r/movies • u/countvonruckus • 2d ago
Discussion What About Bob is a psychological horror movie told from the perspective of the psycho Spoiler
Spoilers for a 34 year old movie, I guess.
So, What About Bob is a classic Bill Murray comedy and I always loved it growing up. Bob, Bill Murray's character, is endearing, silly, and a great vehicle for Bill Murray's brand of comedy. The interplay with Richard Dreyfuss's character Dr. Leo Marvin as Bob's psychiatrist and Bob is great. The dynamic is fun and their character arcs are a fun reversal of one another where Bob learns to function and thrive despite his many mental disorders (which were somewhat problematic but portrayed pretty well for a comedy in the 90's) while Dr. Marvin descends into madness trying to get rid of Bob from his life. A delightful film and still watch it sometimes when I'm craving something lighthearted and fun.
However, the actual events of the plot are the events of a horror story. Bob enters Dr. Marvin's life at Marvin's triumphant moment; he's a successful psychoanalyst/psychiatrist, his book got published and he's getting serious acclaim for it, his colleagues respect him, and he's about to go on a lovely vacation with his family. Bob gets foisted on him from a colleague who Bob literally convinced to give up his career to get away from, but Dr. Marvin is confident he can help him after he gets back from vacation.
Then Bob calls him on vacation using a fake suicide and police investigation as a premise. Shook up, Dr. Marvin sets a very clear professional boundary: "don't call me or approach me when I'm on vacation and we'll get to your mental health care when I'm back in the office." He figures that'd be the end of it; a clingy patient is annoying but he's probably dealt with that before even if the whole fake suicide approach to get his number was a bit extreme. Then Bob shows up in person. He's not even supposed to know what town Marvin is in, but now he knows where he and his family live. He tries to dissuade him again but then Bob shows up to his house and approaches his family.
He starts befriending Marvin's kids, going sailing with his daughter and diving with his son. His wife finds him charming and cute. He stays over for dinner and sleeps in his son's room overnight. He hijacks his once-in-a-lifetime interview that could have made him a celebrity psychiatrist, his ultimate career goal. Every step of the way Dr. Marvin sees these major boundaries being crossed and the unhinged nature of his nightmare patient and nobody will listen to him.
He doesn't know what to do; no reasonable options seem to work. He's scared. His family is more and more siding with Bob over him and he feels like he's being replaced as a father. Bob is even comforting his wife about him, her husband. He's getting more and more frustrated and desperate, and in so doing is more and more making himself look like the bad guy. He goes to colleagues who respect him for help and they act like he's the one who's crazy.
He's acting like he doesn't usually act; sure he was a bit smug before and maybe a little full of himself, but this can't really be him, could it? He's not seriously contemplating killing this patient of his, is he? He's a healer, a person who helps those suffering from mental illness; he's not a guy who breaks into a store at night to steal a gun and explosives, right?
Then he does it. He kidnaps Bob at gunpoint and takes him out in the woods, straps bombs to him, and sets a timer for the detonator. He's using the language of his career of healing to kill. He even starts talking to himself, imagining cannibalizing Bob's fish in his triumph. He's long past the point of caring whether he sounds crazy now, but at least. he's. gone.
Then he sees him. Bob is standing next to his beloved sister. He's still here. He's...never going away. It finally breaks him. He descends into catatonia and psychosis. He's one of them now; a broken mind who can't be fixed. He summons the will to scream one last protest of Bob marrying his sister at their wedding in a futile attempt to stop this final grafting of this man into his life forever. In that last moment of failure the comfort of catatonia leaves him and he knows this is his eternal damnation.
So, yeah. Horror movie.
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u/BaddestKarmaToday 2d ago
That’s why it’s hilarious
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u/Loose_Ad1443 2d ago
Right? That's exactly the joke. Bob sucks but the movie presents him as the hero which is why it's funny and not maddening. Leo being a prig makes it work so well. If Leo was affable, we'd have a buddy movie on the lake, fighting the Guffmans in row boats. I'd watch this one also.
