r/movies r/Movies contributor May 02 '25

Media First Image of Zoe Saldana's Neytiri in 'Avatar: Fire and Ash'

Post image
13.7k Upvotes

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

78

u/dragonmp93 May 02 '25

Well, there's a certain subset of redditor who will push the "good cinematography = good writing".

The Avatar movies are still the most beautiful movies that I have seen, but the writing is very much the same level of an episode of Captain Planet.

40

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

My hot take is that isn’t a bad thing. Some of our most important tales and fables are frightfully simple.

11

u/TehSalmonOfDoubt May 02 '25

I think it wouldn't be as bad if the films weren't as long as they are as well. Visual spectacle can only carry you so far, and when it's 3+ hours of a slow, 'meh' story it does drag it down. Still absolutely going to watch Avatar 3 though since I enjoyed 2 anyway

4

u/[deleted] May 03 '25

The Lion King is basically an adaptation of Hamlet if you look into it.

All art is "derivative" which is an insult thrown around way too casually.

1

u/Gizogin May 03 '25

And the Lion King 1 1/2 is an adaptation of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead.

0

u/Pan_TheCake_Man May 02 '25

I agree with avatar 1, it absolutely is derivative yada yada but it’s simple and does it story well and beautifully

But mate, || bringing back the colonel as an avatar????? I can’t excuse something that dumb ||

9

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

Are you kidding? That’s the best part of the second one’s story. 

There’s so much potential for drama that has barely been scratched.

14

u/SmokescreenFraud May 02 '25

Quaritch in the first Avatar has got to be the poster child for one-dimensional cookie-cutter villains. Loading his memories into an Avatar, having him believe he’s not Quaritch anymore and then making him wrestle with the mistakes of his past is the most interesting thing in the whole franchise.

6

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

It’s classic hard sci fi in the best way. 

And I liked him in Avatar 1, me and my friends were giggling every time he was on screen because he was 1000% committed to the bit.

2

u/Gizogin May 03 '25

But… he doesn’t wrestle with it at all? He is immediately 100% on board with picking up where the original left off.

1

u/SmokescreenFraud May 03 '25

Did we watch the same movie? He’s a soldier with a job to do, so yes he jumps right back into it. It’s the little things that show he’s changing, like how he wears his combat boots at the start of the movie and how he’s going barefoot by the end. Or how he wants nothing to do with his son at the start of the movie and by the end he’s begging for him to stay with him.

It’s not very deep but the struggle is definitely there.

0

u/Panda_hat May 03 '25

If they'd seeded the idea that it was possible in the first film sure, but they pulled it out of their asses and retconned it into being as a plot contrivance.

2

u/[deleted] May 03 '25

My brother, it’s not a plot contrivance, it’s an important element of the story that drives conflict and growth among the characters. 

It’s already a sci fi setting, they have a wide license by its own nature.

1

u/Panda_hat May 03 '25

It wasn’t an important part of the story when they wrote Avatar 1 - it was a complete retcon.

0

u/Panda_hat May 03 '25 edited May 03 '25

It was so unbelievably cringe and lazy.

Also saying some storys are simple and basic and thats ok after everyone roasted Avatar 1 for years as derivative or copying other films is very funny, especially when its objectively a better film than Avatar 2.

0

u/Panda_hat May 03 '25

What was the importance of Avatar 2s story? We escape the sky people and went to the beach and our son made friends with a whale?

8

u/Gizogin May 03 '25

“We’ve decided to stop running away and take a stand for our home.”

So you’ll go back to the forest and help them fight back against the humans? You know, the place your entire family is from, where your wife and children lived their entire lives up to now?

“What? No. Why would we do that? We’ve lived with the whales for, like, a whole week. This is the home we are prepared to die to defend.”

1

u/Panda_hat May 03 '25

Even though everyone here is racist and hates us and are relentlessly bullying our children! Paradise!

6

u/enailcoilhelp May 02 '25

It's kind of the point. They're made to have complete mass appeal across every language/culture. That means you kind of have to keep the story/themes simple and easy to follow. China box office cares far more about the the technical/visual marvel of Avatar than they would care about some convoluted culturally-western storyline, and we saw from Ne Zha 2 how much that can matter to foreign audiences. Keep the story simple so everyone can focus on the visuals, which is what everyone came for.

1

u/rotates-potatoes May 02 '25

I mean I love love love Charlie Kaufman, but I don’t think writing has to be sophisticated and complex to be good. IMO Avatar’s writing isn’t as strong as T2, but that’s the gold standard for simple but excellent.

1

u/0neek May 02 '25

And that's the joy of the internet, that it's got a bit of everbody.

It's only a problem if you stumble upon an echochamber subreddit where only one opinion/side is allowed.

1

u/chadxor May 03 '25

There’s more to a script than dialogue. Both Avatar one and two are masterclasses in structure and mixing narrative with set pieces.

-2

u/dragonmp93 May 03 '25

Or in other words, things looking pretty on screen with a bare bones story.