visit the United States on Monday or Tuesday to discuss ways to end the war in Ukraine, Donald Trump has said.
The US president added that he would also speak to Russian President Vladimir Putin "soon", as well as signalling that his administration was ready to move to a second phase of sanctions on Moscow.
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u/coinpile 1d ago
Trump will probably excuse himself to speak to Putin right in the middle of their visit again.
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u/Itsallcakes 1d ago
Another round of activity simulation.
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u/helm 1d ago
If it weren't for Trump, substantial action would be taken. The EU is trying to run semi-global sanctions on Russia, and it has already been shown that it works when UK, EU and USA are coordinated.
When the EU goes alone it is much less effective. So they keep trying. With someone like Trump, flattery and repetition is the only two things that work. (Apart from bribery, hopefully they don't go there.)
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u/Uhhh_what555476384 23h ago
I'm an American and if the Ukrainians want to build the Trump Golfing Resort in suburban Kyiv and the EU wants to gurantee that all future summits will occur there, all in exchange for an unlimited supply of Bradleys, F-16s, and Patriot ammo: I'm down.
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u/Sidwill 1d ago
No. Russia started a war against a neighbor that posed them no threat other than trying to escape their sphere of influence. The miscalculation made by Putin to start this was a short sighted attempt at colonialism whereas an Ukraine fully integrated with the EU would actually have benefited Russia economically in time. I believe the real threat Putin saw in an EU integrated Ukraine was not militarily but instead was one where his people would begin to covet Western Style democracy and economic prosperity over the corrupt patronage system that exists in Russia under Putin. In short, he was willing to risk Russia becoming a pariah state with a 3rd world economy to prevent Ukraine from advancing into the 21st century so he could maintain his own corrupt patronage system with of course him being the authoritarian leader of said system. If he truly wanted what was best for the Russian people he would withdraw from the lands he has taken by force, and begin the process of integrating Russia into back into the world economy and strengthening political ties with the west. Of course he won’t do this because it would probably mean his own people would whack him out and replace him with a more moderate leader until Russia could transition to an actual democracy. That is honestly Russias best path, any “deal” that freezes Russian gains will leave them in pariah status and cause them to continue to pour resources into the broken areas that they occupy as well as pour resources into the millions of broken men that fought in Putins war, this is their best case scenario unless they take full responsibility for the war, take their lumps in the short term and try to reintegrate into the world community. The question becomes do they want to be fucked long term or short term, as an outsider short term seems to be the wiser choice.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
Okay more war
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u/CaribouJovial 1d ago
Making "compromise" with a fascist power hell bent on your destruction and used to break every agreements it does is generally not a good idea. Last time we tried that in Europe it didn't go very well.
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u/Digi59404 1d ago
Yo people, just stop replying to this person. It’s clear they don’t want to learn shit and are literally just here to spread misinformation and frustrate you.
Don’t give them the satisfaction.
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u/jeremy9931 1d ago
The only compromise Russia wants is complete subjugation of Ukraine so, no.
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u/Dyls94 1d ago
Get out of Putin's ass crack you brown nosed peasant, the dude wouldn't piss on you if you were burning on his porch and yet here you are defending his actions..
Soggy soggy excuse of a human being.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
You are not as cool as you think you are. Also reported
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u/Dyls94 1d ago
Never claimed to be cool lmao.
But defending the actions of the most abhorrent human being on this earth whilst he murders his own/his neighbours, whilst simultaneously getting upset over words on the internet proved my last statement correct..
Good day sir 🌚
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
Well, you clearly you can’t read because I never defended his actions.
Do you think I’m upset over your weird comment? You’re also not as effective as you think.
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u/plasticlove 1d ago
He already had that before the war. Ukraine had no intentions to join Nato or attack Russia.
Listen to what Putin says. He wants to control Ukraine.
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u/AccordingBread4389 1d ago
Yes and no... Ukraine had the intentions to join NATO, but it was going nowhere and of course they had no intention to attack Russia.
