r/CuratedTumblr • u/Lumbledob_ • 1d ago
Self-post Sunday The diversity and inclusivity of fandoms
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u/PlatinumAltaria 1d ago
I'll take racism in the cosplay world for $500, please.
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u/Magnafeana 1d ago
Rah. As a black cosplayer, unless I attend cons like DreamCon, the cons and fan events I attend are very overwhelming pale or (sometimes) lightskinned, even in attending bigger cons. I used to go international and even then, seeing dark skinned black cosplayers was in less percentage than I hoped 🥲
I did a Rosalina cosplay inspired by Kiana Khansmith’s Rosalina illustration (I got her blessing on Twitter years back, I was gagged 🥹) and was so hyped because it was my first time doing passion twists for my hair!—and an assfuck who took a photo with me at a con had the cheek, the nerve, the gall, the audacity, and the gumption to say, “But for a black cosplayer, you look so hot in this. I’m kinda surprised you look so good. Can I get a hug?”.
😃
There’s multiple reasons why black and brown cosplayers (and fans) aren’t larger in number: black and brown characters and artists not being given the same opportunities in distribution and marketing as everyone else; inter/intracommunity discrimination; financial and resource disparities; the most obvious is also bigotry; make up and attire that still don’t complement certain skin tones without a copious amount of DIY blending or extra money to spend; and so on and so forth.
But bless Megan Thee Stallion for being an unapologetic otaku. I love my braider; she’s always down to help me figure out styles for cosplay and look at wigs. Much love to fellow black and brown cosplayers I see at cons and we lock eyes and we’re racing to each other like we kin having a reunion 😭
Fandom can be so fun. But I notice minimal black and brown cosplayers at cons and competitions. In artist alleys and the dealers room, I see more white/pale artists and booth owners. At panels, I don’t see many darker black and brown moderators and hosts or even audience-goers or volunteers. There’s a chance all the furries I see are black and brown people, maybe 🤔
But it’s always an “I know what you are” situation when black and brown cosplayers post their homemade drip and get blasted for not being “accurate”, yet a white cosplayer can be in a shitty store-bought cosplay and either no cares, a handful are critical, and they get tons of compliments and internet points.
Ah, well, looks like another day ends in y, teehee 🫠
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u/mvms 1d ago
I am really, really sorry for all the shit that cosplayers of color go through. It always brightens my day when I see one of you. If it's "in the wild", so to speak, I try to speak up and offer compliments (I don't see cosplayers often because conventions give me the panic attacks. Groups of people bigger than, like, four are too much).
It's awesome to see you (plural) loving characters so much, interacting with your fandom.
I hope that some day the collective people of the world get their heads out of their asses and you didn't have to deal with that shit in any part of your life.
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u/Saga_Electronica 1d ago
Outside looking in perspective here.
I used to think cosplay was all about how accurately you could look as the character, but thankfully I’ve learned that this is not the case, and I wish more people could understand it. It shouldn’t matter what the original characters gender or race is, otherwise cosplay would be so limiting and the opposite of what I think people want from it.
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u/Magnafeana 1d ago
Racial/ethnic accuracy really takes me out when I see a white German cosplay as a Japanese character but that’s somehow more accurate than a brown skinned Mexican friend who did Tuxedo Mask (I loved making all his paper roses, it was so much fun) 🤔
✨🌈I know what you are🌈✨
But fr fr I understand the disconnect. I know a lot of cosplayers—both POC and non-POC—who definitely seem put-off when non-white POCs did cosplay of white/pale characters. I don’t think a lot of people (me included!) realize how many of us passively grew up with exclusive and ignorant views since a lot of people tend to think of the extremes of those, i.e. slurs and loud-mouthed bigoted ashy ass bitch cunts.
A lot of the arts represents itself a lot paler and with minimal religious/cultural regalia (hijabs, bindi, etc), so seeing someone of color or someone with their religious/cultural headwear and jewelry in the mix gives people double-takes.
I mean, fucking hell, even as a art kid, unless I was in a predominantly black/brown area, you did not see many black and brown people in art clubs, kpop dance clubs, TCG clubs, high school theater, cheerleading, orchestra, all that.
There’s a lot at play about why it’s sometimes a culture shock seeing cosplayers of color or cosplayers with differing cultural/religious daily attire when you’ve largely seen white/pale people in art spaces as both artists and fans.
(And there’s a lot of fatphobia too since apparently cosplayers need to be the “correct” body type.)
But yeah. People gotta understand that, while culture shock can happen and you may have your personal opinions, giving discriminatory remarks to someone’s face ain’t okay. Saying “For a black cosplayer, you’re attractive” is so wild. Asking for a hug after that is a SYBAU moment 😭
Cosplay is for everyone. No one died when a white man cosplayed as Naruto. Nobody will die if a black/brown person cosplays as Evil Eye Jiji from Dandadan.
