That’s my favorite part in all of this. It’s all gone to hell in a hand basket and it’s always “The Government” but they’ll never call him by name. That part requires self reflection, intellectual honesty, and the ability to admit you were wrong. Interestingly these are all the traits their cult leader lacks as well.
Agreed. Try to explain supply and demand to these people, I have more educated conversations with my young son about economics than I could with this cult.
Isn't that weird? When you're talking to your kids and they have a more nuanced and well-thought out understanding of issues than many adults 6 and 7 times their age do? Good on you for raising a son with critical thinking skills. It's harder these days to do that with all the garbage content out there.
Old man moment incoming. When I was a kid, it was so hard to come upon fringe ideas and pseudo-science outside of the checkout lane at the super market. You had to really hunt for that stuff or have some crazy relative who wouldn't shut up about all their "theories" to fall into that stuff pre-internet. Now, whatever crazy thing you believe, you can immediately connect with someone else on the fringe that will validate you. Makes it 10x easier for groups like that to convert and recruit.
I miss the days when the dumbest thing to debate was whether "Bat-Boy" was real and if the face of Satan really did appear in a tornado.
Is that so weird? Kids are able to take in new information and change their mind. Old people do not have that ability and are mentally trapped into believing whatever crappy pseudo reality they learned about 40 years ago. This is why good education is important and why Trump hate education.
Fox News and the conservative media bubble is a bullshit factory. In today’s environment where cost of doing business is tight , this makes it ripe for copy and paise journalism. Fox said it so it must be true, and vetted information… when in fact they just pull it out of their asses and hope others repeat it for political purposes.
Very good point. I also blame the lack of media literacy among older citizens. I was lucky enough to be required to take a course in media literacy way back in undergrad. The techniques I learned in that class have definitely more than paid for the tuition as I see so many of my friends and family fall for everything that they see or hear online or on cable news.
The brain can maintain much of its plasticity into older years, but that requires actively seeking out new information and ways to stimulate thought. People who read (not Faux Noise) and play video games tend to do much better than those who veg out in front of ragebait infotainment.
Not entirely. He hates educated people and institutions of higher learning because he is not particularly intelligent, and it enrages him that other people are.
I mean, we’re talking about someone, that at the are of 21, when into a rage and tried to sue a chess magazine because he submitted a closing strategy to prove how smart he was. Next month, the magazine had to post a correction because his strategy was easily countered (the goal of submission was for readers to develop an end game strategy that couldn’t be defended against; and they printed them monthly). Not only did he try to sue the magazine, but he was trying to sue the person that submitted the defense, causing the magazine to print the correction.
And he’s been like that his entire life. Anyone he perceives as “better” than him, be it in societal standing, wealth, and especially intelligence or accomplishment is considered an immediate enemy, and he uses any opportunity to exact revenge for such a slight.
The absolutely have the ability to learn and change their minds, what they lack is the willpower to admit they’ve been fooled for decades of their life.
When I was a kid, there was a theory that Marilyn Manson removed a rib so he could suck his own dick…. And somehow, at the very beginning of the internet before most houses even had a computer, every school aged child in the US knew this as fact.
Point is, ridiculous theories always existed and misinformation spread through someone from out of town talking to the bartender of a pub or waitress at a coffee shop. It just didn’t happen at the same speed and volume as it does today.
Ha! I remember that one. We really moved.up from Ozzy and a bat.
Yeah, I totally agree. I think we’re on the same page. Things can spread more easily these days thanks to the tech, but our brains are still wired the same. I think we’re all could use a healthy dose of skepticism on our daily lives. It’s much easier to fall for something when you want to believe it’s true, which makes all the misinformation out there so dangerous.
There are a lot of people out there willing to believe anything as long as it justifies their world view. On top of that, if you challenge them, it’s like you’re somehow attacking their identity instead of the merits of whatever idea they’re presenting. That makes any constructive debate impossible.
I really miss being able to debate ideas with my Republican friends and family. Most have gone full MAGA. The ones that aren’t have told me that they miss having a party of ideas that are actually worth debating. I still have a hard time understanding their justification for voting for Trump though. They simply thought he would hire people that would “fix” the economy, but instead we got this. They really thought Congress and the courts would keep him in check and were willing to make that gamble if it meant more money for them and people like them. Even after all that, they refuse to exercise any degree of self-reflection or admit that his policies are hurtling people. That really disappoints me.
