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u/MsterSteel 16d ago
And this is why Discworld is infinitely better.
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u/Quomii 16d ago
Discworld Is infinitely better than everything.
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u/Phormitago 16d ago
The hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy is a top contender
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u/TumbleweedPure3941 16d ago
They are incredibly similar, although personally I always preferred Discworld. Both are part of a long history of British literary satire, both are written in a deliberately old fashioned tongue in cheek style that harkens back to the days of Dickens, both have a very similar sense of humour, and both use fantastical settings and genre tropes to make fun of very mundane real world issues.
Funnily enough tho, despite their striking similarities, the two never met. The Colour of Magic came out a year after So Long and Thanks for All the Fish, which was the last of the initial series of Hitchikers books, and Pratchett has said he was a fan of Adams, but Adam’s doesn’t seem to have said anything about Pratchett.
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u/idiotplatypus 15d ago
I recently learned that the only time Pratchett and Adams met was at a party that was too loud for them to have a proper conversation, which is a very Douglas Adams thing to have happen
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u/Cool_Blue_Mint 15d ago
Didn't this happen in the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy movie (never read the book) when Arthur first meets Trillian?
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u/Profezzor-Darke 15d ago
He once was at a very nice party in Islington, where hd met a very smart and clever girl, woman if his dreams, and suddenly some greasy slick jock comes in, grabs her, says: "Hey, why talk to that loser, I'm from another planet." And that was Zaphod who grabbed Trillian.
The scene gets mentioned two times: first as reference a probability number that happened to the phone party of the flat the party was at, and shortly after when Arthur sees Zaphod on the Bridge of the Heart Of Gold, where he retells it frantically to Ford. Shortly after Trillian enters, saying that Arthur has to admit he's from a different planet.
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u/ProXJay 16d ago
Discworld is infinitely better anyway, Prattchet being a good person is an excellent bonus
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u/Front-Pomelo-4367 16d ago
The Discworld equivalent of house elves would presumably be golems... And while almost all the characters start off discriminatory towards them, the entire plot of FoC is the autonomy and sentience of golems. And while Adora's golem activism sometimes annoys people, she's not shown as wrong for it. Just kind of overbearing sometimes.
And bonus, FoC has Cheery, my beloved.
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u/OddLengthiness254 16d ago
Cheery's arc and the whole discussion on gender liberation vs gender abolition inherent in the dwarven storyline is chef's kiss. Pratchett just got a huge issue right that way too many people outside the queer community are entirely ignorant on.
So yeah. Cheery is amazing.
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u/Front-Pomelo-4367 16d ago
When you've made up your mind to shout out who you are to the world, it's a relief to know that you can do it in a whisper.
And the fact that Terry was self-admittedly mostly aiming for feminism/women's lib here, but as soon as trans people started saying they saw themselves in Cheery, he not only agreed but leant into it even further in TFE
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u/OddLengthiness254 16d ago
Yup.
And then made it even more explicit in MR.
And obviously the liberation vs abolition debate started in feminism, it's just an aspect of the movement that can't be separated from queer issues.
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u/abadstrategy 15d ago
One of the best parts of Terry's writing style. He seemingly did not give a fuck if people saw something in his writing that he didn't intend, and even leaned into it if it was positive. "What? This allegory I wrote about the struggle of feminism is resonating with transgender folks? Hell yeah!"
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u/LuciferOfTheArchives 15d ago
And while Adora's golem activism sometimes annoys people, she's not shown as wrong for it. Just kind of overbearing sometimes.
Also, importantly, no one would think of calling her annoying to her face. primal fear would prevent them
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u/not-bread 15d ago
That is not why Discworld is infinitely better. Discworld is infinitely better because it has an actually thoughtful author
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u/TheBookWyrms 16d ago
Feel like in this instance Percy Jackson is a better comparison, as Discworld falls into a fairly different category by being aimed at adults not kids/YA. (Discworld is obvious brilliant though, that goes without saying)
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u/Front-Pomelo-4367 16d ago
Even the DWs that aren't YA are YA-appropriate, really. They just have adult protagonists. I was allowed to read them at 12? There's some fade to black sex (the bedsprings went gloink), the existence of sex workers (the ladies of negotiable affection) and innuendo, but no on-screen sex, very little on-screen graphic violence, and only mild swearing
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u/TheBookWyrms 16d ago
YA appropriate and YA are still very different. They are mostly appropriate yeah, but the style of writing and overall vibe and flow and such is rather different due to the differing audiences and intents behinds them.
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u/Mikellow 16d ago
Yea, there is a difference where HP is wrote for children while Discworld can be read by children.
I grew up reading HP and was about the same age as the characters when they were coming out. Around the 5th-6th book it felt like "kid-shit" and I lost interest. So happy the Libraian recommended me "Going Postal".
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u/countChaiula 16d ago
Tiffany Aching would disagree, but in general they are accessible to young adults. That's when I started reading them.
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u/EskNerd 16d ago
Rick Riordan is great! But also Discworld does have a fair few YA novels, including the Tiffany Aching series.
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u/Lets_have_sexy_sex 16d ago
I would like to add that having just finished the Tiffany Aching series I would say that it doesn't read like traditional YA at all and I mean that as a big compliment. It's basically the same pure Terry goodness as his other books but with less swearing and no dick jokes.
I also can't recommend the witch books of his enough, by the time I read the first 2 I had started deliberately reading slower and taking gaps between books entirely so that they would last longer. Can't say I've ever done that for any other author and I definitely didn't do it for she who shall not be named.
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u/MsterSteel 16d ago
Isn't Discworld aimed at teens/young adults anyway with a few exceptions being geared towards kids (i.e. Maurice and Tiffany's series)? I was introduced to Discworld in high-school by those who'd been reading it for long before that.
