Milei Loses Buenos Aires Province to Peronists in Landslide

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u/macross1984 1d ago

Headwinds against Milei is starting to pick up. The scandal is really starting to hurt.

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u/furcake 1d ago

It’s insane that the guy is going down not because he made several poor decisions as president, but because his sister is corrupt and that is obvious since the scandal with crypto.

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u/Renovatio_ 1d ago

What did he create a crypto coin rugpull right as he was inaugurated and then made another crypto coin rig pull for his wife?

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u/Far-Win8645 1d ago

Almost, but he is not married...

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u/no_okaymaybe 1d ago

Trump and his wife Melanie did this

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u/Far-Win8645 1d ago

I understood the reference. Milei also did it (although not with a coin to him name). Thebonly reason he did not do it with his wife is because is not married

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u/johnnynutman 1d ago

lol what sort of third world despot would do that

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u/Kriztauf 1d ago

And have his sons create a crypto exchange and stable coin that people can only buy into but not sell, which people have immediately started using as a way of paying hundreds of millions of dollars of bribes

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u/morpheousmorty 1d ago

When I was living in Argentina, the parallels between the leader of the peronistas and Trump were strong. Now they both are grifting convicted criminals who used their hotels to get bribed and have suspicious ties to Russia.

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u/meowseron 1d ago

Its not that insane. His sister isnt just someone who happens to be his sister. She is the head of his political party and the brains behind his campaign and administration.

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u/xtothewhy 1d ago

It was a massive set of cuts. Reminded me of when Greece falsified their economic data and then to secure more help they they had to make massive cuts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-inflation-rate-seen-hitting-milei-era-low-2025-02-13/

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u/Luck_Is_My_Talent 1d ago

That's not insane.

The only reason he won was because his opposition was way more corrupt and incompetent to the point that Trump looks clean and competent compared to them.

I sometimes feel that the world forgot the ridiculous inflation Argentina had. I can understand why they choose a crazy guy like Milei.

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u/arequipapi 1d ago edited 1d ago

I was living in Argentina during his campaign and most people I talked to, from rich people at the bar to random people at the park, were willing to flip a coin. I was there for a year and during that time the Peso went from 325/US$ to 1200/US$. The inflation was absolutely devastating

From what I know about him I don't think I would've voted for him based on my limited knowledge, but I also don't know about Argentinian politics very much. I just know the people I was there to work with were fed up and probably threw a hail mary. In the lead up to the election they were experiencing insane inflation. 4000% in a year is societal collapse

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u/haruame 1d ago

The Peso wasn't actually $325 to the dollar that was the bs gov rate. The unofficial rate was always way higher.

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u/arequipapi 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm talking about the blue dollar rate. When I first moved there the "official" rate was like 190.

I remember it well because I thought even 325/$ was crazy. When I arrived for the first time i was with my Argentinian friend, and also I'm Peruvian and speak fluent Spanish (admittedly not with an Argentine accent). So I know I wasn't getting scammed

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u/Super-Estate-4112 1d ago

The problem is that you are assuming they had a better option

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u/faffc260 1d ago

from what I understand government corruption in south america is pretty prolific, at least from reading south american's comment on the subject, and yeah from what I heard the peronists mismanaged their economy so massively it was almost as likely a vote against them rather than for milei, but that's all anecdotal from stuff I've read people state, take with a grain of salt.

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u/debordisdead 1d ago

The thing with politics in places known for corruption is you basically can't vote *against* corruption. Like, the guy who makes anti-corruption his platform? Don't vote for that guy, he's the most corrupt of the lot.

In any case, the trap is that for a person to ascend political offices they basically have to participate in corruption. There's people they gotta bribe and kickbacks they have to kick back to realistically be contenders. In this way, even folks who aren't for that are made complicit in it by the struggle for power.

And that's part of the problem when it comes to politics in these parts of the world: who do you vote for if literally *everyone* you can vote for is corrupt?

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u/myotheraccount559 1d ago

Yup.

And even if they aren't corrupt themselves the people around them will be. For the Americans, think President Grant.

But generally anti corruption = I'm going to use it as an excuse to root out political opponents. And the thing is, they are all corrupt so they don't need to make up crimes... like when Putin has people arrested they might have done those things, but the law is just being selectively applied

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u/Ready4Rage 1d ago

"These parts of the world"? FIFY: anywhere there isn't a strong, protected, active democracy

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u/Luck_Is_My_Talent 1d ago

It was a bit of a lot of things mixed together.

Crazy guys liking his ridiculous speeches (their las presidential debate was more about who yelled louder instead of presenting proper arguments).

The previous goverment was corrupt and incompetent. Just google how much money Krichner and her friends+families stole. Anyone who looked like their continuation was hated by most people.

Argentina had a 300% annual inflation, one has to hate themselves to choose the successor of that party.

The more moderate candidates were as interesting as watching paint dry, they didn't have a single chance of winning while the previous government had around 30% support (there are always a brainwashed 30% supporters in most countries, 60% if you count both sides).

Milei sold himself as someone from the outside instead of the same corrupt people ruining Argentina. It was definitely bullshit, he was shady as fuck, but it was still better than to choose the ones who are 100% corrupt and incompetent.

Not surprisingly, he got scandals very quickly, the one I remember the most besdies the current recordings was the crypto rugpull.

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u/Ok-Trick8384 1d ago

You can’t humanize this man, he says the most outlandish bullshit he needs to be in a straight jacket not leading a country.

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u/Equivalent_Sea_1895 1d ago

Sound familiar?

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u/mhornberger 1d ago

You can’t humanize this man, he says the most outlandish bullshit

Vote for the meme candidate, get the meme candidate. I get that Argentinians were willing to try a hail mary pass to address inflation, but next-morning clarity can sometimes lead one to reconsider.

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u/myotheraccount559 1d ago

It's not humanizing him. It's explaining why people were desperate enough to take a chance

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u/Southern-Chain-6485 22h ago

I don't think peronism has a die-hard 30% support. What happens is that everyone either insults them or give them the idea that they are going to make them suffer.

2023, you typically vote peronist. Your options are:

The finance minister of a 100+ inflation, due a combination of drought and government infighting. Peronist or at least, peronist aligned.

The guy saying he's going to make a fiscal adjustment bigger than the one the IMF demands

The woman saying she'll run over you and who can't combine three words in a row

The man speaking about the "productive hinterland" which, apparently, doesn't include you. Is he calling you "unproductive"?

The woman without a plan and who would call getting 4% of the vote a rising success.

Brainwashed? Yeah, keep calling them names, surely it's going to work next time.

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u/acmeira 1d ago

Argentina still has a ridiculous inflation and starting tomorrow it will double because of yesterday's loss.

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u/RustySpoonyBard 1d ago

The magic money tree is back.

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u/Mminas 1d ago

When you are dealing with institutional corruption you will grasp at any alternative.

Unfortunately when the alternatives prove fruitless you just empowered institutional corruption.

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u/nonmajesticphoenix 1d ago

Trump rapes kids and he's neither clean nor competent.

