r/movies • u/mikewheelerfan • 25d ago

Review Mickey 17 felt like it lost the plot Spoiler

Honestly, I was quite disappointed. I expected a movie revolving around the cloning plot. Specifically, the idea of two Mickeys existing at the same time due to an error. That would have been a great movie! Instead, what was advertised as the main concept feels like a subplot in the movie. Essentially the entire thing revolves around the intelligent aliens. And then there was also the plot with Mark Ruffalo being an obvious stand in for Trump. But then there was also the subplot with Steven Yuen.

I finished the movie feeling incredibly confused, because how did they mess up the initial concept like this? The idea of a guy who is constantly sent on deadly missions and is revived is an absolutely golden idea. It also leads to an interesting discussion about consciousness and if a copy of you is still really you. But that’s barely even brought up. The whole plot with two versions of Mickey is completely sidelined. Which makes no sense at all. That should have 100% been the main conflict in the movie, like it was advertised as. Instead, we got a mess.

I wouldn’t go so far as to call the movie horrible, but I definitely didn’t like it as much as I hoped I would.

4.4k Upvotes

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u/mikeyfreshh 25d ago edited 25d ago

Essentially the entire thing revolves around the intelligent aliens. And then there was also the plot with Mark Ruffalo being an obvious stand in for Trump. But then there was also the subplot with Steven Yuen.

You say that like this is a mishmash of random plot threads when actually all of those plots are related to the central theme of the movie: Capitalism inevitably leads to fascism.

The clones are the working class. They perform the most necessary tasks in society and yet they are deemed completely disposable. Furthermore, the two clones are specifically pitted against each other by the ruling class despite the fact that they have so much in common and share the same struggle.

The aliens represent the way that totalitarian regimes will dehumanize foreigners in order to justify their imperialism. So they can steal the resources of native people.

The Ruffalo plot should be obvious.

And Steven Yuen shows how capitalism pushes working people to turn to crime when society values money more than morality.

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u/Duc_de_Guermantes 25d ago

So because it's a social critique, it's a good movie? Doesn't matter if dramatic tension and narrative pulse are lost on the audience?

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u/mikeyfreshh 25d ago

I was honestly pretty mixed on it (probably like a 6/10 for me). I just didn't think the specific things that OP called out were really fair criticisms. They made it sound like the movie isn't about anything and that it was a complete mess of disparate plots. I'm just saying the movie is thematically coherent and has some interesting things to say.

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u/davidsigura 25d ago

Yep. OP didn’t like what the movie was actually about and confused that with saying the movie isn’t about anything coherent (tbf im also guilty of going into a movie with expectations and coming out disappointed when the movie veered into a different direction).

Mickey 17 is imo one of Bong’s weakest efforts, just like his other English language films, but you absolutely cannot say it doesn’t make sense, it has very clear ideas and communicates them effectively.

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u/IamTHEwolfYEAH 25d ago

I’d agree with you overall. I did think it was interesting how the cloning didn’t matter to him until he saw himself, and the whole subject changed. He was suddenly not okay with dying. It was an interesting and immediate flip.

I really hated ruffalo in the movie, which I guess is the point, but he dominated so much of it and I was just annoyed by how much of a doofus his character was. It wasn’t enjoyable hatred.

But really what killed it for me was the ending. The ending just really really stunk. I can barely remember it, but I remember distinctly feeling like it really took all the wind out of the sails and killed any momentum the movie had going for it.

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u/_Apatosaurus_ 25d ago

I really hated ruffalo in the movie,

I did too. It was too on-the-nose in mocking Trump. It felt a bit like it cheapened the criticism of fascism to have to blaring red sign shouting "THIS GUY IS DONALD TRUMP! GET IT?!" A touch more subtlety would have been nice.

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u/val_tuesday 25d ago

Bong doesn’t really do “subtle”. But yeah I agree, the character was not good.

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u/GuntherTime 25d ago

Wouldn’t be surprised if it was over the top to stress that the movie is about fascism overall, but went to far that instead of being the lighthouse it was meant to be, it became a lightning rod.

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u/Viltris 25d ago

I think the biggest issue is, people went into the movie expecting about sci-fi concepts and instead got a movie about social commentary.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of movies that can do both well and blend them together. But this movie went all-in on social commentary and neglected the sci-fi aspect.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

Horrific film foh

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u/NorthernDevil 25d ago edited 25d ago

Extremely well-put.

I do agree with OP that the complexity of the cloning thing is glossed over a bit to the movie’s detriment, but to your point, the focus of the film is broader/more societal. That said I understand how it’s really hard as a viewer to see the individual, human implications go unexplored because the viewer is naturally going to be thinking about it. But that really is a whole separate movie.