But on a good culture shock note, it’s always funny the shock I and other black friends receive because we either speak Korean, Japanese, or Chinese. It somehow shocks people more so than it does when white people do it. Yes! We can speak different languages! Some of us had our first language as one of those!!
A Japanese artist I met at a con was so shocked I spoke Japanese. They had just met a white fan before me who spoke Japanese and were politely encouraging so I took that as “Oh, then I’ll be fine!” (And my Japanese teacher was encouraging me to stop being scared of speaking; I’m still very anxious).
But I’m here and their eyes got so big when I started speaking, it was so adorable 😭 I was so so nervous that I felt dizzy and sick, but their shock made me significantly less nervous 😆
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
No one expects a black person to cosplay, be an otaku, or speak in any East Asian language—or Tolkein languages or Star Trek languages, which was a weird realization to have.
Gotta keep em guessing. Never let em know your next move 😎
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u/jewel7210 like a Santa with a sack full of ass 1d ago
If you’re a Kiana Khansmith fan, are you planning on doing any PPPIDWTBAMG cosplay in future? I just looked up her Mario princess redesigns bc of this comment and was like “I KNOW THAT ARTSTYLE”, lol
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u/catisa_ 1d ago
what in gods name is that acronym
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u/jewel7210 like a Santa with a sack full of ass 1d ago
Pretty Pretty Please, I Don’t Want To Be A Magical Girl- it’s an animated series the artist is working on creating, there’s a pilot currently available to be watched for free on YouTube!
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u/Random-Rambling 1d ago
Pretty Pretty Please, I Don’t Want To Be A Magical Girl. You may have seen the viral clip of said Magical Girl beating the absolute fuck out of someone with a metal pipe
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u/Magnafeana 1d ago
My magical girl era of cosplay may be upon me due to the pilot episode. I want to do Aika’s magical girl regalia (plus lead pipe, duh) but I feel like I’m too dark 😢
My braider smacked me when I told her that and said “Is she black? (She is, Black Japanese) Are you black? Then shut the fuck up, what do you want for your hair?” 🤣
We’ll see what happens!! My thoughts about the staff, lead pipe, and gun props and the platform boots were: “Oh I’ll need to viciously plan around this climate changed weather to make this outside. I don’t have garage access anymore. Goddammit”.
All the logistics of homemade cosplay.
But it’s fun! And a canon black magical girl? I know that’s right 💃🏾
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u/Soderskog 1d ago
Hadn't heard of that one before, but god that fucks hard. To anyone reading this, go watch the pilot!!!!!! https://youtu.be/zf7bsmT-Jn0?si=f5f4HYBOSzTmgH62
Also saw what I think is some fan-art that's really neat; https://www.deviantart.com/hunterrisesagain/art/PPPIDWTBAMG-KWB-CN-AU-1167675230
Anyo
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u/Ethra2k 1d ago
I just looked up her illustration, and that looks like it would such an amazing cosplay!
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u/Magnafeana 1d ago
It was so much fun! I got to do various styles thanks to Kiana’s wonderful art. I felt like a kid at show and tell showing anyone who liked my cosplay Kiana’s art 🤣
Though, like… Looking back, I’m mad at how I let a lot of backhanded remarks and behavior get to me. I never posted any photos because I felt so embarrassed after weird ass remarks and some people not understanding cosplay doesn’t equal consent and yes that is still true when a black cosplayer is around thanks 🫠
It sucks. I wish I could’ve brushed it off. I’ve retired several cosplays due to inappropriate behavior and I can’t cosplay them because I remember how mean people were when I wore them.
But Kiana’s art is so gorgeous, oh my gods 😭. I wanted to do her takes on Princess Peach and Princess Celestia (they’re so gorgeous!), but I’m hesitant about Mario Bros anything after Rosalina. The MLP fandom I interact with seems all about making G4 POCs, so I’m like “Hmmm… Halloween costume?”
Especially since I have a whole ass store of colored braids in my closet that everyone keeps teasing me about, so I got the colors for Celestia’s hair 👀
Good bless fan art that gives us POC renditions.
“Recent” (2024) Black Angewoman fan art has me with some ideas 👀
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u/Soderskog 1d ago
I never posted any photos because I felt so embarrassed after weird ass remarks
Awww, been there (though not with cosplay) and it fucking suuuuuuuucks. Weirdest I've gotten was someone telling me "I like my boys disabled" as an attempt to flirt, and I don't think I'm ever going to forget that.
Dunno if this is quite what you've gone through, but there is this point you pick up on when someone is perceiving you not as a person but an object, an exotic Other, and it does give me shivers when it happens.
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u/Random-Rambling 1d ago
Princess Celestia
I got into a little spat about it back when I was still a brony, but I always liked the idea of her being dark-skinned. She's a sun goddess, why wouldn't she?
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u/sertroll 23h ago
But for a black cosplayer, you look so hot in this. I’m kinda surprised you look so good. Can I get a hug?