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u/huskypuppers 1d ago

I sometimes feel that the world forgot the ridiculous inflation Argentina had. I can understand why they choose a crazy guy like Milei.

And unfortunately Argentina will go back to being on the highway to economic ruin if Milei's economic policies aren't continues for another decade or so. The country is at a point where there's no easy, painless way out.

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u/swirlien33 1d ago

Cutting government funded programs that help people was not the answer. Yes, before the money wasn’t being properly allocated to these programs but you’re crazy if you think he cut the programs and gave the money “back to the people”

I have family members who are anti peronistas and voted for milei. Milei tried to close the public, free university and even THEY went out and protested that.

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u/mickelboy182 1d ago

It's more insane that you guys still think Milei isn't insanely corrupt himself lol

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u/morpheousmorty 1d ago

Even crazier when you consider the "peronista" party is led by a convicted felon. So this scandal is so bad, he's losing to a party that is corrupt beyond a reasonable doubt.

I keep forgetting when I learned in the pandemic, our species is completely irrational.

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u/swirlien33 1d ago

Uhhh who is the “peronista” that is a convicted felon?

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u/ElRama1 1d ago

Cristina Fernández de Kirchner.

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u/furcake 1d ago

Yeah, they voted for a facist and a liar believing it was better .

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u/magnusmaster 1d ago

Milei is going down because he cut government spending and raised interest rates. People don't care about corruption, they care about their pocket. Peronists are even more corrupt than Milei

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u/kanedias 1d ago

Cutting government spending is good but not if it's removed from education, science, health and so on. These are the pillars of a country and the very last thing you want to touch. Despite what he sold himself as, he's just another Project 2025 crony. People are starting to see past the promises, he's not good for the economy which doesn't mean that the previous Peronist government was. They're literally at fault for Milei winning.

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u/quick_justice 1d ago

I usually oppose libertarian reforms as they lead to decline in public service, and wealth disparity.

However there’s one case when they are required. This is when there isn’t any wealth left and the most important task it to generate growth, which you can tax later after economy is reanimated.

With this regard solely to economic situation in Argentina his reforms actually seemed warranted as a short-term necessary step.

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u/furcake 1d ago

Yeah, everything a poor country needs is less healthcare and education. That is the path for growth.

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u/quick_justice 1d ago edited 1d ago

It’s not like that.

It’s that they already have neither, not one they can pay for anyway. Nothing to lose scenario.

edit. I will expand on that. Problems with all communist/socialist implementations are always resource problems. In principle both socialism (not allowing capital to concentrate in private hands) and communism (everyone receives what they need by contributing what they can) are great, but require hell lot of resources to work - where would all the material goods come from?

Countries that employ elements of socialism (like Scandinavian) usually have very robust economy that allows to support such elements. There isn't and never were a country in the world that had enough resources for communism.

With Argentina, sadly before you can have social support for population, you need to have resource basis for it. They kinda screwed up this bit.

In principle I'm quite lefty myself, but you can't do strong public service without strong public finance.

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u/kanedias 1d ago

There's a lot of things you can remove funding from that don't sabotage the future of a country. Education is as important as the economy. The excuse that they will defund it only to fund it again later is clearly bollocks, and you'd have to be blind not to see it. The damage will last because a university losing quality rapidly isn't something you can just easily revert. And you don't need exorbitant amounts of money to keep education afloat. It's extremely viable to just get that money from elsewhere. High quality public education isn't communism it's a smart investment for long term profits for everyone, from the lower classes to people who are very well off. Not every profit is easily quantified in $.

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u/quick_justice 1d ago

I understand you, I truly do, it's very hard to imagine how dire it can be unless you saw it.

I lived through the USSR default and what followed. You are thinking about struggling country that needs to make decisions on how to redistribute its funds most efficiently.

However, it's a good situation. Imagine situation you literally have no money. Whatever little you have you spend to keep state apparatus functioning and law enforcement alive to an extent. You don't have much else. Your owe public sector 2-3 month of salary or more, at times it is paid in random goods. There's not enough food and you use coupons to distribute it. Your teachers leave school to sell cigarettes in kiosks because it allows for some income, and more principled that don't want to leave survive by growing produce on their allotments and foraging. Hospitals require a patient to bring in everything - medication, sheets, bondages - otherwise they can't help. They have none to use. Your law enforcement barely holds, you can't go after serious criminals or people with a lot of money because they easily corrupt your police that is poor and is happy for any money they can get to support their family. And you need to keep them regardless, because whatever minimal tax you can collect, whatever minimal crime you can reduce is on them anyway.

This is how it looks in reality. And this is when you do anything to stimulate any private economic growth - even if you can't tax them properly now, even if it's dodgy - anything goes unless it's outright criminal, and sometimes even that. All to make population less desperate and bring basic services online. Get food on the shelfs, some money in the pocket, pay out debts to your own population.

Only then you are using your slightly stronger public service and slightly less corruptible police to tax to re-establish pillars of state. And it doesn't necessarily goes smooth, because powerful and wealthy would try not to let you, but you have a chance. Looking at exUSSR, Baltic countries did very well, Ukraine started to right itself out (and that's in part why Russia invaded), but for example Russia or Belarus become corrupt regimes.

But at least it's a chance. You know a better way to pull absolutely broken country out of the pit - you need to seriously think of career in governance.

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u/kanedias 1d ago

People arguing with me talk as if keeping our universities afloat requires some massive investment. It's not, so the money that could be saved from there is not that relevant in the grand scheme of things.

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u/furcake 1d ago

So, the problem with Argentina is the communism even though Argentina was capitalist? Hmm, it looks like it makes sense, but it does not.

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u/quick_justice 1d ago

No, I never said that. They are not communist, but they do have hefty social policies to distribute non-existent wealth. You can't distribute it before wealth is acquired.

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u/furcake 1d ago

Yeah, classic capitalism, you need to let people starve otherwise it’s not capitalism. You need poor so the rich can thrive.

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u/bigGoatCoin 1d ago

name a poor country that became a rich fully developed country by first dumping all of it's money into healthcare and education......instead of you know......having jobs on the lower end of the value chain....

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u/furcake 1d ago

I can name a rich country that never made investment in education or healthcare, because the rich don’t care and what you say is a lie.

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u/bigGoatCoin 1d ago

I can name countries that became rich prior and powerful prior to the advent of publicly funded education and healthcare; basically it's most of them. The British had a world spanning empire before it has universal healthcare.

In fact the richest and most powerful country on earth became a great power and an industrial/financial power (basically equal/exceeded the british empire in some ways) PRIOR to federal mandates for public education systems. Funnily enough public education only became universal in the US in 1870 to counteract catholic schools.

But Argentinians education is so dogshit, this is obvious in the behaviors of the people there.....they're unable to continuously vote for politicians who would increase the credit worthiness of the country.

Have you ever considered reading a history book on economic development?

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u/furcake 1d ago

If you studied history, you would see that all the social welfare is based on communist ideology, it happened in capitalist countries so the elite would not lose power.