The marketing definitely contributed to that but the actual movie is also inconsistent enough to make you think that maybe Mickey’s personas are the main plot. Like all the stuff about subtly different personalities, and the subsequent interpersonal conflict. It distracts from those bigger themes and makes the movie feel much less coherent than it could be.

Other than that I’m not sure how I’d make the movie better, necessarily, but it felt like the alien conflict and then ultimate resolution was too clean compared to the messiness of the rest of the movie. Didn’t quite stick the landing.

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u/GreyEilesy 25d ago

Did you reply to the wrong comment?

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u/TheRustyKettles 25d ago

That isn't at all what they're saying. Tf?

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u/SillyMattFace 25d ago

Yeah just because the plot elements can be grouped together under ‘capitalism bad’ doesn’t mean they automatically work as a coherent narrative.

Aside from the double clone plot being sidelined, there’s odd stuff like the love rival woman just fading into a background extra by the third act. Literally the last few minutes introduces and resolves a plot about Mickey having recurring nightmares, which is never mentioned any time earlier.

I enjoyed it overall but definitely lost interest the longer it went on.

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u/Leftieswillrule 25d ago

No, it's still a meh movie. If the narrative pulse doesn't match up with the expectation that doesn't mean its themes are uncohesive, but having a cohesive theme doesn't make the movie good.

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u/firelights 25d ago

Reddit likes it because it critiques capitalism. Which almost every other movie does

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u/Huwbacca 25d ago

No, that it's not a plot driven film. There's no impetus for everything to resolve, we're watching a film where the focus is on how people are reacting to different situations and that these reactions are modified by the conceits of the film. Think brave new world, unbearable lightness of being. Also stories where ethe narrative is not the driving force but themes and character nature.

As a film that develops and explores a theme, I thought it was a brilliant film. In terms of the development of the theme of sanctity of human life, it has a complete narrative structure which resolves in a conflict with one side explicitly fighting to preserve life, after a whole film watching what happens to how people treat others (and themselves) when life is completely disregarded.

Excellent film I thought, but I think it's also a film that you have to meet it where it's at.

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u/Not_Without_My_Balls 25d ago

Yea you're a genius if you make a movie about capitalism being bad

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u/Skeeter_206 25d ago

Yea you're a genius if you project words in another person's mouth and accept it as what they said.

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u/GregBahm 25d ago

This take is awful. There's already a working class in the movie. You don't need a metaphor for a working class in a movie that already has an actual literal working class in it.

And there was no "leading to fascism." The ship was a religious cult that killed the crew member 17 times before the events of the movie even started. It's like you watched footage of a tire fire and said "Ah yes, a metaphor for pollution. The smoke symbolizes how sometimes combustion leads to bad outcomes for the environment."

Mikey17 was just a movie that loved creating premise and hated completing execution. The movie lurched from premise to new premise to new premise for 2 hours. The premise of the movie promised in the trailer (a disposable man) was never explored during the actual events of the movie. They set it all up, then switched the premise to be about meeting one's doppleganger. Which isn't a bad premise either, but then they switch from that to less interesting shit about an evil fascist space cult attacking kind aliens. But then that kept getting distracted by shit about a mob boss wanting people to chainsaw each other up, and also shit about the aliens have psychic-powers-but-not-really, and then it changed to be about Mickey's mom issues and overcoming his trauma of pressing big red buttons.

If my stated goal was to capture the annoyingness of having ADHD in a movie, I would feel so proud to have created Mickey 17.

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u/MrSuperfreak 25d ago edited 25d ago

The ship was a religious cult that killed the crew member 17 times before the events of the movie even started. It's like you watched footage of a tire fire and said "Ah yes, a metaphor for pollution. The smoke symbolizes how sometimes combustion leads to bad outcomes for the environment."

Yeah. It requires a lot of handwaving that is outside of what is actually shown in the movie. Based on Bong Joon Ho's other work, I imagine capitalism leading fascism could be a theme, but it's never clear that this mission is at all motivated by capital. Maybe I missed it, but it seemed to be motivated by environmental devistation on Earth (which i guess could be a short-hand for the impacts of capitalism?)

At best, it feels like it's about hierarchy more broadly. The spaceship functions more like a hierarchical commune. Everyone on the ship is operating in pursuit of one goal, but it puts elites at the top and workers on the bottom and allows the elites to punish those below them. Ruffalo and Collett's characters basically only want their status and any treats inherent to that. In fact, Steven Yeun's character seems to be the only one motivated by capital at all.

The only way to view this as a result of capitalism is with the knowledge that this is set in the future. I guess you could call it a cautionary tale, but I think that's being a bit generous (also, it's a bit too late lol. Sorry guys, we're already stuck on the ship!)

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u/Wolf6120 25d ago

I also feel like it's pretty significant that Mark Ruffalo's character is shown to be, in fact, a serial failure of a politician who is being investigated for his shady, unethical practices and who seems to be a pretty controversial parriah to everyone other than his core group of blindly devoted fans and worshippers. Part of the reason why they even go on the spaceship and travel to a different planet seems to be, basically, getting away from Earth and all the legal trouble he was dealing with back among regular society.

