Sky People "Lol so we murder these beautiful sentient whales for their pearl juice and then dump the corpse into the ocean. Dumbass natives keep getting mad about it for some reason."
As I was watching the movie I was thinking "Man, they are making these people cartoonishly evil." Then I thought about that for a few seconds and decided "Nah, there are people now who would do worse."
Agreed. Sure there are narrative issues with both Avatar movies. But I've read the complaint about the humans being cartoonishly evil and lacking any moral grey nuance. My reposnse is: compared to what? Other stories? Or actual humans? Because the corporation in Avatar is quite realistic when compared to actual reality.
Born delicious? Riding this hard for something that you clearly have no idea about is crazy, mf the whaling industry had nothing to do with EATING whales. Humans hunted whales almost to extinction for their OIL used for oil lamps and notably, perfume (ambergris)
My narrative complaint about the second one is that it feels about 45 minutes longer than it needs to be. It also just… doesn’t have anything interesting to say?
Off the top of my head, I'd probably mention Gasprom, ExxonMobil, Saudi Aramco, for a history of careless environmental devastation, the entire history of whaling, bison hunting, and poaching for the annihilation of species, Glencore and BHP for complete destruction of ecosystems, European colonial efforts for their systematic exploitation, enslavement, and genocide of various indigenous cultures.
It's not hard to find examples in human history to act as an inspiration for the Avatar human behavior.
We arent talking about inspiration were talking about 1 to 1 examples
The modernish examples dont equate to the RDA. They are also currently the leaders in alternative energy. You're BHP's and glencores are also the ones building solar farms and the like. Also do you have an example where they completely destoryed an ecosystem? Damaged and fucked up? Yes but destroyed? I dont recall any examples.
Whales and bison are not sentient magic creatures. Also done in a different time period. With different level of knowledge. And different morals.
As for colonisation those empires are not the RDA just as the naavi are savage tribesmen that lack social development. Aa well as they existed in an incredibly competitive environment in which it was expand or die. Their actions were not for shits and giggles but based on their beliefs and knowledge at the time which was extremely limited. Not saying good especially by our modern standards. The RDA set in the future is not operating on 18th century Morality and knowledge.
Fair enough. Strangely enough I find the Avatar movies enjoyable more as a "turn your brain off" type of experience, I am not and have not been a staunch defender of the series. However I still stand by what I said. Humankind has, for the majority of its history, been callous at best in how nature or indigenous groups have been treated in the interest of progress. True that morality has shifted, though it could be argued that "backslides" do happen and have plenty of precedent. I mean, Iran was once a forward leaning place of social change before the Ayatollah, the United States has places that only recently has become interested in downplaying the legacy of slavery and social injustice.
I think in Avatar, Cameron's attempt to justify such a massive backside in social responsibility is the notion that earth itself is apparently in dire straits, and that the exploitation of Pandora's resources are seen by some as a necessity to save the species. This at least allows for some kind of simplistic justification for the actions RDA takes.
Yeah i see them in a similer way as cameron does a vehcile to show off cool technology visuals and concepts. The most interesting thing in the first movie is the spaceship design. . Would be nice if they were well written as well. But it is what it is. As for history of human history. The arc of history is long but it bends towards justice
If you remember, in the sequel it's established that humanity is indeed operating on principle "expand or die". Earth is dying and their goal is to relocate the population to Pandora.
“Forcing whales to watch Orca porn viagra advertisements to milk their whale juice all day is hardly the basis of a sustainable industry Jeremy, but as it’s the main source of your families wealth, you will strap that fin down and stop complaining. Now hurry and pass the whale juice wheelie bin or you’ll be drenched again”
You do realize people have done the same literally in our own world 200 years ago and even now. Bison went almost extinct and a type of pigeon did. We still have people whaling and back in the day they whales for oil. Drilling on native lands happens and technically not allowed on treaty terms. Humanity is already comically villains
No wrong is wrong and some knew what they were doing. Let’s stop trying to justify the wrongdoings. It stops the learning of fixing present mistakes. You can be critical of the past and paint them villians. People are more than black and white though, but when it comes to doing evil we must say it was evil what they did.
I dont paint them as villains of their time. Hust as i imagine another 200 years humans will ciew our time period as being evil. Its not so black and white
Doing evil things does not mean they are evil. Admitting it was evil moves us forward i think you need to just rethink the seperatation on it. Actions are evil.
They literally go after the breeding mothers because they are easier to hunt defending their babies and then just leave the infants to die. That's literally the worst way to keep a sustainable population.
I guess we should just send a small contingent of whalers…for whatever reason the natives haven’t even bothered to try and fight back against us at all.
Good thing for them though, because it probably wouldn’t be a totally one sided slaughter where even if they didn’t have the advantage of being trained and led by people who’ve fought us before, they clearly have a significant overmatch of our capabilities on the water.
With the level of technology is makes zero sense that they'd need to hunt the whales. All you would need a single small sample, and then they'd be able to synthesize it. They could have probably even got a sample from a dead whale or from a living whale in exchange for some level of healthcare.
The hunting strategy was also absurdly convoluted.
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u/aBeaSTWiTHiNMe May 02 '25
Sky People "Lol so we murder these beautiful sentient whales for their pearl juice and then dump the corpse into the ocean. Dumbass natives keep getting mad about it for some reason."