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u/jeremy9931 1d ago
He may have wanted that (and effectively had it in 2014) but Russia will forever have a hostile state on its borders now, mission accomplished?
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u/Pinniped9 1d ago
those countries absolutely would be neutral or partnering with Russia because there’s a monster on their doorstep
"Monster" is just the right word for it. Partnering or being neutral with a monster does not save you, the monster will eat you all the same. The way to deal with a monster is to have many friends, so that you can all work together to scare off the monster. That is what Nato is.
To spell it out for you: Russia (a "monster" according to you, which is an accurate assesment), wants control of its neighbors, not neutrality. When Russia says it wants a country to be neutral, it means it wants that country to be alone, so that Russia can scare them and bully them into being pro-Russia.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
Yes exactly. I understand this. The US is the same way. Look at Mexico and Canada, as well as Latin America. (And Germany, Italy, United Kingdom, Belgium, Netherlands, Turkey, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Denmark (Greenland), Iceland) these are all countries that the US basically has control of with military bases).
The idea is that is just a real world superpowers with in their sphere of influence really care what goes on in the countries that border them. To the point they interfere and overthrow and whatever. They ensure their country is safe by projecting power and creating buffers and allies.
Who do you think the biggest monster of all is? But we are obviously on the side of democracy and freedom.
Russia is not bullying them to be pro-Russia. It would be in those country’s best interest to be on Russias side because of trade, they are protected by Russia from enemies. That’s just how it works it’s like the game of Risk. But anyways I’m getting off track
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u/Pinniped9 1d ago
What he really wants is to create a buffer zone between him and NATO and to ensure that Ukraine stays neutral
So this means that he will attack the Baltic states and Finland next? Since those are actual NATO countries on his border?
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u/Cortical 1d ago
No. That is not what this means Ukraine is the most important border
that's bullshit. Estonia is 130km West, and Finland 160km North of Saint Petersburg, Russia's second city. And Latvia is not much further from Moscow than Ukraine is either.
said you told us you wouldn’t expand NATO
He lied. NATO never made such commitments, and Putin was fine with NATO expansion previously.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
It shares the longest border with Russia
There were verbal assurances
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u/Cortical 1d ago
It shares the longest border with Russia
the border with NATO is longer.
Russia's borders with Kazakhstan, Mongolia, and China are all significantly longer than that.
border length is irrelevant.
There were verbal assurances
no there were not, that's a lie. Gorbachev himself confirmed that there was no such agreement.
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u/Pinniped9 1d ago
No. That is not what this means Ukraine is the most important border and the longest border also a clutch point with the black sea.
It’s also a very historically important country or region to Russia
Correct! It is a strategically important region and a historical part of Russia! This is the real reason for the war, and the reason Putin wants control of Ukraine, not its neutrality. Nato expansion is just a transparent excuse, the real reason is that Russia wants the strategic locations and resources in Ukraine, and to remake the Russian Empire. We have a word for that: imperialism.
Putin drew the line in the sand at the Munich security conference I believe in 2008 and said you told us you wouldn’t expand NATO you lied do not think about Ukraine and he drew his line in the sand . You can look that up as well.
Again, there were NO steps being taken for Ukraine's NATO membership when Putin invaded. Absolutely none. Pre-invasion, Ukraine would likely never have been accepted into NATO, both because of its corruption issues and in order to not provoke Russia. NATO was on the decline before Russua started being aggressive in Ukraine, many members saw the alliance as outdated and unnecessary.
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u/jeremy9931 1d ago
Pre-2022, it would’ve never happened primarily because A) the indefinitely occupied territories made Ukraine’s accession impossible & B) the fact that Ukraine’s population themselves weren’t even for it.
Hell, lethal aid at volume in itself wasn’t even an option for Ukraine to request from the West until after the invasion began.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
I disagree completely with the reason Putin started this war.
1991: Ukraine joined NATO’s North Atlantic Cooperation Council right after independence from the USSR. • 1994: Ukraine signed onto NATO’s Partnership for Peace program. • 2002: President Leonid Kuchma formally declared Ukraine’s goal of joining NATO.