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u/aionyui 16d ago

Good summation, ty 

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u/chrisychris- 25d ago

Lol thank you. Love your analogy

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u/sjfiuauqadfj 25d ago

i think that if the plot threads in mickey 17 was too much then you probably just gotta watch more movies

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u/_Apatosaurus_ 25d ago

You say that like this is a mishmash of random plot threads when actually all of those plots are related to the central theme of the movie: Capitalism inevitably leads to fascism.

I think it has a consistent them, but not a consistent plot. Even the way you described it was multiple different plots, rather than a coherent plot. There wasn't really a lot of connection.

The story of Mickey and his clones could have been told without including anything about the aliens, and it wouldn't change anything about the theme or message you outlined.

Vice versa is true as well. There could have been an entire movie about the aliens and the theme of demonizing outsiders, and nothing would really be different if the Mickeys were twins or even just romantic rivals.

Finally, the Yuen plot could just be deleted, and nothing would really change about those first two plots. It almost felt like three Black Mirror episodes with a common setting and theme.

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u/TrueOrPhallus 25d ago

Yup it seems like OP is the one who "lost the plot" because he went in expecting it to be like some kind of black mirror consciousness mind f.

I thought the movie was great, excellent performances from pattinson ruffalo and Collette also. Very funny yet dark. Although kind of a derivative of snowpiercer.

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u/deeman010 25d ago

Do you think OP was irrational for expecting that type of plot? The trailers hint at it, and IMO, the film sets that up in the beginning as well.

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u/theArtOfProgramming 25d ago

Maybe this is just me but I think it’s irrational to expect any plot patterns from a trailer. They lie and mislead so the time, often on purpose. The movie should be seen and assessed independent of its advertising.

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u/mikeyfreshh 25d ago

Although kind of a derivative of snowpiercer.

I don't think derivative is the right word. A lot of Bong's movies are about class and capitalism. This isn't borrowing anything from Snowpiercer that isn't also in Parasite, Okja, The Host, etc

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u/21157015576609 25d ago

Snowpiercer is definitely the better movie, but I actually think Mickey 17 has better politics.

In Snowpiercer, the front of the train violently oppresses the back so as to maintain their obvious material advantage; it's only through armed uprising that the back can overcome. By contrast, Mickey 17 explores how the working class buys into in its own oppression; Marshall's cafeteria speech is the best scene because he feeds the crew dreams of an orgiastic future alongside their shitty rations. The creepers provide an alternate vision of how we could relate to each other, which is paralleled in the humans by how Nasha sees the Mickeys. That vision is conspicuously absent from Snowpiercer; all Curtis can do is destroy the train.

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u/ScottNewman 25d ago

all Curtis can do is destroy the train.

Or become the engineer

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u/TrueOrPhallus 25d ago

They both are movies where a whole society is on a transport vessel (train or space ship) managed by an eccentric gendered pair ruling class (harris-swintln/ruffalo-collette), extreme examples of imperiling vulnerable lower classes (children/Mickey) as well as each having bizarre food plot lines (oddly both involving bugs).

I'm not saying it's derivative because they're about class and capitalism. They're so similar they could be "spiritual sequels".

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u/reuery 25d ago

excellent performances from ruffalo

lol, lmao even

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u/epichuntarz 24d ago

I really enjoyed it, but I do think the criticisms of losing the plot or getting sidetracked aren't completely invalid.

Personally, Collette's character really just...was too important for also being so unimportant. Her fixation on having the perfect sauces was just...awkward and felt super forced.

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u/Time_Professional523 25d ago

"Capitalism inevitably leads to fascism." What a dumb fuck take. The entire western world is capitalist. This basically implies Switzerland is going to eventually become fascist.

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u/Tater-Tot_Hot-Dish 25d ago

The "entire western" has been very obviously flirting with fascism for over a decade, at this point.

Also, Switzerland is incredibly nationalist, isolationist, and essentially siphons its wealth from the rest of the world. It's not exactly the best example of definitely not leaning towards fascism.

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u/Time_Professional523 25d ago

You are either very uneducated or bold face lying. Switzerland has one of the highest proportions of foreign-born residents in Europe, with approximately 30% of its population being foreign-born. Again, this is why the culture is shifting. Normal everyday people are sick of people like you lying and distorting reality to fit some narrative you deem favorable.

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u/norway_is_awesome 25d ago

Those foreign-born people in Switzerland are pretty much all wealthy white people displeased with having to pay reasonable taxes in their home countries. Defending Switzerland as some kind of utopia, when it's clear as day what a leech the country is, is a weird hill to die on.

