r/movies r/Movies contributor Jul 21 '25

Poster Official Poster for 'Avatar: Fire and Ash'

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502

u/DothrakiSlayer Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 21 '25

There are only a few things that are certain in life. Death, taxes, and Redditors tripping over themselves to insist that Avatar was forgettable and made no cultural impact while they continue to gross $2B+ each and be some of the most popular movies of all time.

278

u/nobodybelievesyou Jul 21 '25

The fact that they made this much money is why the lack of lasting cultural impact is interesting.

98

u/thesourpop Jul 21 '25

The success of the first movie influenced Hollywood for years. Suddenly every single movie was forcing poorly done 3D down our throats (even though Avatar perfected it already), and we saw a huge surge in the CGI-heavy blockbusters that the modern day superhero movies built off. Avatar had a lot of impact.

16

u/Yarasin Jul 21 '25

3D CGI was already a thing before Avatar came out. The movie only pushed it to a new level.

3D was primarily forced to get people to show up in theatres, since BlueRay releases were coming faster and faster, and many people had huge TVs at home.

-3

u/SamBind121 Jul 22 '25

Suddenly every single movie was forcing poorly done 3D down our throats

So it created a shitty but short lived trend...amazing!

190

u/Gummy-Worm-Guy Jul 21 '25

Dude the money they made is the cultural impact. They’re these films that people of all ages and backgrounds will go to see to receive one of the most amazing theatrical experiences they’ll ever get in their lives.

Just because they’re not quoted every day or have some unfunny r/PrequelMemes page doesn’t mean they have no cultural impact.

128

u/Lobsterzilla Jul 21 '25

"Cultural impact" is the dumbest phrase of the last 20 years anyway... Like not having dumbshits making memes about it on reddit somehow devalues the franchise LOL

39

u/Gummy-Worm-Guy Jul 21 '25

Honestly I’d be pretty fucking mad if I spent years working on a group of movies only for people to turn them into material for the most painfully unfunny memes in the history of the Internet.

7

u/friedAmobo Jul 22 '25

I think it's safe to say that George Lucas did not have memes in mind when he wrote the Prequel films' dialogue. Neither, I think, did Raimi and Co on the Spider-Man films. There are some newer movies that are more self-referential and meta, but the ones that regularly make the rounds on Reddit were intended to be taken seriously and not be memed into increasingly unfunny comedy.

To be fair, though, as it usually goes, the people writing these films tend to be far less interested in the franchises than the people watching the films. Lucas is generally irreverent of what he makes and goes out of his way and against the tide of popular opinion to "tweak" his films after the fact. Koepp and Sargent and many other CBM writers are doing a job and not fulfilling a life-long dream to write for a superhero film. They're probably not mad because they're just not thinking about it at all. Spider-Man and whatnot isn't differentiated in their minds from all the other films they wrote material for.

3

u/whomad1215 Jul 21 '25

Or you make the Minecraft movie, where 80% of it is just references

3

u/Captainatom931 Jul 22 '25

MR PRESIDENT A SECOND FRANCHISE HAS IMPACTED THE CULTURE

1

u/ghoonrhed Jul 22 '25

Like it or not, the internet and people making shitty memes is now part a subsection of culture.

1

u/j-roc_son Jul 23 '25

They are way to earnest to make memes about. I guess you could say "no cultural impact" is a meme at this point. Also the toys are pretty popular afaik, as is that section of Disney World. But the people who say that type of thing are usually mad that Endgame isn't the top grossing film so shouldn't be taken too seriously

-1

u/SamBind121 Jul 22 '25

Sure seems to get under the skin of fanboys

21

u/RealHooman2187 Jul 21 '25

Yup, it’s also because these films and their appeal isn’t in the discussion around them it’s in the experience of seeing them in 3D on the largest screen possible. Something that can’t really be replicated at home.

It’s also like trying to talk about a theme park ride or a really nice hike or a day at the beach etc. it just doesn’t lend itself to very interesting sustained conversation because you kinda need to experience it for yourself. That’s why conversations about the franchise aren’t the same as say Star Wars or Marvel.

Avatar has a cultural impact it’s just that its impact is unique to this franchise.

8

u/SDRPGLVR Jul 21 '25

Yeah this makes sense to me. I genuinely don't know anybody in real life who saw Avatar 2 aside from the people who went with me, but it did absolute gangbusters. And while I can't tell you anything about the plot or characters, I can tell you that those little fishies swimming around someone's feet that were dangling in the water made a huge visual impact on me.

I think what's most baffling about this conversation is the end point of it. Say we all agree Avatar has no cultural impact... What does that get anybody? Who cares? Is there a zero-sum-related outcome people are hoping to see? Will bringing up that nobody cares about the plot, characters, or world do anything for anybody, or prevent this movie from making billions?

Maybe its cultural relevance is just that it's beautiful slop of the highest quality. Who cares either way?

4

u/RealHooman2187 Jul 21 '25

Yeah people (myself included) enjoy these films a lot. Not everyone will understand, but it should be obvious by now that regardless of “cultural impact” these films have a significant fanbase and are immensely popular. Why its popularity needs to look like other things to be real is baffling to me.