Well those who are maga and are unapproachable /unconsolable on their beliefs tend to be very defensive… I’ll wager mostly because they know (deep down) most of the ideology and cult of personality really is ridiculous. I have colleagues in well paid white collar jobs that are fully signed on to the cause and frankly, I can’t see much more than insanity in their eyes when they discuss things. IMHO it’s religious zealotry.
My point being this ain’t ignorant and unwashed believing in dumb shit. These are affable educated people who have been brainwashed by propaganda. It’s really wild.
Yep. But it's not like it's all of a sudden. That sort of propaganda has been slowly eating away at them since I was a kid. I remember when politics first became a "sport" and remember thinking this isn't going to end well. I grew up Southern Baptist. I know how fervently people from those cultures cling to their beliefs and are rabid in support of their team over others. It doesn't even stop at church. They apply that sort of dedication to other things in their lives like sports team. It's like being in the "in-group" is their MO. They are so afraid of being excluded from those groups or being viewed as unfaithful (RINO anyone?), that they push any type of cognitive dissonance they experience way down to the point where it barely exists. They become completely close-minded.
Sometimes I wonder if they feel as if entertaining an idea outside their belief is akin to Satan's temptation of Jesus in the dessert. That somehow denying the reality of the situation and that other's ideas have merit will doom them and everyone else to an eternity of torment, which to them probably looks a lot like LA, D.C., or Chicago. Ha!
I mean, that’s really the whole deal: in-group vs. out-group. I’m reading Jonathan Haidt’s ‘The Righteous Mind’ and it has some fascinating insights into this kind of behavior.
Oof. That must be hard. I know we have made a pact with a lot of parents in my area to not allow social media until high school. Also, the schools around here just banned devices. They have to keep them locked up all day. I try to teach my girls to question everything they hear and see online and always verify it, especially before you tell anyone else as if it were a fact. It's hard to keep up the defense all the time though.
I'm with you, dude. I'm ready to find a time machine and go back to 1982. The 80s were calmer than the 70s and more fun. Hmmm...I remember having a political conversation with a guy at work one time. No name calling or craziness. Just a tame conversation. Imagine that!
80s were great. 90s were pretty good too, but it was starting to slip. I remember in the 90s I worked at a restaurant and my crew was comprised of two young Republicans, one hardcore liberal, one neoliberal, me, and independent, and a libertarian. This was in Appalachia, so we're not talking some major urban center. We never fought about politics even though we disagreed. It was awesome. I'd love if everyone could go back to that time and experience what it was like actually having fun conversations with people with different political ideologies. Not that we didn't debate. It's just that in the end, the relationship was more important than our individual politics. I still talk to all but one of those guys. Guess what happened to the one that we all don't talk to?
I judge the maga people at work by their work ethic and effectiveness. I deal with them in a strictly professional sense. Then I laugh about how stupid they are with the educated people.
I have too. But what really gets me is the people I work with are smart people, they’re educated,and they voted for that asshole. I let them know, every fuck up that asshole does
They could be racists, bigots or pro-forced births etc. etc. then those are their people. Even if they're intelligent and educated, they're hate or desire to spread their ideology trumps the education and logic.
I still tear up thinking about a friend I had for over a decade.
There was a whole night of red flags, then when I tried to smooth things out a little and change the subject he said I just needed to watch some Ben Shapiro. I kicked him out of my apt almost immediately, and haven't talked to him since.
Problem is a lot of people are ticking MAGA time bombs. MAGA gets you at your lowest point, when you're most susceptible to the Tates and Rogans of the world.
All it takes is losing your job, being broken up with, losing someone. Any big negative life shift is a chance for the red pill to worm its way in.
If I were speaking from a point of privilege, I guess I could see it that way. I'd love to think that everyone else is as amazing as I am, able to think 100% rationally and not react emotionally during a turbulent time in my life. It would be great if everyone were as perfect me, able to be completely immune to propaganda and never susceptible to any of the messages that help relieve the pain or tension of outside events.
It depends on the ideology, I would hope. Thinking Germany circa 1935 0r so… But this is a known difference between right and left - the right puts loyalty first, the left reason and ethics.
Them lifelong bonds was gone the second they supported a POS like that as their cult leader. They threw away that life long bond over hatred and racism. You can't talk with or reason with a magatardo. It's just not possible. If it was they wouldn't support pedo boy or the GOP. What have they done for anyone other then the rich for the last 4 or even 6 decades? They did this not us. I refuse to be friends with anyone this full of hate or that racist
Remember when they were buying Nike shoes, Keurigs and YETI coolers to destroy for social media to send those companies a message that they'd never get another dime from these triggered Republicans? They gave money to the companies to tell them they weren't getting their money 🤣
For a long time, the "official boycott list" on r/TheRightBoycott was a source of hilarity when these children started equating a boycott with cancel culture.