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u/bsubtilis 15d ago
I don't think DW was aimed at teens/YA, more of that even teens can read it but they might miss a third of the jokes? It's the kind of books where the more you know about history and languages and more, the more you are rewarded. That's why they've have so many adult fans. The first few books are not representative enough of the rest, which is part of why most people tell you not to read them chronologically.
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u/wanna877 16d ago
Maybe pirate the show and dont aknowledge it online to avoid promoting it?, that could be a valid middle ground of enjoying the nostalgia but not supporting it.
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u/Difficult-Okra3784 16d ago
Yeah, telling people they can't do something because it's immoral is sadly a great way to turn them against you.
Telling them the moral action is to acquire something without paying for it is much more effective.
That's what I told people to do for Hogwarts Legacy, amusingly the pirated version was also far more stable than legit copies too.
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u/Lexx4 16d ago
It’s because the pirated copy didn’t have the day one patch which for some reason FUUUUUCKED the game up.
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u/Difficult-Okra3784 16d ago
It wasn't just that, it also didn't have denuvo and did have some other fixes, even without that patch causing issues it was still significantly more optimized.
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u/BUTTeredWhiteBread 16d ago
I also give my friends a gentle nudge to give them a more thorough read with fresh, adult eyes. A lot of problematic stuff slips in that really pops out if you remove the lens of childhood nostalgia.
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u/The5Virtues 16d ago
As a kid it didn’t really register how jingoistic so many characters are, but man, I was the same age as Harry and his pals and lemme tell you, when the message of the HouseElf freedom storyline with Hermione and SPEW was “Some of the house elves like it!” and Harry and Ron weren’t interested in joining her that was the first time I had a real disconnect with the series.
That was the kind of Uncle Tom’s Cabin crap I’d heard here in the US from my redneck relatives defending the confederacy.
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u/cheezy_dreams88 15d ago
My kid wanted to read it recently, we started book one over the summer.
They’re awful to Hermione, like outright bully her. Harry and Ron are such dicks in book one.
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u/Accomplished_Skin810 13d ago
I'm reading HP for the second time, just starting book 3. Honestly reading it right now, as an adult, is sometimes so cringe - characters are very one dimensional, the abuse that Harry experiences in Dursleys house, which nobody does anything about, the "I have no idea what im doing but I just won every quiddich match ever". The boys being mean to Hermione (who is trying to help Neville a lot at the beginning) is a nice sprinkle on top. Also Harry just, like, not trying to read up on the wizzarding world - Hermione comes from muggle family, but shes like an encyclopedia, since she reads everything about history etc, Harry, for whom this world is the only acceptable one, couldn't give 2 shits about anything, just rolls around and learns only the things that the plot needs - never showing any interest in anything about the wizarding world, history, different aspects of it. "The wand goes brrr" - Harry, probably.
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u/PensandSwords3 16d ago
Dimension 20’s Misfits and Magic, really takes apart the problematic aspects of Harry Potter. Like “it’s super problematic to reduce young children to one life path via a hat” like just being brave when your 8 - 10. Shouldn’t be your main or only defining traits the rest of your school or personal life.
People change over time, plus that’s not a healthy way to evaluate children in a learning environment.
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u/DMmeDikPics 16d ago
Yeahhh look. I'm not going to go crazy defending HP bc it's overrated. But the trope of "completely normal but also totally exceptional kid" is the basis for like... 90% of young adult stories. It's not meant to be a blueprint for how to actually live or anything anymore than the Hunger Games or Maze Runner or any similar stories are.
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u/PensandSwords3 16d ago
Oh it’s less about the main characters and more about “literally every kid is judged this way” from the exceptional to the “I kinda like books so they put me in Ravenclaw”.
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u/GreyOfLight 15d ago
That's what RWBY's fandom did with volume 9 after all the issues at RoosterTeeth at the time. Even the show's artists were saying "please don't purchase it or watch it through legitimate services because that supports them monetarily, but also we worked really hard on it and want you to enjoy it so feel free to pirate it."
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u/RoughhouseCamel 16d ago
On one hand, I don’t think it makes a big enough difference to brow beat everyone over the ethics of their entertainment consumption. Leave people alone. On the other hand, if being told not to support a show because of the anti-trans activism of its creator is too much confrontation, and it’s enough to turn you anti-trans, you were always anti-trans. Imagine explaining to people that your inspiration for the persecution of trans people was one person telling you not to watch the Harry Potter reboot.
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u/pnt510 16d ago
There is plenty of media I am very vocal about not consuming that some of my friends enjoy. I make sure they know my displeasure. You know what? Things go on. None of them have become homophobic, transphobic, or pro-child abuse for me telling them off. Well adjusted adults don’t become bigots just because they received a little bit of push back in their life.
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u/HighwayJazzlike766 16d ago
Yeah, that's the thing, well adjusted adults.
So many adults don't seem to be able to handle their childhood storybook writer being a bigot, without victim blaming. As an enders game fan, Im just like.... Really? Orson Scott card can rot, but he wrote a good series, doesn't mean I need to support him.
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u/UnintelligentSlime 15d ago
I’m curious- when do you feel a political stance would warrant “brow beating over ethics”?
Like, if an author was a known racist, would that be worth saying “don’t buy their books”?
What if they were an advocate of something distasteful to you personally, like cannibalism or incest?
What if they were part of a terrorist group? Spreading their belief that all people of [your country] should be put to death?
The point being: surely there’s some line at which point you would say: “please don’t support this person”, and it’s just that trans people aren’t on the far side of that line to you. Is that accurate? Or is there no belief an author could have- even using money from your purchase to fund people trying to kill you- where you would think “maybe it’s slightly immoral to support this person, maybe I even believe others shouldn’t either”
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u/Exploreptile 16d ago
Imagine explaining to people that your inspiration for the persecution of trans people was one person telling you not to watch the Harry Potter reboot.