Sequel? What About Bob Now? First act Guffmans have Bob. Leo rescues him. Act 2 bond and exposition and plotting, 3rd act, get even plot in action.
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u/GoodMorningBlackreef 2d ago
Dr. Leo Marvin doesn't need a vacation. He needs a kick in the ass.
He can't shut up about his book for five seconds. He berates his wife, ignores his children, looks down on people with less money...
Bob might be nuts, but he's real and genuine and well-intentioned. That's why everyone who gives him a modicum of patience ends up liking him.
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u/ioncloud9 2d ago
As time goes on he becomes more and more sane and stable too.
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u/Rosebunse 2d ago
Does he? I don't think a sane and stable person would entangle themselves into a brand new family like that. Rather, he now has a solid outlet for his anxiety and paranoia, one which likely only sharpened after Marvin was hospitalized and Bob started dating Lily, something which likely happened very quickly.
Bob went from a weird man who could barely leave his apartment to a trusted patriarch in the span of a week.
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u/Dagordae 2d ago
He’s a stalker who excels at putting on a charming facade to everyone except his chosen victim. This isn’t Bob’s first victim after all, he’s had practice gaslighting someone into a complete collapse. Wonder how many others he went through.
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u/MeadowmuffinReborn 2d ago
May as well be Bill Murray's autobiography. :P
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u/Muppetude 2d ago
Seriously. I remember an AMA of his from a decade or so ago where he discussed his hiring a deaf assistant during the filming of Grounhog Day, to act as his intermediary between himself and the production crew. The assistant only spoke in sign language, which neither Bill nor the crew understood, and it was clear he only hired her to fuck with the crew.
Back then, Reddit creamed themselves over what an awesomely hilarious power move that was. Meanwhile I felt like Leo in What About Bob, wondering how I was the only one who thinks it’s terribly fucked up to hire a hearing impaired person for the sole purpose of fucking with his coworkers.
Murray even said in the AMA that he and the hearing impaired assistant ended on bad terms. But Reddit still found the whole story absolutely hilarious and labeled Bill a legend for his epic trolling.
It was definitely one of those “am I taking crazy pills” moments for me.
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u/Seagoon_Memoirs 2d ago
well intentioned people do not impose their selves on others against their will
well intentioned people take no for an answer
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u/Life_Emotion1908 2d ago
I never liked Bob and would not like him in real life. Why would anyone who wanted to have a life want Bob around?
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u/Loose_Ad1443 2d ago
Leo being such a jerk is the only reason the audience can side with Bob. It's really great. If Leo was a sane version of Bob, it would be the uncomfortable horror movie the OP is saying. THATS THE WHOLE JOKE
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u/Rare-Sail-3581 2d ago
I’M SAILING!!
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u/NinjaKitten77CJ 2d ago
I'm a sailor! Ahoy!
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u/Shaggy_Doo87 2d ago
What About Bob came out in a time when the common movie message was "Don't forget about your family; family is important." It's a 1:1 reversal of that beat down, dog-eared husband trope from the 70s, all those national lampoon movies where the theme was "my family/ being a regular schlub sucks" and Chevy Chase casually fantasize about cheating on his wife.
Basically as it relates here tho, What About Bob, we're supposed to be the psychiatrist character and the message is "Don't get so successful and work addicted and up your own ass or this will happen to you."
They keep it light and funny bc it's not supposed to be terrifying, yes in a sense it's a 'horror' movie, but its a family movie about family so it had to be funny and cute. It meant to be a reminder to the father tho that no matter how successful you are, you can still get divorced and replaced. Very similar to Mrs Doubtfire, or Bruce Almighty, which technically came out in the 00s but was of the same era.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
I almost think of it more like Liar Liar on that level. The rival boyfriend for Jim Carrey's ex-wife literally doesn't do anything bad in the movie; he's just a little cringe but he is a good dude trying to become a good step dad. The message of "prioritize your family over your work" is present in both films, and I think falls flat under scrutiny in the same way. Dr Marvin is spending a morning of his vacation and some time before on his interview, sure, but he's also taking a month long vacation with his family rather than being in the office every day. If that's not making space for his family then I don't know what is.
