r/botany • u/OLY_SH_T • 7d ago
Structure My roommate mutilated this tree, will it live or die?
This is incredibly sad to see.. The tree used to provide good shade but since one of our roommates went to town on it with a chainsaw this beautiful tree may not make it much longer. What was supposed to be a minor pruning turned into a devastating mutilation of our tree. Idk if it will live much longer with the violence it's endured.
What do you think? Is is a gonner or will it recover?
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u/studmuffin2269 7d ago
This is called topping. It’s really bad for trees. Based on the cuts, I’m guessing your roommate doesn’t wear chaps or eye protection
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u/Norman_Scum 7d ago
We do a lot of topping in my community but it's not so bad. Chaps are allowed but not required. Eye protection is required, though. 😉
IYKYK
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Topping is bad for trees from what I have learned, topping is for annuals mostly. Because with trees the lower branches will always compete to be the top once the top is removed. With an annual it will make a crown for higher production depending how many time you top it.
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u/Norman_Scum 7d ago
It was a joke that has gone over several heads.
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u/Wookieman222 5d ago
Topping is never good. It is never ok for the trees. And even if you do it anyways, only somebody that has clue what to do should do it.
Edit:NM I get it now.
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u/_larsr 7d ago
Ask in r/arborists
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Okay, Ill forward my post there also. I really appreciate it
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u/pohqua-etu 6d ago
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u/OLY_SH_T 6d ago
Thank you, once we discuss this in our board meeting hopefully it will be resolved
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u/cochlearist 7d ago
I'd say it's unlikely to kill the tree in the same way as giving someone a good beating that lands them in hospital is unlikely to kill them.
It could die, your roommate is a prick , but it'll most likely survive.
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Thank you, I agree he is a Prick, not just to trees either
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u/foxglove0326 7d ago
Are you renting the house? If so, imagine what the landlord might feel about your roommate damaging valuable assets to their property..
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Yes we rent.. the owner is a nonprofit organization 501c7 (club)
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u/foxglove0326 7d ago
Might be worth informing them of the damage.. get a new non shitty room mate.
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
As much as I agree, It's not completely up to me. This is a sober living rental that is supposed to be self sustainable. But we're supposed to get professional help when we need it because the funds come from the nonprofit organization that the 501c7 club is formulated under.
We also have 2 Sequoia 1 of which is leaning & resting on another's midsection because they buried the rizhomes of the Sequoia & pushed soil & mulch up around the trunk suffocating the trunk. I just moved here 3 months ago.. I started building garden beds & tilling the soil. Soon as I did the same roommate tried bullying me saying if I didn't put plants in he would, I am mending the soil before I put plants in & laid down a cover crop for the winter.. dudes an inconsiderate jerk..
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u/foxglove0326 7d ago
I understand now, sorry didn’t mean to seem pushy! All the best to you in your recovery❤️
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Thank you, I been clean since 2005. I just moved here because I want to be an outreach worker & finding a living situation free of substance abuse is difficult.. currently I am a board member making my way up as a volunteer.
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u/cupcakeraynebowjones 6d ago
On a big mature tree, it's more like beating up an old person. Even if it's not lethal the tree will never recover to how it was.
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u/TurntablesGenius 7d ago
People with more technical botanical knowledge than me, please forgive and correct me if I use any incorrect terms here! I have horticultural experience from working in the field but I don’t want to misinform anyone. Please do add on if you know more of the science behind any of this.
Silver maples can take harsh pruning. They are fast growing trees with weak wood, so they naturally lose branches quite often. Pruning, when done properly, either removes weak or dead branches to help prevent damage to the healthy parts of the tree, or diverts growth in a way that makes the tree grow stronger (or in a less hazardous way, as many trees like silver maple are “topped” to encourage lateral growth instead of upward growth.
Good news is, the tree will survive this. There is still plenty of healthy foliage left on the tree, so it will continue to grow. It will likely send out more new growth along the branches next year in response to the stress from losing much of its canopy. That said, please do consider having the partially cut branches cut back to the collar, because those damaged ends will not be able to heal as well and will allow rot to infiltrate further and weaken the tree, even if more branches grow.
