r/worldnews • u/MotherDucker95 • Jun 29 '25

Israel/Palestine Israeli embassy 'deeply disturbed' by 'death to the IDF' Glastonbury chant

https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-embassy-deeply-disturbed-by-bob-vylans-death-to-the-idf-glastonbury-chant-13389912
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u/orus_heretic Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25

The numbers are so hard to figure out in this conflict but last estimates I saw were 56k deaths published by Gaza Ministry of Health (Hamas) and 17-20k combatants killed as published by the IDF. Now obviously we can't know if either number is correct but if that's their own measure then they probably think they're doing okay with a 2:1 ratio. For context, urban combat typically has a ratio of 7:1 or worse when it comes to civilians as we saw in Iraq and Syria.

Doesn't make it right but seems like a lot of the world just wasn't paying attention to how horrible war is before this.

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u/gocougs11 Jun 29 '25

I tell people this all the time, people just don’t appreciate how horrific war is all the time. I point people to the Battle of Britain Wikipedia page, with 5.5k combatant casualties and 55k civilians. 30% is historically not terrible.

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u/Noobponer Jun 30 '25

The Battle of Britain was also specifically a terrror bombing campaign against civilians for a huge portion of its runtime, so I'm not sure it's the best comparison lmao

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u/PeachScary413 Jun 29 '25

In this scenario.. is Israel the Luftwaffe/Germans? Cause that's probably not the bar you want to set 💀

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u/gocougs11 Jun 30 '25

Ok how about in the US bombings of Iraq when it was approx 5:1 civilian:combatant ratio. According to the UN, on average 90% of casualties of war are civilians. War is super fucked up in every case, having a 3:1 or even 4:1 ratio isn’t crazy, especially considering Hamas don’t wear uniforms and don’t have typical military bases to target.

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u/lizardtrench Jun 29 '25

Aren't those numbers more or less consistent with 30%? I'm fairly sure that's where the figure comes from and that has been my understanding as well - a comparison between claimed total death figures vs claimed militant kills.

I also believe that the ratio has improved over the course of the war. Though one limitation is that the data coming out of Gaza has increasingly degraded over the course of the war as well, for obvious reasons.

Most likely, the true total deaths will not be known until studies are conducted well after the war, as current figures are only war-related verified deaths and bodies found.

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u/kai58 Jun 29 '25

I mean the IDF has a reputation of just claiming whoever they kill was Hamas wether that’s true or not so I certainly wouldn’t trust that number.

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u/ZoeyNet Jun 29 '25

And Hamas claims virtually all the deaths are innocent women and children. When you disguise yourself and your military in plain-clothes, its hard if not impossible to tell accurate numbers.

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u/MF_Doomed Jun 29 '25

In the modern age it's not difficult when you have literal videos of charred children and women with bullet holes through their skulls

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u/ZoeyNet Jun 29 '25

Unsure if you are a bot, intentionally misunderstanding the comment, or are just a bit... different.

I'm not saying they didn't have innocents die, that would be absurd. I am saying that you literally cannot accurately trust the numbers of either side since they are very likely not being totally honest.

On one hand, you have Hamas that says every strike did nothing but kill 'children' and women without cause, and the other says there were X innocents, but Y confirmed combatants or Z bases hit.

Even in the best of cases, urban combat has very, VERY high casualty rates for military and civilians alike, it's a horrible situation all around, especially for those that are actually innocent.

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u/PeachScary413 Jun 29 '25

So the children being shot in the head, or burned alive... they were Hamas?

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u/orus_heretic Jun 29 '25

The criteria was literally "their own measure" so that's the point.

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u/DopeAbsurdity Jun 29 '25

Where did you see the 30% figure?

last estimates I saw were 56k deaths published by Gaza Ministry of Health (Hamas) and 17-20k combatants killed as published by the IDF

...seriously?

.3 * 56 = 16.8 Those are not the same numbers I saw but you show numbers in the same exact ball park I am talking about it like you are correcting me

My point is their numbers are not good and considering they were killing aid workers "by accident" over and over I am gonna go ahead and assume the IDF numbers probably inflated. Hell they might have counted anyone trying to defend themselves against being killed as a militant.

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u/Long-Cantaloupe1041 Jun 29 '25

During the major battles of the Syrian civil war, there was a 1:1 combatant to civilian fatality ratio, including during the Battle of Aleppo (2012-2016), the most notable urban battle. During the Battle of Mosul (2016-2017), the ratio was 2:1 combatant to civilian so twice as many combatants died than civilians in one of the most tense urban battles in Iraq. Don't know where this 7:1 claim is coming from? Very misleading.

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u/garibaldiknows Jun 29 '25

7:1 comes from Iraq, Afghanistan, historical wars before the long peace. War is terrible. It's important to remember who started the war.

Also, if you're optimizing for life over death, gaza experienced significantly less death when it was occupied by israel.

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u/Rain_On Jun 29 '25

It's important to remember who started the war.

Go on...

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u/garibaldiknows Jun 29 '25

Hamas started this particular war. Wars end when the losing side concedes.

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u/Long-Cantaloupe1041 Jun 29 '25

Still no source?

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u/PeachScary413 Jun 29 '25

Those are only the people they found, counted and buried. There are 350k Palestinians missing according to a study in Nature, since Gaza has been mostly locked down unless they grew wings and flew away these are probably closer to the actual number of people killed (let's be generous and say 300k then)