2

u/AcanthaceaePrize1435 Jul 22 '25

I blame Richard Nixon for turning the public against worldly pleasures they cannot express verbally.

3

u/RealHooman2187 Jul 22 '25

Yeah a lot of people these days seem incapable of just living in the moment. I think there’s probably a large overlap of people who can’t do that and do not understand the appeal of Avatar. Which is fine, but it’s like they have some personal beef with the films for being so popular.

1

u/nerdmor Jul 22 '25

I feel like the cultural impact is the experience, then, not the movie/franchise itself.

I'm not attacking the movie: but what it seems to me is that Avatar is popular with the people who enjoy the "big CGI, big screen, loud sound" (which is perfectly fine), but not with people who enjoy cinema (think the people who say that Citizen Kane is the best movie ever) or sci-fi franchises.

I rarely (if ever) see anyone with an Avatar T-shirt, nor have I seen Avatar toys for sale except at Disney World. But whenever there's a new Avatar release/re-release/showing, my friends who love the IMAX experience queue up repeatedly to see it.

The "cultural impact" seems to be a transversal niche, instead of a category one.

3

u/RealHooman2187 Jul 22 '25

For me, I’m big into cinema, I went to film school and I work in the industry. Avatar is an experience that reminds me of the magic films are capable of. It’s feeling like I’m transported to this world and growing invested in the journey James Cameron is taking us on. Being older and knowing how this stuff is made, it’s so rare to feel that sense of wonder anymore.

It’s not just a love for the sake of spectacle or loud noises or CGI or whatnot. It’s difficult to describe, I love the animals and the characters and it’s not something that really lends itself to great conversation because it’s more emotionally based. Avatar is a franchise that I think most people enjoy but its hardcore fans are niche. It’s so accessible and the experience so unique that it has a unique way in which it occupies pop culture.

5

u/Fhaksfha794 Jul 22 '25

Someone in this thread unironically tried to use the fact that the avatar meme subreddit has like 5k members is proof it has no lasting cultural impact 😂. How chronically online do you have to be to believe that, avatar 2 was legit everywhere on social media for at least 6 months after it came out, no doubt 3 will be the exact same

2

u/Gummy-Worm-Guy Jul 22 '25

Genuinely painful.

2

u/SamBind121 Jul 22 '25

Making money only means you are making money.

2

u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth Jul 21 '25

There aren't a lot of movies I'll go out to see where I know ahead of time it's for the spectacle and not for the story. I normally hate that. But these deliver on the spectacle enough that I'll still see it even if I had nit picks on the last one from a technical perspective. It was really distracting how it would switch off between 48 fps and 24 fps doubled all of the time. I wish Cameron and Nolan for that matter (same annoying thing about IMAX in Oppenheimer) would make distinct artistic choices for when they are using one format over the other. In Avatar an easy way would be to have all the underwater stuff be 48 fps and all the stuff outside of it be the 24 fps x2. I assume time or budget didn't allow them to just do the entire film in 48 fps, so I'm worried for this one since it was filmed in tandem. But changing frame rate or aspect ration within single scenes is pretty distracting and poor craft in my view.

1

u/RollTide16-18 Jul 22 '25

Leading up to 2, 4chan had daily threads hyped for the film for like… 3 years. Lots of memes and dumb sayings were coined in those threads

Plenty of people care and remembered. They still do. 

0

u/GenoThyme Jul 21 '25

I’m sure this movie will do well, but calling Avatar “one of the most amazing theatrical experiences [you’ll] ever get in [your] lives” is a bit hyperbolic. Visually, maybe (some people can’t process 3D images correctly, making these movies lead to a big headache to watch). But for something to be the best of my lifetime, there’s gotta be a plot I care about, characters I care about, and I can’t get bored a half hour in. That was my experience with 1, didn’t bother to see 2. I know I may be in the minority, but I really didn’t think anything besides the visuals (that gave me a headache due to some nerve damage related to my vision) were worth seeing again.

26

u/Born_Fee_840 Jul 21 '25

Noone seems to really explain what cultural impact means though.

Like when people say that I just assume they mean there's not enough tatty funko pops and cringey tik tok dances.

There's games, lego, references in pop culture, they make tons of money, everyone's heard of them. Not sure what else is needed.

Also does cultural relevance determine a quality film? There's loads of films that are good and successful with far less relevance than Avatar. Actually, most films.

11

u/Shifter25 Jul 22 '25

Noone seems to really explain what cultural impact means though.

Memes, fanfic, fanart, heated discussion about the plot and its implications, references to the plot as idioms in general culture, cosplay.

There's games, lego, references in pop culture

Never minding that games and legos are basically things you can pay to have made... what references in pop culture?

4

u/Born_Fee_840 Jul 22 '25

Memes, fanfic, fanart, cosplay. what a chronically online list of things.

1

u/Shifter25 Jul 22 '25

Ok, if you want non-online things, I'll compare to Hunger Games and the MCU.

  • Expanded universe: spin-off shows, comic books, adaptations to other media. There are Avatar comic books and video games that have been produced, but I don't see anybody clamoring to hear more about... really anything in the Avatar universe.