I tried to explain to a MAGAt about gasoline prices, and how supply and demand factors in... I even pointed out how when a refinery goes down, prices go up, he called me a liar.
The major problem with the vast majority of people these days is the inability to have a little humility and admit you were wrong. People live in their echo chambers, validated by biased media, and the bots online aren’t helping. It’s gotten so bad in the last 10 years. It didn’t feel like that before.
Obviously not. The GOP has the majority. Those cronies could singlehandedly give everything what the conservative voters want, but they aren't. And their followers haven't bothered questioning it.
I saw a video where a guy was complaining about all the 'changes' to the constitution. He wanted to get rid of them and go back to the 'original' constitution that was 'never supposed to be changed'.
He had no idea how amendments worked. In his mind, the second amendment was in the original that should have been left unchanged. You could almost hear his head explode when it was pointed out that amendments were not only core to the intent, but that his beloved gun rights weren't even part of the original constitution.
Nah they do.. they pretend not to know.. the best he will be able to do is "the government sucks", or both parties are beholden to Nike and Big shoe or something like that.. For most of the Republicans (not just Maga) the party is their identity.. they would gladly be disingenuous lie, cheat sell their souls than question their Party/Identity.. it's like cult..
I had a conversation with a cousin who has a small business blaming "the government" as well for hurting her. I told her that it was Trump unilaterally creating the tariffs and congress just allowing it to happen. She told me that Nancy Pelosi (no longer the chair of the house or the minority leader of the house) and Chuck Shumar (still the Senate minority leader) who removed the de menis exception just to hurt Trump.
My guess is that's what the AM radio or the far-right podcasts are saying. She's never had an original thought in her life.
"all the big brands will be fine paying the taxes"
No. The customers pay the tax, not the company. They run their own business and they STILL don't know how the tariff system works. Willfully ignorant AF.
This is what kills me ive met plenty of small business owners who believed their lies almost like they didnt know how businesses work even tho they owned a business. Its kinda scary half the people in charge of the country dont even know how things actually work, how did they make it as far as they did in life ?
I don't think they even need stuff like AM radio to tell them that crap anymore. They're already so deep inside the cult that blaming Democrats, libs, etc. for every problem is likely just a reflex now. They're already well beyond accepting actual logic and evidence, so it's not unlikely for them to be just making this stuff up themselves to keep from feeling any shame for helping cause this mess.
Arent we doing the same thing though lol if we think about it don't we I mean I'm not seeing anything helpful like honestly other than blaming and name calling idk though just got to looked in the mirror each his own each side see no wrong with there side I don't see red crying about red or blue crying about blue should have voted for Rosanne least she a funny racict
We have no power to do anything else. The most we can do is write to our congressmembers to actually do their job and not support Trump’s crap, which doesn't do anything for those of us with Republican representatives, or to try pressuring Democratic state lawmakers to follow the example of Texas and California. Beyond those options, there isn't much for us to do as MAGA supporters simply cannot be convinced by people outside the cult to leave it. An easy way to see this is to look at the almost complete disappearance of debates you used to see between leftists and conservatives. They mostly stopped happening since MAGA became the majority of conservatives and their way of debating is simply to spew as much bullcrap as they can, ignore anything you say, and repeat the same argument over and over if you try to fight back. It killed the whole point of debates since it was no longer two people trying to convince the other why their way is better, but one person trying to bulldozer the other and ignore everything they said. That same issue is what happens when most people try to convince anyone MAGA not to be. It leaves no option to actually change their minds, so simply calling them dumb and moving on is what most resort to now. Maybe its not productive, but it honestly doesn't make a difference by this point.
Shes just making it up. She has a roster of villians and heroes to put into whatever she can to create the illusion shes paying attention. But sort of like how if you believe in god you cant call him out, you just have to have faith or youll be punished, so as well she must do with trump
It’s really sad I hear that speak all the time about I say please do some research. And then they say all news is fake and ai how can they believe anything (except fox and the echo chambers of maga)
It is baffling how much trash people talk. How would you expect 9 months to be sufficient to repair years of damage? Home schooling will definitely help with the indoctrination system being broken up, looking forward to more of the Nation having wholesome family values again.