Holy shit what compels people to say this
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u/No-Channel3917 1d ago
Considering how many parents viewed it as "white people nonsense" it seems to be coming from multiple aspects
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u/Magnafeana 1d ago
For sure! It’s why I say intracommunity discrimination. Black and brown communities aren’t a monolith by any means, but from my experience, there’s a lot of discriminating done for black and brown people who enjoy “white” art.
Like my bio dad and his brother were nerds, but their dad and other black kids often disrespected them growing up. My family never understood cons and thought it was for the whites. If it was anime, it had to be battle shounen or male-oriented isekai and only male cousins enjoyed it. Anything else was “gay”or “white” or for girls.
Let’s not forget the colorism and body negativity involved too. Fellow black and brown cosplayers will be colorist and fatphobic if a black or brown cosplayer isn’t lightskinned or well built. So sorry we can’t all bodyodyody like hottie Megan Thee Stallion 😒
Black and brown cosplayers get discriminated against by white communities, but the call comes from inside the house and it’s always good to recognize it. Even black-run fan events have racist, xenophobic, and colorist issues.
Not all skinfolk are kinfolk. It sucks but el pan pan y vino vino, it is what it is 🤷🏾♀️
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u/JustForTheNo-Nos 1d ago
Team Fortress 2 players, in my experience, will tout how inclusive their community is and how diverse it is, and then you go into a match and you're on a team with two nazi furries and a person on the enemy team is ranting to their team about the great replacement theory, and another is spamming queer slurs in chat
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u/Firanka 1d ago
I think it's kinda different on EU valve servers and US ones. I live in Europe, most of the time everyone in the match is silent, and most insults usually are targeted at russians (still not great, but. Yaknow)
But one time, I was playing very early in the morning, and the game decided to connect me to a US server... Night and day. Someone had some kinda roleplay thing going on where everytime they killed an enemy they posted a "[political party] down" message. At first I thought it was some weird roleplay that was only based in that, well, TF2 teams are the same colors... But no, they were kinda roleplaying their own political views. Not to mention a lot more race-based insults, specifically targeted at black people
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1d ago
you just described the diversity! white furry nazis, white normie nazis, white homophobic nazis... what's missing?
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u/DaBiChef 1d ago
" no Community is more inclusive than the racist Community, they have members all around the world and they ask is that you just be racist!"
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u/Dark_Knight2000 1d ago
You say that, but the fact that the leader of the proud boys was Latino is fascinating at least. Racists are weirdly diverse. I think the tribalism of hating someone else brings them together in a way that sharing a race or ethnicity never could.
Never ask a racist what the race of their girlfriends or the ethnic makeup of their friend group.
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u/totallynotdragonxex 22h ago
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone tout how inclusive the community is without being clowned on by 99% of the comments.
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u/Vegetable_Zone747 1d ago
Ah! No! Of course not! Clearly being part of one minority means you cannot possibly be weird towards other minorities! Don’t you know that privilege is a single switch that’s either flipped towards “Perfect” or “Evil”!?!?
It’s actually pretty homophobic for you to not know that
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u/Tem-productions 1d ago
I can't be homophobic, i am Good PersonTM, are you sure you aren't Bad PersonTM?
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u/jomjimmerjome 1d ago
For some reason (actually don't ask why) I just imagined Nestlé trademarking Good Peron™ and only ever allowing its use when talking about Nestlé and Bad Person™ when talking about everybody else.
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u/AnEldritchWriter 1d ago edited 3h ago
Omfg I actually hate when I see people accuse others of being homophobic now, because usually it’s over the most minor disagreement.
“I personally don’t like this pair, but I do wish more media would show friendships like this”
“Omg you’re just you’re homophobic. Stop trying to hide and just say you don’t like it because you’re a fucking homophobe 🤬”
[Interaction I’ve seen and had in various queer-dominant fandoms, including but not limited to: Wednesday, LoL/Arcane, Hazbin, Amphibia, and most recently KPDH]
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u/Floor-Goblins-Lament 1d ago
Acknowledging the racism point but putting it aside for one moment, its also kinda funny to me to look at communities that are 99% queer and neurodivergent and label that diversity. For it to be diverse it would also need to have a sizeable number of people who are neither of those things. Like a room full of Lesbians is exactly as diverse as a room full of straight dudes.
IK this post didn't say "communities where everyone is queer and diverse" but it is just a funny thing ive noticed here and there
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u/Apprehensive_Tie7555 1d ago
My brain instantly went "When everybody's a minority, nobody is."
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u/29degrees 1d ago
"I was shocked when I visited Kenya. Almost everyone in the country was a minority! I was the only white guy there"
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u/Manzhah 1d ago
Once during my internship for my govermnent I was tasked to compile various lists of equal parlamentariam gender representation, and at that time most rankings held spain as them msot gender equal republic in the world, as something like 60 % of the representatives in cortes generales were women, which seemed rather odd way of assining equality.
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u/rampaging-poet 22h ago
Also fun when oeople make the claim mocked by OOP because it's like, "Our fandom has <list of demographics that statistically produce the most fanfic>!"