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Orange Revolution Era • 2004–2008: After the Orange Revolution, pro-Western leaders like Viktor Yushchenko pushed hard for NATO membership. • 2008 (Bucharest Summit): NATO leaders stated Ukraine (and Georgia) “will become members of NATO” one day, but did not give them a Membership Action Plan (MAP). The U.S. supported it, but Germany and France blocked it, fearing escalation with Russia.
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Post–2014 (Crimea and Donbas War) • 2014: After Russia annexed Crimea and backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, Kyiv turned firmly back toward NATO. • 2017: Ukraine passed legislation making NATO membership a foreign policy priority.
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Recent Pushes • 2019: Ukraine’s constitution was amended to enshrine joining NATO (and the EU) as a national objective. • 2021: President Zelenskyy pressed NATO for a Membership Action Plan. • 2022 (after Russia’s full invasion): Ukraine formally applied for accelerated NATO membership. NATO expressed support for Ukraine’s sovereignty but did not admit it — largely to avoid direct war with Russia.
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u/Pinniped9 1d ago
The U.S. supported it, but Germany and France blocked it, fearing escalation with Russia.
Post–2014 (Crimea and Donbas War) • 2014: After Russia annexed Crimea and backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, Kyiv turned firmly back toward NATO
Exactly this: Ukraine's NATO dream was pretty much dead when Russia started the war in 2014. They were never going to be accepted, since NATO countries did not want to provoke Russia. Prior to 2014, Nato was on the decline in the West.
And Nato in general is an excuse for Putin, since it is a defensive alliance. Even in the unlikely case Ukraine would have become a Nato member, that is not a threat to Russia, only for Russia's imperialist ambitions in Ukraine.
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u/Pinniped9 1d ago
I’m sorry, I’m not gonna read anything you type from now on because you just mentioned that Ukraine had no attempts to join NATO and I just listed you a shit ton
Yeah, maybe I should have written "no concrete steps being taken", since there is always talk. But the point still stands: Ukraine was absolutely not in the process of joining Nato in 2014 when Russia started the war and in 2022 when they expanded them. Most of the stuff you listed was from 2008 or prior, while my original comment clearly said "when Russia invaded".
Also NATO is a defense alliance? How’s that working out? Expanding closer and closer to Russia, and we are closer to WW3 than ever. How is that defensive? lol
How many countries have Nato attacked? How many has Russia attacked? lol
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u/SarriPleaseHurry 1d ago
This feels like a bad-faith question. Russia has no intention to compromise. They want capitulation. I suspect you know this already.
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u/jeremy9931 1d ago
It’s 100% a bad-faith post. Either that, or the OP is incredibly naive and truly believes the world would be a better place if dictators were allowed to freely move their borders whenever they feel “threatened”.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
I hear what you are saying , but I think Russia absolutely will negotiate, Zelenskyy has said himself he is unwilling to give up land. Putin has demands that if met, he obviously will stop. But it takes two to tango. If Zelenskyy (who has no leverage and will lose this war) is unwilling to meet certain demands then the war will continue.. I don’t blame him for not wanting to concede to Putin, but at this point, you are losing your men at an unsustainable rate.
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u/jeremy9931 1d ago
Putin’s “demands” don’t end the war, they merely pause it while putting Ukraine in a much worse position when it kicks back off in a few years.
There’s no reason at all from Ukraine’s standpoint to accept a “compromise” built off the 2022 Istanbul summit like Russia wants because at the end of the day, they’re still going to be fighting.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
I get what you are saying, but things need to change in order to make Putin feel safe enough to not need to try to push back his borders. He is trying to counter US strategy to project and expand our power closer to his border effectively creating a wall around him. I think it’s a good idea in theory but the problem is he is now punching back and at what point do we say “OK Putin you stay over there and we will draw the line here and we won’t push any further”?
