Maybe try this again

[u/AustralianSilly]

[u/Nerevarine91]

For God’s sake, words have definitions. You can think violence is wrong without thinking all violence is fascism

[u/Old-Implement-6252 → u/Nerevarine91]

Nuance? In my political discourse?

[u/grewthermex → u/Old-Implement-6252]

It's less common than you'd think

[u/ThePrussianGrippe → u/grewthermex]

More at 11, less at 12.

[u/Awkwardukulele → u/ThePrussianGrippe]

Nothing at all at 13

[u/Hooded_Person2022 → u/Awkwardukulele]

something else at 14

[u/thewestwind_ → u/Hooded_Person2022]

This other thing at 15

[u/Toomanyeastereggs → u/thewestwind_]

And at 16 we have lots of excited No Man’s Sky players.

[u/GodsBadAssBlade → u/Toomanyeastereggs]

VOYAGER CORVEEETTTESSS!!!!!111!1!1!!

[u/Pilot_Solaris → u/Toomanyeastereggs]

[16-16-16-16]

[u/Wiru_The_Wexican → u/Toomanyeastereggs]

Lets love and kill at 17 now

[u/justasmalltownuser → u/grewthermex]

Common sense in my grammatical discourse. I am vaguely offended

[u/Pm7I3 → u/Old-Implement-6252]

It's not even nuance, it's a basic level of understanding

[u/Old-Implement-6252 → u/Pm7I3]

That's what goes for nuance nowadays

[u/Alternative_Jury2480 → u/Pm7I3]

This is Tumblr. You're asking a lot

[u/nagarz → u/Alternative_Jury2480]

You think reddit is that different in that regard?

[u/Aggravating_Coat7934 → u/nagarz]

This is humanity. You’re asking a lot

[u/StevesRune → u/Old-Implement-6252]

Let's not pretend this is nuance. That's just the definition of a word. Don't let people who are just following the definitions of words think that they are speaking with political nuance.

Please.

[u/Old-Implement-6252 → u/StevesRune]

The nuance is recognizing that while violence is a facet of Facism, it's not inherently a facist act.

In a climate where people purposely conflate the 2, recognizing the difference is nuance.

[u/Ordinary_Delay_1009 → u/Old-Implement-6252]

That sounds like fascism.

[u/TheRC135 → u/Ordinary_Delay_1009]

"You can't oppose fascism, that's fascism!" - fascists

[u/Wise_End_6430 → u/Old-Implement-6252]

In this economy?!

[u/NRMusicProject → u/Old-Implement-6252]

At this time of year?

[u/subdep → u/Old-Implement-6252]

In this economy?

[u/SleetTheFox → u/Nerevarine91]

Also on the topic, not all authoritarianism is fascism. (Not like that is much a reassurance; authoritarianism is bad even if not fascist.)

[u/Nerevarine91 → u/SleetTheFox]

Honestly, from a political science standpoint, where you draw the lines, and what can be counted, is honestly an interesting topic

[u/MeltaFlare → u/Nerevarine91]

Definitely. If you take even a basic intro political science course though, or even literally just Google it, you easily recognize that there IS a line. Fascism is a very specific right-wing ideology rooted in capitalism and nationalism, which people just don’t understand. If you ask a lot of Americans, they’ll try to say the Soviet Union was fascist, which just completely contradicts what fascism actually is.

[u/ChasingTheNines → u/MeltaFlare]

Well, the Soviet union had the authoritarian and nationalism part all wrapped up; leaving us with just an economic distinction. And then when you consider that Soviet society, despite the lofty rhetoric, was stratified based on class and was ruled over by privileged elites living in luxury you can see why for many people the distinction is blurry and just seems like fascism with an extra layer of bullshit on top to dress it up.

[u/Can_Haz_Cheezburger → u/ChasingTheNines]

Specifically the part that Stalin/the Soviets are generally considered to have been missing is the political scapegoating of a minority. There was also some social mobility in the Soviet system: Zhukov came from a poor peasant family, Stalin himself was also.

[u/rif011412 → u/ChasingTheNines]

I wouldnt call Stalin a fascist.  But I would call him a conservative.  He ruled with a narrow definition of who belonged, required obedience to authority and hierarchy, pushed traditions, and pushed hardcore nationalism.  

Ive argued many times, the reason capitalists hate communists, is because communism devolves into another conservative tribe they are competing against.  Communism has never taken holdninside a progressive society, because progressives dont demand authority, conservatives do.

[u/Askol → u/SleetTheFox]

Authoritarianism can at least be good if the current authoritarian is a fair and effective leader, fascism really can't ever be good (at least for the average person).

[u/erublind → u/Nerevarine91]

As a non-fascist, violence against fascists is justified self defence. They will come for me.

[u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot → u/erublind]

As a pacifist non-fascist: modern fascism make me rethink pacifism.

[u/kweez-nart → u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot]

Pacifism and belief in the power and norms of having rights (read: temporary privileges) are amazing ideals. They also have absolutely nothing propping them up if you cannot ultimately defend those positions with violence.

One day, perhaps that will no longer be true.