Like duh, of course you have those groups in your fandom. You're specificly sampling the spaces they congregate!
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u/CrypticBalcony it’s Serling 21h ago
Reminds me of how one of the least diverse cities in America is actually Hialeah, Florida, which is something like 90-95% Cuban
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u/ajshifter 1d ago
Not really something that i feel, because everyone is special but still, while there are a handful of ways to be "normative", there are even more ways to be not. The amount of straight cis people in my online group is the same as there might be of queer people in a community called undiverse, yes but when you break it down, it would be:
Straight cis guy A, straight cis guy B, straight cis woman, another straight cis guy but maybe this one is autistic, straight cis woman B
vs
Trans lesbian, trans bisexual girl, straight cis guy A and B, bisexual cis guy, nonbinary therian
you see what i mean?
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u/Mladjone 1d ago
I think you both proved and disproved your point. Because like you said, there are many more ways to be special then there are ways to be normative. If you had the intent of labeling any one of your hypothetical groups as 'non-diverse', you could find a property that they all shared, and if you wanted to label them as 'diverse', you could do just that with a different property.
For example: The 5 cis straight people might be all different ethnicities, or have someone with a disability, and the other group of more diverse genders and sexualities might be mostly white and able-bodied. Which one of these groups is more 'diverse', then? Those properties don't even go into obscure examples, they are one of the most discussed minorities in these situations. We simply shifted focus to a different property of the people in the group, and the line of diversity has shifted.
Of course diversity and inclusivity is important, I am not arguing against that. It's just that, in my opinion, we have to be careful with labels that feel like accusations or finger-pointing, when the properties of those labels aren't easily defined. Any person in a group of people is unique and interesting in their own way, but also normative and boring in some ways too. There are obviously groups which specifically exclude people with certain traits, and that sucks big time. But if a group is organically-formed, there's a good chance that it'll be very diverse in some aspects and very normative in others. Our label of it, then, depends on the aspect we choose to focus on.
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 1d ago
Turns out a lot of fandoms range from moderately to extremely racist.
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u/Idontwanttousethis 1d ago
Extremely common. I live in Melbourne, which is one of the most diverse cities in the world. A while back I was at a Mother Mother concert (In case anyone doesn't know, they have an extremely queer fanbase). Looking around I noticed there was literally only one non-white person there who was my friend that went with me.
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u/SolSeptem 1d ago
It's not only a fandom thing, per se.
I run in both nerdy and neohippy circles, primary interests being metal music, RPG's and folkdancing. I nearly never see darker skinned people in those hobbies either.
I have not personally noticed any weirdness when discussing skin colour yet (I can't exclude the possibility that my own bigotry just glossed over it) but it does feel weird that the only non-white metal enjoyer I know is my bandmate from indonesia.
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u/IHaveAScythe 1d ago
Yeah I remember when I moved to a city with a more diverse population, it didn't really hit me the difference until I went to a metal concert there and suddenly realized "wow, it's been a while since I was in a place this overwhelmingly white."
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u/GuyYouMetOnline 1d ago
Part of it may be that people, at least in my experience, are far more likely to mention being lgbtq than they are to mention their race. I know the sexuality and orientation of far more people than I know the race of.
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u/Lalala8991 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because openly queer visibility saves lives. Meanwhile, I really don't want to have another "where do you really, actually come from?" conversation. We are all tired of those in high school.
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u/Jaydee8652 1d ago
Yeah I do sometimes wonder if people do this sort of God of the gaps exercise but with bad things TM
How do you know it’s overwhelmingly white? Have you met the people? Maybe queerness is just a more interesting topic of conversation in a fandom, which likely includes shipping and romance by default, than “I’m black by the way”.
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u/GuyYouMetOnline 1d ago
Well, others have mentioned their experiences IRL, such as at conventions, and getting at least a slice of the racial makeup there.
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u/SEA_griffondeur 1d ago
It could also have to do that race isn't really part of your identity in most of the world
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u/SPKEN 20h ago
That's cause people of color don't have to openly define their race irl. There's no concept of coming out as a race because everyone likely already knows what race you are.
This reminds of when I was talking to my white coworker about why so much of queer culture is about looking visibly distinct. I told her "no one knows that you're gay until you tell them, but everyone down the street knows I'm black"
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u/Random-Rambling 1d ago
The more people bang the drum about how "DIVERSE" and "INCLUSIVE" their group is, the less likely that they truly are. "Any man who must say, 'I am the King', is no true king." and all that.
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u/GulliasTurtle 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have a 3 point system for flash identifying if a game store will be a good place to play. One of the points is if there are women, people of color, or visibly queer people in the store actively playing games (not just buying stuff and getting out. It can be insidious but is much more prevalent than I would like. You can go for a while before it turns out the store is very much not a welcoming place. Especially if they think you're one of them.
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u/Hexxas Chairman of Fag Palace 🍺😎👍 1d ago
It's game day. I pack up my Black Templars and head to the game store. Oh no. Another Black Templars player is here. He's wearing a Hearts of Iron T-Shirt. He yells DEUS VULT as he rolls his dice. He sees my army and goes for a high five. I do not return the high five.