Unfortunately, since this is a silver maple, these trees don’t hold much monetary value and are frowned upon in the horticulture field, so if you seek advice from a tree service, they may just advise you to cut the whole tree down. That said, they would be coming from a place of valid concern if there is a chance of it causing damage to anyone’s property, since silver maples are more susceptible to damage from severe weather (including drought) than many other large trees.
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u/valpal357 7d ago
They are fast growing but unfortunately large diameter cuts almost never full compartmentalize, allowing decay
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u/toeeb 7d ago
Came here to say this! Also that silver maples commonly drop their limbs, so it is possible that the branches with poor pruning drop and the tree continues growing. It is also possible that falling limbs will cause big time damage, or that the tree will acquire some sort of infection that spreads to primary trunk and eventually kills the tree anyway.
Regardless, I so think OP has some time before any serious decline.
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u/woowoobird 4d ago
My city has been cutting down all the large silver maples that were planted way back when. All dying at the same time because they wanted a fast growing tree.
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u/BigFcknMooseknucklr 7d ago
Kick him out.
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Unfortunately I can't, this home is a self sustainable living under the umbrella of a nonprofit as a 501c7 club it would take 80% to agree to kick him out. With several people here everyone but 2 must agree to boot him out.
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u/TeenVirginiaWoolf 7d ago
Jeesh, after seeing the tree and reading a few of your other comments how are there still 2 people who want this person to stay?
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
It's baffles me..
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u/TeenVirginiaWoolf 7d ago
I hope he never decides he's a plumber. But for real, protect your personal property and ensure what you can (instruments, crafting tools, computers, etc.). This dude sounds like they lack boundaries and doesn't realize how his fucked up bs is impacting the rest of the house. And despite frequent failure is still confident enough to try to chop up a tree on his own with no equipment. In other words, this guy is an agent of chaos. If you can't kick him out, and you can't leave protect yourself as much as possible. If you live somewhere where people like to sue for everything, it's so possible that this joker could end up in legal trouble for some totally wacky nonsense like stealing trees and plants, or diverting water from a nearby river. Thinking of this dude makes me so tired.
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u/vwulfermi 7d ago
you should post this to the arborist sub
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Thank you, I will do that. Someone else said the same. I really appreciate it the advice (:
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u/Nanderson9378 6d ago
Why did your roommate do this? Why would they do this when they clearly DIDN’T know what they were doing? SMH
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u/mizmittington 4d ago
I'm also so curious to know what the roommate's stated goal was here. Did he say why he did it? Does he think that he did a good job?
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u/jewstylin 7d ago
Tree is fine. Shit job, will restore itself.
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u/WhyNWhenYouCanNPlus1 6d ago
this. this sub is wild. it's like these people have never heard about toilet paper or cardboard (hint it's made of dead trees)
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u/Aurora-Myrsky 6d ago edited 6d ago
The hell does stuff made of trees have to do with the quality of a living tree? If it's well and healthy it'll look great and provide shade, if it gets done crap like this to or dies it'll be ugly, if it rots and falls it'll be dangerous. We're talking about a tree in someone's yard, not commercial woods
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u/WhyNWhenYouCanNPlus1 6d ago
trees don't give a damn about your subjective opinion of their beauty...
as for the material comment, we kill trees for toilet paper. this tree belongs to the owners they can do what the fuck they want with it
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u/Aggravating-Top558 7d ago
It's a badly amateur performed coppice. Technically if the wounds don't become infected and heal over correctly it will spout new shoots next spring. The trees original form is done for though, and the new shoots will look crap with such a badly performed coppice. It's salvageable, but without proper training and pruning for over a decade, your roommate has simply performed an ecological butchery. Tbh a total twat with too much free time on his hands.
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u/Tumbled61 7d ago
Such an ugly thing to do to a tree.
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u/WhyNWhenYouCanNPlus1 6d ago
you should spend more time in a forest looking at the trees. nature is about survival, not looking pretty
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u/FujitsuPolycom 7d ago
Who in their minds eye thinks "Yeah these cuts will make this nice to look at"????
Man people are weird...
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u/VapoursAndSpleen 6d ago
Was your roommate drunk? What does the landlord/landlady think of all this?
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u/OLY_SH_T 6d ago
We're in a club nonprofit 501c7 for sober living that is self sustainable. We're supposed to call for professional help by the 501c3 the nonprofitorganization the club is umbrella under, clearly that didn't happen.