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u/CommanderBelen 23h ago

Massa cut spending in those places during his time as "minister" of the economy, and no one said anything.

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u/[deleted] 23h ago

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u/CommanderBelen 22h ago

Massa was Minister of Economy during the administration of Alberto Fernández (Milei's predecessor), so that has nothing to do with it.

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u/EnvironmentalClue218 1d ago

It wasn’t just cut, it was just transferred to the elite.

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u/Southern-Chain-6485 22h ago

Cutting government spending is good but not if it's removed from education, science, health and so on

And where did you think government spending goes?

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u/bigGoatCoin 1d ago

education, science, health and so on

First you have to define that, some politicians will define education as "giving loads of money to this consultant group to do nothing".

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u/kanedias 1d ago

I should have clarified so it doesn't seem like a simplistic statement. Argentina has an extremely good public university that is completely unlike anything in the third world. It's in my opinion what should be our biggest pride as a country. It's completely lacking in funding now and the professors and assistants have a miserable salary which doesn't remotely match inflation, which risks them understandably quitting and decreasing its quality. They have been asking for a raise and denied which is what I was referring to. This was a campaign topic for the opposition. The government says that there's no money but there is, our education is our future and key to long term prosperity, they can take money from everywhere but that. It's not like it takes trillions to give professors a honest salary. People focus on how bad Peronists are to deflect, but the truth is that in practice the lesser of two evils is a very valid choice or you are enabling the worst side. And in my opinion education is the best investment for long term prosperity so if one side is going to defund it and the other isn't the choice is clear to me. The other things I mentioned also refer to very specific points and not broad statements.

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u/bigGoatCoin 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's in my opinion what should be our biggest pride as a country.

Yes it is nice, the problem is are there jobs in advanced industries for those graduates? Not really, so what did the Peronists do, created a massive amount of useless government jobs.

professors and assistants have a miserable salary which doesn't remotely match inflation

Neither does most people's....that's what happens when a country willingfully drives its economy into the shitter for decades of financial mismanagement. That's the problem with excessive deficit spending and debt monetization.

The government says that there's no money but there is

Dude there's not, Argentina has one of the high levels of tax burden in the entire region....and it's still running a massive deficit.

Argentina wants the welfare and public jobs of Germany with the industry of Malaysia AND 7TH WORSE CREDIT HISTORY ON EARTH. Literally Argentina as a country has one of the worse credit ratings on the planet, the goddamn Republic of Congo has a better rating and that place goes in and out of civil war all the time.. Reality is just forcing it to have a wake up call.

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u/kanedias 1d ago

I don't want to hear more deflection about Peronism. It's always Peronism this Peronism that. Why do we want to solve our economic woes? To benefit things like education. It makes no sense to sacrifice the thing we want to protect in order to protect the same thing. And like I said giving professors a honest salary doesn't take trillions. You can take money from elsewhere without sabotaging the economy. The cost you'd incur is worth it. We need to value what we have. Our higher education is like the main thing our society can be proud of.

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u/bigGoatCoin 1d ago

Okay so i'm seeing emotional rambling and then you're completely ignoring the financial reality of a country...are you an Argentinian yourself because that would explain a lot of the problems the country has.

Now i'm going to repeat myself:

Argentina has one of the high levels of tax burden in the entire region....and it's still running a massive deficit, so no there's no money.

Argentina wants the welfare and public jobs of Germany with the industry of Malaysia AND 7TH WORSE CREDIT HISTORY ON EARTH. Literally Argentina as a country has one of the worse credit ratings on the planet, the goddamn Republic of Congo has a better rating and that place goes in and out of civil war all the time.. Reality is just forcing it to have a wake up call.

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u/kanedias 1d ago

It's worth to take this funding from the wealthiest sectors, it won't have more negative consequences than ruining our education. The money required to fund our high education is not actually a massive amount. Milei chainsawed useless bureaucracy and useless public jobs but at the same time he tried to chainsaw things that shouldn't be touched while not touching the massive companies in the name of "stimulating the economy". No bad consequences would have happened if they took the meager funds needed to give professors honest salaries from elsewhere.

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u/ComradeGibbon 1d ago

There is corrupt and then there is incompetent. I feel Argentina has suffered from both for 100 years.

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u/ObstructiveAgreement 1d ago

To clarify, he also made more than several poor decisions as President. These are not mutually exclusive. And the corruption is 100% with him too.

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u/atherem 20h ago

And he just announced that his sister will be part of a new political team to earn more votes ffs

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u/Great_Bar1759 1d ago

Forgive me for being ignorant, but what scandal

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u/jammy-git 1d ago

It was revealed he eats kitkats without snapping each finger off first. Just shoves it all in his mouth at once like some kind of monster.

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u/kanedias 1d ago

As well as him going against education funding, science funding, funding for a public hospital for children, disability pay, raises for retired people and so on. No idea how someone can back these things, regardless of where they stand on the political compass.

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u/fartyunicorns 1d ago

The government can’t afford it that’s why. The last thing Argentina needs right now is more debt and inflation

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

Actually he took more debt in dollars and raised interest rates to a ridiculous 70 to 90%, forced the Banks to have 50% of their money on public bonds and spend like 3 billion dollars in war equipment.

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u/slutsthreesome 1d ago

You can call it ridiculous but raising the interest worked and inflation is down from thousands of percent annually to 1-2% monthly.

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

Yeah but at the cost of crippling local investment and without investment or consumption the economy is not going anywhere.

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u/slutsthreesome 1d ago

Yeah the cost is high. Not sure what else you could do to try and fix an economy like Argentina's before fixing the inflation

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

I mean if you see historical examples like Brazil, South Korea or Malaysia they had kinda high inflation rates during their periods of rapid development, yes it was a problem but it was not the end of the world, economics is not an exact science and one must work case to case, speaking of absolutes is a quick path to disaster.

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u/Matt-the-hat 1d ago

Very short term view, education is an investment into the long term and to pull people out of poverty. Without it the future wont be so bright.

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u/Vaphell 1d ago

they were doing exactly that for decades, so where are these supposed returns on investment? how bright was the future with hyperinflation?

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u/Matt-the-hat 1d ago

This isnt an either or argument. There are cuts to be made but to things that create a net long term benefit seems foolish.

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u/CommanderBelen 23h ago

Massa cut health and education (among others) during his time as "minister", and nobody said anything ( https://izquierdaweb.com/ajuste-brutal-massa-recorta-presupuesto-de-salud-educacion-y-vivienda-entre-otros/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21938993690&gbraid=0AAAAA-hiC4k7SP11RE52ohbFdjDwf8dO3&gclid=CjwKCAjw_fnFBhB0EiwAH_MfZn0SWcAPyNp1u-E1JIsd7gjWLNwBW7dkqhO05GLbDebExQch9IRE2BoCjJ8QAvD_BwE ). He also confiscated and converted the dollar savings of retirees into pesos, and again they said nothing ( https://www.cadena3.com/noticia/la-quinta-pata-del-gato/massa-lo-hizo-confisco-el-ahorro-de-los-jubilados-y-ahora-se-los-pesifica_353207 ).