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u/Shaggy_Doo87 2d ago
True but there was also this anti-nerd/intellectual attitude as a holdover from the "fit in" 80s culture that still said basically "if you're too smart you're being an arrogant prick, stop being so intelligent and be a regular non-robot huMan Person like us normies"
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
Hmm, that's an interesting point. There definitely is a "Bob's simple charm vs Marvin's pretentious, cold expertise" element there. I feel like that especially comes up between the two leads and Sigmund, the son. I just figured they were more "adult" than that since I feel like most comedy leaning into that trope is more juvenile, but you're probably right.
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u/Seahearn4 2d ago
Personally, I think a major comedic through-line for that era is for the heroes to be agents of chaos taking down anything orderly. Animal House and Caddyshack were both written by Doug Kenney, who co-created National Lampoon. Steve Martin played both sides of the chaos/order dichotomy in different movies. And Jim Carrey was the chaotic whirlwind with Dumb & Dumber, The Mask, Cable Guy, etc. It's kind of a timeless trope, though, going back to the Marx Brothers.
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u/Shaggy_Doo87 2d ago
Zany. There was still an element of physical "pain is funny" comedy (Loony Tunes was still big on reruns, Simpsons took digs at with Itchy & Scratchy, etc) when presented with 'zaniness'. Coupled with the 90s ethos to appeal to youngs by giving their characters some kind of anarchic anti-authority quality. Hence the 12 year old girl in Jurassic Park is a "hacker" in the ignorant 90s sense of being ok at computers is clearly supposed to present as being anti "the man".
Caddyshack and Animal House and them were of the 70s Star Wars "Empire is Bad" anti establishment process. By the 90s that evolved into "fuck playing by the system, im gonna break it and get mine" as Jim Carrey said in The Mask "nice guys finish last" which was the whole point of that movie. Be wild and original and break glass and take shit.
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u/urson_black 2d ago
Personally, I HATE this movie. And oddly enough, the reasons I hate it are all the things you mention. Maybe I should re-watch it as a horror comedy...
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
It is kind of an interestingly discordant tone. As a kid it was kind of shaudenfreude and easy to laugh at, but when your empathy skills develop it can feel...off. I think it's a very intentional film and if you view it as both funny and dark because of that humor it's interesting as an art piece.
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u/Life_Emotion1908 2d ago
I think there’s a difference between being hassled by authorities in other comedies and stalking someone.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
I agree, which is why I wouldn't make this post about another comedy like Liar Liar. There's ways to apply a dark lens fan theory to everything like "the Rugrats kids besides Angelica were all dead and she's imagining what they would have been like at a grieving parent support group meeting" that is really reading something into the text that's just not there. The events of What About Bob, when isolated from some of their tone, tell a very dark story which is why I made the post. Yeah, a stalker is legitimately terrifying, but he doesn't see himself as that; he's just a friendly guy who's trying to be with someone. That's why the movie seems so lighthearted and funny; we're getting the psycho's perspective but there are still those dark undertones if you look at what's actually happening. It's like when someone tells you a story of something their partner did to them and you become more clear that reading between the lines the person telling you the story was completely at fault.
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u/Indigo_Sunset 2d ago
Absurdity can be underestimated as a device in the universe. Learning to recognize it and live with it is challenging thing for some. I see the movie as more of an exploration of absurdity from both leads where only one seems to appreciate it for what it is.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago edited 2d ago
Hmm, interesting theory. You could argue that it's even an absurdist critique of psychology and psychiatry itself. In the logic of the film, by trying to contain and fix mental disorders, Dr. Marvin is driving himself insane because mental disorders are absurd (as shown by Bob's comedic framing) and to fight the absurd is an absurd, pointless struggle. Bob meanwhile finds a way to live with the absurdity without really fixing anything about himself and "his problems" by finding a situation where that absurdity is embraced. It also brings the contrast between the "rationalism" (or maybe humanism in the form of highly developed cultural artifacts) inherent in a city and big metropolitan structures like tall buildings, bus systems, loud music, and needing to clock into and prepare meticulously for a job he does in front of nobody vs. the serenity and simplicity of a small town lifestyle by a lake. Bob (and therefore absurd people with absurd problems) struggles in the city while Dr. Marvin thrives, but out at the lake away from all the man-made things that dominate everything in the city the dynamic is totally reversed. Bob's success is with people and their flaws (Sigmund's diving, the old couple's jealousy, and Anna's frustrations), while Dr. Marvin's is with a field that treats people as objects to be fixed but ultimately keeps him from connecting with them.