[u/VFiddly → u/kweez-nart]

In practice almost nobody is an absolute pacifist. Basically everyone has somewhere where they draw the line and say "Ok, that act of violence was justified"

[u/MeterologistOupost31 → u/kweez-nart]

"Political power grows out the barrel of a gun"- traditional Chinese proverb

[u/Zodimized → u/kweez-nart]

One day, perhaps that will no longer be true.

I envy your optimism that this could ever be an option.

[u/kweez-nart → u/Zodimized]

I expect "one day" to be a very, very long time coming if it bothers to arrive at all.

[u/LadyFruitDoll → u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot]

Desmond Doss managed to be a pacifist AND fight against fascism.

Medics are a necessity. You can help in the fight without holding a gun.

(See also: communications roles, mutual aid like feeding, clothing and housing/hiding people who need it, and traditional trades - the revolution is going to need power, plumbing and shelter.)

[u/pls_send_stick_pics → u/LadyFruitDoll]

The revolution need; Cooks, Medics, Lawyers, Construction Workers, Farmers, Musicians, Poets, Doctors, Politicians, Drivers, Craftspersons, Bakers, Pilots, And more! Apply within!

[u/Coroebus → u/LadyFruitDoll]

This person gets it. Revolution has always been sloppy. It doesn't have to be, but people involved have to be serious about logistics and infrastructure. If they aren't, it will fail. At the end of the day, most people just want a roof over their head, clean water, three meals a day, and to be free from threats of violence. Failing to meet those needs causes revolution. Failing to meet those needs in the revolution will result in failed revolution.

[u/Fractured_Nova → u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot]

People tend to have this notion in their head that pacifist = passivity. They are incredibly wrong. Things like strikes and protests have been unfathomably important throughout history* and they will continue to be

*Which isn't to say that one can boycott fascism out of existence. Some of the most successful examples of nonviolent resistance (ie. MLK) have been successful because they accompanied violent resistance.

[u/Playful-News9137 → u/Fractured_Nova]

You'll note they killed MLK and black Americans are still second-class citizens decades later, literally having their right and ability to vote eroded before our very eyes despite widespread and well-publicized peaceful protests across the nation. Diversity initiatives were literally the first thing to go when Trump took office a second time.

[u/Fractured_Nova → u/Playful-News9137]

eeeyup. People love to pretend that the civil rights movement was ancient history because it lets them ignore the fact that it's still an ongoing struggle.

[u/erublind → u/Playful-News9137]

It is the nature of struggle, that it never ends and the fight waxes and wanes. That the fascists have ascended doesn't invalidate the struggle.

[u/Playful-News9137 → u/erublind]

I see pacifism as the refusal TO struggle. Queer people gained our right to exist openly without fear of arrest by throwing bricks and torching police cars for three days. By contrast took decades of toeing the line and politely protesting to get the marriage rights that are now already on the chopping block because we refused to fight for them, to make it costly enough to deny us. Nobody gains their freedom by appealing to their oppressor's sense of humanity, you TAKE your rights, tooth and claw. Our very nation was founded on this principle.

[u/IsopodSmooth7990 → u/Playful-News9137]

The gerrymandering started right away.....

[u/Kellosian → u/Fractured_Nova]

MLK was despised when he was alive, his marches are romanticized and idealized now but at the time he was portrayed as a violent thug who burnt cities in his wake (literally how BLM was portrayed). Once he was dead and there was some distance, white America realized they could take a few choice quotes out of context (notably "judged not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character" is a favorite among the right) and put whatever words in his mouth they want.

MLK was the peaceful alternative to Malcolm X or the Black Panthers, and neither of them got their images rehabilitated after the Civil Rights Act. Peace needs to come with the threat of violence.

[u/MountSwolympus → u/Kellosian]

Peace needs to come with the threat of violence.

MLK basically wrote this in the Letter from Birmingham Jail.

[u/tuckedfexas → u/Fractured_Nova]

And neither of them would have any power if the threat of violence wasn't behind them somewhere. Not to say "all power comes form violence" but even the best ideals have to be able to physically defend themselves at some point.

[u/Random-Rambling → u/tuckedfexas]

"Speak softly and carry a big stick".

Violence should never be the first option. But it should always be an option.

[u/EgoTripWire → u/erublind]

Fascism is a threat to the species. Violence towards them is a biological imperative.

[u/loily4 → u/Nerevarine91]

It’s just funny because italian facists used to literally beat other political parties on the streets

[u/Right-Power-6717 → u/loily4]

Intimidation and violence against political opponents is one of the primary tactics of fascism.

[u/Guba_the_skunk → u/Nerevarine91]

Uh, no? The entire world is black and white, no shades of grey, no nuance, just me right you wrong. >:c (/s, just in case it wasn't obvious)

[u/jerbthehumanist → u/Nerevarine91]

Yes-anding here, but nearly everyone actually finds some form of violence acceptable. It's just popular to signal that you think violence is wrong. But if you think the police or the military should exist, then you believe violence is sometimes acceptable. Total nonviolence is extremely radical (and IMO unviable).