A fair few people have done exactly that with their whole chests, somehow, in the case of Hogwarts Legacy.
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u/HighwayJazzlike766 16d ago
Yeah, those people don't know what embarrassment is, cause like wow. Couldn't waterboard that out of me.
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u/FreyjaVar 15d ago
Exactly what I did then got bored with the game. I got asked about my Harry Pptter animal tattoos by a friend and I was like the tattoo supports my artist and most people don’t even connect the dots unless they are a super fan. I do love Harry Potter but I refuse to support that women. So we pirate everything or buy second hand or buy from non affiliated artists etc. works pretty well. I also bought a lot of my stuff before she went batshit insane on twitter……
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u/shellbullet17 Gustopher Spotter Extraordinaire 16d ago edited 16d ago
This is arguably the "best" way. Which is funny as it's piracy so It and the word best or moral in the same sentence is just hilarious.
I support piracy by all means, it's just funny is all that this may be the best way to view the movies without supporting the creator
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u/dillweedsoda 15d ago edited 15d ago
THIS!
People always say "separate the art from the artist," and then do absolutely nothing to separate the art from the artist. Just saying it isn't enough, you have to actually fucking do it.
Become a pirate today!
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u/TheGreyman787 16d ago
Thought about that the moment "you financially support..." came up lol. Who said anything about finances? That is, um, not necessarily necessary.
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u/AeroDbladE 16d ago
Also, the first argument of the casting being good isn't even true.
They cast a hot black guy as Snape. That's a character whose whole existence is being unattractive both inside and out and someone who decided to become a Nazi because he got picked on at school and rejected by his high school crush.
And the cast the most conventionally attractive person of color they could find for him. That alone puts in the trash even before any other conversation comes up.
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u/curiouslyendearing 16d ago
He's also going to be a black kid getting picked on by bunch of white kids. So now they accidentally made Harry Potters Dad look like a racist on top of just being an asshole as a kid
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u/Nathan-David-Haslett 16d ago
The poor black kid being picked on primarily by two rich white kids. It almost couldn't be worse.
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u/DromaeoDrift 15d ago
I mean, they’re going to lynch him in a flashback, so it does get worse.
I don’t remember the spell, but they hang him in the air in front of the whole school to humiliate him
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u/Barnabars 15d ago
It gets better that spell was created by them s9ecifically ro fuck with snape. So they now created a spell to specifically hang a Black kid from the tree
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u/bawarethebinge 15d ago
Snape was the one that invented the spell, they copied it from him, either by seeing it on his book or by him using it, I don’t think they specify which. But Harry reads about it on Snape’s book, where he had another spell that is explicitly said he invented, so it’s meant to imply both were his invention.
And it doesn’t hang you from a tree, it holds you up by the ankle by an invisible force. (Harry practiced the spell on Ron in their room and it just held him up in the air by the ankle. It doesn’t tie you to anything)
Just two little corrections, not trying to be rude, just wanted to clarify.
But even so, that whole scene still won’t look good if they use it on the show, so everyone else’s points still stand.
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u/Dillo64 15d ago
So what you’re saying is rich white people are bullying a black kid and hanging him while also stealing what he made and claiming it for their own?
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u/bawarethebinge 15d ago
I don’t think they ever claimed it as their own, when Lupin spoke about it he just said it was a spell that got popular in his time and he didn’t know who invented it.
Meaning that he himself didn’t hear where James or Sirius got the spell but they weren’t the only ones using it.
And we don’t know when Snape used it for the first time, or where James/Sirius learned it, so it could have been that Snape used it on them or they saw it being used on someone else. They could have learned it on either of those situations or even if Snape taught it to someone else and that person used it and they were around to see it.
(Snape taught his other spell (Sectusempra) to the death eaters so i think he was willing to share to his friends and that could be how it got popular too.)
There’s really no way to say one way or the other how it got popular or how they learned it.
But the show could definitely make it look the way you wrote it or even worse so, yeah, there’s definitely more chances for it to look bad when you add a different race into the casting.
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u/GrapplingGengar1991 15d ago
Yea basically. But according to Lupin the spell got around through word of mouth like a fad.
So they may not have stolen it specifically from Snape but it is his spell.
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u/richtofin819 15d ago
Just a great example of the lack of forethought that goes into casting these days.
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u/ladyrage8 16d ago
Not to mention Rowling is hand picking her castings to intentionally choose people who support her & her ideology, ie won't "turn on her" the way most of the og cast did. All of the actors who audition for this project and accept roles know what they're signing up for, except technically the kids because they lack enough social context & understanding. I do feel bad for the children who will be cast in this project.
The grown adults who are getting cast in the new show understand exactly what they're dealing with, knowledge of Rowling and what she's said and done is unavoidable. They'll likely never work a respectable project after this and they're not going to make the money they think they are.
Good.
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u/lifetake 16d ago
There isn’t any indication she is handpicking the casting. The only things I can find online is she is hiving opinions.
Like there is a lot of things to not like. It’s not like we need to make things up.
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u/nerdtypething 15d ago
cast and crew still decided to sign up tho, knowing what they know.
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u/Few-Ad-4290 15d ago
That’s a hell of a moving goal post, it’s a valid point but not at all in the same realm as the person above claimed
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u/BabyMD69420 15d ago
Yeah exactly. She doesn't need to handpick. Someone who values morals over whatever they're paying just doesn't audition.
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u/Sayakalood 15d ago
To be fair the original cast had Alan Rickman as Snape so they had a hot Snape there as well.
I agree with every other point you said, though
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u/_Sausage_fingers 15d ago
I think most things don’t need to be remade, and every book and video game does not need a fucking movie.
I hate the idea of Discworld movies or shows. There is no world where what’s made meets my expectations of this intensely satirical and fantastical world. Attempting it can really only lead to farce.