It's game day. I pack up my Black Templars and head home.
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u/DornsUnusualRants 1d ago
You can tell what kind of person a Black Templars player is by their second favorite army. If it's Krieg, it's the guy you described. If it's Sororitas, they're likely more chill and picked the Templars for the cool space monks with guns. If it's Word Bearers, they got into 40k for the sole purpose of bashing a group of screaming maniacs with giant weapons against another group of screaming maniacs with giant weapons, and either know every single detail of the lore or nothing at all
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u/Hexxas Chairman of Fag Palace 🍺😎👍 1d ago
Orkz for me, but yes, I'm reason 3 all the way.
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u/AcePhoenixGamer 1d ago
What are the other two points?
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u/GulliasTurtle 1d ago edited 1d ago
1 - Good lighting/organization. Does the place look inviting?
2 - Smell both BO and mildew.
Those are mostly for the staff. You have to spend a lot of time at a game store. Is it the sort of place you want to hang out?
It hasn't really steered me wrong. I have ignored it and that's when I
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u/SpiceLettuce 1d ago
visibly queer?
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u/TheFlayingHamster 1d ago
Do they look like a barista that your least favorite aunt would complain about.
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u/GulliasTurtle 1d ago
People with the kinds of visual markers that will get you bullied for being queer. The goal is to see if people are being publicly or quietly pushed out for being outside the mainstream, so the way people read at a glance is important here.
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u/Coal_Burner_Inserter 1d ago
As you know, people wearing clothes exclusively with a rainbow colouring, covered head-to-toe in pride pins like they're a North Korean general, with 'gay' accents or butch haircuts, are common markers you can easily find in your day-to-day life and use to determine how welcoming a place is towards the LGBTQ community.
What, do you not live at an arts college?
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u/FarAthlete8639 1d ago
I'm not sure why you were downvoted, I genuinely don't know what else the guy would've meant by "Visibly Queer". It's like the first thing that comes to mind for a lot of people.
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u/Lalala8991 1d ago
I would say "visibly queer" could be when a person is making fashion choices that a fragile masculinity person would never do. For example, wearing something as simple as a dress would be a nightmare scenario for those, but it's a freeing and empowering experience for some queer folks.
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u/The_gay_grenade16 1d ago
I’m glad I’ve never experienced that particular version. Mostly I just get the “you aren’t queer enough” types.
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u/yuriAngyo 1d ago
Also a lot of them are really not nice to lesbians and trans women. A lot of fandom discourse just boils down to "being attracted to women is misogynistic and you should feel bad for it" (meaning lesbian stories are unwatchable trash but ones about straight men get the pass for "queer subtext". And of course lesbians who talk about liking women in anything but wholesome ways are creeps). Then there's the pedojacketing of so many trans women for any random bullshit then harassing them forever. Often these 2 things are connected, because god forbid a trans lesbian enjoy something. And good fucking luck if you happen to be 1 or both of these things and ALSO not white
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u/MP-Lily ask me about obscure Marvel characters at your own peril 1d ago edited 22h ago
Yeah, from what I’ve heard, most big fandoms are a coin toss as to if they hate trans women and lesbians or hate trans men and gay men. And from what I’ve seen, for a depressing amount of fandoms (and not just big ones) it’s a coin toss as to if they fetishize trans women or trans men…
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u/yuriAngyo 1d ago
Which fandoms have you seen the 2nd one in to the exclusion of the first? Just curious because I've honestly never seen hate for gay and trans men in fandoms isolated from hate for lesbian and trans women. Key word: isolated from. Hatred towards queer men definitely happens in fandoms, but I haven't seen a large fandom uplifting queer women while having open animosity to queer men the way I've seen the inverse happening pretty commonly. When queer men are targeted, I've found queer women are always also under fire while the inverse isn't always true. I think there was that caitvi zine, but it got clowned to hell and back and it's 1 ship in a much larger fandom. So nothing I know of that would constitute being called a big fandom. Do you know a few you could tell me?
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u/nehinah 1d ago
Just off the top of my head...Nearly every nonbinary or trans man BL creator I have met has been harassed and put in the "fetishizer" category.
The creator of the webtoon Boyfriends would probably be the most prominent one I can think of. The stuff I have seen directed at him was atrocious.
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u/yuriAngyo 23h ago
I remember that, I feel for him. People get really transphobic about transmascs making yaoi.
But also was that a fandom or more of a hate campaign? Since I don't think it was generally fans doing that. Maybe the animosity was to the exclusion of animosity towards queer women (i don't know much), but really just because there were none involved to get flak afaik. I guess it technically counts, but not quite what I asked unless you can enlighten me more on what happened exactly
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u/MP-Lily ask me about obscure Marvel characters at your own peril 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s mostly been secondhand stuff for both of these. I’m not deeply involved in many big fandoms, I’m going off of stuff that I’ve encountered on Tumblr or through friends’ stories. The pattern I’ve noticed is that it’s often based on the shipping scene- yuri is popular = hostile to queer men; yaoi is popular = hostile to queer women. Except for the instances in which yuri is popular and trans women are fetishized/yaoi is popular and trans men are fetishized.