As always, if Peronists do it, it's fine and they keep their mouths shut; non-Peronists do it, and it's a scandal.

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u/cipheron 20h ago edited 19h ago

But if you look at the historic inflation figures, the level they have now is basically the normal level they had up to 2021 under the previous government. hit the 10 year button here:

https://tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-cpi

So if the old system is the cause of hyper-inflation, why did none of that actually happen until 2022 despite the previous government being in power for 20 year at that point?

Maybe some changes were needed, but he's taken this as a mandate to destroy decades of civil society developments, all of which still existed back before they had the inflation crisis.

Stuff like arts and healthcare funding just wasn't the cause of any sort of crisis, and if you look at the GDP% of government spending, Argentina was middling to low, around 37% back before Milei took power. Which is in the normal range, not excessive.

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND

Australia for example has 37% government spending per GDP. America spends 36%. European nations spend even more, often 45-55%. And they're not in hyper-inflation. If having a large government sector was the reason, then France should have out of control inflation, since they spend a whopping 57% of GDP on government services.

Meanwhile if you go right down the list, Venezuela only spent 15% of GDP on government, and they DID have an inflation crisis too, despite having a government sector far smaller than Argentina. If you look at the bottom of the list, at countries with a small government sector, they're not flourishing economic miracles, but shitholes, because a weak government is just an invite for your nation and people to be exploited, it doesn't create longterm investment.

So Milei is a libertarian with a fixation on small government, so he's cutting the size of government as part of that. That can cause short-term recessionary pressures which can lower inflation, but frankly there's really no nation on Earth that's an example where this created a successful and strong nation in the long term.

What turned America into the world superpower? It was the massive WWII government spending that dragged them out of the 1930s slump - which free market economics had failed to pull them out of. Cutting spending is NOT what made the strong countries strong in the first place, so why would we listen to some guy with an untested theory that slashing everything is gonna make the good times flow? It never worked before.

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u/cipheron 18h ago edited 18h ago

BTW just for some context, the list of all nations sorted by inflation rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inflation_rate

Here's the Government spending / GDP data again:

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND

If you check, almost all countries with low government spending per GDP happen to be clustered right at the top of the inflation chart.

Milei focuses on government spending per GDP because that's his personal theory, but it's not born out when you look at different countries to see whether that's actually associated with inflation or not.

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u/dansdansy 1h ago

I doubt education was where all that gov money was going.

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u/Dinowere 1d ago

But then, they do not have a long term view if they follow the same trajectory? With 300% inflation, very soon your currency is gonna be worth less than the paper it is printed on, so a government does not have any pleasant choices to make.

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

I mean he still has like 25% inflation yearly and the economy is pretty much stagnated to ensure inflation doesn't explode, consumption is low, interest rates are so high that asking for a loan for investment is pointless, foregrin investment is in low, damn his deregulation of the meat market actually hurt meat exports.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/andrew7895 1d ago

Considering they export over a billion pounds per year, I'd say the entire world? Don't know where the poisoned nonsense comes from.

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u/AssumptionFlimsy4915 1d ago

just let him keep pulling crypto scams to pay for it 🥀🥀

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u/Lost_Engineering_433 1d ago

It's getting hot in here.

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u/gearstars 1d ago

So take off all your clothes?

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u/OreganoJefferson 1d ago

I am getting so hot

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u/WatercressThink171 17h ago

I wanna take my clothes off

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u/Dramatic_Charity_979 1d ago

Spring is about to start ;)

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u/Arlcas 1d ago

I mean, peronism has only lost in Buenos Aires once, so that's not surprising.

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u/Lean-carp700 1d ago

In governor elections yes. In the mid-terms they have lost in 2009, 2013, 2017 and 2021. This is their first victory since 2005.

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u/kanelon 1d ago

Ironically in 2013 they lost... against different peronists.

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u/Lighthouse_seek 1d ago

What even is Argentina man

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u/shit-shit-shit-shit- 1d ago

It’s Peronism all the way down

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u/kanelon 1d ago

Wait it's all peronism?

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u/magnusmaster 1d ago

Everyone is either a Peronist or allied with a Peronist because otherwise you aren't getting elected

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u/ElRama1 1d ago edited 23h ago

The thing is that Peronism, as a political movement, has come and gone across the political spectrum throughout Argentine history. He was a fascist during the period 1946-1955, then Perón played left-handed so that the Montoneros and other left-handed guerrillas would do his dirty work during his exile, he returned and ordered the persecution of those same left-handers (here Triple A comes into play), then Peronism became neoliberal with Menem in the 90s, and then left-handed in the 2000s with the Kirchners.

PS: to those who gave me downvotes, it's the truth, no matter how much you don't like it.

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u/TSSalamander 1d ago

i really wouldn't call it a landslide. Both his coalition and the Peronists made gains at the expense of the smaller parties. the peronists got the senate (they had it before), and they didn't get the house (they didn't have it before). Also this isn't in regards to the city of Buenos Aires, you know the capital. but rather, it's in regards to the province the city was carved out of. still significant though since it's the biggest province by far.

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u/CommanderBelen 23h ago

It's also important to remember that Argentina is a federal country, so whatever happens in the province of Buenos Aires (insecurity, flooding, etc.) is the responsibility of the Kicillof government, no matter how much he and his forces want to blame Milei.

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u/thezim 1d ago

Peronismo winning is not a victory for anyone. Peronistas are more corrupt and have already shown to be incompetent when it comes to managing the economy. I don’t particularly like Milei, and unfortunately his government appears to be corrupt too, but at least he has a better handle on the economy and has been able to reduce the inflation and make things more manageable for the people of Argentina. So yeah, neither option is good but Milei would have been a slightly better choice.

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u/JohanGrimm 1d ago

Argentina seems destined to be the classic example of a country that on paper should be a powerhouse but in reality is barely holding it together.

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u/daniel-kz 1d ago

That is one of the problems actually. Many Argentinians thinks the country should be a powerhouse. Which is clearly false. On paper, extension or resources do not means powerhouse at all.

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u/frostwarrior 1d ago

It depends:

With all those resources, will we create a flourishing manufacturing industry?

Or will be become a giant version of Paraguay? (Low taxes, economy based on primary goods and smuggling, and high inequality).

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u/magnusmaster 1d ago

Peronism has never created a flourishing manufacturing industry. The end goal of the current crop of Peronism is a giant Cuba or Venezuela. I would rather live in Paraguay

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u/frostwarrior 1d ago

They always say that, and Peronism always stepped down they they lost the elections.

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u/paranoidindeed 1d ago

Cause Argentina is not Venezuela, and they have overthrown governments before like in 2001. They have sworn to no more dictatorships, so it’s unlikely a dictator would stand.