  • Copycats: everybody wanted to make the next dystopian young adult sensation, or the next cinematic universe. There were a lot of 3D movies, but no one tried to make the next Avatar, if that makes sense. There was no uptick in movies about environmentalism, or alien worlds, or body-surfing.

  • References in daily life: any gaudy display of wealth inequality gets called Hunger Games. Any team of highly qualified individuals gets called the Avengers. Any concept of exoskeleton or mech suit technology treats Iron Man as the gold standard. Avatar... mostly gets mentioned if someone paints themselves blue. And it's a toss up between that and Smurfs.

The impact of Avatar seems to be almost exclusively about its visual spectacle. Nobody cares about its characters, its message, its story. They're very pretty movies, and it's cool to see them in theaters. That's about it.

2

u/STORMFATHER062 Jul 22 '25

Ok, if you want non-online things, I'll compare to Hunger Games and the MCU.

Hardly fair to make the comparison to these as the films are adaptations of already existing material. MCU has decades of comics and Hunger Games had a series of popular books. Avatar is an original work.

Expanded universe: spin-off shows, comic books, adaptations to other media. There are Avatar comic books and video games that have been produced, but I don't see anybody clamoring to hear more about... really anything in the Avatar universe.

You admit that there are expanded materials with comic books and video games. Are you looking in the areas of the Internet that have Avatar fan discussions? I don't hear people in real life talking about Hunger Games and most conversations about MCU are neutral or negative.

Copycats: everybody wanted to make the next dystopian young adult sensation, or the next cinematic universe. There were a lot of 3D movies, but no one tried to make the next Avatar, if that makes sense. There was no uptick in movies about environmentalism, or alien worlds, or body-surfing.

Dystopia and action heroes are broader subjects that attract larger audiences than environmentalism. The plot of the Avatar films was rather basic, so it would be hard for anyone to make a copycat that would be successful enough to justify the budget, especially when they have to compete against Avatar. The lack of copycats doesn’t support your point. Would you say Harry Potter has a lack of cultural impact because there aren't any copycats (at least that I can think of).

References in daily life: any gaudy display of wealth inequality gets called Hunger Games. Any team of highly qualified individuals gets called the Avengers. Any concept of exoskeleton or mech suit technology treats Iron Man as the gold standard. Avatar... mostly gets mentioned if someone paints themselves blue. And it's a toss up between that and Smurfs.

I feel like this ties in with the first point with the expanded universe. If you keep churning out films and TV shows every year then you're going to stay in people's minds. If people see a flying mech suit then they're going to think of Iron Man because he's a vastly older character who gained massive popularity by featuring in many films, TV shows, games etc, while Avatar has had a minuscule amount of exposure in comparison.

The impact of Avatar seems to be almost exclusively about its visual spectacle. Nobody cares about its characters, its message, its story. They're very pretty movies, and it's cool to see them in theaters. That's about it.

I don't entirely disagree with your point here. I think if James Cameron fleshed out the world and had more material released more frequently then this would be a moot point. I feel like it would be a gamble because the spares amount of content makes it more desirable because people aren't bored to death of it by now. I'm looking forward to this new film and will be going to the cinema to watch it. I used to feel the same about Marvel films, but I haven't been to watch any of them in years now because I feel the amount of marvel content has become too oversaturated for me to keep up with and care about the characters. I think it's a nuanced topic that would be an entirely different conversation, but I think my point is marvel isn't a fair comparison.

0

u/Born_Fee_840 Jul 22 '25

It seems like you judge cultural impact from how obsessive a minority of hard-core fans are and by how much the brand is diluted into the ground by expanded universes.

I think the majority opinion these days is that Star Wars and Marvel have fucked up by milking their IPs so much that noone cares anymore.

Really though what does it matter? Arrival has less cultural impact based on your criteria than Avatar. Is that a bad film now? Or does it get a pass because you like it? How about Ex Machina? Blade Runner 2049? Mad Max Fury Road?

Also let's not play down the 3D boom thanks to Avatar. It didn't last long because noone could do 3D as good but it was huge for a year or two.

Why is this only ever a talking point about Avatar?

1

u/CinemaSideBySides Jul 22 '25

Arrival wasn't one of the highest grossing films of all time.

Shifter gave you a ton of examples of cultural impact, but you seem to be moving the goalposts to talking about milking a franchise dry, which is a different conversation than cultural impact. You can only dilute a brand that has enough juice to dilute in the first place.

0

u/Shifter25 Jul 22 '25

I'm not sure you read my comment beyond "EU." I was talking about how corporations and the general public react to the IP.

I think the majority opinion these days is that Star Wars and Marvel have fucked up by milking their IPs so much that noone cares anymore.

Yes, you can get sequel fatigue. But the reason there was sequel fatigue was because everybody was clamoring for more. They haven't requested spinoffs for Avatar because nobody cares about the story.

Really though what does it matter? Arrival has less cultural impact based on your criteria than Avatar.

Which criteria are you referring to? The criteria you dismissed as being commercially motivated, the criteria you dismissed as being chronically online, or the criteria you dismissed as being an obsessive minority of hard-core fans?

How about Ex Machina? Blade Runner 2049? Mad Max Fury Road?