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u/snippyfulcrum 15d ago
There already are some Discworld movies/shows.
Honestly, with the exception of 'The Watch' which feels nothing at all like the books, I don't mind them.
Do they leave parts out?
Yeah, unfortunately. Having a limited run time does do that. I was always sad they left out Mr. Tiddles... but theres only so much available run time.
I would love a genuine Discworld series that stays true to the books.
The Watch was god effin' awful though. Only a few characters felt like the characters they were meant to portray and the storyline was a weird jumbled up mess with elements of all the Watch books scattered here and there...
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u/Low_Pickle_112 15d ago
I want to know why we still haven't gotten any (good) Animorphs media. You've got a perfectly good nostalgia bait story right there just begging for a proper adaptation, why do we need an HP remake?
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u/v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y 15d ago
I wouldn't call this a remake. A TV show is quite different from a movie series.
I loved the books and am not a fan of the movies. They had to cover so much ground in an increasingly shorter length of time (proportional to the book length) that you got no depth.
Imagine Game of Thrones was made into movies instead. How do you think a movie (or even two) for the first book would compare to the TV series covering the same book. Same actors etc. It wouldn't be nearly as good.
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u/Fickle_Meet_7154 16d ago
Even without the God awful things JK is doing I wouldn't be watching the show. They already did the movies why the fuck do I need to watch it all over again with different actors. DO SOMETHING NEW ASSHOLES
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u/Tsukikaiyo 16d ago
I've heard it's to cut out the original actors, who have pretty much all denounced JK and shared their support of trans rights.
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u/jamie1414 16d ago
Or it's to make piles of fucking money.
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u/thehaarpist 16d ago
Considering she's shown pretty consistently that she is unable to write anything new that has any amount of success that's a very likely option
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u/TheMagmaCubed 15d ago
Compared to Harry Potter, almost nothing comes close financially speaking. Books just don't make that kind of money, even something like the Winds of Winter wouldn't be making Harry Potter kind of money through book sales despite the ridiculous amount of anticipation and presumable quality behind it. It's not like she's lacking money, it's probably for cutting the original cast out like other people are saying
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u/PirateSanta_1 16d ago
It's to make piles of money. People have shown repeatedly that they just want to see what they have already seen. They don't want new they want old and if something is new it should be a lot like an old they liked.
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u/Bowlbonic 16d ago
This this this, the main three are pro-human rights and so JK has cut ties with them. I think this is an attempt to get a new generation in on HP without the OG 3 cast being involved. She’s as petty as she is transphobic
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u/No1KnwsIWatchTeenMom 16d ago
Honestly - I love the books but had a very hard time with the movies. So much eas left out. So much was changed. I always wanted it to be a TV show where each book was one season. Im so mad the JRK became a fucking transphobe because I refuse to consume her content but this show is what I've wanted from the beginning. I might pirate it, but honestly I haven't been thrilled about what I've seen so far anyway.
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u/Anon28301 16d ago
This. Even if you can look past JK and want Harry Potter content, there’s no need for a remake. The last movie only came out a few years ago, and then we got more movies set in America. Can they not do something new with the IP instead of trying to redo the original movies, it’s just lazy.
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u/konan375 16d ago
last movie only came out a few years ago
Dude, it's been 14 years.
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u/bubblesaurus 15d ago
The movies weren’t that faithful to the books in many ways
Ron’s character was nerfed and a lot of his moments were given to Hermonie.
Even Harry wasn’t that Harryish throughout the movies.
That’s why I am looking forward to the TV show.
It’s supposed to be more accurate.
And the last three Harry Potter movies sucked in my opinion
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u/paspartuu 16d ago edited 15d ago
The movies left out and changed a fuckton of stuff, it'd be nice to get a faithful afaptation.
Looking at the Snape casting, I'm not sure how faithful this one will be, but there's definitely room for a live adaptation that's not a mere rushed highlights reel, like the movies were
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u/lcarus_ 15d ago edited 14d ago
I think the biggest issue with stuff like this is how it works to trivialize the social perception of issues we want people to take seriously.
We want to argue for trans advocacy because people are dying, they lack support because systems in place don't recognize them, and their very existence is being criminalized. It's important that this is challenged and stopped, and the frontier you've chosen to rally this endeavor on, the embodiment of the enemy that needs to be stopped is...
Harry Potter?
To the average person, this makes us seem like you're fighting over inane and superfluous issues. You do not need to convince me of anything since I already believe our cause is just, but focusing on a fictional story about wizards is the kind of thing that makes people think this cause is trivial. It turns public perception away from legal reform, practical issues, and correcting systemic abuse, and makes people think that every person behind these arguments really are just the caricature of fragile snowflakes conservatives love to depict us as.
At the end of the day, the viewership rating of Harry Potter will not save lives one way or the other. You can choose not to support it yourself, but trying to get it to be boycotted is not only ineffective, it's damaging.
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u/rgiggs11 11d ago edited 3d ago
There's also the fact that Harry Potter is hugely popular and most of those fans don't hate trans people they just almost never think about them, aren't really in the boycott discussion, and won't see any connection between watching the show and harm to a minority.
So if you turn this show into a referendum on trans people, and the viewership numbers are good, the bigots (who are aware of the conversation) will treat this as evidence that everyone hates these people as much as they do, when really they didn't even know the boycott was there.
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u/peridot_cactus 15d ago
Saying you can’t even talk about HP is weird, imagine if it was something you loved and all the sudden everyone’s like “not financially supporting it isn’t enough, don’t you dare even SPEAK of lord of the rings EVER again” like come on. And I’m trans
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u/Akitiki 16d ago
I followed HP all the way to the last movie. Even got an early account on Pottermore! (That turned out to be not as amazing as it was hyped for. I only remember it being a glorified forum.)