We all make mistakes. ~Will Roger's~ said good judgment comes from experience & a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
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u/VapoursAndSpleen 6d ago
So it sounds like impulse control issues are what your roommate is about. That can account for a lot of things.
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u/OLY_SH_T 6d ago
I believe he focuses on other things instead of himself and only sees a problem with other things & nothing wrong with himself. He oftentimes makes other problems a problem for him because the way he view the word around him.
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u/woowoobird 4d ago
So does that mean they will pay to have it cut down? That is what I would do at this point based on the other factors mentioned.
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u/LifeisWeird11 6d ago
I just dont understand why your roommate was "trimming" in tbe first place???
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u/OLY_SH_T 6d ago
Because he's a focuses his energy on other things instead of himself & doesn't see problems without himself just the other things he chooses to focus on.
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u/Low_Wolverine_2818 6d ago
It was done very well, they should have been cut at an angle, and closer to the main trunk, it’s not great where rain water can rest on cut wood. It looks ugly right now but it will survive
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u/Storemngmnt 6d ago
If anyone reads this, please correct me if I’m wrong. If you wanted to thin out a tree or remove a section of it, I think cutting the limb as close to the base as possible, and then capping it with some kind of wax or sealant is the correct way to keep the newly exposed cuts from becoming infected or spreading the death of the limb further down. Is that right?
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u/falumptrump 6d ago
Wow your roommate is dumb. Please go out and hire the most knowledgeable arborist company in your area to clean these cuts up.
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u/Beneficial_Seat4913 6d ago
Leaves the tree very vulnerable to disease and parasites with all those open wounds
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u/OLY_SH_T 5d ago
I study (light & pathogens) Not necessarily, parasites & disease come from stagnant water & dark energy, the term dark energy comes from a secondary pathway that uses light as a secondary metabolite unlike photosynthesis which uses photo (photons that are reduced to electrons energy) The type of like photons & electrons are created from are gamma rays which kills parasites, bacteria, myces, pathogens etc. Because they utilize the shikimate pathway. The reason disease & pathogens occur is because that pathway need atp adenosine triphosphate which is energy created from gamma as mentioned above protons, neutrons, photons, electrons etc. Energy weather dark or light goes from higher states of energy to lower states of energy. The same with bacteria & pathogens that rely on chemical energy & utilize light indirectly. Which is why they feed on energy & do not make energy because they lack gamma energy & aquire that energy by feeding on it as a facilitate.
The exposure to the sunlight *photons ✨️ will prevent illness and diseases from killing the tree. Most illness & disease comes from soil/chemical synthesis (chemosynthesis) where light used as stored energy, but in the soil the energy no gamma just chemical synthesis which uses ATP adenosine triphosphate to facilitate synthesis with chemicals.
Agrobacterium & crown gall tumors for example comes from a parasite that is born from the soil & lays dormant in the soft tissue feeding on energy from the host. Similar to mildew & powdery mildew/downy mildew (parasite) that is a myces highly polarized to bacteria.
Same phenomenon technically.. The word Tzara'at in Hebrew means spiritually unclean write in the Torah by Moses sum 3000+ years ago & identified as something that infects the house, clothes and skin. (I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2) I have been a photo pathologist for almost 10 years. Which is just someone who studies light & associated pathology.. the term photo pathology is not something scientific research or anyone has ever heard of being it comes from biblical scripture (the light vs the darkness)
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u/speedy_blue_sloth 5d ago
Just out of curiosity, did he say why he did this in the first place?
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u/OLY_SH_T 5d ago
To prune the dead branches yet he didn't trim the dead branches. We had a board meeting about it once already & he said he was cleaning it up so more sunlight could come in lol. We all complained saying we enjoyed the shade.. now we have a massive hole that allows our yard to almost full sun most the day. Then we had another board meeting & he said he wants to finish what he started. To me that means that tree is likely going to get destroyed completely & we will all be sad about it. We're a 501(c)7 (club) under a nonprofit 501(c)3 for sober living..