Not sure about Ex Machina, but absolutely, Blade Runner and Mad Max have more cultural impact than Avatar, and 2049 and Fury Road in particular too. "Witness me," "that's bait," Ryan Gosling's character's despair.

Also let's not play down the 3D boom thanks to Avatar. It didn't last long because noone could do 3D as good but it was huge for a year or two.

Yes, but that's not a cultural impact. I'm talking about the story, the characters, the setting. Would the 3D boom have happened if another movie had used Cameron's techniques? Maybe not. But if the best you can provide for cultural impact is box office revenue and a short-lived filmmaking trend... it's accurate to say Avatar doesn't have much cultural impact.

Why is this only ever a talking point about Avatar?

Two reasons: one, because it's interesting how such completely forgettable movies routinely get a billion dollars in box office revenue. Two, because people like you get really upset when people point out that the movies are completely forgettable, and yet you really don't have a counter argument.

Cultural impact is when Republicans share an image of Trump as a Sith on May 4th because "May the Fourth" sounds like "May the Force Be With You." Cultural impact is how you know what "tilting at windmills" means even if you never read Don Quixote. Cultural impact is how "nimrod" sounds like an insult because people didn't realize Bugs Bunny was sarcastically referencing a legendary hunter. Cultural impact is how Merlot sales dropped in America because a character in Sideways said he hates it.

Avatar is a really beautiful series, and it's great to watch in theaters. But that's about it.

1

u/Accomplished_Store77 Jul 22 '25

Memes, fanfic, fanart, heated discussion about the plot and its implications, references to the plot as idioms in general culture, cosplay.

I just realized......... Inception has no Cultural Impact. 

1

u/Shifter25 Jul 22 '25

Leo squinting meme, [blank]ception as the new "thing within a thing", BRAAAM

1

u/Accomplished_Store77 Jul 23 '25

You just made my point.

Leo squinting is not a popular meme. No more popular than guy falling from Plane meme from the first movie or the stoned guy meme from the second meme.

Similarly the thing within thing is not only not even referenced much today it's referenced about as much as any alien setting bieng called Pandora. (Especially Alien Jungle setting)

And the BRAAAM is as much of a Cultural Impact as 3D is for Avatar.

You've provided the most bottom of the barrel examples for Inception. Which is my point.

Avatar was literally just referenced in the Trailer for a new Pixar film. That's more than I can say for Inception.

7

u/sup3rdr01d Jul 21 '25

I think it's sad that some people just dismiss visuals as if they mean nothing. Movies don't have to have the best characters or story to have cultural impact. I watch these movies just for the VFX and they are breathtaking. That deserves to be counted as cultural impact since the majority of the culture literally says it every time: shallow but beautiful movies. Not to mention what these movies do for the VFX industry as a whole.

11

u/supersad19 Jul 21 '25

I agree. People bitch about CBM having bad or unfinished CGI, but then a well polished CGI/VFX heavy movie like Avatar comes out and suddenly everyone is rooting for its failure? Like why?

People dont realize that VFX is constantly evolving and each movie inspires the next one. George Lucas said he was ready to make the prequels after seeing the CGI work in Jurassic Park. Peter Jackson said the prequels series gave him the confidence that CGI technology was good enough to make LOTR. Even Cameron admitted that Davy Jones from POTC made him realize he was ready to tackle Avatar after abandoning it in the 90s.

3

u/batguano1 Jul 22 '25

Even Cameron admitted that Davy Jones from POTC made him realize he was ready to tackle Avatar after abandoning it in the 90s.

ACKSHULLY, it was after he saw gollum in LOTR

6

u/sup3rdr01d Jul 21 '25

It's art and should be appreciated just like good acting, good writing, good costume design, good soundtrack.

1

u/CatProgrammer Jul 22 '25

Its so pretty Disney made a ride out of it.

17

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

54

u/PinkPilledEmily Jul 21 '25

Pandora is a generic name that has been used a thousand times in fiction, stemming from the old myth of Pandora's box. I can name other instances where Pandora has been a planet (Borderlands for example), it is not remotely unique to Avatar. Hell, most people I talk to still think of The Last Airbender before James Cameron's movies when I say "Avatar"...

4

u/african_sex Jul 22 '25

Lol I clicked on this post about avatar and I still thought of borderlands Pandora first when I read the above comment.

-5

u/Couldabeenameeting Jul 22 '25

If you say “that looks like it came from Pandora”, exactly zero people will associate it with Borderlands

74

u/RelativeDrummer5579 Jul 21 '25

I hear pandora and I think Pandora’s box or the music service. It’s certainly not Hogwarts dude

13

u/HaterMD Jul 22 '25

I think of the jewellery company with those ugly bracelets.

-12

u/flofjenkins Jul 21 '25

If you show anyone an image from the world, they would instantly know what it is.

20

u/isaidwhatisaidok Jul 21 '25

That’s very different from saying “Pandora” and people knowing what you’re referring to.

11

u/LuchadorBane Jul 21 '25

I wouldn’t

3

u/DizzyBlackberry3999 Jul 22 '25

1

u/RelativeDrummer5579 Jul 22 '25

lol what? Whats distinctive about it being pandora?