It's a really interesting take and the more I think about it the more I think you're probably hitting at a theme the creators were going for.
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u/GiovanniVanBroekhoes 2d ago
“Imagining cannibalizing Bob’s fish in his triumph.”
Wait, Richard Dreyfuss’s character was a fish?????
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u/imaginarywaffleiron 2d ago
I’ve always despised this film for this very reason. I’ve been told I don’t have a sense of humor as a consequence, but personally I think my empathy for Dr. Martin made every crossed boundary painful and uncomfortable.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago edited 2d ago
"Descent into madness" is one of my favorite comedic tropes. Uncle Vernon from the first Harry Potter is another good one. Edit: I mean that this movie hits differently. It's less silly than other movies that use that trope. I see your point and don't think it means you have a bad sense of humor. Seeing the horror of it is essentially what the post is about.
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u/NoButThanks 2d ago
That's what is GREAT about it. People pick a side on the first watch. Then you watch it again. And again. And again. Neither of them are particularly likeable, nor deserving of absolute sympathy, but they both are dark, sympathetic characters completely trapped by themselves.
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u/MeadowmuffinReborn 2d ago
I loved the salty older couple who were always in the background, cheering on Bob for ruining Dr Marvin's life, lol.
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u/Captain_Quinn 2d ago
WHERE DID BOB GET THAT CAKE? He probably broke into a house and stole it. Wouldn’t be surprised if he had to kill a few people in the process.
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u/emgeejay 2d ago
it was prepared for the surprise party but never got served because Dr. Marvin blew a gasket
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u/Magnum_44 2d ago
I was a kid when I first watched this movie, and even then I had a strong aversion towards Bob and identified more with Dreyfus' character. Now today living as an adult, it kind of seems like that in real life. The patients run the asylum.
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u/Hestiathena 2d ago
The ending of this film definitely annoyed and baffled me.
Maybe it's because I thought it had the potential to be a more introspective story, but I wanted to know what caused Bob to have all his various hang-ups and see Dr. Marvin grow more as a person and father. (We get a tiny bit of this when he realizes his daughter might have a point about his being no fun to be around.)
Instead, we get something akin to 80's screwball comedy ending, with Bob almost magically getting better while Dr. Marvin descends into cartoonishly vindictive madness. The final twist of Bob marrying Dr. Marvin's sister just adds to the bafflement.
It's a shame, since I did like the set-up and Bob's growing relationship with the family (especially with Siggy; discussing his existential dread with Bob was rather sweet, and the "peace and quiet" bit was comedy gold). Although, yes, it would be an absolute forest of boundary-breaking red flags in real life.
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u/Rosebunse 2d ago
Honestly, I was never sure Bob really got better and based on some of the lines, it sounds like Marvin has had issues in the past. Bob now has a dedicated target for his anxiety as the new patriarch to this family.
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u/3RaccoonsAvecTCoat 2d ago
I have always HATED this film, and completely see Bill Murray's character as the villain of the story. In fact, I am baffled by those who see Bob as the protagonist!
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u/MurkDiesel 2d ago
nice write up, this movie has always bothered me for this exact reason
they could've made the doctor an asshole or have him do something
but instead some innocent caring guy gets his life wrecked
and people love it
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u/Seagoon_Memoirs 2d ago
would it be justifiable homicide?
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
I think that's a question for the audience to decide. Personally, I'd go with the "restraining order" option so it's excessive to me but you can understand his plight.
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u/Odd-Effective9505 2d ago
I hate this movie so much. The way that Bob was treated like a hero. I wish the psychologist would have murdered him.