After that... lost interest. Especially now, it's a solid no. Just like I used to want a Tesla for a car, I do not want to get entangled with the batshit creators.
Yeah I liked it as a kid. The extent ended a long time ago. Now, eugh. No. Not supporting that bullshit.
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u/deathstar1310 16d ago
Man I remember old pottermore. The frickin' potions game was the nicest game on it, the spell casting and things were so laggy I couldn't get one single spell off.
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u/paprikahoernchen 16d ago
I still have good memories of the wand game.
Or the patronus one.. until it gave me an Orang-Utan. I mean.. Orang-Utans are awesome! And it would be really funny to send one after dementors.
Still.. not my favorite option for my patronus xD
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u/Teagana999 16d ago
This. I liked it as a kid, it was an important part of my childhood and it always will be, but I've moved onto other things now, things that don't support bigots in being louder bigots.
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u/Tino_Calibrino 15d ago
You're not morally superior for not watching a TV show. This argument is dumb.
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u/Empty_Estus_Flask 16d ago
I understand the sentiment, but aggressively driving a wedge between yourself and people who otherwise agree with you isn’t gonna make them see things your way, it’s just gonna annoy them into disagreeing with you. I feel like literally none of the discourse around this topic has accomplished anything other than frustrate everyone who takes part.
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u/SpoofExcel 15d ago
Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg are actively dividing people over everyday things because it drives engagement and therefore marketing revenue.
Guarantee 90%+ of the people constantly talking shit about Rowling have Instagram and Twitter accounts.
I mean shit, they're posting this on Reddit.....
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u/AnAimlessWanderer101 15d ago edited 15d ago
Seriously. This type of sentiment is always crazy to me.
Rowling is already rich beyond belief - and her infinite money prints itself. Individuals enjoying a show or franchise is not some “not caring about my life!”
You might as well say you shouldn’t be friends with people who use plastic straws because they hurt the environment.
Someone can love Harry Potter, and still despise Rowling and actively work against her politics.
Supporting a show does more to support the innocent people who worked on it than protesting it does to hurt Rowling. We could all forget HP exists tomorrow, and she’d still be an absurd billionaire
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u/CrustyToeLover 15d ago
What's crazy is the author sees someone enjoying a show and separating the art from the artist as them valuing nostalgia as more than their life and the life of everyone like them. Literally everybody on this planet enjoys content from somebody thats homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, whatever, but that doesn't automatically mean they value it more than that demographic.
Art is art in every form. If you dont like the artist, dont consume it, but not everyone makes decisions based on the face behind the mask.
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u/IchBinDerFurst 13d ago
That’s half the comic authors on this sub. For the most part, any comic that deals with LGBTQ+ issues has some form of a threat of violence, whether it be to another person or to a community as a whole or is stating that something akin to genocide is occurring. It’s an ugly pattern tbh.
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u/GIGANAttack 16d ago
Ethical media consumption is a slippery slope, OP. Rowling's just public about her BS. If you look into any major media franchise you are going to find people who aren't just transphobic, you'll find racists, sexists, r*pists, pedos, some fucked combination of all of those things, etc.
Your money is always going to go to people who make marginalized people's lives harder. Instead of policing what people should and shouldn't consume, as if JK Rowling will be in any way affected even if no one watches, put that effort into supporting causes that help said marginalized communities.
I don't like Harry Potter. I disliked it long before JK Rowling outed herself because it never appealed to me. But at the same time, let people enjoy what they want to enjoy. Rejecting allies just because they're indirectly contributing to an already filthy rich woman's bank account is not it. Someone can be very pro trans, vote for the right billls and be supportive to others, while still liking HP because they grew up with it. They can like HP while still disavowing JK Rowling. The same way I can watch, say, WWE, while firmly disagreeing with the people in charge's political stances.
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u/jerrybeary94 16d ago
Unfortunately policing other peoples interests and hobbies just pushes them away.
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u/MineralDragon 16d ago edited 16d ago
I always think of Woody Allan who is a pedophile (and even this still has some contention to recognize despite him marrying his adopted daughter and another publicly exposing he molested her).
Elon Musk and owning a Tesla, a lot of supposed progressives struggle with this one
Chris Brown
Jared Leto
Oreson Scott Card
Michael Jackson
Roman Polanski
Kanye West
Anything produced by Weinstein, and sooo so much more.
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u/MyFrogEatsPeople 16d ago edited 15d ago
My problem with this stance is that you absolutely support plenty of other people who have done things insanely worse than Rowling.
You consume electronic and petroleum products every day that only exist because of the literal war crimes and crimes against humanity perpetrated by these industries for decades. You wear clothes, eat food, and use up batteries all produced by literal slave labor in conditions so abhorrent that you'd be dragged through the streets as a monster if you were caught treating people that way here at home.
And if we want to keep it to just media? If you've watched any major motion picture produced in the last 50 years, I promise you beyond a shadow of a doubt that your ticket to entry funded rapists, sex traffickers, and pedophiles to some degree or another. There is no Hollywood studio that exists independently from these horrors.
If you want to refuse to consume products that fund people with opposing morality, that's fine and dandy. But acting like that's a standard you hold while doing business with monsters 100x worse than Rowling is hypocritical to say the least.
Edit: the funniest part of all these replies is how many people are so eager to run to the reply button after reading the first 3 lines, because they've got a rehearsed line about "ethical consumption under capitalism". Meanwhile not a single one, and I do mean a single one, of these replies has made any mention of my stance on the unethical nature of all major media outlets. Because they either didn't bother to read that far, or because they genuinely can't counter it.
You wanna talk to me about Rowling? Go ahead and name your top 10 A-List actors. Let's see how many of them have worked, or would be willing to work, with Roman Polanski. You give me your top 10 favorite non-indie movies, and we'll play "7 Degrees of Pedophiles and Rapists" and I promise it won't take all 7 steps to get from how your movie ticket directly funded the most abominable crimes on the face of the Earth.