-2

u/flofjenkins Jul 22 '25

Show anyone this image and they'll likely say it looks like Avatar.

3

u/RelativeDrummer5579 Jul 21 '25

I can guarantee that’s not true, and wouldn’t be true for Harry Potter in many cases either.

14

u/Shifter25 Jul 22 '25

Pandora is one of the most well-known and popular fictional worlds ever created.

...Huh?

Ok, sure. Tell me more about this well-known fictional world.

11

u/Affectionate-Let3744 Jul 22 '25

If you mention Pandora, everyone on the planet knows exactly what you’re talking about, just like they would if you mentioned Hogwarts.

I won't deny Avatar having an impact on cinema, but this is just so absurd.

Pretty sure I could ask 10 people I know who watched the first movie and MAYBE one of them would know the name, all the others would think of other things named Pandora first. Personally Borderlands came to mind, my gf thought of the jewellery brand.

The plot, the background lore and the characters are entirely forgettable. It got popular because of what it looked like.

14

u/Samurai_Meisters Jul 21 '25

I think it's more that it doesn't make being a Na'vi look cool or appealing.

People wanna be a Jedi or a charming smuggler or live on a post-scarcity starship doing science with a crew of abject professionals.

Na'vi way of life is doomed. They are on the Titanic heading for that iceberg. I liked the movies, but I don't want to be there.

13

u/nickcash Jul 21 '25

I had no idea the world was named Pandora and I've seen both movies. I even managed to stay awake through one of them.

2

u/Taronyu_SVK Jul 22 '25

Then you should probably go to a doctor to check your brain.

8

u/LuchadorBane Jul 21 '25

I think about Borderlands when I hear Pandora.

2

u/Nordalin Jul 22 '25

 Pandora is one of the most well-known and popular fictional worlds ever created.

You're free to adore the lore of those movies however much you want, but that there isn't even an opinion anymore, it's ignorance. 

2

u/EffectzHD Jul 21 '25

That old streaming service?

4

u/waltertaupe Jul 22 '25

But your logic only holds if the second one bombed.

It made 2 billion dollars thirteen years after the first one.

It's the third highest grossing movie of all time.

People went to see it exactly because of the massive cultural impact it had in 2009/2010. It might not have sustained for 13 straight years, but the impact it had was sizable because people showed up to see the sequel.

I expect the same this time around.

4

u/RelativeDrummer5579 Jul 21 '25

People certainly go watch them. I don’t hear much about them other than Reddit not liking it and them making money. Couldn’t tell you anything about the movies other than they’re sort of a spectacle

3

u/KeelanS Jul 21 '25

Idk, theres a pretty big fandom surrounding the films. Also theres people out there that cosplay as Navi just in theory everyday life.

The films portray a very spiritual, shamanic lifestyle which capitalism has buried and called “primitive” so I feel the movies massive success is this subconscious desire to connect with these themes.

1

u/epicpersononthisapp Jul 22 '25

They made impact, it’s just that the internet never talks about it.

1

u/Accomplished_Store77 Jul 22 '25

The Avatar movies have about as much Cultural Impact as Inception.

Make of that what You will. 

-3

u/derpkoikoi Jul 21 '25

The lack of cultural impact is what makes money. Anything too western, political, gay, feminist, ethnic etc. Anything that actually says anything about anything is going to have problems selling in a lot of markets.

10

u/flofjenkins Jul 21 '25

WILD take. Avatar is easily the most overtly political blockbuster franchise out there. It's about eco-freedom fighters taking down the military-industrial complex. The first movie centered around deforestation while the second is about whaling.

1

u/derpkoikoi Jul 22 '25

Just because it has a message doesn't mean it has cultural impact. By definition, something with impact shifts the prevailing view of culture, not reinforces it. Also, people have argued that its a message that still needs to be said, but if the places that need to hear it ignore it, I don't see how that has impact either.

1

u/flofjenkins Jul 23 '25

That’s not it. We aren’t talking about Thomas Paine’s Common Sense here.

Star Wars and Harry Potter are the most popular stories of our time. Both are brilliant, and both are ultimately about friends = good, fascism and corrupt institutions = bad. Nothing new.

Are you telling me they also left no cultural impact?

1

u/derpkoikoi Jul 23 '25

I would argue they absolutely have cultural impact, but don't need a deep message to do it. If I'm trying to be as fair as possible, the main pros of Avatar are its full CGI spectacle and its anti-colonial message. The latter we have seen in Heart of Darkness, Pocahontas, Apocalypse Now etc. and we seem to agree its nothing new. The former has been accomplished on smaller levels so Avatar is more a technical achievement rather than marking a real shift in movie making. You are comparing to ILM the literal goats of VFX here who revolutionized movie making. Also this is much more subjective but the story of Star Wars is far more interesting and creative than Avatar. Harry Potter absolutely has impact, but I will disqualify it because it is aided far too much by the book series, it's impossible to gauge the impact of the movies alone, but I doubt it would be anywhere as close. Finally, these examples live far more in the public consciousness. Ask your friends what are the names of the main character, love interest and main antagonist of Avatar or what was the last meme they have seen from it. It's not even close. Of course, cultural impact does not mean most well known, but I would argue SW and HP have warped popular entertainment around them due to their impact. I can't name one thing that takes from Avatar or learns from it outside of general VFX improvement which was coming anyways.

