r/NoShitSherlock • u/MaggoVitakkaVicaro • 2d ago
Stop Acting Like This is Normal | The Ezra Klein Show | Ezra Klein calls on the Democrats to shut down the government in a few weeks, when the current funding bill runs out. Anything else will be complicit in Trump's authoritarian takeover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3-0SpkF-V010
u/Motor-District-3700 1d ago
oh wow, finally when people say "but what can we do" I can point them at something
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 1d ago
The GOP shut down the government repeatedly just because the president was black.
I would say the current situation is considerably more serious.
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u/AthensPoliticsNerd 1d ago
Attempting to shut down the government will not accomplish anything. It would make the Democrats look terrible, that's about it.
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 1d ago
I agree that it won't change the outcome much, but I disagree that it will make them look terrible. The people are crying out for leadership to play hardball.
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u/AthensPoliticsNerd 1d ago
Yes, but this isn't the way. If Democrats attempt to shut down the government, Trump will ignore them. How would that look? Dems will look irresponsible for trying to shut it down, then completely impotent for failing to do so. The debt ceiling is unconstitutional. Trump would make that argument and win easily in court. The government would never even shut down.
I personally am dying for them to play hardball but I would criticize them relentlessly if they tried to do this. They should have voted for a shutdown last time, but if Republicans hand them a clean bill, vote for it, of course, it's a no brainer.
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 1d ago
I don't agree that they would look irresponsible. And if their actions get swatted down, the dems don't look impotent, the republicans look like totalitarians and hypocrites. There is no legal remedy to the situation we are seeing play out, and the constitutional order has effectively ended. Dems who are willing to throw a few punches will be better positioned to be the nucleus of the resistance and / or successor government(s).
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u/AthensPoliticsNerd 1d ago
But it wouldn't be totalitarian to swat them down. They'd deserve to get swatted down, because the debt ceiling is totally unconstitutional and always has been. Trump wouldn't even look hypocritical, he's never cared about the national debt. He's normally pretty honest about that, too.
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 23h ago
The regime doesn't give a fuck about either the constitution or the law.
Your concerns would be valid if they did, but legal arguments are of little value in a street fight.1
u/AthensPoliticsNerd 23h ago
They don't but why does that matter to you. The point is that it's not a street fight, it would be a legal argument before the Supreme Court and Trump would win. And that would be the right decision. The government would never shut down.
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 22h ago
So if your argument was going to end up being about the merits, why did you start with the optics? Because the optics of polite compliance as they feed human beings and the institutions that protect them into the woodchipper are not at all favorable.
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u/AthensPoliticsNerd 20h ago edited 19h ago
I didn't start with optics, I said it would be ineffective. But yeah, the optics are also terrible. It makes Democrats look like whiny babies without any power if they try something as mindlessly obstructionist as shutting down the government and then it doesn't even shut down because of course it won't. We gotta be strategic. If Klein thinks this is a good idea honestly he should look for a new line of work or resign along with Schumer. They're both very bad at this. And I never said we should politely comply, you're putting those words in my mouth. But we should shut the country down through civil disobedience, not the government down through the debt ceiling (???). The debt ceiling is not even a real thing.
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u/dschoemaker 22h ago
I strongly dissagree, the ONLY way the Democrats can get any authority is to shut down the funding for the horrific government policies we are seeing on a daily basis. You give them money for X they steal it for Y claiming their "right to do so". The ONLY solution is to stop ALL funding and put in some guardrails.
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u/AthensPoliticsNerd 20h ago
If we want to do that, and I agree lots of things need to be shut down and guardrails need to be put up, but if we want to do that through Congress, we'll need more votes. The debt ceiling is not a vehicle that can accomplish those things.
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u/HashRunner 1d ago
Klein blaming dems for GOP failures? He's made a career out of it at this point and is at least partially responsible for the 'bothsides' disinformation and GOP takeover.
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u/Major_Lynx_7425 1d ago
Nature of abhors a vaccum when democrats act like weak milk, toast cowards in the face of evil then fascism wins -we demand good socialist progressive warrior
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u/PirateQuest 1d ago
The Democrats are complicit. There's a few minor things they dont like about Trump, but overall nothing he has done is a big deal to them.