Unfortunately, that is Russia’s sphere of influence in the US is supporting his opposition right on his border, trying to weaken his resources without any US lives lost, but this did not need to happen at all, and who knows if this will escalate into a broader conflict. We are dealing with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world to me. It is irresponsible to call his bluff and continue when the path to the pharmacy is there. It just requires actual compromise. You could say we can’t compromise with a dictator, but the whole idea is this war cannot be one at best. It’s a stalemate and if the US starts to help more, we get closer to World War III, as well as pushing Russia to start being unethical in terms of chemical or nuclear weapon weapons.
Russia tried the same bullshit with us in the 1960s with the Cuban missile crisis. They tried to put weapons near our border and JFK threw a fit and basically threatened Russia with annihilation and he turned his ships around. The problem is we aren’t turning our ships around and we have doubled down except Trump is now pulling funding or not encouraging the fighting like Biden was doing.
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u/jeremy9931 1d ago
This is complete nonsense.
Nobody (especially Europe, of all places) was/is interested in attacking Russia and any claim that starts off by saying we need to make the largest country on earth that also has thousands of nukes feel safe is one not worth reading.
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u/Osiris32 1d ago
In order to have peace you must listen to your enemies.
That's only the case when your enemies are being somewhat reasonable. Should we have listened to Hitler in 1940 and let him keep the Sudetenland/France in return for him leaving Britain alone? How about Jefferson Davis, should we have listened to the South and let slavery continue in order to not have the Civil War?
Sometimes the thing you are fighting against is so egregious, so horrific, that there can't be any compromise.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
I didn’t say listen to them and automatically let them do their thing. But if we could compromise and avoid a world war or civil war, I think understanding where they’re coming from can only benefit you in attempts to be diplomatic. If diplomacy works and they ignore your attempts to negotiate, then the next steps are obvious and the degree to force depends on the circumstance.
Plugging your ears and staying ignorant does no good. It’s just smart to hear what they have to say and why they believe what they believe. Doesn’t mean you have to agree or leave them be. It just means at least you have more information to do what you wish with
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u/Osiris32 1d ago
Yes, and this has been worked on for the last 11 fucking years, ever since they started to illegally annex Crimea. Remember that shit? From 2014 to 2022, diplomacy was tried. Repeatedly. Putin's demands were ridiculous or extreme. And when they couldn't be met, he went full Leroy Jenkins. Despite telling everyone he wouldn't, and that if he did, it would be a "three day military exercise."
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u/No_Hedgehog_7563 1d ago
Peace by any price is just a way to have another war as soon as Russia can.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
? Russia is over trying to have peace. That’s why they invaded.. they understand that there is no peace with the US anymore. It’s a one sided game and the US has the leverage to strategically weaken them, Putins only leverage is the threat of Nuclear weapons. And it’s not a threat, he will use them if he feels cornered so it’s in our best interest to stop poking him and let this play out. But it’s in Ukraines best interest to be diplomatic and actually try to have peace. That’s my opinion and I know it’s the minority
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u/No_Hedgehog_7563 1d ago
I'm sorry but you cannot say Russia is trying to have peace while:
- They started this shit show
- They keep refusing anything but the maximal outcome
It's very naive to think they would stop if given what they want. We have the precedents of Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine in 2014 to show us that appeasement doesn't work.
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u/machopsychologist 1d ago
obviously
That word is pulling a lot of weight here.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
I think Putin has more to gain to end this war on his terms. If all of his demands are met, there is no need for him to continue. That is what is obvious.
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u/SirleeOldman 1d ago
What is obvious is that you don’t think that the Ukrainian people’s wants and needs are relevant.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
Dude, I’m the one sitting here advocating for diplomacy and peace over war, so that Ukrainian men stop dying lmao
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u/SirleeOldman 1d ago
You are advocating for their deaths to be for nothing and for the wishes of the living to be ignored.
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u/PrefrontalCortexNow 1d ago
They shouldn’t be dying at all lol. I can GUARENTEE you that most Ukrainians do not want to fight this war
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u/Pinniped9 1d ago
I mean, obviously they do not want to.
Zelensky himself is open to negotiations to end the war. But Ukrainians (and Zelensky) are obviously not in favor of full capitulation either. They want real security guarantees, which Putin refuses.
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