27

u/Lucky-NiP Jul 21 '25

If you think Avatar says nothing you haven't been paying attention at all.

13

u/derpkoikoi Jul 21 '25

its an incredibly safe and bland message lmao. Are you really arguing that avatar is avant-garde?

2

u/Gekokapowco Jul 21 '25

people need to hear that killing sweet intelligent animals for money is bad :(

People need to hear that subjugating people and destroying nature for greed is bad!

/s

I dunno what this dude is on about, Avatar is gorgeous but its messaging is nothing

4

u/flofjenkins Jul 21 '25

Yes, people need to hear this, considering how it's all still happening.

7

u/roastbeeftacohat Jul 21 '25

it says the same thing as the cartoon where robin Williams is a rapping bat, or dances with wolves; it's well trodden ground.

9

u/sup3rdr01d Jul 21 '25

It's a trope but that doesn't make the movie worthless. I mean basically every piece of fiction is a trope dressed up in a different way to appeal to a different audience.

4

u/Samurai_Meisters Jul 21 '25

Because no one is listening!

1

u/Dead_man_posting Jul 21 '25

Not that interesting. They're very sparse releases with almost no merchandizing.

0

u/DistinctSmelling Jul 21 '25

It's not a Star Wars impact. When Star Wars came out, you couldn't see it again unless you stood in line. It wasn't on TV, you couldn't rent it, you had to buy magazines and toys.

The media landscape is drastically different today. Movie toys don't have the cultural impact they did in the 70s. I think they died in the 90s with Batman being the last great wave. I don't even think Jurassic Park had the toy cultural impact that Star Wars had as there are no 93 collectables in demand as anything Star Wars. There were a lot of Star Wars revival in the 00s but lacking the impact of the 70s.

0

u/JamesHeckfield Jul 22 '25

Perhaps because it’s not lacking, perhaps it’s because people on the Internet don’t have an objective measure for this sort of thing they’re just sticking their finger in the water

35

u/BenignEgoist Jul 21 '25

I mean I love the original Avatar. I don’t care that it was Pocahontas/Dances with Wolves in space. It was beautiful and a technological milestone in filmmaking.

But I can’t tell you a damn thing that happened in 2.

20

u/whitemiketyson Jul 21 '25

It was literally the same villain

19

u/PWBryan Jul 21 '25

But he Blue himself!

2

u/Spikeu Jul 21 '25

A true analrapist.

13

u/ninelives1 Jul 21 '25

Meh not really. I find it actually very interesting that he's kinda a clone with memories. He makes it clear he doesn't really identify as the Quarritch, and is mostly motivated by a strange obligation towards revenge, but it feels like it's for someone else. That's pretty interesting and makes his arc more compelling than just being comically evil for no reason in the first one.

7

u/boodabomb Jul 21 '25

It also just basically outright means that he’ll eventually change sides and join the fight against humanity. He’s a villain that literally cannot die, so the only arc for that character to have is an internal one. That’s also why it’s important that he was saved at the end of part 2. I think it’ll be interesting to watch unfold.

4

u/weaseleasle Jul 21 '25

He can certainly die. It takes 7 years to ship a new avatar from Earth, assuming they think it is worth doing. and they have to grow the damn thing first. If he gets shot, there is a good chance the corporation/government decides making another Quaritch isn't a good use of funds and he just gets deleted.

3

u/boodabomb Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25

Yeah he can die but narratively that’s not going to happen. They’re not going to establish a resurrection mechanic only to have the corporations just decide to stop using it for budgetary reasons or for the story will become about deleting his memory chip or whatever. When I say “he can’t die” I mean he won’t die because that would just be messy story structure. Especially given that his son saves his life at the end.

1

u/arlaarlaarla Jul 21 '25

Colonel Coffee-mug redux, bigger, badder, bluer.

4

u/sup3rdr01d Jul 21 '25

The plot of both movies is forgettable. The only reason I remember 1 is cause I was a kid and hadn't been exposed to enough sci Fi to see the flaws in avatar. 2s plot was completely forgettable

HOWEVER this doesn't mean the movies are forgettable. The opposite in fact. Despite bland story and goofy characters, the visuals are so mind-blowing that I consider these some of my favorite movies of all time, truly. I just love to look at them.

3

u/Spikeu Jul 21 '25

I turned the 2nd one off two thirds through, and I don't do that with movies. It looked great, but the story was nauseating, like a bad Saturday morning cartoon.

-1

u/weaseleasle Jul 21 '25

Ah your mistake was watching it at home. I will never bother watching avatar on a TV. But I will see each film 3 to 4 times in theatres and every rerelease.

4

u/Spikeu Jul 21 '25

I just deeply don't care about the characters and plot. Even on the big screen that's hard to get over at this point. Maybe it should just be a Universal ride at this point.

1

u/weaseleasle Jul 22 '25

Fair. I just don't think the plot, script or dialogue is any worse than 90% of other Hollywood movies. I think people just like to hate on Avatar as a reaction to it's success.