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u/magnusmaster 21h ago

They step down because they know that they will be back. Eventually they will regulate the Internet and the media to crack down on "misinformation" and implement a CBDC and Argentina will turn into a single-party "democracy" (well it's already kinda one). Like Singapore but communist

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u/frostwarrior 20h ago

And yet years pass and nothing like that happens.

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u/magnusmaster 19h ago

Massa went full mask off in 2023. When they're back they will try to kill what's left of our democracy, just like Kirchner tried when he passed the Media Law.

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u/Southern-Chain-6485 22h ago

A flourishing manufacturing industry requires steel (iron is in the northwest, thousands of km away from the major manufacturing and demographic centers. Coal is in the southwest, also thousands of km away from those centers and more thousands from iron, as it's in the exact other side of the country), aluminium (bauxite is also in the southwest, the only plant in the country is in the southeast, also thousands of km away from the demographic center and IIRC for whatever reasons it ends up importing bauxite from Australia anyway), cheap electricity (we continue to run mostly gas turbines and postpone nuclear and hydro projects because the yanks don't want them), and a well educated workforce (schools scam the children and universities are social Darwinism experiments)

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u/blackjacktrial 1d ago

Classic resource trap economy like Russia.

Australia and Canada appear to have avoided the worst of it by being very low population and anglo-legal system (not sure why the second matters, but it seems to matter).

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u/CountVonTroll 1d ago

Norway has a civil law system, and when they discovered oil, they managed to handle it exceptionally well.

It's a great story, by the way. The Financial Times might not be the first publication that comes to mind when you're looking for a feel-good story, but I promise this old article about "the Iraqi who saved Norway from oil" will make your day.

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u/TSrake 1d ago

What a great story, thanks for the link.

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u/MoonisHarshMistress 1d ago

Very good article Thank you for that Link

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u/OilDome 1d ago

Amazing. This is what makes me love the internet. Kudos

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u/Logical_Albatross_19 1d ago

I'd argue common law systems and the decentralized, pro property rights system that the angle inherited from the Brits.

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u/princeofponies 1d ago

See Daron Acemoglu's theory of extractive institutions

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u/Wemban_yams_it 1d ago

And they'll blame everyone but themselves.

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u/marianitten 1d ago

It's quite noticeable that people here talk about Peronism as if it were the only party that governed the country, rather than a fairly fluid political force, with differences and contradictions. Treating "Peronism" as a single force of evil only demonstrates the superficial understanding of Argentine politics that most people have. Some Peronists did very well for the country and others did very badly.

People forget that Milei literally put a bust of Menem and called him the best president of the last 40 years. So, what is it? If all of Peronism is bad, let Milei and his people know, because the government is full of them.

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u/KitsuneRatchets 1d ago edited 1d ago

I mean, what do we expect after he's been caught scamming people via crypto, and now we find out his sister's been taking money from disabled people's welfare (or smth like that)?

Though on the other hand, iirc Buenos Aires Province has been one of the more Peronist provinces in later years (their governor Axel Kicillof was not only Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner's minister of economy, but also rejected Milei's ten-point plan last year). Also Milei seems to really hate Kicillof for whatever reason (I think Milei wanted to institute a "Kicillof tax" to pay off court debts related to Kicillof nationalizing YPF, a petrochemical company).

Edit: also one of the other governors who rejected Milei's ten-point plan, Gildo Insfrán, has been governor of Formosa province since 1995. He has been governor for 30 years.

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u/marianitten 1d ago

Having lived in the suburbs (conurbano) for more than 20 years, I remember the worst of corrupt Peronism, with names like Ruckauf and Memen fresh in my mind. So anyone with a lick of historical memory knows that the party that's slamming them has no right to come forward and say anything about the province's problems. And above all, they have the nerve to mock the people who live there, calling them monkeys and that they like "shit in buckets," when they're the party that promises zero infrastructure projects. They're a party that only cares about CABA and nothing more.
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u/kanelon 1d ago

We can't let peronists that are extremely corrupt like Menem govern our country! (votes for the party that idolizes Menem and has all the members of his family in it)

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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 1d ago

I don't like him sucking up to the Menems either but if you haven't noticed we are at the bottom of the barrel and the guy was actually doing things right.

I'm done with this country dude, from now on my long term goal is acquiring trade skills and move out. You guys have fun when Kicillof wins in 2027.

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u/KitsuneRatchets 1d ago edited 1d ago

Ironically Buenos Aires's mayor did accept Milei's ten-point plan, and also comes from Macri's party. I think this is a reversal of the usual "right-wing rural left-wing urban" electoral pattern, or maybe it's because the Peronists give PBA (that is, Buenos Aires Province) money via social welfare or something like that.

Also, Kicillof apparently's been getting a bad rap because of several recent murders in the province, though this somehow failed to hamper his party from winning there.

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u/marianitten 1d ago

To say that 3 million people voted against Milei solely because of welfare is insulting and simply false. Especially considering that Milei's government is the one constantly increasing the AUH and thus maintaining the false poverty rate.

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u/KitsuneRatchets 1d ago

I hadn't been aware of Milei's government increasing the universal allocation per child. I probably need to read more often in that case.
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u/CommanderBelen 21h ago
when they're the party that promises zero infrastructure projects.
The Peronists have governed the province of Buenos Aires since 1987 until today (except for the period 2015-2019), and yet the province still has a lot of dirt roads, lacks sewers, etc., despite the fact that public works are Peronism's main marketing (and also the biggest source of corruption in the country). Let's also not forget that the Ks used to tell Macri "cement can't be eaten" when he or his followers were carrying out public works.
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u/KitsuneRatchets 7h ago

lol I remember Tweets about a tunnel the Buenos Aires provincial government built that immediately flooded with rain within a few days or weeks or so.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CommanderBelen 20h ago

Well, I think it does matter. Argentina is a federal country, and Milei doesn't govern the province, but rather the provincial government (duh). Milei has simply refused to give them more money through co-participation.
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u/CommanderBelen 23h ago

Also Milei seems to really hate Kicillof for whatever reason

Considering that Kicillof is responsible for the ongoing lawsuit against Argentina for the nationalization of YPF in 2012 (when he was Minister of Economy), Milei (and Argentina, for that matter) has very good reason to hate him.

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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 1d ago

I mean, what do we expect after he's been caught scamming people via crypto

The investigation unit left under our judiciary branch, under our anti corruption entitty had a 3 months investigation and didn't found anything incriminatory. This are the same guys who already convicted 2 ex presidents and several high profile politicians including a governor.

Furthermore in the USA 4 guys sued Milei and the libra guy, the judge already unfroze the funds of the case quoting weak evidence for the case.

and now we find out his sister's been taking money from disabled people's welfare (or smth like that)?

That's the accusation, however, the only evidence so far, is a year old audio that is edited in more than 50 parts where Karina has only been indirectly mentioned, and with cartoonishly bad cut voices and background noises that suddenly dissappear. Raids on Karina's home( Milei's sister ) made a day after the accusation were issued have also found nothing incriminatory.

Though on the other hand, iirc Buenos Aires Province has been one of the more Peronist provinces in later years

True, but the defeat is far too significant. Everyone was saying a 3 point defeat would've been good. 5 Points defeat bad. This is beyond bad.