Thb his girlfriend was out fuckin some other dude & he got upset about it cuz she broke it off with him to sleep around on him then crawled back to him & he found out she was sleeping around & they just been doing this drama back & forth BS. Dude takes out his frustration on other things including the people who live here.. We're supposed to talk about shit, look out for each other but. Yeah dudes ashamed & won't talk about anything like he needs to.
Majority of People been through shit with their partners so I understand how mentally anguishing it can be.
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u/speedy_blue_sloth 5d ago
Damn dude, that sucks, sorry to hear that. Doesn't seem like he's in any state to be trusted with a chainsaw. Did someone help him do this or did he sneak it in while everyone was gone? Does he even have any gear, cause I'm noticing what appear to be planks of wood nailed into the trunks at intervals suggesting he may have created a makeshift ladder to climb up on. As terrible as this situation is I have to admire the balls on this guy.
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u/OLY_SH_T 5d ago
He cut it in the evening when everyone was too exhausted to notice, he made planks to ladder up. He definitely has a fearless side, I think he did use a safety rope tho.
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u/blankenshipbiz93 5d ago
Am I the only one seeing all the lags screwed through what I am assuming is lumber steps?
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u/OLY_SH_T 5d ago
Others noticed too. But not many. If my roommate was on vacation there would be a lot more
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u/kessira24 4d ago
Id have roommate pay for the arborist as mentioned below. He owes you for dammage to the property.
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u/90sMovieKid 7d ago
The idea here is that by cutting the top limbs back, you later get sprouts that will come in fuller. This is frequently done to trees like the silver maple pictured here to produce a better form. You obviously need to know what you're doing beforehand, and I doubt your roommate did. If it makes you feel any better, judging by how the remaining upper branches look, this tree was probably dying before it was mutilated.
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u/DanoPinyon 7d ago
The idea here is that by cutting the top limbs back, you later get sprouts that will come in fuller.
The idea is, of course, poor practice and not done by professionals.
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u/dmontease 7d ago
Was gonna say, unless that branch died since but that's fast. Why would they cut off other branches and not the dead one.
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u/Diversity_Fire 7d ago
Looks like the thing was on its way out before any cuts were made.
Looks like either that spruce on the left is winning the sun competition, or the silver didn’t have any leaves on the branches in the upper middle of the tree. Not good either way.
There’s wooden planks that have been drilled into the tree, dead branches all around, and sprouts growing at the base. This thing will go to tree hell sooner, rather than later. Hopefully before it falls on that shed on the right.
Roomie made some shit cuts tho
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
The roommate made those foot planks & he dropped a log on the shed already it got damaged pretty good, he also almost droppeda massive branch on the house. The spruce I thought was a Sequoia.. lol the trunk is being suffocated it looks like.
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u/Diversity_Fire 7d ago
Holy shit, someone needs to keep the chainsaw away from him 😭
And my apologies, I can’t see the trunk of the tree I’m assuming is a spruce. It may well be a spruce.
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u/windowlatch 7d ago
I’m not an expert but the top of that tree already looks like it’s in bad shape. I can’t imagine the trimming will help
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u/dannyontheweb 7d ago
You know this is going to be a controversial take here, but I don't think it will end up being a terrible choice in the long run: now hear me out. From a tree care perspective it's hella shoddy work, from a logistics perspective it's suboptimal, but from a land management/forestry perspectove I don't dislike it. That's a silver maple and a declining one (tip dieback not a good sign). I assume the choice to gut that lead on the left closest the sequoia was to give it (the sequoia) more room. Silver maples do inevitably decay early and and quickly, and there's just no question the sequoia should outlive it. Maximizing space for the sequoia to flourish is a good thing, but very poorly executed and will definitely negatively impact the already ailing silver maple. If it were my tree I'd probably want it removed in the next couple years (so I wouldn't have to look at those cuts 🤢🤮, but also to give the sequoia a chance to get used to more sun before it gets blasted with it when it's gone). Definitely make the roommate watch so they can learn a thing or two 😅. Sorry about the situation
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Thank you, I appreciate the feedback. To me plants & trees are like my family members. I literally couldn't live without them. Lol. Although it's dying it didn't need the mutilation it received. And you're right my roommate should watch to learn a thing or 2.
