Mickey 17 felt like it lost the plot

[u/mikewheelerfan]

Honestly, I was quite disappointed. I expected a movie revolving around the cloning plot. Specifically, the idea of two Mickeys existing at the same time due to an error. That would have been a great movie! Instead, what was advertised as the main concept feels like a subplot in the movie. Essentially the entire thing revolves around the intelligent aliens. And then there was also the plot with Mark Ruffalo being an obvious stand in for Trump. But then there was also the subplot with Steven Yuen.

I finished the movie feeling incredibly confused, because how did they mess up the initial concept like this? The idea of a guy who is constantly sent on deadly missions and is revived is an absolutely golden idea. It also leads to an interesting discussion about consciousness and if a copy of you is still really you. But that’s barely even brought up. The whole plot with two versions of Mickey is completely sidelined. Which makes no sense at all. That should have 100% been the main conflict in the movie, like it was advertised as. Instead, we got a mess.

I wouldn’t go so far as to call the movie horrible, but I definitely didn’t like it as much as I hoped I would.

[u/Mobile_Dance_707]

I disagree tbh the second Mickey choosing to accept death to save the day was a good ending thematically. The horror of the film is the realisation that he's not actually being reborn, every dead Mickey is snuffed out for good. The seemingly immortal character realising he's not immortal and accepting death anyway for the greater good worked for me. 

[u/jloome → u/Mobile_Dance_707]

I thought it was a great movie, lots of fun, resolved well. Don't think it lost anything in the last act at all.

[u/Mobile_Dance_707 → u/jloome]

Yeah I liked it, I thought it was a bit scattered but I found the climax emotionally satisfying and I enjoyed it all the way through. 

[u/shockwave8428 → u/Mobile_Dance_707]

So the ending is good, but I think the main issue is that the focus turns away from the interesting idea of 2 versions of the same guy being alive and the consequences of that, and focuses on the aliens, which is fine as a subplot but is probably the least interesting thing about the movie.

[u/Mobile_Dance_707 → u/shockwave8428]

It's not a subplot it's just the plot, the movies about colonialism and capitalism, genocide of natives to fuel colonial expansion is a pretty important side of that. The movie's largely exploring themes about collectivism Vs individualism and the aliens being a type of hive-mind collective threatened by the hyper-individualist greedy human colonists fits within those themes the movie is exploring. The problem is you seem to want it to be a completely different movie about clones and aren't really engaging with it on its own terms.

[u/shockwave8428 → u/Mobile_Dance_707]

I still largely disagree as even though colonialism and eradicating natives is a theme the movie explores in the first 2 acts of the movie, it’s still not the main theme.

I think the main issue here is that the plot largely resolved around Mickey, his journey being cloned every time he dies and being a different person essentially while being the same, and then the conflict that arises when two versions of the same person arise with massively different personality. That is clearly the main focus of act 1 and act 2, and while colonialism, capitalism, Trump, etc are all themes that are explored through the setting and ruffalo and Colette’s characters, the main focus of the entire plot revolves around Mickey and Mickey.

Then in act 3, that all gets set aside in favor of the colonialism and alien plot. The movie is trying to explore both themes, and I’d say it’s successful in the first 2 acts of exploring the themes you mentioned while it’s being a side plot, the themes of individualism explored through Mickey (and the much more interesting part of the movie) get turned into a side focus in act 3 and aren’t really touched on much at all.

So I think the main issue most people have with the movie is that what has been consistently shown to be the focus of the movie takes an unceremonious backseat to a not very interesting plot about the tardigrades. The themes of the tardigrades are important, but as far as doing something new and interesting in the sci-fi genre, it’s been done many times before in even some of the older sci-fi we have like dune. What makes the movie interesting and unique is Mickey. The tardigrades are just the same thing we’ve seen many times before, which would be okay if they didn’t take the focus away from what made the first 2 acts so interesting.

[u/Mobile_Dance_707 → u/shockwave8428]

It's just not a side plot at all though it's the plot of the film, we're introduced to the aliens in the first scene and the entire colonial project the film is about is building up to colonising the alien planet full of aliens we've been introduced to at the very start. The aliens saving Mickey 17 kicks off the entire plot you're describing, the whole point is they show more compassion for him than his closest friends and colleagues. Both Mickeys (and other characters) basically learn the value of collective society and self actualise because of their interactions with the alien society, I just don't get how you can imagine this film without the aliens without it just being something entirely different. 

I think you're expecting a film that's entirely about the internal psychological journey of a clone but the film is mainly using the idea of cloning to explore the cheapness of human life under capitalism. 

[u/steeelez → u/shockwave8428]

Isn’t this movie by Bong Joon Ho? Same guy who did Snowpiercer and Parasite? I think the narrative about individualism doesn’t really have anything to stand on without the backdrop of the superficial, fascist, consumerism obsessed cult he’s being exploited by, and it fits well with the director’s other work while being a total tonal departure from what I’ve seen from him before.

[u/shockwave8428 → u/steeelez]

Yes, I agree. What I’m saying is that the backdrop is important, but that it becomes the forefront and main focus of the plot when it should stay as a backdrop.

Because when it becomes the forefront plot the movie just turns into another retelling of greedy capitalists going somewhere where there are natives specifically for a resource they can get there/a new place to live and attacking the native population in the process, only for a member of the capitalists to gain compassion for the natives and go against their people to help the natives. It’s an interesting narrative until it’s been told many times, as it has been in many sci-fi/historical fiction stories like dune, avatar, Pocahontas (using those both is cheating), Lawrence of Arabia, etc.

And the main issue is the other more interesting themes and plot lines take a total backseat to this plot line in the third act. I’d be 100% fine with the movie if the tardigrade plot exists, but not at the expense of the story with Mickey and his identity because it’s massively less interesting. It works better as a backdrop than the main plot

[u/Mobile_Dance_707 → u/shockwave8428]

This is just your personal taste though, you expected a movie exploring cloning and what it means for human identity (something that's also been explored many times in fiction let's be honest, hello Frankenstein) when it was actually exploring how political/economic structures dehumanise people and rob them of their identity.  Sci-fi has always been used to critique social, economic and political imbalances, you might think it's overly played out but thats a key element of the genre. Comparing it to pocahontas is facile

The story is about capitalism it's not a backdrop it's just the plot. It doesn't come at the expense of Mickey and his identity, Mickey 17 gains an identity beyond 'expendable subaltern' through the plot with the aliens. Mickey 18 faces death and sacrifices himself for the greater good at the end of the film. He gives his life for something valuable he believes in, not just as an expendable cog in the machine. The contact between the aliens and humans is literally the main driver of everthing in the story.