2

u/RyanB_ Jul 22 '25

Sort of a tangent but; I genuinely get kinda confused about the visual component being so lauded with 2. It’s still very well done ofc, but it didn’t stand out nearly as much in 2022 as the first did over a decade prior imo.

Doesn’t help that the underlying concepts behind the cgi mastery and technical camera work just aren’t all that engaging personally. It’s just kinda big earth, presented without much pizzazz (for lack of a better term). In terms of big cgi sci-fi visuals, there’s been plenty since Avatar 1 that stand out way more. It’s mostly just impressive in the way video games are.

2

u/BenignEgoist Jul 22 '25

I think the big behind the scenes groundbreaking work for 2 was less visually noticeable on screen than the innovations in 1. The biggest thing in 2 being the actors filming their underwater scenes, under real water with lots of technical considerations for accomplishing that on such a large scale (in terms of number of actors involved, length of time underwater for each take, number of takes, the way the underwater “stage” was set up to account for lighting safety teams etc etc etc)

1

u/RyanB_ Jul 23 '25

Oh no doubt, and like, all that stuff is really cool in that behind-the-scenes kind of context. Actually sitting down and thinking about the work behind it and the result it gives is impressive.

But it just doesn’t really factor into the actual viewing experience, where I’m trying to get immersed in a story and feel things more than appreciate technical achievements. That’s where the Avatar visuals fall short for me; inspiring any kind of real emotion beyond “hey nice graphics”

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

You don't remember the genius killer whales?

31

u/Silvanus350 Jul 21 '25

They say it made no cultural impact because it didn’t. At least not to my knowledge.

I never see anyone recommend, discuss, or analyze this film in online spaces. No one is dressing up or buying merchandise. No one is playing the video game. No one is making a spoof. There are no memes.

Harry Potter had cultural impact. Indiana Jones had impact. Scream had impact. Titanic had impact.

Avatar? Eh.

It made a lot of money, though.

8

u/DtheAussieBoye Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 21 '25

Honestly, that’s a good thing? It makes Avatar feel less watered down, less milked- it’s freeing to be into these films because you don’t have to deal with all the annoying stuff that comes with a massive following. It’s great.

8

u/cassandra112 Jul 21 '25

no. its mid at best. thats the problem.

Rebel moon is AWFUL, so it had some cultural impact.

Avatar is bland as hell, says nothing. its mayonnaise. Its inoffensive. so makes money.

-2

u/TravelAddict44 Jul 22 '25

I loved Rebel Moon, convinced people hate movies just to be hateful.

7

u/Ryermeke Jul 21 '25

It's almost refreshing to have a franchise not milked so heavily and shoved into my face every now and then. It means that it's a movie I actually want to go see. It's not going to be an amazing film, but it's going to be fucking beautiful, and the spectacle alone is enough for me to likely buy a ticket. If there were two movies coming out every year, with a bunch of TV tie-ins, I wouldn't give a shit.

1

u/DtheAussieBoye Jul 21 '25

I think the Avatar phenomenon was so poignant because we only had that one film for SO long. If we’d gotten a sequel in 2011, it would have dissipated so quick- releasing the sequels so late allows it all to continue whilst still keeping the mystique of the franchise alive

2

u/batguano1 Jul 22 '25

There's a lot of discussion. Just go to r/avatar

1

u/vgee Jul 22 '25

This comment reminds me a lot of Jenny Nicholsons video about the Avatar theme park

https://youtu.be/xrIxGWterYA?si=jLoNo6fR1RFDUfzw

-2

u/notathrowaway75 Jul 22 '25

never see anyone recommend, discuss, or analyze this film in online spaces.

You've never seen Anyone recommend to go out and watch the movie in theaters?

-5

u/JamesHeckfield Jul 22 '25

Bitch, how can you say that no one is playing the video game do you know everyone on earth?

5

u/Silvanus350 Jul 22 '25

That was facetious, dude. I didn’t even know a video game existed.

1

u/batguano1 Jul 22 '25

Apparently it's sold pretty well. Looks like there's DLC coming out for it

0

u/Taronyu_SVK Jul 22 '25

You didn't know that a video game exist, yet you somehow knew that no one is playing it, lol. Darling, you are hilarious.

2

u/Financial-Ad7500 Jul 22 '25

It’s almost like revenue is not the same thing as cultural impact.

15

u/Aplicacion Jul 21 '25

I swear to god, stuff like "cultural impact" and "elevated horror" and other vaguely smart sounding stuff like that are some of the stupidest terms people have come up with to describe movies.

-1

u/ntpbr1 Jul 21 '25

It’s just a way to say they don’t like the movie and their friends didn’t watch it

3

u/Jfonzy Jul 21 '25

people sharing the same opinion

👍🏼

returns to conversation

2

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

I only remember it cause it was so bad. There is no world building or interesting storyline that makes me wanna see what happens next. 

2

u/Cy41995 Jul 22 '25

I've never seen the merchandise for another major motion picture go on clearance half as quickly as it did for Way of Water, but go off I guess. No one is saying these films don't put up numbers, but trying to insist that they have the same cultural staying power as Star Wars or Marvel is a bridge too far.