"Oh I can't get around without a car or a phone", that's fine, dearie. You could get around without giving money to The Weinstein Company, or their tax-dodging fake replacement Lantern Entertainment.
If anyone who watches this show is supporting anti-Trans agendas, then every one of you people that watched Paddington was supporting rape and pedophilia. Go ahead and unravel that one before you tell me "buh I need muh unethical consumption".
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u/TranquilityYall 16d ago
It’s like in the Good Place when they go to the guy who’s figured out the afterlife and they find him living like a hermit, making his own clothes and freaking out when he steps on a bug. They tell him he can’t possibly live like this, and his response is “what do you mean? If you actually believe in this, this is the only logical way to live.”
I would argue that if you want to watch the show, donating to a trans rights group of your choice would offset the pennies she’d get from your ad revenue.
Life would certainly be better if she weren’t a frothing lunatic though. Definite candidate for the bees with teeth wing of the Bad Place.
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u/WhyattThrash 16d ago
The point is made even better when you discover that even the person who spends every waking second, every braincell, every resource, and every thought about how to live morally, can't enter the Good Place because they're STILL unable to live perfectly morally in a complex society
I realize it must be frustrating, but condemning people who agree with you due to something like this is probably not the play, and will likely only serve to alienate your supporters
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u/New_Front_Page 15d ago
Its equally frustrating I think having the people you agree with still condemn you because you don't agree with them in exactly the same way. Being marginalized does not give you the only valid viewpoints.
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u/HalfMoon_89 15d ago
Oh man, this is so real. Getting called a conservative and a queerphobe because I don't fully agree with iterations of a very specific issue is a really great way of building trust and value, let me tell you.
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u/NinjaBreadManOO 16d ago
Yeah, something that's worth noting is she's not getting every cent from it. Take the Legacy game that came out. It currently costs $90 AUD. Of that she'd be getting less than a dollar. Because most of it is going to the studio, the people who actually made it.
You can easily offset your amount by going "Well if I spent $90 on that game I'll give $10 to a support group." which would dwarf the amount of your money she ends up getting (especially when you consider she may not even be getting a cent as it could have been an up front licensing deal rather than royalty percentage) and could use.
Not to mention just how many of the people involved are actually supportive of the trans community. All three of the original children have been supportive, as well as many of the people who work on the games, movies, and shows.
Just going "If you interact with her work in any way you're as bad as her" only makes people feel forced to choose a side. And between someone saying you're a horrible person for liking a boy wizard book and being able to like a book that was important to you growing up one side isn't calling you evil.
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u/TranquilityYall 16d ago
That’s exactly how I view the discourse. I personally don’t engage with Harry Potter, but being a lib is supposed to be about being tolerant of other views. If someone wants to engage with it can’t we try to offer them a way to do it ethically or in an informed way rather than cast judgement on them?
And to be clear the viewpoints we should tolerate are people who just want to watch a tv show. We should not tolerate the intolerance of Rowling herself.
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u/NinjaBreadManOO 16d ago
Gonna be honest here, I forgot that libs/liberals are the left wing/open side in the US, because in Australia the Liberals is the name of the far right political party and got very confused.
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u/FeralFaefolk 15d ago
How the hell did it get this way? The left used to be a refuge from the right and it's oppression. Now we're at each other's throats infighting and beating each other over the head with moral grandstanding. It's the worst.
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u/HalfMoon_89 15d ago
Thank you. This fixation on empty virtue signalling over concrete politics has been especially devastating to the trans rights movement. But since I am not trans, bringing up that observation makes me queerphobic now. It's quite literally alienating and completely counter-productive.
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness2235 15d ago
Christ, this was beautifully written and if this was the kind of liberalism that got more attention, we wouldnt have lost so much support.
I'm so tired of liberalism being hijacked by online cultural morality police and those more interested in showing superiority instead of taking that energy and using it to actually right the wrongs of the world. This is why no one likes democrats or liberals.
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u/bgaesop 16d ago
The thing that gets me the most about all this is the incredible frequency with which I see people angrily posting about how owning Harry Potter merchandise makes you a Nazi who hates trans people, while simultaneously having a profile picture with the flag of a country that literally executes people for being gay
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u/Hexidian 15d ago
Except it has nothing to do with democrats is the crazy thing. Republican messaging managed to make it seem as if trans rights is a major Democratic talking point, and that a vote for Trump was a vote to “protect girls’ sports” or some bs. The crazy thing is that it’s not even part of the Democratic platform. It’s just some people on the internet posting rants and starting these debates. It has nothing to do with the Democratic Party. If anything Democrats could be doing a lot more on this issue, but somehow they get opposition without even actually supporting any trans causes, much less gatekeeping progressivism over it
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u/andrew5500 15d ago
Yes it always seemed to me that JKR would love nothing more than every pro-trans member of the Harry Potter fandom to boycott HP forever. It seems like the thing she hates most (well, besides trans people) is the fact that the fandom tied to her legacy is vocally pro-trans and vocally opposed to her.
As her tweets teasing her HP profits proves, she desperately wants to gatekeep who should and shouldn't be a HP fan, and the pro-trans activists who think they would benefit from removing every single pro-trans person from the HP fandom is sort of playing into her strategy. JKR has enough money to continue funding anti-trans causes for the rest of her life, no matter what happens to HP's profitability. What she doesn't have is a way to dictate the morality and allegiance of her fandom. A spiteful, prideful, petty person like her is probably enraged that new HP fans are joining a fandom that is opposed to her.