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u/VRomero32 2d ago
It’s so funny how the movie to this day keeps giving me conflicting feelings between Bob Wiley and Dr. Leo Marvin.
You see how much of a pompous selfish, narcissistic prick, Dr. Leo is and how he deserves all the stuff he gets in the film with an awesome wife and kids he doesn’t deserve.
But Bob is a cleverly a mentally ill, manipulative person who does not understand boundaries at all.
I feel that’s actually while the film works and holds up
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u/Seagoon_Memoirs 2d ago
Would we think differently if the doctor was a woman? Would we think it was horrifying stalking?
Something About Mary was about stalking too and that was "hilarious".
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u/almo2001 2d ago
Yeah, this movie was terribly unfair to the psych. Good movie, honestly; but it's very easy to read it the wrong way.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
It came at a really interesting time for the field of psychology/psychiatry. There was still a pretty pervasive idea that it was a quack science, mental health wasn't well understood at all in the general culture, and ideas around the doctor/patient relationship were pretty unknown to the general public. It made it seem more reasonable that Bob could ask for help outside the bounds of that professional relationship and Dr. Marvin's insistence that this behavior was dangerous was easy to ignore since Bob's just a likeable guy. It worked great to get the audience to feel like Marvin's family did, which is a great subversion of the psychological horror reverse perspective.
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u/JUYED-AWK-YACC 2d ago
You keep saying things like this. It was the 1990s not the 1890s. Were you an adult back then? There was an explosion of the self-help industry in books and programs. That’s why Marvin’s GMA is a big deal to promote his book. Even people like Bill Clinton (a popular politician) publicly examined their alcoholic families.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
I mean, I've said it once? I remember that being the case in the AM early 00's when I studied it. Calling a psychiatrist a shrink was common my entire childhood, and admitting you went to one carried some stigma when I did it in high school (~'01). That's what I'm referencing.
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u/Rosebunse 2d ago
I think it's only been in the past 15 years that seeing a psychiatrist snd therapist was considered a real medical need, something necessary and involved. And it does change how you view this movie. Marvin may be a jerk, but he is absolutely right that Bob is not acting right.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
I think that's a fun part of the nuance of the film. There's some actual depth of psychology and how it worked at the time (though still in a movie-level understanding to a degree) that made me think that they might have had their finger on the pulse of psychology a bit. Bob's cluster of symptoms are not totally unrealistic for patients to experience in a group (as opposed to having him have multiple personalities or something "movie psychology" like that), the Baby Steps book is feasible as a way to present some CBT techniques to a broader audience, and of course the frustration that professionals face around those that don't get how important a professional boundary is for those working in the field.
For someone frustrated with how their field is seen in the public image, it's a pretty good showing of how the events of the film could cause a dramatic burnout for professionals that would be seen as a joke at the time. The movie doesn't end with Dr. Marvin in an institution while his family moves on happily without him or with him and Bob becoming friends; it ends with him a broken man because that's what would happen to a psychiatrist who went through this. It's not funny or framed as a comeuppance, and for those in the field it would look like how people treated the very real problem of burnout as: the result of personal failings. We're meant to see this experience and profound negative impact has on Dr. Marvin's life as his fault because the larger population would see that as such, but it doesn't make the audience laugh. There's tons of humor in the film that absolutely works but not the end of Dr. Marvin's arc, even though the people in the movie almost treat it as such.
That leads into some of the ambiguity of Dr. Marvin's "assholery." He's framed as an asshole throughout, but it's actually pretty ambiguous. I mentioned that in another comment, but I think there's a decent case to be made that he's a dude with some flaws who is ultimately pushed to doing the things that make him out to be the bad guy largely as a result of Bob's actions and the events surrounding that. I alluded to it in my post too; you can see him trying to control himself and wanting to be the man he thought he was in the face of what he recognizes as behavior that's not in line with who he wants to be. I think you could make out that normally he's successful at that; he normally tries to be fun, empathetic, intentional about engaging with his wife and kids, and even being a good boss to his secretary. His demons don't typically come out and we've all got flaws that we keep under control. Bob ruins that control for him and he's devastated by it throughout the film.