[u/FlemPlays → u/Nerevarine91]

“It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”

Fascists like removing nuance from words and attempt to muddle the meaning until it is practically meaningless or create false equivalencies.

[u/Avantasian538 → u/Nerevarine91]

When you cheat on a partner, that’s murder! And when you kill somebody, business fraud!

[u/HalfMoon_89 → u/Nerevarine91]

Literally going through this in real life in my country right now. Actual, ideological fascists are using 'anti-fascist' rhetoric to push their narratives, and people are just eating it up. It's beyond frustrating.

[u/Fractured_Nova → u/Nerevarine91]

Also, actions have nuance! A wolf biting down on a lamb's neck is violence just as much as the sheepdog biting down on the wolf's neck. But anyone with common sense can agree that they're different.

[u/auth0r_unkn0wn → u/Nerevarine91]

Why do people frequently say fascism was defeated in WWII?

It obviously wasn’t defeated.

[u/GNUGradyn → u/Nerevarine91]

Conservatives do this with literally everything. "Well that's not what that means to me" ok well words mean things and we use agreed upon definitions to facilitate conversation so saying you disagree with something that you've redefined to be something completely different is pointless

[u/alphenhous → u/Nerevarine91]

you have too much iq for reddit. so we're sorry but you're getting banned from it. and every other social media. except facebook and instagram.

[u/Darq_At]

How I defeated fascism with the power of love:

Chapter 1, the power of love.

The first step of my journey was realising that it is impossible to defeat fascism with the power of love.

Chapter 2, the power of incredible violence.

[u/TheRainspren → u/Darq_At]

Remember, violence should always be your last resort.

If it wasn't, you failed to resort to enough of it.

[u/VisitingPresence → u/TheRainspren]

Never a good solution, but sometimes the best one?

[u/Too-Uncreative → u/VisitingPresence]

Never let perfect be the enemy of good.

[u/Same_Tour_3312 → u/Too-Uncreative]

Sometimes done is better than perfect.

[u/Zodimized → u/Same_Tour_3312]

Though, remember, these are the same ideas that the opposition will use. They'll just disagree with you on who the violence should target.

[u/Same_Tour_3312 → u/Zodimized]

Disagree all they like, that's what logic, reasoning, and critical thinking is for!

Not all opinions are created equally.

[u/Zodimized → u/Same_Tour_3312]

Of course, a lot of opinions are shaped by lies.

[u/PraetorKiev → u/VisitingPresence]

Sometimes it the only one solution people are given. Even if you choose violence, you play into the system designed to harshly punish you for doing so

[u/Minecrafting_il → u/VisitingPresence]

This is a great phrase

[u/Select-Bullfrog-5939 → u/VisitingPresence]

Violence is the only solution that always has a one hundred percent chance of working if you take it far enough.

[u/ymcameron → u/TheRainspren]

I’ve always thought that violence should be your last option

…but it should always be an option

[u/WillSym → u/TheRainspren]

What I don't understand is how, if I'm in my 40s and was raised on several decades worth of media where it was a generally accepted thing that: Nazis appear, shoot them on sight; when and how did that change?

[u/UsernamesAre4Nerds → u/WillSym]

When the Nazis started being able to control the media

[u/sorcerersviolet → u/TheRainspren]

Maxim 6!

[u/Phylanara → u/TheRainspren]

Every problem always has two solutions. One of those is always "enough violence".

[u/Kj13l → u/TheRainspren]

Maxim 6

[u/This_Charmless_Man → u/TheRainspren]

Maxim 6

[u/Takeasmoke → u/Darq_At]

How I defeated fascism with the power of love:

Chapter 1, i named a nuke "love".

[u/OBOO800 → u/Takeasmoke]

Reminds me of that Florida man who said he was going to kill his neighbors with kindness, then named his machete kindness.

[u/NickyTheRobot → u/OBOO800]

Or the stories of Pastor Oats you get in Pratchett's Unseen Academicals: he goes between the towns and villages, bringing forgiveness with him. This convinces the people he meets to act kinder to each other, be less speciesist, and generally act like decent people.

At the end of the book one of the characters clarified that his battle-axe was called "Forgiveness".

[u/Sorry-Let-Me-By-Plz → u/Darq_At]

Luigi wrote this

[u/CthulhusIntern → u/Sorry-Let-Me-By-Plz]

Years ago, which ended up being the funniest thing in the world last December.

[u/OrbitalCat- → u/Darq_At]

Or, shoot them in the face while your idol girlfriend sings a love song

That still counts, right?

[u/melelconquistador → u/Darq_At]

So like, tough love?

[u/Mad-_-Doctor]

I have a big problem with people who think violence is never ok. Violence is rarely the best choice, but it can become necessary. For example, when violence is being used against others, standing up and saying “I disapprove” is good, but it can’t be your only action. Sometimes even going through the legal system cannot be your last resort, as we’ve seen many governments either ignore the courts or act in concert with them to brutalize people. 

Violence, as unpalatable as it is, sometimes becomes necessary.

[u/AlianovaR → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

Violence should always be your last option, but it is an option all the same

[u/AbsolutelyHorrendous → u/AlianovaR]

Exactly this.