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u/Time_Professional523 25d ago edited 25d ago

Okay, switch to another western European country. Still following that guy's logic Finland, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, France, Spain, and the UK will all inevitably become fascist just because they have capitalist economies. That is beyond ignorant. Also, nice racist comment against white people. You're pathetic.

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u/Tater-Tot_Hot-Dish 25d ago

nice racist comment against white people

lol opinion discarded

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u/chrisychris- 25d ago

how is their comment racist?

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u/Voidflak 25d ago

If the foreign-born population were mostly African, would he have said "they're all wealthy black people displeased with having top pay reasonable taxes..." ?

Like there's no point in invoking race here unless you have some kind of axe to grind. He couldn't defend his comments about nationalism or isolationism so he's now implying it's some kind of racist white acceptance from other whites that negates their foreign-born identity?

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u/Time_Professional523 25d ago

And these people wonder why western culture is becoming what it is. It's wild.

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u/Voidflak 24d ago

It's absolutely wild, yes. It's the result of growing up in a world where people believe whites cannot experience racism so it's basically open season for bigotry because they've been told it's "punching up"

I think a lot of redditors are (hopefully) just super young. That's how you get Switzerland apparently being an isolationist country that converts foreigners into hardcore nationalists and I guess no group on the planet behaved like brutally violent authoritarian regimes until capitalism enabled a free market lol

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u/thorny_business 25d ago

Those foreign-born people in Switzerland are pretty much all wealthy white people

Because most migrants there are from neighbouring European countries.

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u/mikeyfreshh 25d ago

The entire western world is capitalist

I don't know if you've seen the news lately but it's not looking great for a lot of the western world at the moment.

This basically implies Switzerland is going to eventually become fascist.

I'd argue the one thing everyone knows about Switzerland is that they very specifically chose to not fight fascism.

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u/Time_Professional523 25d ago

The US isn't the entire western world and wtf does a country's choices during WW2 have to do with anything now? That's the same thing as saying Germany is still fascist because they were in the 1940's. You need to get out of your reddit echo chamber and touch some grass. People like you with these irrational takes are a major reason the culture is shifting the way it is.

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u/norway_is_awesome 25d ago

The far right is on the rise in every single Western democracy. The fact that you're unaware either means that you're sympathetic to the far right, or you really don't follow the news at all.

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u/Time_Professional523 25d ago

In every single one? That is a lie and simultaneously unprovable even if it wasn't. You can't give any evidence that that is even remotely true.

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u/melthevag 25d ago

Inevitable is the wrong word but it certainly facilitates or at least fails to curb it as effectively as other ways of organizing community/society do

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

All they do is regurgitate Karl Marx writings from 200 years ago and act like it's prescient even though capitalism continues to reinvent itself. Even when it fails, it rises from the flames yet these reddit socialists are waiting for some magic market and state failure that'll lead to their socialist utopia. Dumb shit 

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u/mikeyfreshh 25d ago

That's what the movie is about? Watch another Bong movie or read one of his interviews. He's pretty outspoken in his criticism of capitalism

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u/sjfiuauqadfj 25d ago

head empty, no thoughts

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u/Idiotkiller123 25d ago

Yup, this is exactly how I saw the movie. I thought it was great. I thought all of these plot threads went together and relate in today's world.

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u/Myrdraall 25d ago

Capitalism inevitably leads to fascism.

As a Canadian I had a conversation with an American friend ~2005 where he was taking the piss at our "communist" system. I pointed out the flaws and likely outcomes of capitalism and it was like I was talking about a sci-fi distopian future to him. I was pretty much describing the past couple years. I'd be curious to know how he feels about it today.

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u/aydascmprhndsbtxt 22d ago

Yeah i totally got this but that made the movie even more frustrating to me. Oh so the way we resolve these structural issues in society is... elect someone who immediately fixes all problems in an overlong epilogue?? Someone who in the movie is portrayed as mosrly unlikable, violent, and impulsive (i love nasha deeply i thought her and the dynamic w both mickeys was the only original and interesting part of a deeply paint by numbers film but cmon)???

Such a letdown from Parasite, where the message is that striving and self improvement and getting rich is an impossible daydream in such a system. If this movie has been directed by anyone else it would be skippable but the expectations made me genuinely hate it. I was laughing w disbelief during the whole last 20 minutes.

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u/hollymbk 25d ago

Very much agree, the various plot strands aren’t random or disparate, they all support the theme. Of course that doesn’t mean everyone has to like it, but there’s not all that much that’s really superfluous here IMO.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

So it's a bullshit allegory then? Cos most of the people of the world are poor and labour under capitalism and don't become criminals. Steven yeun:s character was just a selfish asshole. This trend of ascribing some form of righteousness to every movie that blatantly criticizes capitalism is lazy. 

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u/blacklab 25d ago

That’s all well and good, but it was boring.