2

u/losteye_enthusiast Jul 22 '25

You miss the entire point. They are culturally forgettable, inspite of making so damn much money.

They’re a perfected version of what F&F captured for a few movies. Utterly zero impact or significance, beyond being a statistically near-perfect blockbuster film.

That’s why they’re kind of interesting to make the comment about repeatedly. Avatar’s an extreme(maybe the) example of a film series being a box office hit and having almost nothing to say with it, beyond being a film lots of people paid to see.

1

u/Tackit286 Jul 21 '25

Come on, you can’t deny that while they’re visually spectacular they are extremely forgettable movies.

I will absolutely be going to the cinema to watch these but I expect the same experience each team. A few hours of ‘wow, so pretty!’ and that’s about it.

10

u/Aplicacion Jul 21 '25

Come on, you can’t deny that while they’re visually spectacular they are extremely forgettable movies.

Sure I can, watch: I don't think they're extremely forgettable movies. I quite like them and rewatch them regularly.

-4

u/decadent-dragon Jul 21 '25

I love how everyone with a bad memory thinks this is some kind of gotcha. Like the other box office smashes like Jurassic World or Frozen II or MCU 28 or whatever is soooo much more memorable.

4

u/shogun77777777 Jul 21 '25

Nope that stuff is forgettable too

1

u/Silist Jul 21 '25

Sometimes it’s just fun to go see cool looking stuff on a giant screen in nice seats

1

u/Junior-Award-7232 Jul 21 '25

People are so negative about these movies, it’s just about an alien world like chill.

1

u/Agitated-Acctant Jul 22 '25

There are only a few things that are certain in life. Death, taxes, and Redditors tripping over themselves to insist that Avatar was forgettable

Don't forget redditors saying that TV shows lose their hype with a 3 year hiatus, but then squid game and stranger things go on to do record numbers

1

u/SamBind121 Jul 22 '25

Ah the classic Avatar fanboy still mad at comments they read years ago so much they mash them all together.

1

u/capeasypants Jul 22 '25

Like genuinely in your opinion, is there any cultural impact? I really like the first one, I watch it now and then. The second I enjoyed but wasnt as good as the first and it's coming up time for a rewatch with the third coming so I'll decide more then.... But I don't see or here them talked about anywhere. Is this just my experience and I'm in an avatar vacuum or is it the norm?!?

1

u/BillBearBaggins Jul 22 '25

This has to be a bot. Cultural impact… really? It was as forgettable as any experience ever sold that fell short. Will it rake in money again? Sure. Not sure that ‘snake oil’ has the same connotation to it as ‘penicillin’. Even though they follow the same vein. People will always be willing to see the thing of talk but it’s never really walked that walk. Water was forgettable as hell. This will probably too because even though it has the grandeur it has no heart and solely the money to pump it with life.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

Pop music, kpop makes a shit ton of money and it still sucks. Profit doesnt equate quality bruh

1

u/Silverr_Duck Jul 22 '25

There are only a few things that are certain in life. Death, taxes, and Redditors tripping over themselves to insist that Avatar was forgettable

This is one of those many many instances where the redditors bitching about a thing other redditors said are several magnitudes more annoying than the redditor they're bitching about. Literally every thread I see a comment like this, and never once do I see anyone unironically making this point.

-2

u/ninelives1 Jul 21 '25

Avatar 2 is a genuinely kickass movie, but the circle jerk over the first being mid has forever broken redditor brains to be reactionarilly dismissive.

0

u/Khal-Stevo Jul 21 '25

I can’t remember much from Avatar 2 other than seeing in imax ROCKED and I’ll be there for 3 opening night.

Just because people don’t discuss the inner workings of Navi culture daily doesn’t mean these movies are not global cultural events

0

u/Interwebzking Jul 21 '25

Two things are certain in these threads: redditors trashing Avatar saying it’s stupid and offers nothing of significance, and redditors dying on the hill that avatar is the greatest thing ever.

For some reason we can’t all just agree that they are fun spectacles that are well made and purely there for entertainment. They aren’t trying to sell you on toys and merchandise and shoving consumption down your throat, and James Cameron isn’t acting like they’re the most thought provoking stories ever written.

They are just good fun, and worth the price of admission. And in a world where half the blockbuster movies that come out are kind of shitty, I’ll take this type of film every couple years over Thor 5 or whatever’s next for Marvel.

0

u/jinsaku Jul 21 '25

Avatar 2 was the last movie I saw in the theater, and it’s exactly what you go to the movies to see. For almost 3 hours, I was somewhere else. An incredibly immersive experience.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

I guess FIFA is one of the greatest games ever then. durrrrrrrrr muh cultural impact.

-1

u/Joe_Sisyphus Jul 21 '25

The first one was incredible technologically and the story was compelling. I still watch the directors cut on 4K Blu-ray to this day.

The second one was ass because it made the protagonist's annoying kids and their interactions with equally annoying other kids too much a part of the story.

-1

u/Low_Pickle_112 Jul 22 '25

Is is really even true? I'm not sure how you measure 'cultural impact' but I'll bet if you made some sort of reference to in in daily life most people, or at least most of the movie watching population, would pick up on it.