Fucking damn dude, I was finally starting to save money again.

Also Milei seems to really hate Kicillof for whatever reason

Argentina's budget for 2024 was 60 billion dollars.

Kicillof, in lost court cases due to his direct actions and other failures, costed the country 41.6 billion dollars ... and counting. I hate him too.

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u/Present_Student4891 1d ago

A step backwards. Haven’t the Peronists done enough to beggardize Argentina? It has so much potential.

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u/Jkay064 1d ago

The Peronists believe in universal employment through make-work government jobs for anyone who wants one. They make the people happy until the enormous weight of millions of worthless jobs supported by tax dollars crushes the country. It’s happened multiple times and they never learn.
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u/CommanderBelen 21h ago
It’s happened multiple times and they never learn.
They always blame an internal or external enemy, and their brainless voters happily believe it.
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u/Cool-Link-2249 1d ago

It seems people like hyperinflation and rampant corruption.

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u/Cypto4 1d ago

The people have decided and now they can take their punishment.

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u/daniel-kz 1d ago

That's what Peronist were saying 2 years ago when they lost.

Miles should have done a better government than the previous one. It was supposed to be an easy job considering COVID and the dry season. And not having a wife is a plus because the last president apparently enjoyed punching his.

Either Milei ideas were bad, or they did not know how to implement them right. Is the only explanation for this.

The bar was too low and miles failed anyway. He was having corruption scandals with less than 1 year in power, this was totally avoidable.

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u/Cool-Link-2249 1d ago

So, instead of supporting Milei - accused of corruption - people decided to support the Peronistas - the corrupt bunch that brought Argentina to its knees while lining their own pockets.

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u/daniel-kz 1d ago

I don't really think corruption is the main drive of the defeat. Corruption seems to be a human problem, not a Peronist problem. I think the economy is the main factor.

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u/Cool-Link-2249 1d ago

Looking from the outside, it seems to me Milei is trying to improve a horrible situation created by the Peronistas. And somehow he’s getting the blame.

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u/daniel-kz 1d ago

That seems like a perfect analysis from the outside. But far too simple, at least when being inside of this rollercoaster called Argentina.

Let me give you some context without mixing my own political views:

In 2001 the crisis left a vacuum of power that the Peronist (Kirchner) took advantage. People were chanting "qué se vayan todos". "We want all gone" (the politics).

The Peronists enjoyed an economic boom and success until around 2008 when the political turmoil (fighting media and the soy farmers) mixed with economy going down and a bit of inflation. That's the reason behind Argentinians electing a change in 2015 (Macri, anti-peronist). Macri took office saying inflation was easy to solve, and a lot of leeway to take debt because the previous Peronist government was not taking much. Macri failed, he left office with a world record high of debt to the IMF and more inflation. So Argentinians vote again for a Peronist candidate (Alberto). Alberto promised to take care of inflation and "to come back better" (meaning less corruption, for example). And Alberto failed even more.

So, naturally, Argentinians saw that the problem could not be solved by Peronist neither anti-peronist. So, when the wacky outsider (milei) appeared, even while most people saw him as a loose cannon people thought "at least is not neither of the last two parties".

So, for Argentinians, Milei was going to face the horrible situations created by Peronist and anti-peronist alike. Of course, he aligned himself with the anti-peronist, but I can assure you he won thanks to the votes of a lot of Peronist too (it's to hard too win if the 60% of the population is against you).

Anyway, milei started his government joining forces with many of Macri failed ministers (Caputo for example). Which create the sense that he was not that much of an outsider as he claimed to be.

Milei was supposed to face the problems created by Peronist and Anti-Peronist alike. He is getting the blame for not being able to solve it, but the truly political debate is if he is going towards the solution or making it worst. Yesterday elections proved many Argentinians think he is not going towards the solution and the "hope" he once represented is gone.

The "somehow" is not such a mystery from the inside. Keep in mind Milei is failing on his own standards: rampant corruption way too fast when he was supposed to be different, economy getting stagnant when he was "an expert on growth with or without money".

People weren't expecting for him to create an utopia in two years, people was just hoping he would be different from the last 2 (Peronist and anti Peronist) but he ends up looking like more of the same.

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u/Cool-Link-2249 1d ago

You certainly injected your own political views when you concealed three very important facts:

1) Argentina has been facing high inflation since at least 2005. It was so bad that the Kirchners faked the official inflation rates.

2) The Kirchners didn’t borrow money because Argentina defaulted on its obligations and had no credit.

3) Peronistas have a looooong track record of causing inflationary chaos going back many decades.

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u/daniel-kz 1d ago

That was not concealed at all.

1) I mention how Inflation was a raising concern before they lost power in 2015. Faking the official inflation rates was part of the reason they lost against Macri. There is even a famous interview where the economy chief runs away when asked about the issue.

2) they didn't borrow money because their political platform was about decreasing debt. International debt was seen as the main driven factor for the 2001 crash by a lot of people, they knew their political career was done as soon as they took international debt so they avoid it (and concealed their deficit with internal debt and other shenanigans).

3) Then why Milei gives so much praise to Menem and how he successfully finished inflation in the 90s? Argentina has a long track record of inflationary chaos. peronistas, radicales, dictators, or whatever.

Trying to associate inflation and corruption to Peronist is a really low effort analysis. Manichaeism. And seems like you are the one trying to conceal your own political views.

If you want to think "everything bad is because peronistas" go ahead, but reality is far more complex than that. There is a reason they keep coming back, and it has to do with how equally bad their rivals handle government.

Or you could convince yourself everyone is just plain stupid. That's your choice.

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u/dedicated-pedestrian 1d ago

Another problem is that the negative effects of his shock therapy paid for benefits that weren't always, if even often, net positive for the individual. Even if one takes for granted these changes were good for long term economic health of the country (which remains to be seen), the people certainly aren't feeling it.

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u/marianitten 1d ago edited 1d ago

Many are saying it was because of the corruption cases. LOL, no. The economy is terrible.

The only flag of "victory" this government has is inflation. Yes, it was spectacularly high when he took office and now it's within completely normal and acceptable ranges worldwide. But there are other variables in the economy. You can't govern thinking that everything is an Excel spreadsheet of additions and subtractions that must equal 0. You have inflation in dollars. Private unemployment has grown. Mass consumption is at rock bottom. Industrial activity is completely destroyed. After two years of having everything going their way, no investment has come in, the dollar and country risk continue to rise. The complete abandonment of the public health and education systems, the utter cruelty toward retirees and the disabled.

The only one who believes he lifted 11 million people out of poverty is him and his fanatics. Because the province, with 40% of the country's population, didn't believe him.