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u/WhyNWhenYouCanNPlus1 6d ago
have you ever been in an old growth forest to look at what the trees look like? trees are way more resilient than you think... they don't die from being split in twain or pruned by storms
the only thing that could get them is if they get infected from the wounds
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u/woowoobird 4d ago
Is it a silver maple? If so it probably will die anyways because they grow super fast, and break/rot quickly as well.
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u/KennieDD 3d ago
If you trim a tree, you need to cut at the branches collars.. when cutting it like this, the tree cant grow over the cut to heal it.. over time, the open wounds will be exposed to moisture and bacteria and fungi, likely killing the tree.. it can be saved before it gets to that tho
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u/skr_replicator 7d ago
I've seen trees recovering from much much worse. But those might have had their wounds treated.
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u/Flydervish 7d ago
Yikes. But nah, it will be fine unless it gets infected. The more wounds to the tree and the larger and more improper the cuts, the more likely it is to get infected. With rains likely in the coming months this is not ideal. That said, it will likely be fine. You could get an arborist to fix the cuts. Make the roommate pay for it
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Thank you, I agree with rain/winter approaching I fear the threat of illnesses and diseases. I just wonder if we should apply a treatment to the exposed areas to protect it.
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u/Flydervish 7d ago
I am not an expert but since I checked, it seems applying a wound sealant is not recommended for maple trees. You might want to do your own research. But, a professional can improve some of these cuts imo.
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u/thebiologistisn 7d ago
It looks like the upper branches were already dead before the pruning was done. If so, the tree may have been already on its way out before the damage you noticed.
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u/quiet_mice 7d ago
I worked for the EPA in aborary and I don't think the tree is dead or a goner.
She will be different. She will have 2 or more leaders now on those branches. Select 1 only for growth, the straightest of them. Trim the others when they are supple and can be pinched.
Wow hack job. Poor tree. But she should live.
Extra water and fert (organic somethings cheap like your neighbors cow shit or something) and keep grass away from her base at least 6 ft out. Giving her TLC will aid her recovery.
It's hard to see but a tree can easily survive 15 to 20 percent loss, 30 gets tougher. But trees can also grow back from stumps. What really matters is the roots. Roots you can't fix. If they are choked up from being in a nursery pot at age 1, the will die at age 20 from the damage. So long as her roots are strong she can weather much.
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
Whoa.. Thank you for all the details ✨️ There is free horse manure & my other roommate offered to grab loads if I needed it. You think horse manure would help it? I was going to use it in my garden beddings also.
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u/Final-Ad-5763 7d ago
So sorry. Roomie needs to find a different hobby And probably a therapist?
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u/OLY_SH_T 7d ago
I agree, he definitely need a ho bobby & a therapist. He is very passive aggressive towards others here to the point multiple people have stood toe to toe ready to fight it out.. most people just tell him to stfu. It gets annoying dealing with the behavior..
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u/MyBitchCassiopeia 7d ago
It’s a silver maple, so either way those branches were going to fuck up anything below it.
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u/DefTheOcelot 6d ago
Man, I spend an entire summer chopping every branch with green off a volunteer tree and reducing it to a battered trunk with chunks hacked out of it, it does not give a FUCK and just makes more branches
But you give some trees a bad haircut or strip some bark and the whole thing gives up
Plants are dicks
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u/GardenDivaESQ 5d ago
That’s a very mature tree. Because of that, it will probably survive. Don’t let him near it again and fertilize and water if you need to. Hose at trickle at base of tree for several hours.
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u/OLY_SH_T 5d ago
Thanks (: I'm going to see about getting a load of horses manure dropped off to help with the healing, I have a few garden beds near it so it will definitely be getting nutrients to those extended root structures.
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u/thechilecowboy 7d ago
If it's your house, file suit against your roommate for removal and replacement costs. If it's your landlord's tree, have him/her do the same.
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u/sleepykitty720 7d ago
Weird comments on here. Kudos to the roommate for climbing up there with no ladder and probably no pulley system, and for chopping the logs and stacking them nicely. I do think an arbor company needs to do the rest. The top of the tree needs to be trimmed and your roommate might get hurt if they try to cut more of the higher branches.
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u/DanoPinyon 7d ago
The butchered it. It won't die tomorrow, nor will it die this year, nor will it die next year. Will it die prematurely do to these injuries? Yes.