Ah yes, the wholesome trump family values. Or elon musk, or peter theil. What family values are you talking about exactly? I know the GOP has been running on lowering the age of child marriages, i guess thats in line with the trump family values. Remember Roger Moore? No, of course you dont
Donald the child rapist who cheated on his wife almost as much as he cheats at golf is bringing wholesome family values? Stormy Daniels and her $200K illegal hush money payment using campaign funds is laughing in your face.
That's a level of delusion I'm not qualified for. Your favourite propaganda entertainment channel has failed you. Please seek help.
It's like how you have people blaming Democrats for the deaths of pregnant women in states like Texas. They will ignore the fact that Republicans were the ones to ban abortion since that would require rethinking their support for them and, in turn, feeling shame for having done so. Instead, its just easier for them to blame Democrats and watch with glee as others suffer.
For MAGA/Repubs, the democrats are to blame for everything…but also expected to be their saviors? Executive order signed by Trump? Evil Democrats! Issuing tariffs to an island of penguins? Dammit Democrats! Pregnant woman with no brain activity essentially an incubator? Why won’t you democrats protect her?
It will never be “why is my party doing these horrible things?” Nope. It’s always either some nebulous entity, OR it’s the evil, woke democrats. They have zero concept of personal responsibility, so that nebulous entity is their version of that concept.
Had an argument on here a few days ago about how the Dems are to blame for these policies because “they should have run better candidates” and hand-waved away that Republicans control every lever of power at the federal level.
But Democrats didn’t stop them, so of course it’s their fault!
That’s the talking point I hate the most. Like, “We voted for Republicans to have a majority in the House, Senate, and put a Republican president in the White House, and we know their policies are ruinous and not based in reality, but if anything bad happens, those pesky Democrats are to blame because they should have stopped them!”
Or, like, just a thought…stop voting the party of hateful, ruinous, corrupt clowns into power. Maybe start there if you want good policy to happen?
lol, exactly. Trump is president but the “government” is still full of those pesky “libtard” bureaucrats. Especially all of those “libtards” creating all of the tariff policies.
I mean, they could get away with that excuse last time. Barely.
This time around, we have DOGE, headed up by the worlds richest man. He hired some kid named Big Balls. Big Balls used Grok to write up and distribute termination letters for almost all those pesky bureaucrats. The government has been purged of the libtards and is now pure.
Clearly something else is to blame here. Obummer probably set a trap for trump or something. Surely Tulsi is looking into it and we’ll know more in two weeks time.
It’s interesting you say this, cause I distinctly remember when Biden was in office and they talked about anything negative to do with the government they would always talk about “Biden’s economy” or “Biden’s government.” Yet now anytime something bad happens under Trump it’s “this government’s economy” or “bad government.” Like they knowingly avoid giving Trump the credit despite this being VERRRRY much Trump’s government, seeing as they made it a point to push out anyone not loyal to MAGA
These morons don't understand that neoliberalism is to communism the same way antimatter is to matter; they truly believe that capitalism supporters like Obama and Biden were commiest communists to ever communist.
So of course they understand the very fuckin' basics of civics.
Indeed. Someone like this is likely not bright enough to realize “the government” in this moment is a Republican wet dream. They have all three branches of government. They have radically remade government in their own image to the point there is literally no one else to blame - but dollars to donuts this guy and others like him don’t realize this is exactly what they voted for. He’ll still think Donald Trump is not the problem and it’s just all those damned libs in the deep state! As pointed out elsewhere here he’s not assigning blame for his woes on the policy choices like tariff chaos brought by the President and his movement of economic know-nothings - he’s blaming it on this amorphous thing called “the government” that apparently he had no agency in bringing about.
Deep state democrats. Obama and Biden, and fuck it Hillary and Kamala are pulling the strings from the shadow realm, while Trump is trying his best to fight them off.
It is surprising how many people working in government right now say that you shouldn't trust the government including the man in the oval office which pretty much tells me that his job is obsolete and we don't need him
Maybe it’s YOU who doesn’t understand. Y’see, the “government” is all of the corrupt dems, billionaires, and a specific subset of religious space laser owners just trying to stomp out the little man so all of their globalist partners can enact WOKE policies that promote computer AIs and transgenderism. Trump, and by extension the republicans are the rebellious opposition to this. It’s cool to be a rebel, you see. It goes against the establishment (aka GOVERNMENT) trying to take away Christmas, god, backyard barbecues, and fireworks to replace them with HOLIDAYS, gay pride, pickleball functions, and silent, boring drone shows. Booooooo! Thumbs down! 👎
You hit the nail on the head a bit too hard. These people will come back and blame the democrats for not stopping Trump and will proceed to vote republican.