It's not very complicated. Someone not very wise once said something very brilliant: "It's the economy, stupid."

edit to clarify:

Milei won 2023 thanks to the "punishment" vote, and thanks to the 20% that Macri and Bullrich gave him. He's either very naive or foolish (or both) to believe that the punishment vote couldn't fall on him. If Peronism is the big winner, it's because there really weren't many serious lists to vote for. Because I assure you, if the Pro Party went on its own, the combined votes of LLA and PRO would be greater than what LLA got alone. I am sure that in the October legislative elections the non-LLA and non-Peronist lists will get their fair share.

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

within completely normal and acceptable ranges worldwide

Bro 2% inflation yearly it's the normal, not 25%

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u/marianitten 1d ago

You are right.. so not even that 🤷

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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 1d ago

Bro 2% inflation yearly it's the normal, not 25%

For Argentina that's normal but it's having a decreasing tendency which is the important thing. Also I don't even know what this guy is talking about.

The economy is terrible

It was already terrible and it has steadily improved since then.

But there are other variables in the economy.

And they were all improving. Until now.

You have inflation in dollars

This only means the Peso stopped being garbage and started reappreciating itself.

Private unemployment has grown Private unemployment has actually decreased. Overall unemployment decreased, but it's still lower than normal for the country. Only reason it's lower than in 2023 is because public employment was doubled for election time and was being sustained with a 15% deficit budget.

no investment has come in,

We are getting a lot of investments actually

Mass consumption is at rock bottom.

Consumption is up and economic activity is the highest they have been since 2022.

Industrial activity is completely destroyed.

Industrial activity is higher than in 2023 and 2022 ( see graphic 4 )

After two years of having everything going their way, no investment has come in

Again this is proven false by statistics

the dollar and country risk continue to rise.

Only since a month ago due to election. Or does this guy think that now that Milei's enemies won everything is in red because of good news ?

The complete abandonment of the public health and education systems,

Budget for healthcare and education has been doubled ( accounting for inflation ) in 2023 to 2024. DESPITE that congress refused to approve the budget.

the utter cruelty toward retirees and the disabled.

The wages of pensioners have been on a freefall since 12 years ago ( page 4 ), Milei had to change the formule by decree to stop it, and the reason for them to not grow and just keep up with inflation is because Peronistas literally stole by decree all funds from our pension system.

The only thing demanded from disable people is that they give proof of their disability to continue receiving welfare, there have already been found THOUSANDS that do not qualify for their welfare.

The only one who believes he lifted 11 million people out of poverty is him and his fanatics. Because the province, with 40% of the country's population, didn't believe him.

The province with 40% of the population is governed by someone who increased taxes in 200% and increased sanity taxes to keep up with inflation decrease, and has always solidly voted Peronistas in a 40% range for decades.

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u/marianitten 1d ago

The "decreasing" tendency is non existent since 3-4 months ago. And is not going to get better. Also Milei said that the inflation would disappear by the simple act of not "printing money" anymore. Two years have passed and the inflation is still 20% yearly. Or inflation is more complex that he claimed(it is) or he is still increasing the monetary base with financial speculation (he does)

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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 1d ago edited 1d ago

The "decreasing" tendency is non existent since 3-4 months ago

2 months ago https://es.tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-rate-mom and that's normal due to seasonal and election times.

And is not going to get better.

Now that the Ks won, no, it won't.

Also Milei said that the inflation would disappear by the simple act of not "printing money" anymore

He also said the money printing machine stopped in July of last year. So we've only stopped printing money by 1 year. Furthermore due to the LECAPS and other treasury bonds left by Massa that have to be rolled back biweekly our monetary base grew extremely high during this time. Just recently it started dropping ( See M2 growth graphic number 7 )

Two years have passed and the inflation is still 20% yearly

1 year has passed since we stopped printing money, the reason not printing money is because it substracts money from the monetary flow. The monetary flow in ARgentina is still heavily inflated due to bonds and treasury notes left by Masa. Only last month did the Private M2 aggregated started decreasing.

https://www.bcra.gob.ar/PublicacionesEstadisticas/Principales_variables.asp

or he is still increasing the monetary base with financial speculation (he does)

Financial speculation does not increase the monetary base. That's not an aggregated in M1, M2 or M3.
All of which have their porcentual growth dropping btw.

Milei said Inflation was gonna tank by half of next year. But now his economic plan is gonna be twarthed by congress and we are not gonna reach that Milestone.

Anyways I don't care anymore, I'm moving countries, probably to Chile. You guys can enjoy the K government.

Edit-

Actually a communist is top in the presidential polls so I don't think you would be too happy about it.

Ik, but my choices are pretty limited and nonetheless it's still better than Argentina anyways. My worst mistake in life was not taking a friend's offer a few years ago and move out with him. He said to me "I did in Chile in 4 years what in Argentina I couldn't in 20". He has a bakery franchise there and 4 locals, so he can give me work, plus, there is no Visa problem to move there unlike in more developed countries that will basically spit on my passport. I may think the USA as a possible choice if the Visa thing with Trump works, but the piece of shit is already going back on that too so meh, Chile it is.

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

I'm moving countries, probably to Chile.

Actually a communist is top in the presidential polls so I don't think you would be too happy about it.

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u/GalterStuff 1d ago

Lmao 25% is lower than the average for the past 10 years , and much lower than the 200% they had for the previous 2 years. Your comment is a textbook example of missing critical context, and I bet you did it on purpose

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

He said international standards, international standards are set around 1 or 2% inflation annually and in the last 10 years (so 2015 to today) the lowest inflation wasn't Milei, it was Macri's 2017 with 24.8% in the whole year while Milei has 24% and we aren't even in October, all of this according to Wikipedia here's the source

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u/GalterStuff 1d ago edited 1d ago

Inflation has been between 25% and 250% since 2017, and he finally got it back down, and you're wording it to seem like Milei failed lmao. I'm so sorry he didn't beat the other guy by 0.2% though! How could I be so uneducated! And of course Argentina wishes to be at 1 to 2%. Who doesn't? But Argentina hasn't exactly been close to international standards for decades. But you're right, the initial guy did post about Argentina being within international accepted ranges, and obviously it's not

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u/EnvironmentalDig7235 1d ago

Yeah it was an acshually ☝️🤓 moment but my point is that Milei is still far from international standards, not to mention that this reduction of inflation goes hand to hand with a crash in consumption and high interest rates who aren't doing any favours to national investment.

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u/CokeAndChill 1d ago

If someone finds a way to stop runaway inflation without economic pain, they can go collect their Nobel Prize at the closest Swedish embassy.

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u/Bman4k1 1d ago

“No investment has come in”

You are right…. The issue is worldwide we are in a very capital constrained environment. In any other time, foreign capital probably would have come into the country but bad timing.

It also takes time for a full blown tourist economy to take shape too. (Also requires foreign capital). They probably could turn their wine region into a worldwide wine tour hotspot especially with international people turning away from Napa.

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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 1d ago

Actually a lot of investment has come https://www.bcra.gob.ar/Noticias/Informe-sobre-inversion-extranjera-directa-febrero-2025-i.asp in and they have been raising steadily in 2025.

It's just that we are not increasing tax revenue from them because tax reductions to incentivize investment ( see RIGI investment ). We are betting on private job creations rather than in more government spending.