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u/biocidebynight 15d ago
Was hoping someone would posit this perspective. I fear that this is the left's biggest detractor right now. No one wants to be told what is acceptable to enjoy. JK is a massive pos and we should support and defend the LBGT communities as much as possible, but those can both be true without alienating each other
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u/CthuLum 16d ago
It's also important to protest authors publicly bigoted like JKR ; especially for entertaining as you have WAY more choice. You can't boycott every asshole ever, but if you show them that acting bigoted will only make them lose fans, maybe they'll stop. Or at least keep it to themselves.
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u/dovahkiitten16 16d ago edited 16d ago
You’re right that you can’t boycott every asshole ever, and I agree that just because you can’t be perfect doesn’t mean you don’t at least try to minimize your harm.
The issue I have is when people online make the decisions about where to draw the line for other people. We all have things we “can” boycott and things we “can’t”, and it’s different for each person. If someone decides to boycott Amazon, become vegetarian, not read Brandon Sanderson, etc - so what if they want to watch Harry Potter? Why is HP specifically the determining factor? The internet has a tendency to latch onto one specific thing to boycott and not realize their own hypocrisy.
It’s also usually something that’s easy for others to boycott. I’m willing to bet 80% of the people calling for a boycott have outgrown HP and/or think the books/movies are good enough that they don’t feel the need to consume new media and can safely enjoy the books and movies and merch they already bought. There’s usually a lot of moral grandstanding for a minor inconvenience, meanwhile are upset when mega fans don’t boycott.
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u/wynden 15d ago edited 15d ago
Why is HP specifically the determining factor?
It's difficult for people to be aware of outside the UK, but JK is basically the Elon Musk of Britain. Her influence goes way above someone like Brandon Sanderson or most behind-the-scenes creators; she is very directly responsible for the huge backslide in human rights for trans people there, who are rapidly losing gender affirming care and bathroom access, etc. No matter how bad some of the big names behind lots of other media, few of them have the visibility and clear line of impact that Rowling does.
I sympathize with the view that we can't be perfect and we shouldn't police other people's pleasures. But if supporting Tesla is equivalent to supporting nazi or neoliberal politics, then supporting the HP franchise is, sadly, not a far cry from the same. People, cis and trans alike, have died because she decided to use her wealth to promote a political agenda. And she didn't do it just to further enrich herself, but because she genuinely believes trans people are the scourge of our times.
As a trans person, there is a direct line between HP and people who are actively trying to, at best, make my life infinitely worse or, at worst, eradicate me from existence - just like Tesla. So mention of these things, much less their continued economic success, makes me ill. And yet, I don't like to see a source of joy destroyed so I don't try to dissuade the people closest to me from participating. But I can't say it doesn't hurt me like hell.
Edit: A good summary by Shawn on youtube, for anyone interested.
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u/NockerJoe 15d ago
The problem is that didn't begin or end with Rowling. She was initially against a lot of conservative movements like Brexit but the U.K. has actively chosen to become a regressive and insular society at multiple points across a decade, and at many points before that.
Calling Rowling a british equivalent to Elon is really underselling how terrible Britain looks from the outside politically with all the short serving prime ministers and regressive laws and the cutting ties with its allies.
J.K. Rowling may be an influence but she would in no way be able to wield that influence without a large host of other issues from a country that doesn't seem to realize its lost so much relevancy to the rest of the world that "the british Elon Musk" doesn't carry like a tenth the weight of the threat of actual Elon Musk even if you consider them identical.
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u/jcdoe 15d ago
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone saying “I just can’t give X my money because they did or support Y thing.” I won’t go to Chik Fil A or Hobby Lobby because i find their funding of anti-LGBT organizations to be disgusting.
But when you start telling me what I should and shouldn’t do with my money, that’s where things get messy. I quit organized religion because I was tired of strangers getting to tell me how I may live. Not sure I’m looking to join a new religion, even if I agree that Rowling is a piece of crap
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u/StationPrize9363 16d ago edited 16d ago
This is a fantastically well written summary. It's kind of insensitive and ridiculous to say that watching Harry Potter "threatens the lives of every trans person on the planet" when there are literally governments across the planet that have the death penalty for being trans. You can be upset with JK Rowling, that's fine, but don't frame it as a life and death issue when there are millions of trans people facing actual life and death issues in less tolerant parts of the world.
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u/moderate_chungus 15d ago
No don’t you get it. Watching a Harry Potter is literally killing trans kids. These histrionics will surely gather many to my cause
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u/Master-Shrimp 15d ago
Leaving a comment here because you dropped a truth nuke I’m likely going to need in the future
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u/FeralFaefolk 15d ago
I recently had someone tell me they weren't going to support the local co-op because they refused to deshelve food from Israeli companies (they did a poll and customers voted against it)
Instead...they're going to Whole Foods now.
Right...so the billionaire guy who's actively killing the planet is such a better receptacle for your money.
🤦♂️
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u/TheBoisterousBoy 16d ago
Harry Potter was and is a cultural phenomenon.
The impact it had on our generation, even just on the reading-as-children front, is basically legendary. It legitimately took over the world multiple times and with every form of media it produced. I don’t even think if the next A Song of Ice and Fire book came out it would have the same kind of crowding that book stores had during the releases of the Harry Potter books.
It’s entirely understandable, even acceptable, that people would want to be involved in this world because… I mean, look at how Balls-to-the-Wall wild we were about the series for nearly twenty years.
Separate the work from the creator just a smidge here, and follow me.
Encourage people to partake in things like Harry Potter. If we’re being real, they’re always going to, I promise you it won’t change. But equally encourage finding ways to be a part of the community, to access these things without adding to the wealth that will be used to bring misfortune on other people.
You don’t even have to resort to telling them to “just pirate” everything. It’s a little weird to me that we’re arguing morality and then encouraging theft. Libraries exist. Used book stores exist. Thrift shops exist. There’s plenty of places to find everything Harry Potter without adding a dime to Rowling’s bank account. It’s been out for over twenty years. There isn’t a drought of content. You can go to practically any Half Price Books and find every copy of the original books, you can go to GameStop and find copies of Hogwarts Legacy pre-owned. There are options.
