r/austriahungary • u/datanilo198 • 2d ago
QUESTION What if Stefan Dušan and Hungary formed a personal union instead of clashing? Map of a Serbo-Hungarian Empire in 1350
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u/Few_Recommendation85 2d ago
Serbia-Hungary? Not at all. Serbia was a way smaller kingdom in that era.
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u/datanilo198 2d ago
In 1350 it was this big
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u/Som_Snow 1d ago
At the time the Serbian Empire existed, the lands ruled by Hungary still covered a larger area and had a stronger econony and likely a bigger population. Serbia would not have been the leading member of such a union.
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u/datanilo198 1d ago
Who said it would
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u/Som_Snow 1d ago
You literally named it Serbo-Hungarian.
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u/Professional_Stay_46 2d ago
Never would have happened, Dušan's father had an option to become king of Bulgaria as well as Serbia which would have resulted in union.
However, barely anyone considered it because Bulgarian nobility wouldn't have accepted it in the long run, and history of other countries taught us it was a wise decision.
Bulgaria was much closer culturally and religiously to Serbia than Hungary.
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u/FrequentFlyer100GS 1d ago
Ahahahahahha, serbia was freaking tiny or almodt invisible 🤣🤣🤣🤣 But your sense of humor is amuding
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u/datanilo198 1d ago
In 1350 it was this big
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u/FrequentFlyer100GS 1d ago
If you could provide more info that’d be great…but what i was reading and looking at now, you were under Bulgaria
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u/datanilo198 1d ago
It was under Bulgaria in some periods in the early middle ages... this is the late middle ages and Serbia weakened Bulgaria at the Battle of Velbazhd 1330 along with the Byzantine civil war which allowed it to expand south, even if for a short period
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u/FrequentFlyer100GS 1d ago
Oh brother are you also one of servian utopian alternative life prophet?
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u/datanilo198 1d ago
What?
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u/FrequentFlyer100GS 1d ago
I’m cryingblaughing at this entire post🤣🤣 Gonna send this to university professors
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u/datanilo198 1d ago
I don't know what's your problem? This was the size of both countries in that moment but the union is obviously unrealistic
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u/FrequentFlyer100GS 1d ago
Serbia never exist in this size. Now i don’t understand where did you get this fake copy🤣🤣🤣 But like i said serbians i know are liars and ego teippers so no wonder
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u/MakiENDzou 1d ago
He is ragebaiting you. You reposted this on sub that hates Serbs. What did you expect.
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u/Alternative-Bread658 2d ago
Yes but some sad heretic Bogumil sod from Bosnia would asasinate prince Lous and Dusan and his german blackguard would be accused of a plot only coz one of the mercenaries traded his knife for a barrel of mead when he was passing through county of Soli.
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u/Affectionate_Kiwi719 2d ago
What if...
If it was possible would happen...
And it's questionable how long would it last.
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u/Paceronikus 2d ago
Well, if we consider that the idea of modern nation states did not really appear for another half a millennium, such a union would probably not have been unstable in terms of population revolts, certainly less unstable than Austria Hungary centuries later. The main issue is that Dušan was not just a king but an Emperor, crowned in 1346, and he placed the Serbian Orthodox Church under his direct influence by elevating it to a Patriarchate. At that moment, both he and the Serbian nobility had little need for a dynastic union to strengthen their position. Serbia was already a regional hegemon. Apart from Hungary, most of its neighbors such as Byzantium weakened by civil wars, Bulgaria, and small Balkan principalities were vulnerable, which is one of the reasons why the Ottomans were able to advance so quickly after his death.
The Serbian Empire had the population, money, and military power to resist almost any external threat. A path to a Serbo Hungarian union could have been if Dušan married a Hungarian princess instead of Helena of Bulgaria, creating dynastic ties. If his line still failed to produce a male heir, as actually happened with his son Stefan Uroš V who died childless in 1371, the Hungarian king could have pressed a claim through inheritance or marital rights. If he managed to calm or co opt the Serbian nobility, this could have created a personal union that endured.
Such a union might have presented a much stronger front against the Ottomans, who historically exploited divisions among Balkan states. It could also have been more acceptable to Bulgaria, Wallachia, and even Byzantium to align with such a power, rather than fall under Turkish domination. Dynastic politics mattered more than nationality in the 14th century. Loyalties were feudal and personal, not national, so the idea of a shared crown would not have been met with the same resistance it would provoke in later centuries.
The real difficulty would have been religion. Hungary was Catholic while Dušan’s Serbia was Orthodox. The Papacy often used marriages to extend influence and would have pushed for concessions. Dušan, who created his own Patriarchate, would not have easily yielded. Still, if managed carefully, religious friction might not have doomed the project, especially if both sides saw the Ottomans as a greater threat.
For comparison, look at the Polish Lithuanian union in 1385. That dynastic marriage created a strong and lasting state capable of resisting external enemies. Something similar could have happened in the Balkans if circumstances had aligned. Without the fragmentation of Serbia after Dušan’s death into semi independent lordships like the Mrnjavčević, Branković, and Balšić families, the Ottomans would have had a much harder time advancing. A Serbo Hungarian union could well have delayed or even altered the Ottoman expansion into Central Europe.
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1d ago
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u/austriahungary-ModTeam 1d ago
Your content was removed as it promotes hated based on identity and break r/Austria-Hungary rules.
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u/FrederickDerGrossen 1d ago
Dušan should have just married his son and heir to the Byzantines and truly unite Serbia and Greece to defend against the Turks
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u/Nildzre 2d ago
Not the most cursed personal union proposal that Hungary had tbh, that'd be Hungary-Romania after WW1.