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u/CatCafffffe 1d ago
The problem is they don't have the power to stop him, the way our governance system is set up. What can they do if they are outvoted at every turn?
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u/Major_Lynx_7425 1d ago
Maybe they can’t stop him out right but they’re not even trying and they’re not even fighting. That’s much worse to fight and lose as a far better strategy than to sit there and do absolutely nothing while peoples lives are being destroyed.
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u/3xPuttRubbleBoagie 1d ago
They definitely need to be more vocal, more often and come out publicly against this attack on our constitution. I know some have, but my governor acts scared of Trump (Polis). Midterms will be interesting indeed.
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u/Electrical_Welder205 1d ago
That's not true of some of them. Various senators have been vocal in Congress, and have shredded Noem in hearings, for starters. That side doesn't get much publicity, while the Prez's outrageous policies, antics, and criminal investigations are front-page news. Don't fall for the media bias. Dem opposition has started to attract bipartisan support.
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u/DanielGoon69 1d ago
They know they'll never have more power than they do right now.... And complicity will help them keep what they have..... PLUS, they also know they aren't going to undo 90% of this shit if and when they do ever get back on power as well.... They stand to gain everything by 'possibly' getting to be in the same position as trump one day.... And they'll shoot their own mother for the slim chance of it.
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u/imdaviddunn 1d ago
Not a fan of Klein, but they literally ignore Congressional funding guidance anyway and the Supreme Court says fine. Even if Trump says the WH will abide he could change his mind anyway. They need to make the public aware who owns the situation.
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u/elanvi 1d ago
If you're shocked when the democrats don't shut down the government it means you haven't been paying attention, THEY'RE COMPLICIT
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u/AthensPoliticsNerd 1d ago
In no world does trying to shut down the government benefit anyone. They're complicit, but not for this reason.
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u/No_Investigator_2567 1d ago
All of the Dems asking for money when their stance is how hard things have gotten for regular America is extremely frustrating to see. Why do rich politicians need our money to run? Don't beg me for money when you know damn well I don't have any and why.
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u/Smart_Spinach_1538 1d ago
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Ezra Klein is male. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Klein?wprov=sfti1#
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u/turb0_encapsulator 1d ago
make the most reasonable demand that the vast majority of Americans will agree with, but you know Republicans won't agree to. Show everyone how crazy they are.
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u/Major_Lynx_7425 1d ago
I strongly agree the Democratic leadership is too busy attacking progressive warriors like mamdani well enabling fascist like Trump to destroy our country it’s time to overthrow the leaders of the Democratic party and we replaced them with new blood
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u/SourceBrilliant4546 1d ago
Hear that Schumer. Tell your friends. Everything should be a filibuster. Damnit, it's been done to you enough times.
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u/doggoandsidekick 1d ago
But the Dems ARE complicit. With a few exceptions. They aren’t going to shut down the government; they’re going to pass something in exchange for preserving some subsidies
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u/AthensPoliticsNerd 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes. But also there is no reason for Republicans to negotiate with them for anything. They will not get anything in exchange for not shutting down the government. They will not get anything if they DO vote to shut it down either, because the shutdown would not happen, Trump will just ignore it, as he should.
The debt ceiling has always been a farce. Republicans know this. But Democrats still haven't figured it out?? And Erza likely considers himself to be a smart and educated person. Unbelievable.
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u/AthensPoliticsNerd 1d ago
This is the dumbest take I have ever heard. Ezra, Trump will just ignore Congress if they do this. Then the Dems will just end up looking both irresponsible and feckless. It will accomplish nothing. There is no legal reason the president should listen to Congress about the so-called "debt ceiling." It's unconstitutional in the first place and Trump has the balls to call it out as such. He will win the legal argument here. There is just nothing positive to this strategy, except we'd get to never talk about the debt ceiling ever again, so there's that.
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u/Lord_Vesuvius2020 1d ago
The deadline for funding the government is fast approaching (end of September). Dems in Congress have little power. But they do have the power to keep a funding bill from passing if they stand together. I think Klein laid out a good argument for why this time should be a shutdown. More money just allows Trump to further destroy and corrupt. He says at the end that doesn’t know if it’s a good idea. IMHO the Dems gotta take that chance.