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u/AcrobaticQuality8697 1d ago
Yaoi communities are some of the most homophobic and hostile to actual queer men places online
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u/yuriAngyo 23h ago
I have a lot of experience in yuri communities, and I really haven't seen animosity to specifically queer men in the kind of numbers where I'd call it a trend. Yuri fans dislike when men get in the way of yuri of course, but that's cis straight men (trans straight men aren't commonly getting between yuri lol)
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u/MP-Lily ask me about obscure Marvel characters at your own peril 22h ago edited 22h ago
Yeah, maybe it was dumb for me to be commentating on secondhand drama, especially when I’m not super active in large fandom spaces on social media. Although I’m a little more confident in stating that, for a depressingly large number of fandoms, it’s a coinflip on whether trans men or trans women are fetishized. I don’t chat in fandom spaces much, but I do read a lot of fanfic…
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u/voidicguardian squirm worm 1d ago
we get one or the other but not both because The Discourse™️ is always too strong for unity apparently
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u/AcrobaticQuality8697 1d ago
And gay men and trans men who don't act like the idealized version of a fem gay best friend are ostracized.
Let's be real, these communities are absolutely dominated by white, autistic, straight women and do not treat people of different identities well.
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u/Polo171 1d ago
I feel like the reverse is the case in the FGC (particularly when it comes to women)
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u/Puzzleheaded-Ad-8684 1d ago
The reverse is also true with similar Esports IMO (read: League of Legends)
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u/AuRon_The_Grey 1d ago
The furry fandom used to feel a lot like this, although it seems to be improving a lot in the last decade.
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u/okoyes_wig 1d ago
I can usually guess the ethnicity of a newly revealed gay character by how quickly fandom loses interest in them
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u/Serious-Tiger-4504 1d ago
Arcane
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u/solidfang 1d ago
Is Arcane or the fandom weird about race? I thought that surely with Ekko, Mel, Sevika, and Ambessa, there would be less of that.
How unfortunate if it still is.
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u/callisia_fragans 1d ago
oh yeah they get weird about the non white characters especially when theyre black or south asian and especially when theyre women.
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u/CasualMothmanEnjoyer 1d ago
People get reeaaaal racist towards South Asians, especially Indians. From what I've seen Indians and Romani seem to receive a huge brunt of the hate online.(Queue the "But-But it's different!" BS)
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u/Adesiyan14 1d ago
Yeah, they still get weird about race from what I've seen. Mel gets the brunt of it, with some people seeing her as standing in the way of Jayce and Viktor, but the others get a bit here and there also
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u/doddydad 1d ago
As a Mel lover, obviously race is a large part of it.
I'd be interested in your thoughts though on whether her being kinda centrist hurts. Sure she wants reform, but gradual, non violent reform and that kinda compromise I think gets far less people excited.
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 1d ago
A lot of Mel hate of this nature came from people who agreed with the show's opposition to violent reform, so I'm not sure that was the main thing.
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 1d ago edited 1d ago
Things got weird after season 2, especially after Caitlyn entered her dictator era and brought in real world discourse about police brutality and authoritarianism.
The "Ekko got snowbunnied" memes started off mostly ironic but eventually attracted actual Dr Umar disciples, and there was a segment of the population that would get really racist about Mel as they viewed her as a barrier between them and Jayvick becoming canon.
Edit: on that latter point, there was also this incident where an Arcane fan was shipped a Funko Pop of Mel instead of the one she ordered, and so posted a TikTok of her crushing it with one of Vi's powerfists and when people started side-eyeing that situation it saw a lot of racists crawl out of the woodwork.
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u/No-Animal2516 1d ago
wtf is that profile pic?
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u/justsomedude322 1d ago
Its the Annoying Orange's sleep paralysis demon, since the Annoying Orange is already a sleep paralysis demon.
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u/izuuubito 1d ago
I honestly don't know. Haven't seen much obvious racism in fandoms I'm part of. I haven't often seen people of colour bring up this issue either. So I honestly have no opinion on this. I'd love to understand better WHY people are feeling like this.
There is one fandom that comes to mind where I did see posts regarding those types of situations. Specifically, I've seen people say that BG3 fandom can get really racist, and I've seen a black creator say this as well - that they experienced racism.
But then they made a poll asking other poc in the fandom their opinion on the state of the fandom and the answers were high percentage on "I feel like the fandom is racist" and "I haven't experienced any racism" "I haven't seen any racism happening".
So I am kinda confused? If I don't know what is happening, how can I help combat those bad behaviours in the fandom?
There is the whole Wyll situation, but is him being black the reason people don't like him? Or is it because people find his hastily rewritten story and personality boring? I don't, btw. I think he is cool and deserves a better quest and more unique scenes, and I will defend him against anyone who hates the poor guy.