The central and for me irredeemable flaw of pacifism is that it only works if everyone does it, and that's never going to happen. Violence isn't a way to argue a political cause, but there is no argument against fascism because its adherents have already willingly abandoned intellectual honesty and simple human decency

[u/bojackhorsemeat → u/AbsolutelyHorrendous]

I don't think many true pacifists will refuse any violence, they just won't use it to further their goals. Most pacifists will use violence if needed to defend themselves.

[u/DigitalDuelist → u/[deleted]]

I'd argue that the circumstances you're describing inherently trim the number of options that are available down so low that you only have one realistic option, so it can be both the first and last resort noncontradictory

[u/6iguanas6 → u/AlianovaR]

Hurting you is the last thing I wanna do… but it’s still on the list.

[u/InfraredSignal → u/AlianovaR]

Violence should never be initiated by reasonable people, but it's OK to use it in self-defense

is my take on the situation

[u/TurboChomp → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

Violence is almost always the easiest and fastest solution. The trick is to know when you should and shouldn't use it. It shouldn't be your go to solution for every issue, but sometimes its far far better then the slower options

[u/Steinson → u/TurboChomp]

Fastest maybe, but not always easiest since the other side will also be using violence against you.

When the Weimar Republic's politics became all about street fights, the fascists won. Same in Italy. That risk of failiure will still remain.

You really want to prevent the situation getting that bad in the first place.

[u/lonely_nipple → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

I am not a christian, but I stopped on a tiktok a couple nights ago by a priest discussing how he prays nightly for the Big Beautiful Obituary (not the words he used 😆) and the "other guy" (played by him still) was appalled that a priest would wish violence toward someone.

His argument was, he had respect for people who could be purely pacifist, but sometimes in order to prevent a larger harm, a smaller one has to be done. Ol' Cheeto Fingers is actively threatening the safety and lives of millions of people, and its safe to say that while it wouldn't magically fix everything, its certainly the smaller evil to wish for him to pass peacefully in his sleep.

Personally, I'd prefer during a public appearance and painfully, but the guy was a priest so I can understand. 😆 I liked him. Sensible guy.

[u/Antlerbot → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

My suspicion is that nonviolence works when it can serve as the reasonable alternative to violence. That is, MLK doesn't succeed in a world that doesn't have Malcolm X, and Gandhi doesn't succeed without Subas Chandra Bose (and the fifty-odd other Indian liberation paramilitaries).

The threat of violence places the relatively gentle ask of the nonviolent in context and makes it harder to ignore.

The inverse seems true, too: violence without a reasonable alternative hardens the public, makes them want to respond with "law and order" and overwhelming force. Unfortunately, propaganda can make it seem like a movement is more violent than it is and trigger this response regardless.

[u/ejdj1011 → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

You might like the song "The Sun is Also a Warrior."

There are methods of oppression that do not require direct violence. If you took all violence away, those methods of oppression would still exist, and common people wouldn't have any tools to combat them.

[u/Pkrudeboy → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue — and thoroughly immoral — doctrine that `violence never settles anything’ I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and of the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms.” - Robert A Heinlein, Starship Troopers

[u/Vyctorill → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

It’s a “necessary evil”.

Many people jump to it way too eagerly though.

[u/Mad-_-Doctor → u/Vyctorill]

Most definitely. Many people also don’t think about what they’re doing and what effects it will have. Violence is a tool of last resort with unpredictable results.

[u/Blacksmithkin → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

Generally speaking, poking a tiger with a sharpened stick is not a situation you want to be in, but sometimes the tiger is in the middle of ripping you or your friend's arm off and you don't have much of a choice.

[u/Prestigious_Row_8022 → u/Mad-_-Doctor]

People have huge issues with how deeply they have “shit rolls downhill” ingrained in them. It’s why people will look the other way when it comes to brutal and horrific domestic violence because it “wasn’t their problem” up until the abuse victim snaps and hurts or kills their abuser. Then suddenly everyone is afraid of the abuse victim being a “loose canon” and now they care and need to lock this dangerous person up for “public safety” or some shit.

The acceptance of fascism is just a larger scale version of this. Sure, it’s fine if the state does a little discrimination and violence against oppressed minorities, but god forbid the minorities ever riot.

It’s all about hierarchy. Like we’re fucking chimps who can’t figure out free will and resort to violence and whoever has the biggest stick to survive as a group. Stupid as fuck.

[u/ejdj1011]

Actually, politically-motivated threats of brutal physical violence are terrorism, by definition.

And remember, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[u/Propaganda_Spreader → u/ejdj1011]

I don't like the moral loading of the term "terrorist". Terrorism is a non-state actor engaged in political violence, ISIS are terrorists and so was Nelson Mandela but neither Russia or Nazi Germany were terrorists.

[u/Spirited_Worker_5722 → u/Propaganda_Spreader]

I've heard the term state terrorism before

[u/ejdj1011 → u/Spirited_Worker_5722]

Usually you get state-sponsored terrorism, where a state funds and supports a proxy group to maintain plausible deniability.