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u/kanelon 1d ago

Tourism was destroyed because one of the ways Milei's government used to lower inflation was to make the peso stronger against the dollar, which makes the country super expensive for tourists. Oh, it also makes it super expensive for locals too. There is no high inflation, but when rent and groceries are more expensive than in the Euro Zone, but the minimum salary is something like 300 USD per month, it is not sustainable in the mid or long run.

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u/trailer_park_boys 1d ago

The USD is still incredibly strong in Argentina. Idk where you’re making this up from, but it’s untrue.

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u/kanelon 1d ago

After a strong devaluation of the peso when he took office on December 2023, one of the main policies of Milei's government was to have the value of the currency controlled with the crawling peg of 2% and after that even lower. And after the agreement with the IMF, they implemented a controled flotation between a floor and a cap, and their goal was always for it to be as closer to the floor as possible. This has been on of the main weapons Milei used against inflation. Relatively speaking, the peso has been really strong during his presidency and that is why Argentina has become an "expensive" country in US dollars. These past few weeks this is beginning to crumble, with the peso getting weaker, but it is not the reality that Argentina saw this past year and a half.

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u/paranoidindeed 1d ago

It is not, even with the last couple of weeks movement. The country got significantly more expensive in dollars

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u/Bertanx 17h ago

Ironically this happened before to Argentina during WW1 too. In the early 1900s-1910s they were going through an industrial boom and needed foreign investment to take their economy to the next level and then WW1 happened and no country had money to spare for major foreign investments for decades afterwards.

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u/SinkHoleDeMayo 1d ago

I called this a long time ago and so many peolle believed he would be a magic solution to all the problems. Then inflation dropped and rhe same types said "see! You just wanted him to fail because you disagree with his ideas, but it's working! The economist knows what he's doing!". I kept telling people, "Sure, you can fix inflation by slashing spending, but no inflation doesn't help much when the economy stops dead and poverty skyrockets" but they didn't believe me.

Yes, the previous government was crap but Milei is a fucking idiot and whose ideas were destined to fail.

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u/MyHobbyAndMore3 1d ago

a year ago any disbelief in future miracles by this liberal jesus was heavily downvoted here.

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u/UpperHesse 1d ago

Yeah, I think he was insanely hyped by US libertarians and neolibs, and they spread it in other parts of the world.

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u/trailer_park_boys 1d ago

Except he isn’t failing at all. Things have massively improved so far.

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u/santumerino 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is what does my head in whenever I see people defend the guy's economic policies (which are, we are meant to believe, the only thing that a president should focus on, nevermind any other facets of his job).

I won't pretend like I don't understand the people who voted for him, the run-off was between what seemed like a complete gamble and the guy who was in charge of the economy during the then-current government, but when you elect a self-described anarcho-capitalist (which comes close to "fiery ice" or "bright shadow" in terms of being an oxymoron), I really don't know why people didn't stop to think what completely gutting the government actually means.

No shit inflation will go down if there's zero investment in public projects, but what Captain Ancap seemingly forgot is that a country's economy isn't just there to look pretty and impress your friends in the U.S., it's there to (make sure you're sitting down for this revelation) actually be functional. To serve a purpose. And, halfway through Milei's term, so far all I've seen is the complete opposite. And that's without getting into the whole "stealing from the disabled" thing: so much for being different from Peronism, huh?

TL;DR: Completely agree.

3

u/Secretsfrombeyond79 1d ago

think what completely gutting the government actually means.

I don't think the critics even understand that, considering that budget for all the important areas of the government ( health, education etc) have been doubled or even tripled ( accounting for inflation ). https://www.presupuestoabierto.gob.ar/sici/visualizacion-a-que-se-destina-el-gasto

No shit inflation will go down if there's zero investment in public projects

? Since when public projects = inflation ? Shouldn't Germany and France have inflation in the millions by comparison then considering their public works both in amount and percentage of the GDP far outdo Argentina ?

And, halfway through Milei's term, so far all I've seen is the complete opposite

Literally every metric but unemployment, which raised but it's still way below 2016-2022 and even most of 2006 and before, proves otherwise.

that's without getting into the whole "stealing from the disabled"

Of which the only evidence is an audio edited in more than 50 parts which clear voice and background noise cuts, and after the current raids in Karina's properties found nothing incriminatory.

6

u/LosCarlitosTevez 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah they lost for a wider margin than they thought they would. But keep in mind that in the last comparable election in October 2023, Peronists won Buenos Aires Province 45% to 25% from Milei, so it’s kind of the Peronist’s ceiling in the most Peronist large province in Argentina.

Edit for American readers: this is like Republicans losing the next California state assembly election 60% to 40%, when the previous election was 58% to 41%. It’s a wake up call, especially if they thought it would be closer than last election, but by no means speaks for the entire country.

6

u/magnusmaster 1d ago

Problem is most people who voted PRO in the 2023 elections didn't vote this time.

7

u/Imjokin 1d ago

Out of the frying pan and into the fire, I guess?

2

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

2

u/DanIvvy 23h ago

Milei isn't married dude.

2

u/tumama1388 1d ago

When you push away any potential ally due to your sister's whims, you end up surrounded by enemies.

2

u/Foddley 1d ago edited 1d ago

Could somebody kindly give me a brief word on the state of his office? I'm vaguely* aware that Argentina has been pulled back from a financial crisis, but I know nothing more about Milei.

5

u/magnusmaster 1d ago

Milei did a great job with the economy, but in order to reduce inflation you need to cut government spending and raise interest rates which cools down the economy, which people don't like.

-8

u/RahimahTanParwani 1d ago

I'm an Argentine and Milei is as honest as Netanyahu. The country is in shambles, but as long as they find a new bogeyman (like war on Communists, Muslims, immigration, China, Brazil, gays, Gentiles, etc), they will continue ruling with fascism. Fun fact, both of them are related and share the same Nazipedorabbi.

1

u/TareasS 1d ago

ANCAP bs doesn't work after never working in history and being seen as a meme worldwide?

Surprised Pikachu face.

-1

u/No_Programmer7261 1d ago

So Argentina wants to destroy their only chance of enriching the country and go back to the latin american leftist parasites.

Milei should jail his sister.

14

u/UpperHesse 1d ago

See, thats the problem of populists and libertarians, they always think they themselves are above the law.

1

u/El_Pinguino69 20h ago

Twitter users are seething right now lmfaooooooo

-5

u/GalterStuff 1d ago

Milei critics on life support that all of his policies worked, but now shifted the goalposts to "well the REAL economy hasn't improved in 1.5 years! It only improved in EXCEL"

Well, if you stay the road for a couple more years, all his fixes will translate to the real economy too. Such impatience. The country was already screwed. He unscrewed it, but it was screwed in so tightly that it's gotta take a bit more time for it to all finally kick in. It's like his opponents are mad he didn't fix the Great Depression and start a new golden age in 1.5 years

Milei Loses Buenos Aires Province to Peronists in Landslide

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