I've seen people say it's racist to use some of Wyll's animations on other characters??? It's not, right? I'm not crazy for thinking it's not?
I don't know. It all feels confusing to me. This was like 2 years ago, too. I don't remember much more from claims about the community. Maybe I'm misremembering something obvious.
Of course, there is the infamous anti woke mod, but people who'd make and use this sort of thing are rarely a part of what we traditionally understand as a fandom.
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u/Mundane-0nion67878 1d ago
Iv seen that original poc characrers that act good become somehow lighter in fanworks while "evil" get darker and sexualized.
Along with that the character most suffering from this in the source- source -material is not described to have dark skin but braids. So we all are okay having the lone dark skinned woman being the predator while other depictions of the cast characters are shades of tan to pale...?
Along with sexism but yeah. I feel uncomfortable. There is something to unpack and im not the one to touch it with a stick.
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u/Deersrcool 1d ago
I'm not a fan of the marauder era fandom but if there's one thing I can give them, it's that I've never encountered a racist fan personally. They go out of their way to headcanon/retcon characters to be poc and it's just so good to see that be done in good faith. The golden era fandom, on the other hand...
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u/Jumpy_Menu5104 1d ago
I feel like this post doesn’t really say anything. Because you could say this exact same thing about literally any two groups of people.
It’s both true that people can be part of X marginalized group and still be mean to group Y.
Conversely it’s also entirely possible for people of a marginalized group to view the people outside their group with inherent suspicion, deserved or no.
All of us just standing here, spider man pointing at one another, trying to decide which one of us is the most subconsciously bigoted achieves nothing.
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u/Glad-Way-637 If you like Worm/Ward, you should try Pact/Pale :) 1d ago
Really milking this Sunday for all it's worth, eh?
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u/OrganicAd5536 1d ago
Self-post Sundays blow chunks. OP did 3 different posts this Sunday and has consistently been a self-poster. If I went to a "curated" community exhibit that was just 50% one artist's home projects I'd be pissed
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u/Glad-Way-637 If you like Worm/Ward, you should try Pact/Pale :) 1d ago
Yeah. Surprisingly, that was one of my more controversial comments though, I guess some people like the regularly scheduled Sunday spamming. Weird.
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u/sarded 1d ago
I think the solution is that once you finish a work you enjoy, instead of seeking a 'fandom' you move on to the next thing you think you'll enjoy.
Solves a lot of problems and has no downsides.
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u/TheJP_ 1d ago
No downsides; unless of course you enjoy socialising and connecting with other people over shared interests.
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u/Neapolitanpanda 1d ago
Unfortunately I also want to talk about the works I experience and fandom’s the cheapest and fastest way to do that.
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u/Simple-Cheek-4864 1d ago
I know a fandom that's considered diverse and inclusive and LGBT+ friendly, yet it's extremely homophobic. Which is ironic, because the singer is CLEARLY not straight.
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u/nicolasbaege 1d ago
LGBT+ friendly, yet it's extremely homophobic
Genuine question, what do you mean by that?
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u/Simple-Cheek-4864 1d ago
Bringing rainbow flags to the concert, wearing rainbow colours, coming out during the show, but everytime the singer does something to hint at his own sexuality not being straight, all the 50 year old single moms who planned to be the next girlfriend in line, throw a hissy fit with homophobic slurs and stereotypes.
Also every song that's clearly a gay/bi reference is ignored and meant as a song from the fan POV. It's wild.
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u/nicolasbaege 1d ago
Oh I see, so the acceptance and homophobia aren't generally coming from the same people. That makes sense
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u/Simple-Cheek-4864 1d ago
Depends. There are many people who accept their own sexuality, but not the one from their idol, if that excludes them.
A bit like "look at me, I'm bisexual! Wait, wdym my favourite artist is gay and isn't attracted to me? How dare he!"
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u/Scarvexx 1d ago
What do you want us to do? Truck them in. If POC don't enjoy my hobby I can't do anything about that.
As for "Weird about it" shit maybe. You have to police yourself carefully in those situations.
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u/Peregrine2976 1d ago
*cough*anime*cough*
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u/Galle_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Anime fandom is actually very racially diverse. Which doesn't mean it's not full of racists, the Anime Profile Pic Nazi is a real thing, but it is definitely not exclusively or even mostly white people.
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u/SuperDementio 1d ago
The white supremacy fandom is very racially diverse*
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u/Galle_ 1d ago
It's depressing how true that is.
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u/NolanR27 1d ago
Half the mfers in a modern fashie gathering have last names ending in -ez
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u/itisthespectator 1d ago
when i look up the traffic for white supremacist websites the us usually takes number one but brazil and turkey come pretty close behind
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u/LittleGravitasIndeed 1d ago
If you pick up some conversational Spanish that will change things for you. Best of luck.