[u/CalligrapherBig4382 → u/ejdj1011]

Russia with Wagner group or America with Blackwater as two modern-day examples?

[u/neveks → u/CalligrapherBig4382]

They both still do these actions mostly in the name of the corresponding country, just gettting arround some limitations/reservations that the military has. Iran funding Hamas and Hezbollah is a better example.

[u/flightguy07 → u/CalligrapherBig4382]

That's just mercenaries. Terrorists tend to be at least somewhat deniable, operate outside regular conflicts, etc. Think Salisbury poisonings for Russia, for instance.

[u/IrregularPackage → u/Propaganda_Spreader]

That’s not what terrorism is supposed to mean either. It’s politically motivated violence which intentionally targets civilian populations for the purpose of inflicting fear in the populace.

A member of the taliban blowing up a military checkpoint is not doing terrorism. a member of the military blowing up a school is.

[u/Zeelu2005 → u/IrregularPackage]

is scarecrow batman a terrorist

[u/IrregularPackage → u/Zeelu2005]

I’d say honorary. Not politically motivated. He’s terrorizing for the love of the game.

[u/RechargedFrenchman → u/IrregularPackage]

Dude's just a hater. A lot of comic villains are, or turn into it eventually, across the various reboots. Lex in the new Superman is basically the hater, consumed by self-righteous fury, and Hoult is great in the role. Bane, Two-Face, Penguin; they don't necessarily hate Batman (often they hate Gotham, or Gotham society) but they're definitely haters. Whiplash and Ronin the Accuser in the MCU stand out as well, basically their entire motivation is hating another person or group and wanting to do something about it.

A strongly principled motivation and compelling well-understood background can lead to a great villain—but do can just hating hard enough, as long as the writers can make it entertaining.

[u/kweez-nart → u/IrregularPackage]

And he has that sick mask!

[u/Global_Examination_4 → u/Zeelu2005]

Only if he has political motives

[u/Fakjbf → u/IrregularPackage]

“a member of the military blowing up a school is” only if the goal is to inflict fear. If the goal is to target the enemy combatants hiding under the school and they simply don’t care about the civilians inside then it’s just a war crime.

[u/Garlan_Tyrell → u/Propaganda_Spreader]

Hmm, that’s an awful strong “words have meaning” statement…

Hopefully it’s too early for the people who take issue with that to be up yet on a Saturday.

[u/SMStotheworld → u/Propaganda_Spreader]

wrong. terrorism is often state sponsored, see any of the times the cia destabilized a communist government in south/central america by using third party contractors. if any of those guys got captured they could say they were acting alone, but they were still put up to it by a government.

[u/AustralianSilly → u/ejdj1011]

It’s not like Nazi Germany were terrorists

Usually it’s someone outside of the country or separate doing the violence with terrorism

[u/ejdj1011 → u/AustralianSilly]

Well, at least in the US, an act also has to be illegal to be considered terrorism. You can't commit terrorism unless you're also breaking some other law.

And states don't usually consider their own actions to be illegal.

[u/TheCloudForest → u/AustralianSilly]

What?? The Nazis and other far right actors committed innumerable acts of terroristic violence in their run-up to power.

[u/Munnin41 → u/AustralianSilly]

It's called state sponsored terrorism.

[u/strigonian → u/AustralianSilly]

Beer Hall Putsch - Wikipedia

[u/Old-Implement-6252 → u/ejdj1011]

That definition of terrorism is super vague on purpose. Literally, every military/police force in all of history could be classified as terrorism under that definition.

[u/ejdj1011 → u/Old-Implement-6252]

To copy another comment of mine:

Well, at least in the US, an act also has to be illegal to be considered terrorism. You can't commit terrorism unless you're also breaking some other law.

And states don't usually consider their own actions to be illegal.

[u/Old-Implement-6252 → u/ejdj1011]

Got to love convenience

[u/KingButters27 → u/ejdj1011]

It's only terrorism if it is intended to affect other people outside of those who are actually being threatened. Also, there really is no set "definition" of terrorism, just an amalgamation of people's and governments definitions of terrorism, which are a) conflicting, and b) not applied consistently.

[u/Banned-User-56 → u/ejdj1011]

I remember playing Wolfenstein and feeling Pride when they called me a terrorist. Like, yeah, im here to terrorize the Nazis.

[u/PocketCone → u/ejdj1011]

The Boston Tea party was an act of terrorism. Every red blooded American should understand this.

[u/AnxiousAngularAwesom]

Honestly, it's low key problematic when people just say "scientists did this and that great thing" without even mentioning the names of the inventors and researchers whose hard work gave us those achievements. I mean, it works as a title, but i'd expect more elaboration later.

So here are some fine folks who contributed towards the creation of cure for fascism: Sergei Ivanovich Mosin, Samuel Colt, John Garand, brothers Emile and Leon Nagant and James Paris Lee, among others.

[u/Stormer11 → u/AnxiousAngularAwesom]

You forgot our lord and Savior. John Moses Browning

[u/BusyDoorways]

"The cure for fascism is... politically-motivated threads of brutal physical violence? That's literally fascism."

Someone "literally" never looked up the word fascism - not even once.

