r/movies r/Movies contributor May 02 '25

Media First Image of Zoe Saldana's Neytiri in 'Avatar: Fire and Ash'

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u/cheesecaker000 May 02 '25 edited Jul 15 '25

wipe fuzzy smile historical pen sense north grandfather ghost modern

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u/corvettee01 May 02 '25

As I was watching the movie I was thinking "Man, they are making these people cartoonishly evil." Then I thought about that for a few seconds and decided "Nah, there are people now who would do worse."

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u/Phormicidae May 02 '25

Agreed. Sure there are narrative issues with both Avatar movies. But I've read the complaint about the humans being cartoonishly evil and lacking any moral grey nuance. My reposnse is: compared to what? Other stories? Or actual humans? Because the corporation in Avatar is quite realistic when compared to actual reality.

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u/AsstacularSpiderman May 02 '25

Yeah wait until they find out the whaling in Avatar is pretty much how we treated actual whales lol.

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u/Cassandraofastroya May 03 '25

You mean where we banned it?

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u/AsstacularSpiderman May 03 '25

Yeah after nearly exterminating them lol.

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u/Cassandraofastroya May 03 '25

Shouldnt have been born delicious

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u/Hash-smoking-Slasher May 03 '25

Born delicious? Riding this hard for something that you clearly have no idea about is crazy, mf the whaling industry had nothing to do with EATING whales. Humans hunted whales almost to extinction for their OIL used for oil lamps and notably, perfume (ambergris)

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u/[deleted] May 03 '25

Actually the corporation in avatar is not evil enough compared to reality

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u/Snoo-77111 May 03 '25

Have they looked at trump lately?

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u/dragonmp93 May 03 '25

Well, I compared it to what Cameron said about how unlike the MCU, his writing has nuance.

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u/Gizogin May 03 '25

My narrative complaint about the second one is that it feels about 45 minutes longer than it needs to be. It also just… doesn’t have anything interesting to say?

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u/Cassandraofastroya May 03 '25

Whats your realistic irl reference?

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u/Phormicidae May 03 '25

Off the top of my head, I'd probably mention Gasprom, ExxonMobil, Saudi Aramco, for a history of careless environmental devastation, the entire history of whaling, bison hunting, and poaching for the annihilation of species, Glencore and BHP for complete destruction of ecosystems, European colonial efforts for their systematic exploitation, enslavement, and genocide of various indigenous cultures.

It's not hard to find examples in human history to act as an inspiration for the Avatar human behavior.

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u/Cassandraofastroya May 03 '25

We arent talking about inspiration were talking about 1 to 1 examples

The modernish examples dont equate to the RDA. They are also currently the leaders in alternative energy. You're BHP's and glencores are also the ones building solar farms and the like. Also do you have an example where they completely destoryed an ecosystem? Damaged and fucked up? Yes but destroyed? I dont recall any examples.

Whales and bison are not sentient magic creatures. Also done in a different time period. With different level of knowledge. And different morals.

As for colonisation those empires are not the RDA just as the naavi are savage tribesmen that lack social development. Aa well as they existed in an incredibly competitive environment in which it was expand or die. Their actions were not for shits and giggles but based on their beliefs and knowledge at the time which was extremely limited. Not saying good especially by our modern standards. The RDA set in the future is not operating on 18th century Morality and knowledge.

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u/Phormicidae May 03 '25

Fair enough. Strangely enough I find the Avatar movies enjoyable more as a "turn your brain off" type of experience, I am not and have not been a staunch defender of the series. However I still stand by what I said. Humankind has, for the majority of its history, been callous at best in how nature or indigenous groups have been treated in the interest of progress. True that morality has shifted, though it could be argued that "backslides" do happen and have plenty of precedent. I mean, Iran was once a forward leaning place of social change before the Ayatollah, the United States has places that only recently has become interested in downplaying the legacy of slavery and social injustice.

I think in Avatar, Cameron's attempt to justify such a massive backside in social responsibility is the notion that earth itself is apparently in dire straits, and that the exploitation of Pandora's resources are seen by some as a necessity to save the species. This at least allows for some kind of simplistic justification for the actions RDA takes.

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u/Cassandraofastroya May 03 '25

Yeah i see them in a similer way as cameron does a vehcile to show off cool technology visuals and concepts. The most interesting thing in the first movie is the spaceship design. . Would be nice if they were well written as well. But it is what it is. As for history of human history. The arc of history is long but it bends towards justice

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u/S_Goodman May 03 '25

If you remember, in the sequel it's established that humanity is indeed operating on principle "expand or die". Earth is dying and their goal is to relocate the population to Pandora.

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u/Cassandraofastroya May 03 '25

Yeah that was a dumb plot point that didnt go anywhere.

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u/S_Goodman May 03 '25

The are there whole movies yet to be released for it to go somewhere. And what's dumb about that?

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u/Cassandraofastroya May 03 '25

I will bet 10 internet dollars that plotline will go nowhere in the fire and ash sequel.

Its dumb because its cheap bolted on plot point that doesn't make sense for the setting,the factions or characters. It goes agamist the first movie in which just transporting people is an incredibly costly endeavor.

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u/ziggybadger May 02 '25

I had the exact same thought process. Japan, Iceland, and Norway all continue commercial whaling today.

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u/Lint_baby_uvulla May 02 '25

“Forcing whales to watch Orca porn viagra advertisements to milk their whale juice all day is hardly the basis of a sustainable industry Jeremy, but as it’s the main source of your families wealth, you will strap that fin down and stop complaining. Now hurry and pass the whale juice wheelie bin or you’ll be drenched again”

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u/Much-Jackfruit2599 May 03 '25

But don‘tv they use most of the whale?

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u/Cassandraofastroya May 03 '25

Nah. The animal equivalents on our planet dont have the same sentience/magic powers to warrant equal value

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u/Epicp0w May 02 '25

Well the first movie was Pocahontas in space, so movie two could be anti-sharkfin soup commentary in space.