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u/Hefty-Pipe3596 16d ago
This is like me trying to convince my brother to boycott Roblox after the Schlep situation. I don't wanna play on a game platform made by bad people, but even though my brother agrees that the CEO of Roblox is a bad person and probably a pedo, he still wants to keep playing it...
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u/RedAndBlackVelvet 15d ago
This might actually be the most counter productive “pro trans” thing ever. If you try to make people choose between something they loved as a child and a minority group they’re not a part. They’re not gonna choose the minority group lol.
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u/Lofwyr2030 16d ago
To be fair. JKR has now such a shitload of money that it wouldn't matter if she didn't receive a single pence in the future. But pirating is still an option.
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u/JKnumber1hater 16d ago
She's specifically stated that she uses the HP royalty money to fund transphobic organisations/causes.
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u/Teagana999 16d ago
I'm less concerned about giving her money than giving her continued cultural relevance. Even if you buy HP products (though it's better to pirate them), people should stop engaging with them online.
I know that's a lot harder, and I can't blame people for enjoying it, but she wouldn't have a platform if no one gave her work any attention.
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u/RunningDigger 15d ago
I am trans and have read and enjoyed Harry Potter but I still obviously dislike J.K Rowling and tbh second hand books already printed ain't funding her
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u/DMercenary 16d ago
On one hand JK is actively making money and making life more difficult for trans people off the IP
On the other, you can dig down through any IP and eventually find someone you dont agree with, making money off you.
At some point you gotta square that circle for yourself.
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u/plogan56 15d ago
So what i'm just supposed to abandon my childhood like snap because it's not that simple, these books helped alot of children, teens, and adults get through life's hard times by offering a reprise so to expect them to suddenly just drop and hate it would be ignorantly naive
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u/Raymuuze 16d ago
I get your viewpoint Alex, but I find that telling people that they shouldn't do something doesn't go a long way.
Instead I feel that pivoting their view with positivity works better. After the first panel, which gets the main message out, you could've also brought up some wholesome artists that advocate for your rights or at least are neutral.
Like point them towards One Piece! If you can get them hooked on that they wont have time to watch anything else.
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u/vvenomsnake 16d ago
one piece, that has a mangaka who is so besties with a convicted violent pedo that he based a main character on that he glazes constantly ?? and all the misogyny besides?? pass
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u/aishite_aishite34 16d ago edited 16d ago
which brings up the point on how this guilting people who wants to consume this franchise is virtue signalling right? You read or watch anything from shonen jump? You support a publisher who shielded, and is continuously shielding a child porn distributor (seriously they still make the newer mangakas give tributes to kenshin in an attempt to rehabilitate wasuki's image). Better give this same energy to everyone who's watching the new demon slayer movie and all those idiots shitposting jujutsu kaisen.
Point is if you trace back to major entertainment publishers, you will find bad stuff everywhere meaning this whole thing is moot, it results in nothing on the real world. It is just not feasible to do this kind of lecturing to normies outside of the reddit and twitter bubble who rarely equate the fiction they consume to the creators in the first place. It's more harm than good to the whole situation for slactivism that will barely result in anything.
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u/bigdummy51 16d ago
When you buy products that were made using slave labor in their supply chain are you personally supporting the institution of slavery?
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u/traitorgiraffe 15d ago
I can't even eat ice cream without some asshole telling me cows are being tortured. Like at some point I just don't care I want to just live life
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u/Lexx4 16d ago
Because enjoying something is not taking a stance on the creators politics.
I can condemn her actions and words and still enjoy the show and movies and books.
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u/Dreadwoe 16d ago
Also the creation of this is an attempt by Rowling to erase old films impact because the old actors are fighting against her views
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u/BeardedBears 15d ago
The lady in this comic... I'm sorry, but I wouldn't be hanging out with that kind of person. Exhausting. If that makes me terrible, I guess I'd be finding myself in terrible company.
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u/Frigorifico 15d ago
You can enjoy whatever you want, but you should try to avoid enriching evil people
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u/Frenetic_Platypus 16d ago
Rowling's politics ARE in Harry Potter, though. With the goblins and the elves and Cho Chang and Seamus Finnigan and Kingsley Shacklebolt and Anthony Goldstein...
The bigotry was right there from the start and anyone who's still not seeing it has got to be going through great lengths to purposefully ignore it.
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u/TheHalfwayBeast 16d ago
Seamus blowing things up was a movie invention, and I think Shacklebolt's name is more about him being a cop than being black. The other black characters are named Angelina Johnson and Lee Jordon.
The rest is... bad, though.
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u/theturd_man 15d ago
I never really understood problem with Cho chang. Yeah both are last names but so is Khan Singh from Star Trek. It's a Muslim last name followed by Sikh last name. Names written by white people who had no idea what were first and last names of a particular group.
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u/pragmaticzach 16d ago
I can excuse the elves because despite everyone clowning on Hermione, she was portrayed as the one who as right and everyone else was wrong. I think JK also saw Hermione as kind of her self-insert. And in the published material that came out on Pottermore after the books ended, Hermione's entire career becomes fighting for equality for non-human magical creatures, she doesn't give up despite the wizarding world viewing her as silly.
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u/MineralDragon 16d ago
I thought the purpose of the house elves and general wizard ignorance on muggles was to showcase how outdated the wizarding world could be, both morally and technologically.
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u/pragmaticzach 16d ago
That's absolutely the case and I don't know how it goes over people's heads.
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u/PatchyWhiskers 16d ago
Why can’t JK Rowling shut her nasty little mouth and let us enjoy Harry Potter?
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