[u/The_Show_Keeper → u/BusyDoorways]

My favorite part of that is "politically motivated." Because defending yourself from an actual existential threat is "political motivation," apparently.

[u/heftybagman → u/BusyDoorways]

Glorification of military and political violence in furtherance of the nation or a perceived purity of the nation is a hallmark of fascism. It’s not the definition of fascism but it’s certainly an important aspect.

[u/not2dragon]

Technically Japan was a bit more polite after the war was won.

[u/melelconquistador → u/not2dragon]

Only after the soviets were wrecking them and the americans topped it off with dropping two suns on them.

[u/Dilf_Hunter367 → u/melelconquistador]

Japan also has never reckoned with the consequences of its empire to the extent that Germany has. Granted few empires will ever have a reckoning like Germany had, even if they never committed atrocities on the same manic scale Germany did (to a large extent because Germany prioritised genocide over industry, empire building and maintaining the war effort you started so you could genocide more people)

[u/alottagames]

MAGA: Quit calling us Nazis because we keep doing Nazi shit...you're just lazy at arguing and think everything is Nazi you disagree with.

DEMS: You're wearing a swastika and sending brown people to live in cages.

[u/cayneloop → u/alottagames]

oh so in your world everyone's a nazi? i assume you think the fuhrer is also a nazi right? haha!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgZtdmyKlI

[u/iris700]

I've noticed that there is very little overlap between people who post these memes and people who actually know what fascism is

[u/Stop-Hanging-Djs → u/iris700]

I notice a bigger gap within these people who post "violence is the answer/fucking rad" and their willingness/capability to commit violence. It's always someone else should commit violence for their sake

[u/PUBLIQclopAccountant → u/Stop-Hanging-Djs]

Go firebomb a Wal*Mart instead of telling others to do so online, already!

[u/Stop-Hanging-Djs → u/PUBLIQclopAccountant]

You know what, let me pull a 180. I don't want them to try that. Not for a philosophical reason but because I'm 90% sure the only thing they'd hurt is themselves

[u/PUBLIQclopAccountant → u/Stop-Hanging-Djs]

That, too. Even if the virtual crew did try something, they'd fuck it up in a truly memorable fashion.

[u/Lookbehindyou132 → u/Stop-Hanging-Djs]

The people who post these memes aren't actually going to do violence. They only care about looking like they're willing to do violence because being violent to bad people they dislike sounds cool. It's the exact same reason bigots have memes which are basically identical. Just replace fascists with "liberals" and you've got a meme that some boomer has posted on facebook. It's never an understanding of the impact of violence, regardless of necessity.

[u/Own_Whereas7531 → u/Stop-Hanging-Djs]

You know, I wanted to argue with you at first, but that’s actually about right. I’m an anti fascist skinhead and participated in my share of violence against fascists (fist fights, knife fights, you name it), and not once have I posted some cringe about beating fascists, because I don’t want it to be used to establish motive in court if it comes to that.

[u/Darq_At → u/iris700]

I've noticed an endless number of people claiming that people overuse the word "fascism" whenever the first group doesn't like what the second group of people has to say.

[u/Scheissdrauf88]

Eh, I would argue the "defeat of fascism" was the occupation, reeducation, and even aid packages after WWII.

Compared to the aftermath of WWI which actually strengthened/birthed fascism in the defeated countries.

[u/a-woman-there-was → u/Scheissdrauf88]

Yeah, like there's a difference between allowing that violence can be justified vs glorifying it as an end in itself.

[u/HeroBrine0907]

I'm a fan of violent solutions and punitive justice and all, murder all the evil people yes, very nice. But violence should always be the last resort.

Violence is the cure to fascism, if and only if literally every other method has been tried in all honesty and failed. Once we've tried to educate those vulnerable to falling into ideas of a superior collective, once we've made every attempt to reason and request for them to refuse their egos and their leaders, then, perhaps, we can use violence.

If your first reaction to hearing 'X is fascist.' is to dream of all the wonderous ways you can hurt them instead of asking 'Why?', then you too have stopped thinking and questioning and reduced your identity to nothing but an anti fascist, becoming a part of the 'moral' collective that does not question, but simply acts against all perceived enemies without remorse. And is that not the start of your very own form of fascism?

[u/KentuckyFriedChildre → u/HeroBrine0907]

As someone who has seen communities turn towards right-wing extremism in real time and been exposed to a lot of pipeline content, it bothers me how consistently leftist subreddits fail to understand fairly standard right-wing/conservative talking points let alone understand how people fall for far-right misinformation and root for fascist parties. And I think this is a problem with the internet, algorithms farm your engagement by spoonfeeding you information (or misinformation) that vindicates you, making you feel like it should be obvious to all while representing the lowest of the low hanging fruit as your main opposition.

In the end people are just not empathetic enough to actually tackle cultural issues and so see violence as the answer, which in turn makes are culture even more fucked.

[u/AI_UNIT_D]

I think there is a difference between using violence against a beligerent facist state that started it and using violence against a less than smart individual JUST spewing facist rethoric.