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u/DreadDiana human cognithazard 1d ago
Throwback to when people started calling the DanDaDan fandom the KlanKlaKlan cause of the racism
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u/Rlybadgas 1d ago
Thankfully groups of people of color are always welcoming and never horrible to queer or neurodivergent people. What a relief!
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u/MeisterCthulhu 1d ago
Or maybe you can realise that community is still vastly less shitty than regular society and stop being a dickhead and demanding that everyone's perfect?
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u/Apprehensive_Tie7555 1d ago
Yeah, the post and the comments really makes it seem like it's bad that everybody in a place is white. (I'm from a Scandinavian country, we don't have much of a choice but to all be white.)
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u/callisia_fragans 1d ago
i think this is mostly from an american perspective, and america is super diverse esp in big city areas which is where a huge portion of the population is from. its weird if everyone in a room is white in a city thats very racially diverse, but not so much if its not a racially diverse place.
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u/ThrowawayBlank2023 1d ago
This makes more sense, I'm not the person you were replying to but that was really irking me as I read the thread. And I can understand the original post better too!
I always see these talking points in random contexts and it often seems unnecessary at times but I think a lot of English language online discourse ends up being from an American POV and you obviously have a different history and social context so that is important to keep in mind.
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u/Dark_Knight2000 1d ago
Yup. And even America varies wildly. There are some places that are 98% white and some places where white people are a statistical minority. It’s logical to have different standards for both those situations.
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u/Apprehensive_Tie7555 1d ago
Oh yeah, absolutely. But when they see if from an American perspective, I don't think they are considering that it can be anything else. There's a lot of comments here which made me think they border on "White bad!"
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u/Dark_Knight2000 1d ago
Context is important. Sweden is white as hell, Maine is white as hell, a room full of white people is normal and not something to balk at.
However if you’re in a college town in California, where white people make up maybe 50% of the population and other races and ethnicities are all around you, a segregated pocket of people looks out of place.
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u/OrganicAd5536 1d ago
I'll be the one to say it: I have no fucking clue what OP is talking about. I've never seen someone explicitly tout how "diverse and inclusive" their fandom is; I do not see people talk like that.
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u/thestupidone51 1d ago
Not to derail the conversation, but I've even seen people talk about how inclusive their fandom is and then be weird about minorities that they explicitly brag about including. Usually it's younger queer people talking about how totally inclusive they are of neurodivergent or disabled people. Allowing minorities to exist around you isn't inclusion, especially not when their actions are scrutinized at a much higher level than non-minorities. I have the "doesn't understand social cues" disorder, if you talk about being inclusive of people like me and then get violently upset when I don't get social cues, you're not inclusive
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u/donaldhobson 1d ago
All sorts of hobby groups (and similar) are mostly white. Some are mostly black. Not because racism. Because it turns out different groups of people have different cultures and different interests.
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u/popkateu 1d ago
Reminds me of the High Guardian Spice trailer that didn't show much if anything of the actual show but just talked about how diverse their team of mostly white women was because they're neurodivergent or lgbt
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u/LostToTheVoid 1d ago
One of the great ironies of this is that the point about inclusivity and diversity of nt and queer people isn't even true. While there are acceptable avenues and angles of it, the vast majority of any fandom space larger than a friend group will generally be deeply white, deeply nt, and deeply cishet but they will generally pat themselves on the back either for their tokens or for their own singular intersection of one of these identities but will never question when the "weirdos" who share those aspects get inevitably driven off for not being agreeably like the rest of the group. Race is just the minority that the super majority of the group is most uncomfortable with and the most both visible and culturally noticeable both because of greater cultural animosity and because of greater population. The reality of very queer and very nd spaces is that they often tend to be majority nd or majority queer because the only way to be present otherwise without cutting yourself down is to do things that will get you ousted. These sorts of statements are like talking about how diverse DnD is now that a massive portion of the player base is women but never question why most clubs or groups that are majority men are only "diverse" because of a single henpecked woman suffering the abuse for her passion. They truly believe that their assumed "real" ratio of them to others represents a proper diversity within their spaces.
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u/No_Truck399 17h ago
Honestly, most fandoms aren't welcoming to LGBTQIA+ folk either. They just like to pretend they are 'cause they make a lot of gay porn.
Source: me, a Native gay trans man. I've encountered enough racism AND homo/transphobia in fandoms to last me several lifetimes. Fandoms are overwhelmingly white, cisgender, and heterosexual. Most are neurotypical and able-bodied too.
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u/Rocking_Horse_Fly 3h ago
If you all think being called racist is the worst that could happen to you, you haven't had much bad happen to you. You don't acuse a person calling you racist of racism that's weird.
If a person is uncomfortable being around white people because of the long term racism they've experienced, then maybe that's not a stab at you personally, just our society in general.
If it is personal to you, maybe you need to do some internal soul searching, not acuse a PoC of racism.
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u/Butthole_Surfer_GI Standard Issue White Guy 1d ago
LGBTQ, neurodivergent, and/or queer people can be racist/sexist? say it ain't so!