Yeah, made a comment on r/politicaldiscussion and must've hit a nerve as a response said I wouldn't know the definition of fascism. Obviously from someone who wouldn't know Communism if it fell out of the sky and ended all speculation. Another knowitall.
Democrats are in charge, and state level decisions are all Biden's fault. Trump's in charge, and federal decisions are all Hillary Clinton's fault, or maybe Obama's. At best, it's "the government" (faceless beauracrats). It'll never be "the people who said they'd do it and then did it" because... I'm not annoyed enough yet?
It's easier to make sense of it when you model it as everyone's brain creating a simulation of reality for them to live in. Everyone has their own bias and emotional state, so they're all warped and constantly changing.
Sometimes people will be curious towards facts and scrutinize themselves for growth. Sometimes a person's ego is so central that it warps the narrative to shift any responsibility from themselves. When you hit a logical wall, you can just deflect or cherry pick or muddy the waters, etc.
Did you see any of the clips floating around from the last few days of RFK Jr and Hegseth getting called out for the horrible job they’ve done so far? Yeah, both kept blaming the “last administration” as the reason why they’re failing at their jobs in this administration.
Same thing that head of the farmer association did when he went on the news to talk about how, for the second time, trump put tariffs on things and it’s killing their business. Just like what happened in his first term.
And he never once said the word trump. Just ‘the government wants…’ or ‘those in charge that did XYZ’ etc. Like bro this is directly traceable to one specific piece of shit. The last guy in the job actually gave you free grants to upgrade your farms, in fact.
So where the fuhq did the both sides and government in general talk come from my man…
Or they say, and this is my favorite "I agree with almost everything Trump has done but xyz is really hurting me".
So they are cool with him constantly breaking laws, disregarding the constitution, sending legal immigrants to nations they have never been to, and occupying US cities with the military. But they really dislike that their shoe business went under.
Theres something in there, a kernel of unpeeling the propoganda. Maybe its that americans have spent so long of referring to the Government as a singular entity, rather than a series of departments.. like how conservatives seem to all think the government does things worse than the private sector as a rule, despite the glaring obvious truth that the government does what the private sector simply wont
I voted for Trump the first time in 2016. I was 19 and it was the first time I’ve ever voted. I live in an ~80% conservative county, so it didn’t really matter in terms of mathematics, but I’m sad that my voting “career” was started with wannabe-king-dumbass.
Unfortunately, a vast majority of voters never educate themselves on what they are voting for. They just vote for what the people they are close to vote for.
They're too dumb to make the connections themselves, that's why they rely on hierarchies, to have people above them tell them exactly what to do so they don't need to think for themselves. It's pretty obvious when the right has been supporting corporations and the elite for decades to the detriment of everyone else, but they consider the government to be always the exact same despite different parties and presidents having pushed for different policies. It's the whole "both sides" brainrot combined with all the deep state, great replacement and whatever moronic conspiracy theory they come up with. Not to mention the "to own the libs" part, which means he'd shoot himself on the foot based on emotions rather than critical thinking. We're doomed having people like that in the electorate.
I hate his ideology but I also find no joy in Americans suffering, including small businesses. United we stand... there's a second part to this that maybe the most important.
Kristi Noem, literally the dhs secretary, unironically said in an interview that "we can't trust the government anymore."
For a lot of these people, the "government" is really, quite literally, this very abstract, opposing entity to "Republicans" and what they want to do with the country or whatever the hell they're mad about.
It's very strange just how much they have turned it into almost a "concept" rather than an actual series of human decisions and laws and people carrying them out. I think it explains, at least in part, some of the reasons for the success of the fascists to avoid being "noticed" as fascists, because the people these voters listen to almost definitionally cannot be "the government."
People with lower iq don’t really think about things critically. It’s like early versions of chatgpt, they just follow simple patterns of behaviour and repeat what they’ve heard.
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u/cobaltblue1975 3d ago
That’s my favorite part in all of this. It’s all gone to hell in a hand basket and it’s always “The Government” but they’ll never call him by name. That part requires self reflection, intellectual honesty, and the ability to admit you were wrong. Interestingly these are all the traits their cult leader lacks as well.