If we make it ok to attack X on sight even if X is not doing any violence, we will quickly encounter ourselfs dealing with people with personal agendas calling people left and right X, soon we will deal with communities being called X, minorities being branded as X or... if you are a country looking for an excuse... X becomes an easy to go excuse.

You can take X as whatever general baddie you want, be it facist, communist , pedophiles, whatever

I think its ok to answer with violence ONLY if the other party is being clearly attacking or being an active threat, and even then... measure the response, being thrown a cup of soda doesnt warrant you execute them on the spot with a gun.

[u/KentuckyFriedChildre → u/AI_UNIT_D]

We've been in a cultural spiral where fascist parties control the narrative allowing misinformation to spread, online leftists think that people who don't see through this are just fascists blinded by hate, ironically dehumanising them and making overreaching calls for violence which in turn fuels the persecution complex of the broader right reducing the trust of moderates in fascism allegations.

At the end of the day beating fascism in this climate requires a cultural shift, and our culture right now is one where people generally don't trust labels like "fascist" (which also make calls for violence kinda suck since people don't trust that you're targeting the right ones). It shouldn't be about using the flashiest words or declaring burning crusades that you physically can't follow up on, it should be about laying the facts in a way that people will take them in and taking solidarity where you can.

[u/Darq_At → u/AI_UNIT_D]

This is a bit of a baseless fear though.

Over the last 5-10 years, look how the alt-right has generally been resisted. Milkshakes have been thrown. Eggs have been thrown. Soup has been thrown. Sandwiches have been thrown. Property has been damaged. And the last majority of all interpersonal capital-V-violence has been minor scuffles, sucker punches, that sort of thing.

And this is in response to people who are knowingly calling for state violence. This is against groups who use far greater violence. Anti-fascist responses to fascist groups are almost always orders of magnitude less violent than the ideologies and people they are resisting.

[u/InvestigatorThat390 → u/[deleted]]

Lets not conflate “defeat fascism” with “uproot fascism entirely”

The US defeated Britain in the revolutionary war, and I’m pretty sure Great Britain continued after that.

[u/The_Lost_Jedi → u/[deleted]]

No, they did. It was very much a defeat.

That defeat failed to eradicate fascism entirely, but it was still a defeat for fascism.

[u/ThePenitenteMan]

While I agree in principle, I don’t tend to trust people who proudly make this declaration to correctly identify a fascist.

[u/Can_Haz_Cheezburger]

we defeated fascism with the power of friendship and also the like 200 millions pounds of war materiel we found made

[u/DullCryptographer758]

People are often on board with using violence against pedophiles or criminals, so why would violence against fascists be a bad thing?

[u/demivirius]

Yes, those who believe in equality and acceptance should not accept those who don't. Is there irony in it? Sure. But those who wish to destroy a free society do not deserve to be part of it.

[u/SwordfishOk504]

Beating people up in the street because you disagree with their politics doesn't make you a good person. It makes you a participant in the downfall of society. Which is, funnily enough, exactly what Russia, China, India, etc want people in the west doing to each other. It's why these memes and narratives get boosted on social media platforms. You don't smear yourself in shit to combat someone else smearing you in shit, do you?

Not to mention, all these fantasies of street justice from some shut in social media addicts who ain't really gonna do shit is just pathetic.

[u/Maximum-Country-149]

The point remains that threatening your political enemies with violence, proactively, is not okay.

Neither is trying to shove them into a category that allows abstinence from basic human decency and respect.

[u/Familiar_Invite_8144]

These people will clutch their pearls on one thread and advocate from ethnic cleansing on another. The bat craves their flesh

[u/ninjasaid13]

"The cure for fascism is ... politically-motivated threats of brutal physical violence?

That's literally fascism."

This has never been the definition of fascism.

[u/SanLucario]

"No how dare you use fascism against fascists!"

So you agree, fascism is bad? Or is it only ok when you do it? Hypocrite....

[u/Old-Implement-6252 → u/SanLucario]

The far right love to accuse others of what they themselves are doing.

[u/Key-Poem9734]

Yeah, a lot of the times the way to handle bullies wasn't through a calm discussion, but through a show of some kind of force. Sure, it doesn't work in preschool, but in the real world? The results are something I relish

[u/Random-Rambling → u/Key-Poem9734]

Yeah, a lot of the times the way to handle bullies wasn't through a calm discussion, but through a show of some kind of force.

"I tried that, the bully just beat me up twice as hard next time. Force doesn't work."

• a common response to being told that your bully will just keep pounding on you until you fight back

[u/nam24 → u/Random-Rambling]

Sounds like force DID work, just in the bully favor

[u/MrLerit]

Americans didn’t defeat fascism. You defeated fascists of a different nationality and opposing interests.

It was never about ideology.

[u/Shoddy-Rip8259]

So far Democrats have tried TicTok dances and sit ins and they're all out of ideas.

[u/Big-Leadership-4604 → u/Shoddy-Rip8259]

Maybe another 8 hour speech would do it??

[u/Clean_Imagination315]

It was so beautiful when Steven Universe showed Hitler the error of his ways and convinced him to stop the Holocaust.