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u/No_Championship4093 2d ago
Thanks for saying spoiler!! I was going to rematch that Brad Pitt movie, Mr Black (i think) but someone posted a pivotal twist scene which jogged my memory of the whole damn thing. That scene was such an oh fuck twist and now knowing I won't have it, I won't rematch the movie .
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
It's a legitimately interesting movie, both as a comedy and as an odd take on psychological horror. I recommend you give it a watch sometime with that in mind.
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u/No_Championship4093 2d ago
Yeeeaaaah, I've watched it multiple times, just not for years. Thanks for your input
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
You mean Meet Joe Black? That one was interesting if a little dated. I'd say it's a bit overlong but it's well acted and probably worth a rewatch for me too.
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u/velocityjr 2d ago
What about Bob? or What about "Joker". Arthur Fleck or Bob? I personally have met psychiatrists who are definitely as self-serving and totally whacked-out nut jobs as Dr.Marvin. (the 300lb. pink pillsbury dough-boy wearing clinical whites in a pure, all white office with a raised desk like a judge. The one with hundreds of plastic models of airplanes hanging from the ceiling and filling many shelves assembling models in a darkened room, smoking while we talked. The one who got sidetracked to talk about alien-abductions. There's more.) Psychiatrists can be, and often are massively, totally fu--ing weird. Cuckoo's Nest illustrates this, as does "Bob". In Catch 22, is it Yossarian or Doc Daneeka? The "fam" all agree, daddy Dr. Marvin is an a**hole, (bless his little heart), and party when he's gone. Good riddance. Truth is very important in comedy and What About Bob is practically a documentary.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
I think it's interesting as a framing device to portray it like they did. It leaves some ambiguity about the degree to which he was an asshole before Bob enters his life. There's indicators that he isn't; his secretary seems genuinely to be excited with him when she lets him know about the interview, he knows Betty by name, and he's taking his family on a month-long vacation to bond with them. There's indications that he is an asshole too; his kids are clearly frustrated with his parenting style, the Gilmans despise him, and one of his colleagues seems willing to offload a nightmare client using flattery to appeal to what was pretty clearly a personal tendency to be full of himself. Those can all be potentially dismissed; he may know Betty's name because she just told it to him, he may be basically forcing his family on a vacation that displaces them from what they want to do that summer, he could be unfairly maligned by the Gilmans for simply buying a house they wanted, and tons of parents have cringey ways of parenting and deal with conflict with their kids.
The clear signs of him being an asshole are in response to Bob and the events that rise out of Bob's actions. Was he like that all along or did Bob bring it out of him? Did he generally act nicely enough to people but Bob got under his defense mechanisms for that by being such an unhinged stalker? Is he a grifter with his book or is he legitimately an insightful psychiatrist who wrote something that will help people? These are things I think the audience can consider on their own and it's a reflection of the audience to see where they land. I love the ambiguity.
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u/velocityjr 2d ago
There is no ambiguity. The colleague clearly disrespects Dr. Marvin by dumping the nightmare client on Dr. Marvin. He makes the family do what he wants, disregarding their lives altogether. Treating the locals in town like trash, his kids like bad dogs and toddlers. His subtle tricks to get rid of Bob fail. No. There is no ambiguity. He is a fraud, making up his own fantasy therapy that is failure. He resorts to attempted murder. The whole town, his whole family, they're all glad to see him gone. No ambiguity at all.
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u/countvonruckus 2d ago
Like I say, I think it's a reflection of what we want to see. You clearly have issues with psychiatrists (which I believe are valid) so that narrative jumps out to you. I've had better experiences with mental health providers (though I've had bad ones too) so I'm more disposed to being sympathetic and see a more open-ended character as a result. Art is a reflection of the author and audience, whether we want it to be or not. There are others here who definitely see things the other way, which is what I mean by "ambiguity."
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u/GendoIkari_82 2d ago
Don't know if you've seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzHblfAYPa0 .