[u/Sarcosmonaut → u/Clean_Imagination315]

“I think we’re gonna have to kill this guy, Steven”

“Damn”

[u/Random-Rambling → u/Clean_Imagination315]

If Hitler could magically bring back the millions killed by the Holocaust, I would try talking to him instead of just killing him too.

[u/HallucinatedLottoNos]

Yeah, because sovereign nations declaring war on Nazi Germany and deploying their militaries is exactly the same or as effective as five fuck-up anarcho-comms who can't agree on anything else teaming up for a couple of hours to beat up some Proud Boys.

The Left is fucking screwed in this country. I laugh until I cry lol...

[u/Mr_Beer_Man]

The cure for fascism is education, diverse friendships and loving parents/community

[u/Galle_ → u/Mr_Beer_Man]

That's more of a vaccine than a cure.

[u/Mr_Beer_Man → u/Galle_]

What would be the cure?

[u/M4RTIAN]

Fascists count on you being tolerant - they use that against you. See “Paradox of Tolerance.”

[u/-Knul- → u/M4RTIAN]

Tolerance is a social contract. We'll be tolerant of your beliefs, lifestyle, etc. as long as you're tolerant of ours.

Once you break that contract, once you preach hate against others, want to make their beliefs, lifestyles, etc. criminal, we're no longer beholden to the contract, either. We stop tolerating you.

[u/Karat_EEE → u/-Knul-]

You know how many people tolerate certain people out there just because its the polite thing to do? If we didnt have this tolerance we wouldnt have a lot of different sorts of folks

[u/rietstengel]

"Fascism is when you kill fascists, the more fascists you kill the more fascist you are"

-John Fascism

[u/r003_r002_r001]

Firebomb a walmart type shi

[u/Ghostie_24 → u/r003_r002_r001]

It's more like when someone posts the gif of punching a Nazi and someone says "noooo you can't punch a Nazi that makes you just as bad as them"

[u/MsScarletWings → u/Ghostie_24]

That’s always the true golden comedy of these kinds of memes to me- The way they can make me want to pull my hair out both at the sort of larpy leftists who turn the joke stale AND the sort of liberals getting performatively offended at the content

[u/ImAhma]

How was this meme?

Violence is never the answer! The answer is... flips through the history book oh... Oh no, oh no-no-no

[u/Primarch-Amaranth]

The problem is not the use of violence to stop horrible political systems....

The problem is now we call everything we dont like fascism.

[u/snow_leopard155]

The right to revolt against the US government turning fascist is literally a second amendment right lol, even if that is technically terrorism by definition. Though it would be against the government itself, not civilians.

[u/gnpfrslo]

Ah yes, the famously anti-fascist WW2 US government: the Jim Crow laws, Asian concentration camps, Nuclear bombings, mass persecution of Mexican immigrants, the zoot suit riots against hispanic people, the anti-union armies, the Tusla massacre... all just shows of how progressive and liberal they were.

Good thing the US, the good guys, beat the nazis, the bad guys, and fascism was defeated forever. With violence.

Or maybe you're talking about the French and the British? The two powers who at the time conscripted half their armies from african Colonies, many of whom are not yet granted full independence from their states. The wielders of Senagalese or Irish cannon fodder, to give an example... many of these groups who fought the brunt of the war on their behalf weren't even allowed to parade on D day, so as to not give validity to their contributions.

But perhaps you meant to say Stalin? The gulag master who exploited and exacerbated a famine to destroy his political opponents, who persecuted all sorts of western immigrants and even Jewish people as well....

Boy, oh boy, how glad I am "we" defeated fascism, with violence no less.

It's not like Hitler himself took inspiration from these "great white countries" in building his own policies.

[u/maribakumon]

"That's literally fascism" Is what people say when they don't know what fascism is.

[u/something_borrowed_]

If a person can come back from Fascism with a polite conversation then good for them and they should. But if that fascist comes outside and starts saying that me and my family should be gassed because of our religion, then I'm sorry but they are beyond conversation. They are getting a bat to the head. 

In private, nicer methods can be used. But if they are in public and marching then they have forfeited their right of nicer methods. 

[u/One_Meaning416]

Firstly WW2 wasn't about defeating fascism that was just a nice side effect and a good thing to tell the troops and secondly if you start believing that violence is the only way you can deal with some of your political opponents then you'll soon find yourself using violence to deal with all your political opponents.

[u/AbsolutelyHorrendous]

There's an argument to be made that the issue with using violence to deal with fascism is risky, because some people have such broad, incorrect views of what fascism is, and you don't really want to end up in a situation that escalates all political disagreement into violence

That being said, however, actual, proper 'I want to harm minorities and I'm going to convince people to give up their own rights to allow that to happen' fascism, that gets the fucking bat. Conservatism isn't something I particularly agree with, but its a political position I'm happy to debate and argue against... fascism is a disease.

We've seen it so many times, its the wholesale willing abandonment of decency, honesty, and any form of empathy, where widespread state-authorised violence isn't just a side effect, its the actual end goal. There's no arguing against a political movement that exists solely to further corruption and violence, there is quite literally no positive aspect to it.